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Stop me if this conversation happened already but what year do you think this show takes place in? Every time I ask or search, the answer is either "it's supposed to be ambiguous," "it doesn't matter, we're just seeing it through David's crazy eyes," or "the 80s." Yet David's sister asks if she can e-mail her husband, which places it in the late 90s at a minimum. What do you folks think?
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Apr 12, 2017 02:37
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Just for the record, I'm not asking where Legion lies in the "universe" of X-Men or MCU or whatever. It's already been stated that the show is its own standalone thing, unrelated to what anyone else is doing, even if Patty Stew wants to get in on it. I just merely wanted to know what year it's supposed to take place in so I could set my expectations as to what kinds of technology are supposed to exist. The last thing a story as good as Legion needs is an accidental deus ex machina by literal machina that we didn't know existed because we were being hidden from what year it is. That said, apparently the whole thing was written for modern day 2017, while the aesthetic choices came later, so I think I'll just stick with that. Which means Gemaine's actually been iced for 50 years, not 20. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 00:42
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JawnV6 posted:I don't see how that's useful though. JawnV6 posted:Why? The in-universe characters say the exact time he's been under, there's no need for speculation or guesswork based on his habits or dress. Furthermore, given that he's completely forgotten his marriage, it might be fair to say that he's regressed back to some happier time in his life. How unreasonable would it be for an average Dad isolated in the Astral plane to relive his college years when the music made sense and the bra might never come back?
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Apr 13, 2017 23:15
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glad she is dead posted:I don't really give a poo poo about the future Sydney poo poo and the plot of the show in general other than as a vehicle for cool cinematography, music and fun performances, so I thought this was maybe the best episode of Legion yet. The Kubrick references were loving incredible - more like this pls. As emotionally engaging, draining, and amazing as this episode was, I'm still holding out hope for a solid 5-minute scene in this season that makes me feel as excited and entertained as S1's Bolero scene. This ep was like an hour long sad version of that. Edit: I am just now realizing that my favorite Hawley work (s1/2 of Fargo) I binged all at once while my lesser favorite work (Fargo s3 and s1 Legion) was watched weekly. I'm now convinced that Hawley's work all has to be fully binged. Get this man a Netflix deal, please! DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:56 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 07:50
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La Desolette (or whatever) reminded me of Burning Man. Burning Man takes place on a patch of land called The Playa (which looks like [and for all I know, actually is] the place La Desolette is being shot) and every year, "Black Rock City" is built in a different part of The Playa in order to preserve the land. I kinda wonder if they actually did shoot on The Playa as a sort of symbolism to this fact, what with the monastery constantly moving the same way Black Rock City does.
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May 24, 2018 23:03
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I was snoring at a bit too much of this season and last week's episode was a breaking point of awfulness for sure but the last episode was loving awesome and I loved it and I wish Noah Hawley was better at writing as consistently as he did for Fargo S2 so that I could actually look forward to S3 of Legion without being worried about how much of it is going to be boring vs how much of it I'm going to love. Hey so does the whole "they don't actually list out every chapter" thing mean there are holes in the story we witnessed this season and, what, next season is going to fill some of those holes in? In the same way David wasn't telling Sid the whole story, we aren't going to get the whole story either? Okay sorta reading the thread and: Perhaps a hamster posted:Tbf we didn't get to see chapter 11 yet, which I think is significant, 'cause who knows what the gently caress happened there. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 07:43
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Hey how come Cary talks about the smell and taste of beef bouillon when they were kids but earlier in the season she's grossed out by the entire concept of eating and drinking and using a toilet as though they were things she never understood?
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Jun 14, 2018 09:38
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Koirhor posted:I just grew tired of the artsy fartsy bullshit David isn't so much the bad guy (I mean, Farooq is still a thing) as he's proof that despite having good intentions, you can still super duper gently caress up and alienate everyone you know without even realizing it. It's his inability to accept this (slightly impossible to do when Farooq [still a thing] is freely walking around) that makes him a bad guy. Unless they actually spend all of Season 3 with tall-haired David (oh GOD do I hope they try this.) I'm now remembering that Professor X originally fought Farooq and I wish he could see what that resulted in. Also, if Farooq was genuine with his insistence that he was trying to get David to love him (ha) why did he manifest himself as a gross yellow-eyed monster man? A suave dude with sweet sunglasses probably would've come across better. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 11:25
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Y'know, thinking back on Season 1, I am kinda saddened that despite how good the Alternate Timeline episode, Dance Battle scene, and Farooq song-fight was in S2, neither of them really hit the same high notes hit by the Bollywood, Burlesque, and Bolero scenes in S1. Hell, I've probably watched that Bolero scene like two dozen times I love it so drat much but the only part of S2 I'd rewatch is the Farooq fight and even then, maybe a couple times before I'm good. It just didn't get me as goosebumpy.
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Jun 15, 2018 04:42
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Hey maybe I suck at watching TV but why did Farouk revive Lenny using David's sister? As in, what was his motivation to do that? As far as I can tell, after her revival, the only way she affected the outcome of this season was by sniping a rando boxhead, the choke, and the bullet Syd shot at David. Am I to assume that Farouk planned so far in advance that he even used Lenny as a pawn to make David hate Farouk more? Using his sister was, after all, the thing that made him go from wanting to help Farouk to refusing to help Farouk. Except, didn't Farouk talk to future Syd (and thus understand he was to be the hero) after he did that?
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Jun 17, 2018 20:41
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Yeah I guess but then that sorta 1: Disqualifies any "I wanted you to love me" talk Farouk was doing and 2: Continues to make me bothered that David doesn't once say "he killed my sister" when he's jailed and trying to explain himself to the gang. I'm not apologizing for David being a traitor but, ugh, it just rubs me the wrong way when you don't point out the most important recent aspect of why the villain is still a villain. Hey, so, box head people? What was that about? Also, minotaurs are real now? Huh? Was that a mutant? Did they just kill an X-man?
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Jun 17, 2018 20:53
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Barreft posted:I'm still not sure Farouk was even there physically. I'm honestly wondering what this end would have looked like without the extra episode Hawley was granted.
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Jun 19, 2018 01:46
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Also, add this to the list of things I'm still bothered by: At the beginning of the season, Syd is able to use telepathy and they seem to strongly want you to know that she likes switching places with a cat. None of this ever means anything for the rest of the season. ... unless the show is trying to say that she is a cat and Farouk is a mouse? DaveKap fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jun 21, 2018 |
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Jun 21, 2018 02:19
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Sio posted:he'd been depowered by the tuning fork when syd was shooting at him
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Jun 21, 2018 03:53
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Laterite posted:An 11th episode wasn't needed; what was needed was cutting huge swaths of "Farouk and Oliver drive in silence through the desert", or, "Two characters stare at each other for awhile". DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jun 26, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 03:13
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Codependent Poster posted:Kerry, Cary, and Switch are the only pure characters on the show. Everyone else alternates between sympathetic and vile. As far as I can tell, Lenny is literally the only person who isn't possibly under someone else's influence which itself is also probably wrong because she has David's sister haunting her and was created by Farouk. Honestly all of this would be great for like a 2 or 3 episode stint but an entire season of nobody acting of their own volition means I'm enjoying this show as an art piece and not as a TV show trying to convey a story.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:05
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Vernacular posted:A well-developed aspect of Farouk’s character is that he enjoys the gamesmanship and artistry surrounding the use of his powers. E.g his “what’s the fun in that?” remark. Nephthys posted:I don't think anyone in Division 3 is currently being mindcontrolled by Farouk. If they were they wouldn't do stuff like blatantly ignore his warnings about Switch or talk back to him and refuse his ideas like Syd did. They all seem to be acting under their own volition so far. The two times they managed to kill David, Farouk wasn't even necessary to have around. That sorta already proves how pointless it is to let him be as free as they have.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:13
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I guess another perspective of why this show is more fun to watch but not as fun to pay attention to is the fact that I personally despise characters that do not communicate a simple fact in order to allow the miscommunications between them be the cause of further conflict. Particularly, in this show's case, is the fact that David never actually communicates to Division 3 "Farouk is free, you understand his power, thus you should understand he is influencing you." This is a thing he knows for a fact because he had to reverse Farouk's influence. This is a thing Division 3 knows could happen. I don't expect it to fix anything if he says it but it's always nice to know he tried. Without it, it just feels like sloppy writing and poor character building. It's why I always appreciate those moments in media where one character questions something another character said or did and I audibly go "yeah, why that?!" Not enough writing is smart enough to do that. This is bad, I'm getting ranty. I'm still gonna watch the rest of this show and love it because it's very entertaining. I'm just done hoping they'll make it feel like any character earned anything they got.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:46
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Nephthys posted:God, same. The drug use is getting almost fetishisistic now and is makes me super uncomfortable. JossiRossi posted:David, without permission, went into Syd's head and forcibly changed her memory and perception of reality. He did this because Syd would not longer be with him based on things she had learned. Ersatz posted:Didn't season 2's finale explicitly show Farouk's rats scurrying around division 3 planting suggestions? It's not a stretch to see the entire organization as hopelessly compromised, with Farouk continuing to pull strings. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 03:59
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glitchwraith posted:We literally saw David using his powers to manipulate Lenny when he forced her to feel happy and go eat so he could talk to Switch alone. Now, obviously he hasn't brainwashed her enough to prevent her from feeling jealous over Switch and question his motives, but she is far from free of being supernaturally influenced. All in all, I'm not opposed to the extreme grey-ness of the series and the characters, I just don't feel ... satisfied by how it all fell into place. It's like someone gave me a jigsaw puzzle but the cardboard pieces are soggy. Sure I can put them together, but they don't really fit right. Hey, I'll admit I have a poo poo memory, too. The machine that stole David away at the end of Season 1... did we get any explanation behind that? Wasn't it from the future? What did it do with David, exactly? I forgot the entirety of what that was all about... DaveKap fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 04:16
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howe_sam posted:Did Melanie lie to Syd though? She showed her David torturing Oliver which did happen. I wasn't gonna rant about it but now that we're on the topic, gently caress it, I'll rant about it. Melanie took Syd to "the Minotaur's Labyrinth." The same Minotaur that was influencing Melanie similarly to how Farouk influenced David. She showed Syd information through pools of water while waving her hand. Melanie doesn't have any powers, she is a non-mutant. The fact Syd doesn't question any of this is 100% annoying to me and further proof that Syd was not acting of her own volition. Okay, that wasn't much of a rant, but out of all the scenes in this show, I hated that loving cave the most. Actually, considering how entertaining this show is, it might be the only scene that I just hate.
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Jul 4, 2019 05:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think it's pretty clear that David has been manipulating and controlling Syd since the very first episode. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 11:04
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JazzFlight posted:Great show, it's a bunch of garbage people I don't like. Way to go Noah Hawley. Majorian posted:Problem is, the writers made the turn from David being fundamentally good but damaged, to being an outright bad person, too quickly, in a totally unearned manner. Saying "Oh well he's always been a bad guy in the comics" isn't much of an excuse. Chalks posted:they should at least address it in a way that makes it clear that the problem is that David genuinely doesn't understand why the thing he did was wrong and is perhaps incapable of understanding. I do at least have to give the show some credit. It's making me think way more about the responsibilities of mutants with psychic powers who have brainwashed friends. Comic book theorizing ahoy. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 22:18
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Majorian posted:It reminds me a little bit of Daenerys' turn on GoT
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Jul 5, 2019 02:50
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glitchwraith posted:You keep saying this, but I'm not seeing it at all. Why do you think Lenny is manipulating David? So far, she's been behaving as just another of his goons, albeit the highest on the food chain. Other than her jealousy, she seems to be just enacting his will. And again, we've seen him manipulate her mind on screen. twistedmentat posted:Lenny has some level of control over David because she's an enabler. Corte posted:So I went back and watched a few parts of season 2 to get a better handle on the discussion. Something I think that isn't being discussed or noted is that David did not think he was raping Syd. I'm not saying this justifies or excuses his actions. Reviewing the scene where he uses his powers on Syd my interpretation is that he removed her memories of her interactions with Melanie that he believed was manipulation from Farouk causing her to turn on him. It's possible I'm mistaken and David's psychic manipulation went further. Assuming this he believed he was just reverting her back to the "real Syd" before she was twisted by the Shadow King. I guess I'm just trying to point out that perhaps intention should matter when considering the subject. I'm just kinda glad this thread is cool enough to know nobody here is literally defending sexual assault, we're analyzing why this show went off the rails. Comment sections of other discussion sites? Not so much. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 08:22
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Corte posted:Personally I don't think Farouk brainwashed Syd in the strictest sense of the word, meaning he didn't psychically manipulate her. At least they're being more obvious now with David that he'll boop someone on the nose to make them happy and agreeable, so there's no question he sucks now.
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Jul 7, 2019 08:19
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Good argument. So now that I'm done being a whiny rear end, there's something I have to really say is absolutely outstanding with this series: ambient music. I can't remember the last time I was trying to find the OST to a TV show purely for its ambient music and not for the (rather good) licensed remixes. Maybe Mr. Robot season 1? Anyway, Switch's theme in Ep 1 was awesome and I hope we get to have some more of that before the season ends.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:36
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Andrew_1985 posted:Was that episode boring AF or was it just me? They took 15 minutes of content and stretched it to 45, something that Hawley is, at this point and in my mind, notorious for doing during Legion. It's a delicate balance when you're trying to impart tension and immersion not to completely bore the viewer and in this case, they bored the viewer. Not to mention I was really looking forward to what was coming next and neither the "David fails to save himself" nor the "David caused his own downfall" outcomes are an interesting next step. Chalks posted:So when exactly is the show meant to be taking place? Edit: Before everyone starts listing other contradictions, also note how many years Melanie's husband, who is absolutely of the 60s free love era, had been frozen. More recently, in this episode we see David's mom reading him Harold and the Purple Crayon which was a 1955 book... 10 years after WW2 ended, so he wasn't born in the 40s. One more thing to note, apparently Melanie's actress hasn't even been cast in this season. So, uh.... yeah.... that's a thing. Edit 2: So um... I guess the instruction book on tape on time travel is literally warning you that the further back you try to go, the more likely Farouk the Shadow King is going to gently caress with you? He's just that well known now? DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 22:14
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: Hawley's style works optimally as a binge watch but not as a weekly watch. I am, unfortunately, under auspicious circumstances to state this as his best works (Fargo seasons 1 and 2) are his only works I've binge watched. Past Legion season 1, I cannot recommend Legion S2 or Fargo S3 as anything other than binge watching... which is fortunate because they're already finished.
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Jul 11, 2019 08:57
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Wafflecopper posted:I dunno I watched all of Legion and Fargo week by week and enjoyed them all just fine
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Jul 11, 2019 09:54
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Well that episode was fantastic (and whiplash) and even if I have trouble with how they managed some things with this show, it'll all still be worth it for Season 1's Bolero sequence and this: https://i.imgur.com/G7HhAOB.mp4 It's a shame that those time demons are most likely not gonna show up in the next 4 episodes because I would've loved to have an entire season of those buggers. They're probably the best monster creation I've seen in media since... I don't even loving know.
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Jul 17, 2019 07:03
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Oasx posted:My impression is that David is not controlling Switch, but that Cary just assumed so, she just went with him to be safe from the time eaters. By popular demand posted:It bears repeating on this page that searching for "time eaters" will get you to some spoilers for future things in an interview (and pictures) with the FX guys. So... about them showing Syd talking to her younger self... The fact she's admitting that she did love David (gently caress the suggestion that David had manipulated her from the first episode on) makes me think that they actually, somehow, possibly, just might reconcile the absolutely stupid way the plot went with all that poo poo. I honestly thought they were just going to ignore the end of Season 2 and try to move in this forced direction but there's now a renewed hope in me. Good poo poo. Good episode. God I hope they can finish this show strongly.
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Jul 17, 2019 07:34
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Oasx posted:Is anyone able to squeeze this down to avatar size? The various online tools that I have tried can't quite do it.  One extra frame takes it over the 150kb limit. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 22:02
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I loved the episode. Considering I'm the guy complaining about Farouk tricking Syd, it was nice to hear her admit that she finally understood how hosed the situation was. Too bad David's too far into his time travel plan to forgive. It's always weird to me when someone with Godly powers like David exists in a plot and decides that plot armor (or plot weakness) will still let Lenny kill herself and Kerry only get shockwaved instead of exploded. In the same vein, I didn't feel much remorse for Clark and his relationship. Like, they were trying to make it super sad and painful that his husband had his memory wiped enough to forget who Clark was but since Clark ends up dead in the same episode, the sting kinda went away pretty quickly. He wallowed in sadness for less than an hour and then got spaced. So, like, yeah, whatever. He was a dick in Season 1 anyway. Seeing as how David's personality is now officially split into Legion (despite the fact it's probably been that way his whole life) the only good end I can see is one where his personalities are merged back into a singular, innocent David at the cost of his power. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if that Pokeball was, in fact, grabbing the most lucid and singular David from the end of Season 1 to fight the final form of Legion. My only problem then would be... what happened to this guy? 
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Jul 25, 2019 12:06
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Corte posted:I appreciate your contributions to the thread as it has made me consider angles and theories I otherwise might not have. I had a different interpretation of the interaction between Syd and David. I believe she was telling him what he wanted to hear so she could get close enough to touch him and switch bodies. The reason I believe this to be the case is her calm reaction when David tells her Farouk betrayed them: "he didn't like our plan". I don't think Syd has ever trusted Farouk just saw him as a necessary evil to combat David and prevent the end of the world. That doesn't mean there wasn't truth in her words but I don't think it's exactly what she believes. uber_stoat posted:yeah, generally all the musical numbers are representative of some kind of psychic tomfoolery. the very first one in the show was David mindfucking Syd. As for the whole "does it matter which Syd you are" discussion, here's the reminder of the best episode from Season 2; where we see the alternate realities of what could have happened to David if something had changed earlier in his life. It's entirely possible that this episode ends up getting referenced for the next bit of traveling David does. That aside, I think if you were traveling through time without the training Switch is going through, it's incredibly easy to suddenly see your present state as inconsequential if you don't ascribe to the multiverse theory. In fact, if you followed the most well known version of time travel, Back to the Future's, David's perspective isn't purely psychopathic, it's cold logic. I'm not saying the means justify the ends, I'm just saying it's easier for him to believe that what he's doing will be better for everyone. Edit: Come to think of it, Switch's training in this episode specifically calls out the fact that you, as a time traveler, will find your life to be inconsequential. I wish this was one of those shows where the full instruction set was posted online somewhere so you knew what kind of training Switch was going through ahead of time as a sort of hint as to what the season would involve. This is fun stuff! Yay, Legion didn't suck this season! Now they just have to land this thing. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 21:26
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rapeface posted:I really don't see how it makes the show pointless if the theme was how abusers delude everyone including themselves about their actions (if that even is the theme). I don't really see the central core of the show as the power of love. I hope you liked my awful metaphor.
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Jul 26, 2019 11:53
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rapeface posted:Look, if you like a story about the redemptive power of love better than a story of obsession and power abuse, that's fine, but that doesn't mean there aren't others that think the use of psychic powers as a metaphor for power abuse is a clever and cool.
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Jul 27, 2019 12:23
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poo poo, why did I even bother trying to explain it to rapeface of all people. Anyway, I do love this season's hypothetical time traveler's quandary of whether or not the means of murder justify the ends of saving everyone's lives and am looking forward to where they end up. rapeface posted:Even if he really does believe that, we, the audience, know he's wrong. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 12:36
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Argh this is why I shouldn't post before going to sleep. I completely gloss over the important bits of what I'm trying to argue and look stupid. That post is fair game, have at it.Jonah Galtberg posted:Italics and boldface Anyway, the point I was trying to make wasn't so much that a piece of entertainment can't change its themes mid-series... rapeface posted:I know, I was pretty pissed when I found out he was a ghost for the entire movie. The point I was trying to make was that the specific flip-flop Legion made was one that exploited its viewers. This is why you get posts like this: Chokes McGee posted:Yeah, that's why I bailed on the show at the end of Season 2. Season 2 had a very confusing theme. You had the pokeball, Farouk's body, future Syd, the Minotaur, the desert, the monk, chattering teeth, Division 3... in the end the whole thing felt like it was being weird for weird's sake and not because it had anything to say. But Season 2 ended with a specific point. The Season 1 "good guys" believed David raped Syd. Again, before this scene happened, I never read anyone mention that they thought David was manipulating Syd in any way. Yet now that this scene is out there, the positive theme of Season 1 clashes with the themes of power, abuse, and manipulation in a way that, to some, could easily feel like an exploitation of the positive feelings one had for Season 1 of the show. "Remember how you enjoyed this scene, audience member?" https://i.imgur.com/hpshAQI.mp4 "David manipulated Syd into doing that! You never should have enjoyed that! Haw haw!" In a way, it's brilliant. The show has exploited the viewer in the same way David may have exploited Syd. That's some solid immersion! In another way, that's how you lose enough viewers to have to cut your show down to a 3-season stint. (Was it always supposed to be 3 seasons? I actually don't know.) The flip flopped too hard and rubs people the wrong way. And in the end, I still have no idea if half the crazy poo poo that happened in Season 2 was for any good reason for anyone, be it characters in the show, how the show is perceived by an audience, or some long-term plot that's going to get snuffed 3 episodes from now. Actually, since some of ya'll are rewatching older episodes, maybe you can help me out. What was the point of transforming David's sister? What was the point of the Minotuar's existence in the cave? I'm still hopeful we get an answer about that pokeball in the final episodes. Even if I'm wrong about all this, I think this is a great discussion and at the very least have to credit the show for making it worth talking about. rapeface posted:If you think all other characters in the current timeline don't matter except to be empty vessels for the protagonist to act upon then idk what to tell you dude. Chadzok posted:I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "positive payoff". I'm enjoying season three, is my enjoyment a positive payoff, or do you mean a positive outcome for a character or something?
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Jul 28, 2019 00:29
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Necrothatcher posted:Are you implying that this show has raped its viewers?
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Jul 28, 2019 01:31
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