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JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

flatluigi posted:

this show is great and I love every episode

I think the cellphone jon hamm segment might be the lowest point of the whole show though
That cellphone segment was realllllllly cliche and didn't fit the normally original ideas this show has. That part felt like an unrelated PSA/afterschool special and also kinda broke the interesting alternate reality of Legion which is set in some non-existent offshoot of our world where the 60s-2000s-era fashion and technology merge together. Instead, uhhhhh, this girl has an iPhone.

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JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

R-Type posted:

This show is a big nothingburger. A massive, beautiful nothingburger, with huge poppy seeds, toasted buns, and stacked a foot tall. But all the lettuce, tomatoes, beef is a very thin layer that's at the very edge to make the burger look like its full. Take off the bun, and there isn't anything inside - its hollow. Much like this show. I still like it, but I'm not gushing over it. It still shows and runs better than any of the recent Netflix Marvel capeshit, which speaks volumes to how terrible JJ, Defenders and Iron Fist was.
Agreed. It's directed/produced realllllllly well, but it's so plot-less this season.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Proteus Jones posted:

You legitimately don’t have any idea of what’s going on this season? How?
Errrrr, I don't think I said I didn't understand it. I agreed that it feels hollow. Like they tease they're going to reveal stuff, but the plot doesn't actually move that much forward. Instead, it focuses inward to a few characters, feeling very claustrophobic.

It's still one of the best directed/edited shows on TV right now, but it's stuck in a rut story-wise.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Koirhor posted:

I have zero interest in Season 3 which is amazing considering how much I had been looking forward to Season 2. I mean that takes some god drat effort.
Yeah, same here. The second half of this season just fell off a cliff for me and that last ep was a major mess, as evidenced by the arguments just in this thread alone. Ugh, so disappointing.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Escobarbarian posted:

Is this ending as bad as it sounds

Because it sounds loving awful
Yes. It introduced a lot of unjustifiable plot twists and muddy ambiguity that just wasn't earned after dicking around too much in earlier episodes. Why they also thought tossing in a drugged rape plot for the protagonist was a good idea is mystifying as well.

It felt like the show was trying to gaslight the audience when Syd kept tsk-tsking him at gunpoint when I was shouting at the screen, "uh, Farouk is on the ground and about to regain his powers, how about we deal with him first instead you stupid character!"

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Dreylad posted:

I'm a little heartened by the fact that Hawley is at least thinking about if a character can come back from what David did (and as people mentioned earlier, it's to the show's credit that the actors for both David and Farouk are truly excellent at getting you to at least consider their side). Because a TV show is going to have to do a lot, especially in this cultural moment, to have a character commit sexual assault and then have another season where you might try to rehabilitate him.

All the slowness and random bits don't bother me but I've been inoculated from watching The Americans. The show's at least earned a last season to see how things play out -- I just wish there weren't so many loose threads, like Oliver's threat and plan. If those end up playing out next season that seems like a bit lovely.
What exactly is Farouk's "side?" Like, I know the show is trying to blow my mind by making me think "what if the villain is the hero and the hero is the villain!" but how is Farouk supposed to be a good person from what we've seen him do over the course of the show?

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Looks interesting, but... as an audience member, I'm a bit lost as to who to root for?

Is anyone going to be likable this season?

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

I'm feeling a bit iffy on this second episode. I don't like watching the show as much when all the characters are bad people. I liked the introduction of Switch in the premiere because she's a fresh innocent, but the second episode didn't feature her as much so we're back to characters manipulating one another. I just want to feel like I'm on at least one person's side instead of feeling gross when David or Farouk brainwashes someone.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

DaveKap posted:

I guess another perspective of why this show is more fun to watch but not as fun to pay attention to is the fact that I personally despise characters that do not communicate a simple fact in order to allow the miscommunications between them be the cause of further conflict. Particularly, in this show's case, is the fact that David never actually communicates to Division 3 "Farouk is free, you understand his power, thus you should understand he is influencing you." This is a thing he knows for a fact because he had to reverse Farouk's influence. This is a thing Division 3 knows could happen. I don't expect it to fix anything if he says it but it's always nice to know he tried. Without it, it just feels like sloppy writing and poor character building. It's why I always appreciate those moments in media where one character questions something another character said or did and I audibly go "yeah, why that?!" Not enough writing is smart enough to do that.

This is bad, I'm getting ranty. I'm still gonna watch the rest of this show and love it because it's very entertaining. I'm just done hoping they'll make it feel like any character earned anything they got.
Nah, you're right, you articulated everything I'm feeling about the show in your last few posts.

I also am kinda over seeing the same "everybody's getting high, let's play a 60s era song while people sway like hippies and smoke blows in the camera" scenes. They've repeated it many times in the series and each time it takes like 2-minute chunks out of the show for no reason.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Megillah Gorilla posted:

David is not just a broken person, he's a bad person.

"I deserve to be loved"

This is all that is driving David at the moment.

The mind controlled hippy cult and his efforts to time travel - all about people loving him. He wants Sid to love him despite him raping her, but doesn't want to change himself or suffer for his crimes in any way.

As Sid pointed out to him, even if he goes back and undoes his crimes, he'll still be the same person who committed those crimes in the first place.

He wants it all, but doesn't want to earn anything and refuses to accept consequences.



David is broken and bad. Farouk is literally a monster. Division 3 are chess pieces.
Great show, it's a bunch of garbage people I don't like. Way to go Noah Hawley.
If he hadn't thrown that stupid left-turn rape plot into this show it would have been so much more enjoyable.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Corte posted:

So I went back and watched a few parts of season 2 to get a better handle on the discussion. Something I think that isn't being discussed or noted is that David did not think he was raping Syd. I'm not saying this justifies or excuses his actions. Reviewing the scene where he uses his powers on Syd my interpretation is that he removed her memories of her interactions with Melanie that he believed was manipulation from Farouk causing her to turn on him. It's possible I'm mistaken and David's psychic manipulation went further. Assuming this he believed he was just reverting her back to the "real Syd" before she was twisted by the Shadow King. I guess I'm just trying to point out that perhaps intention should matter when considering the subject.

Again I am not condoning or suggesting his actions were in any way acceptable. It doesn't make what he did any less heinous but if the intention wasn't to cause harm or commit wrong is he inherently evil and irredeemable? I think this is important because as many have pointed out if that is the case he becomes a less interesting and more limited character. I also think it doesn't make sense from a development perspective as some have pointed out as it's quite jarring if that scene or event was the no turning back point. I think the intention was for that to be one of the first steps down a dark path, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", which lead to him ending the world.
That's exactly it... but then the writers had him immediately have sex with her while she was kinda groggy and out of it (like she was drugged/drunk). He couldn't just wait a few days until she gets her loving bearings back? Pure character assassination to make the show "deeper" and "not so black-and-white."

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JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

I liked the ending, but I’m always a sucker for extended timeskip epilogues, so I was hoping that at the very end we would jump to a future where we pan across from the Xavier School for Mutants sign to a class with teenage David. Then a new girl is introduced to the class and she greets him as Syd, implying that they eventually meet in better circumstances (and that her mother would have had a place to send her to learn her powers).

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