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So, I think its practical to assume that the Germans will claim the NE hill like so Im willing to bet a division goes there quicklike. The real question to me is, does their other division come from the west...  or the north?  edit: Important questions to come out of this: How fast can a german division take the NE hill, emplace artillery, and overlook the center city? Loel fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 04:49
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High Command has stated they will be entering the AO (generally) from the North of us, So probably the latter map is accurate.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:52
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The latter map is probably accurate, although they may not have the full north to enter from.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:53
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 Okay, so if we're assuming they come from the north.. Where will we be on the road approach when they are able to take the hills? Im concerned about getting hammered by hill artillery while we are on the roads. If we assume they take the north hills, do we want to try an oblique flank? 
Loel fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 04:59
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Loel posted:
If we go with an oblique flank, I'd want to be a bit more aggressive, setting up in the Fraise-champs with firepower to hurt their ability to reinforce as easily.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:06
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Artillery range is only eighteen inches, so they could only really hammer the east-west road out of St Croissant from their hills. It'd be safe to assume that road is a deathtrap, and avoid it where possible. Wherever they set up from, they're going to be able to have big guns on the western hill ready to fire by turn 3-4. If they're restricted to, say, the western half of the northern table edge, they could take as long as turn 5-6 to be ready to shoot from the entirety of Pasteur Ridge. The only part of the east-west road that really concerns us in the two potential plans we're playing with is between Baguende and Baguette, and from our position on La Cote that we're going to nail down nice and early, we'll be quite able to assess and deal with whatever forces they have on the eastern side of Pasteur Ridge.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:06
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xthetenth posted:If we go with an oblique flank, I'd want to be a bit more aggressive, setting up in the Fraise-champs with firepower to hurt their ability to reinforce as easily.  If the oblique can fold their flank, I can see that working pretty well. edit: If someone can sketch where they would be at 4th turn (along hills) and where we would be on approach, that would be much appreciated. Loel fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 05:12
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That's going to depend on where they set up. Part of the reason I like Fraise-champs is because I can set up there with a good firing position down the road through Bois de Gooneville and cut off all road access to the East from the West, and the artillery and MG range only goes halfway into Bois de Gooneville so I'm less likely to get absolutely hammered in return. There might be units in Brioche, but the outskirts are going to limit their options pretty severely, and I'd be able to trade back with artillery fire.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:21
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 Actually, there might be an opportunity here. If they split their forces to both hills, we could use arty support on Clemencau and infantry from La Cote to roll Pastuer Ridge at 2:1 numbers.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:33
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 Général de Division Tebeka Plan Chardonnay order of battle: General Mon Pere, for this battle plan I would request the assignment of both reserve infantry brigades, 8 of the corps 75mm artillery, and the corps engineers.
Phase 1 (0700-0900) 52nd and 53rd proceed to La Cote ridge, securing it. 54th and 55th proceed to Baguette Village, securing it. 119th and 120th proceed to southern slope of La Cote ridge. Phase 2 (0900-1100) IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested, 52nd and 53rd are to proceed north then west, attempting to secure Pasteur ridge from the east slope. IF La Cote ridge IS contested, 52nd and 53rd are to destroy enemy formations in that area, supported by 119th and 120th. IF Baguette village IS NOT contested, 54th is to remain there and dig in while 55th proceeds to St Croissants, either joining the 22nd Division assault or securing the town. IF Baguette village IS contested, 54th and 55th are to destroy enemy formations in that area. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to assume a defensive posture, entrenching. Engineering assets are to lay barbed wire. IF La Cote ridge IS contested, 119th and 120th are to support 52nd and 53rd against enemy formations. Phase 3 (1100-1300) IF any previous objectives are contested, all brigades are to destroy enemy formations they are in contact with. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested, 52nd and 53rd are to occupy the high ground and support St Croissants. IF St Croissants IS NOT contested, 54th is to dig in to secure it. Divisional Cavalry is to be used in a scouting role. IF Baguette IS NOT contested, 55th is to dig in and secure it. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to continue entrenching. Engineering assets are to secure further barbed wire from local farms and continue reinforcing the position. Phase 4 (1300-1500) IF any previous objectives are contested, all brigades are to destroy enemy formations they are in contact with. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS NOT contested 52nd and 53rd are to proceed to the North of Pasteur ridge to intercept enemy reinforcements coming from Bouclecourt or Veine. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS contested 52nd and 53rd are to support 54th in defense of the town. IF St Croissants IS NOT contested, 54th is to continue entrenching. Divisional Cavalry is to be used in a scouting role. IF Baguette IS NOT contested, 55th is to continue entrenching and provide artillery support to St Croissants and Pasteur Ridge. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to continue entrenching. Engineering assets are to begin laying roadblocks on the low ground below the W edge of La Cote. Phase 5 (1500-1700) IF any previous objectives are contested, all brigades are to destroy enemy formations they are in contact with. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS NOT contested AND no enemy reinforcements are apparent 52nd and 53rd are to move W to attack Veine. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS contested 52nd and 53rd are to support 54th in defense of the town. IF St Croissants IS NOT contested, 54th is to continue entrenching. Divisional Cavalry is to be used in a scouting role. IF Baguette IS NOT contested, 55th is to continue entrenching and provide artillery support to St Croissants and Pasteur Ridge. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to continue entrenching. Engineering assets are to continue laying roadblocks and barbed wire in support of defensive positions. Phase 6 (1700-1900) IF any previous objectives are contested, all brigades are to destroy enemy formations they are in contact with. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS NOT contested AND no enemy reinforcements are apparent AND Veine is not contested 52nd and 53rd are to move W to attack Faibleimpot. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS contested 52nd and 53rd are to support 54th in defense of the town. IF St Croissants IS NOT contested, 54th is to continue entrenching. Divisional Cavalry is to be used in a scouting role. IF Baguette IS NOT contested, 55th is to continue entrenching and provide artillery support to St Croissants and Pasteur Ridge. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to continue entrenching. Engineering assets are to continue laying roadblocks and barbed wire in support of defensive positions. Phase 7 (1900-2030) IF any previous objectives are contested, all brigades are to destroy enemy formations they are in contact with. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS NOT contested AND no enemy reinforcements are apparent AND Veine is not contested AND Faibleimpot is not contested 52nd and 53rd are to secure Faibleimpot. IF Pasteur ridge IS NOT contested AND St Croissants IS contested 52nd and 53rd are to support 54th in defense of the town. IF St Croissants IS NOT contested, 54th is to continue entrenching. Divisional Cavalry is to be used in a scouting role. IF Baguette IS NOT contested, 55th is to continue entrenching and provide artillery support to St Croissants and Pasteur Ridge. IF La Cote ridge IS NOT contested 119th and 120th are to continue entrenching. Engineering assets are to continue laying roadblocks and barbed wire in support of defensive positions. Fader Movitz posted:Staff officer F. Movitz reporting for duty, how can I be of assistance? Ah, Movitz, good. Can you turn your excellent penmanship and artists eye to illustrating my strategic vision? I've got important brandy to drink. thatbastardken fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 05:35
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Turn Four: There are four possible scenarios based on four possible starting locations: northwest corner, western side of northern edge, eastern side of northern edge, and northeast corner. I have colour-coded each of these entry zones, and marked possible enemy infantry positions for each of them at the end of turn four. A solid line indicates that they have had time to unlimber any guns they may have. An arrow indicates that they are only just arriving in this position at the end of turn 4. This does not take into account the unknown movement penalty from hills, or the possible positions of any enemy cavalry.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:37
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Tehan posted:Turn Four: This is really good work, thank you.  What do you think the best/worst case scenario would be?edit: and how can we find out which one we're facing? Loel fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 05:39
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Loel posted:
We'll be able to move down roads in marching order faster than they will be able to get up on the hills. And if 6th Division can get guns in Baguette (and if we get the reservists some guns up on Le Cote), we will will be able to pepper Le Pasteur pretty well.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:59
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At the end of turn two, you, or the cavalry scout attached to any infantry brigade, can be at the western edge of the road overlooking the Clemenceau highlands, giving the following sightline: At this point, it is possible that enemy cavalry units will be in sight. If they are, then they will reveal that the enemy used the entry edge of the according colour. Otherwise, you have less information to go off. However, should a single unit be left as a scout, they would see possible infantry movements on turn three that will likewise reveal the enemy's entry area:  Seeing cavalry on turn three, unfortunately, wouldn't tell us anything concrete.
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Feb 12, 2017 06:17
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So I could use that as a conditional if case blue is active and get into position in other cases? Nice.
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Feb 12, 2017 06:22
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Major problem with current deployment plans: Our forces heading west towards La Ouef and to ready for assault on St Croissants will be arriving along the blue arrow at turn four. Case Yellow could have infantry having arrived at St Croissants on turn three and be ready to fire any artillery accompanying them on turn four; Case Blue would have them arriving on four and ready to fire on turn five. And as shown in the image above, the road west of Clemenceau is within the 18" range of artillery, including part of the road on the highlands - so our forces, visible due to being on top of the Clemenceau highlands, would be vulnerable to enemy artillery until they reach the lowlands and the enemy lose visibility on us. To be safe, we would either need good and reliable scouting to be sure the enemy hasn't rushed St Croissants and a plan in place to divert us if they had, or we would have to route around the 18" range of artillery stationed in St Croissants.
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Feb 12, 2017 06:36
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Tehan posted:Major problem with current deployment plans: Then we need a brigade with artillery on the hill covering things. As soon as the Boche open fire -- our overwatch will be able to hit anyone in the village.
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Feb 12, 2017 07:21
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My men will happily exchange their lives for Boche artillery 
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Feb 12, 2017 07:28
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For the record, all current division level planning seems to be focused on modifications of Plan Chardonnay, responding to the various colour cases for German advance
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Feb 12, 2017 08:24
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Tehan posted:Major problem with current deployment plans: Artillery can't fire out of St. Croissants.
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Feb 12, 2017 12:30
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unless stationed in the outskirts
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Feb 12, 2017 12:52
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Revised order of battle:
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Feb 12, 2017 13:19
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thatbastardken posted:For the record, all current division level planning seems to be focused on modifications of Plan Chardonnay, responding to the various colour cases for German advance quote:The big difference between the two Plans in the initial stages appears to be how aggressive Red Group is towards La Cote / Baguette. Chardonnay  Pinot Noir Like so. So the question is, what is the latest turn we can make the decision point between the two plans? And, what do the cavalry need to be seeing for us to do one over the other?
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Feb 12, 2017 15:53
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Loel posted:The big difference between the two Plans in the initial stages appears to be how aggressive Red Group is towards La Cote / Baguette. There is no choosing. We can do one or we can do the other. But the slow speed of forces and the slowness of communications means we have to pick one. At this point the consensus appears to be towards a modified Chardonnay plan. 22nd Division (Blue) will do this. Our attached 6th Cavalry Brigade will rush to the Friase-champs farm and set up defensive positions. 99th Brigade(+) will take Clemenceau with infantry and artillery and set up over-watch positions. 98th Brigade will assault Saint Croissant. 96th Brigade will assault the Bois de Gooneville. 97th Brigade(+) will scout the Le Oeuf with its attach cavalry company and then take the high ground. It will emplace artillery to overwatch St. Croissant and entrench using its engineers.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:52
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I just realized that if they're trying to set up in the St. Croissants outskirts with artillery, they're going to have to have the artillery exposed in a way that the cavalry can absolutely hammer them and from Fraise-champs can probably spot them just fine. Keep in mind that there's no room in the outskirts to do anything other than have those units sitting out without any cover in front. They'd likely come off the worse against my cavalry.
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Feb 12, 2017 18:11
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Bacarruda posted:There is no choosing. We can do one or we can do the other. But the slow speed of forces and the slowness of communications means we have to pick one. Can we get a confirmation of that from my dad? Just to be sure we're all on the same page   Chardonnay Red  Chardonnay Blue  Chardonnay Yellow  Chardonnay Purple Priorities are going to be Cavalry to Toillettes-champs, are we facing Red or Blue? Cavalry to Baguende, are we facing Yellow or Purple? edit: Im astonished to say there are wine bottles for each of those. So I guess the subalterns better be ready. Loel fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 18:33
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Modified Chardonnay, yes. General Mon Pere, Corps Commander I hereby promote Slim Jim Pickens to the position of Chief of Staff of our corps.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:13
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An updated guide to brigadiers for writing orders (and sorting out a few existing complexity vs playability issues) will appear tomorrow. In the meantime, everyone should check my rules posts again, thoroughly, and get any remaining questions out now. I'm surely not the first person to underestimate the amount of changes that needed to be made after playtesting and I've been tweaking and experimenting and re-experimenting and re-tweaking in response to test results and player questions, unfortunately without keeping a proper changelog (it would have drowned the thread in me if I'd made a new post for every change). But yeah, stuff's changed, most of it not drastically, but lots of it will affect which orders you give and how. In particular I am thinking very hard about the whole question of conditional orders and automatic responses; somewhere in there is the balance I'm looking for between giving you the freedom to be cool and imaginative, and making the game impossible to adjudicate from drowning in "if X, then Y; if A, then B; if L and a little P comes out, IHOP; but I before E except after C at all times when you hold a half fizzbin" constructions all tailored to each individual brigade, either because of orders that end up butting against the rules, or having to apply a million automatic responses every time a brigade even thinks about advancing. Still trying to find it. Sorry; this is possibly now starting to cut into brigadiers' critical planning time. It may be a question of this is something that just has to be played out.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:57
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Make a limit on conditional orders per brigade: if x then y, if a then b. Possibly if c then d as well, but two step would probably be a workable solution.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:06
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 "UP AND AT'EM UP AND AT'EM"  "LUCKY" 99TH WILL TAKE CLEMENCEAU AT ALL POSSIBLE SPEED 99TH HQ WILL DEPLOY TO THE TOWN ITSELF INFANTRY WILL ADVANCE NORTH TO THE EDGE OF THE HEIGHTS ARTILLERY WILL EMPLACE BEHIND THEM ANY SIGHTINGS OF THE ENEMY WILL BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY TO DIVISION HQ AND NEIGHBORING BRIGADES GOOD LUCK
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Feb 12, 2017 22:17
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WE HAVEN'T YET STARTED BRIGADE LEVEL ORDERS OFFICIALLY. (the above can stand for now, but wait until the go-ahead has been given)
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Feb 12, 2017 22:40
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my dad posted:WE HAVEN'T YET STARTED BRIGADE LEVEL ORDERS OFFICIALLY. Bacarruda posted:22nd Division (Blue) will do this. 
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Feb 12, 2017 22:43
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Général de brigade Hephasto confirming that the 54e stands ready to repel the hated invaders.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:32
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There are only so many lines of code the average world war 1 soldier can be programmed with. Set a limit to X lines of dot point orders including both movements and conditionals. This seems like the easiest solution. If an individual order is too complicated then the commanders tactical genius has confused the poor company commander and he will need it dumbed down.
AbortRetryFail fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 02:14
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10 advance towards enemy at walking pace 20 goto 10
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Feb 13, 2017 02:16
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thatbastardken posted:10 advance towards enemy at walking pace Drawing commands: Lower bayonet into dirt / raise bayonet from dirt Let's make some sick artwork
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Feb 13, 2017 02:20
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AbortRetryFail posted:Drawing commands:  The column will advance at a walk
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Feb 13, 2017 02:23
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Deployment Information Slim Jim Pickens, Chief of Staff These are the starting infantry deployments of our modified Plan Chardonnay. On turn 1, 6th Division begins in very, very close order, while 22nd Division will take two routes towards Clemenceau. The light brigades (96e, 98e) will go through la Bois de Tigres in battle order, while the heavy brigades (99e, 97e) must make a road march. Also included are the expected troop movements up to 8:30am (turn 3). At the end of that turn, any Boche movements along Pasteur Ridge will be revealed by soldiers in Baguende, and brigades in 6th Division will either switch to a defensive posture or continue marching onto St. Croissant accordingly. 22nd Div will still be marching and should be safe from attack.  The 6th division's cavalry company is attached to the 52e Brigade (Comrade Koba), and should be able to scout the NE quadrant 1 turn before infantry can. It isn't clear where 22 division's cavalry company is attached. It's either the 6e Cavalry or 97e Brigade. 54e Brigade (Hephasto) has lowest priority in the march column on the Clemenceau road. 6e Cavalry will be switching to battle order at the T-intersection, and possibly spot Boche in Bois de Goonville. By turn 5, the situation should resemble this.  The ?s mark obvious conditional circumstances. In the NE, if 6th Division encounters strong German forces, they should be defending La Cote, with the two Reserve brigades in support. If the NE is empty, 6th Div can continue advancing towards St. Croissant, while the Reserve brigades dig into La Cote. 6e Cavalry will switch to battle order, and either retreat away from Boche on turn 5, or lay an ambush as Fraise-champs. 99e Brigade must spend turn 5 switching to battle order near Clemenceau. 97e Brigade is still marching on turn 5. 54e Brigade must spend turn 5 switching to battle order, and then feel free to advance on Baguette or St. Croissant. These Turn 1 regimental positions are basically fixed. The situation on the ground will look something like this, so there's not much room for any changes in positioning.  6th Division 52e Brigade - Comrade Koba - Starts in Battle order- 1x Divisional cavalry, 1x Corps 75mm Gun 53e Brigade - sixkiller - Starts in Battle order - 1x Corps 75mm Gun 54e Brigade - hephasto - Starts in Marching order 55e Brigade - sullat - Starts in Battle order - 9x Divisional 75mm gun, 119e (Reservistes) Brigade - lenoon - Starts in Battle order - Divisional Engineers, 3x Corps 75mm Gun 120e (Reservistes) Brigade - Arbite - Starts in Battle order - Corps Engineers, 3x Corps 75mm Gun 22nd Division: Bacarruda 96e Brigade - Tehan - Starts in Battle order 97e Brigade - Hunt11 - Starts in Marching order - 5x 75mm Artillery, Engineers 98e Brigade - AbortRetryFail - Starts in Battle order 99e Brigade - Loel - Starts in Marching order - 4x 75mm Artillery 6e Cavalry Brigade - xthetenth - Starts in Marching order - 1x Cavalry Company Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 03:14
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Also, 22nd Div currently calls for 1 more cav company that we actually have. There's also 4 Corps 75mm guns and 2 155 guns that are not currently attached to a brigade.
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Feb 13, 2017 03:59
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Also, 22nd Div currently calls for 1 more cav company that we actually have. Really could do with some cannon near me
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Feb 13, 2017 04:05
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