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I would gladly take a division. I think in the last game I was a corps commander, but it was structured differently. Also I'm glad there's no river crossing on this map, Figuring out how to move engineers to build pontoons was a huge PITA in the first game. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 23:09
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Crazycryodude posted:Brigade me up. Also, anybody got a link to the Roll20 room that apparently exists? There's a link in Perestroika's post.
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Feb 9, 2017 09:00
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I have a question, in " Once everyone's come to a stop, you may adjust one-third of your companies per turn, but only if you've Spotted (according to the rules) or been fired on by an enemy unit. " What exactly do you mean by "adjust"? Shift from defense to attack? Move around? Also I remember in Grey's game attacking units couldn't stop moving forward, I assume it's still the case?
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Feb 9, 2017 15:13
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One more question, in this scenario, if the infantry is our guy, and the cav is enemy, which of the cav units are visible to us? Basically I wanna know how hills work, since they don't have a natural crest that would determine the limits of line of sight. 
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Feb 9, 2017 18:41
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Finally, I have made a map with a grid that can be toggled on and off, as well as movable tokens for each unit type, if anybody would find it convenient. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p49nuujzrzrp6pm/Master%20Map.psd?dl=0
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Feb 9, 2017 18:45
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Trin Tragula posted:I have a request here from a HEY GAIL who can't get to a computer at the moment for command of the 77nd Brigade Sure, let me know what sizes you would like and I will render them.
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Feb 9, 2017 19:00
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Trin Tragula posted:It's both; a human commands it and it has an HQ chit, but it starts the game as a Corps asset and must be assigned by the Corps commander to a Division before it can do anything. OK, here it is, hope it's what you were asking for. The grids exist as bitmap layers as well as three black channels - these extra channels won't render in most image formats, which may be useful depending on your workflow. https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg9u6y4p17b3rno/Grids.psd?dl=0 steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 20:46
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OK, so there was talk of plans at Roll 20. I made a suggestion which I still think is sound, and because Trin said to share Roll 20 comms with the thread, I'd like to post it. So, what do we have here? We assume that the enemy deploys at the opposite side of the field, covering the objective (Quatreprouts) from two ridges. To reach the objective relatively safely, destroying the enemy in the process, and if possible in detail, using local superiority as the principal guideline for action, I propose this - GOALS - Capture SAINT CROISSANT - Destroy enemy's currently fielded fighting power through a series of deliberate, one-sided engagements -Capture QUATREPROUTS, secure overwatch from surrounding ridges, now cleared of enemy - Minimize threat of flanking, maintain shortest possible frontlines - I believe the plan sketched at Roll 20 spreads the Corps too thin too early to give us proper flexibility, and delegates the assault on the force which has to march the longest to reach its staging ground. OPERATIONS -43rd division (aphid) has been designated as the primary assault force - both divisions form into a thick column attacking through a roughly the same vector at SAINT CROISSANT - as indicated on map, there are some distance discrepancies to target between different parts of the advancing column that may need to be addressed by brigade commands, in order to maximize impact -the combined assault of both divisions should topple the town without much effort -43rd pivots to attack South at CLEMENCEAU, protected by BOIS DE BAGUETTE. The forest provides a good protection, and the town of C. combined with B. DE TIGRE itself limits the effective frontage where the French can deploy with useful LOSs. - 19th supports the assault with as many units as possible, while detaching a covering flank to protect SAINT CROISSANT for a short while -As the defenses of CLEMENCEAU crack under the weight of a combined Corps, the 19th pivots to the west, while 43rd proceeds to - Depending on the reaction of the French, the proceeding stages should see us envelop the area delineated by the black line, and launch a multipronged attack capable of reducing the French pocket and taking the primary objective at the end of the day. RISKS -Seeking confrontation with the enemy may drain our resources to a point where the second stage attack at our main objective becomes infeasible. However, since a scenario where attacking without pushing through enemy lines is unlikely based on predicted enemy placement, this plan, I think minimizes the threat of flanking fire, harassments etc. as long as it is executed swiftly. -Artillery placement needs to be decided  E: I thought each inch was 100 yards; the distance measurements (in meters) are therefore off, and need to be multiplied by 0.8 steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:02
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Tias posted:How far will the artillery shoot? Pasteur Ridge seems to make sense, but we shouldn't limber them up there if they can't fire far enough. Correct, which is another reason not to spread the corps til a point of contact can be determined, imho.
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Feb 10, 2017 11:38
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I know, what I posted is an alternate proposal to what has been floated in Roll 20. I think the primary proposal should get posted here as well, but I didn't make it so I don't want to pretend I'm an authority on what it entails.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:47
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I think the main thing is that we advance in as compact a shape as possible til we reach Croissant, and only then begin to fan out, if deemed necessary, or continue in one direction. That way we can easily pivot to face any challenge. If the French make a substantial push along the Western edge of the map to defeat the screen units left there, it will weaken their ability to defend our objective, and will hopefully just move them to a position where they will be surrounded from east, north and south (upon storming the positions they vacated) - if fighting at Clemenceau reaches conclusion fast enough that elements of one division can quickly move to reinforce the erstwhile screen. E: I'm only talking about the scenario I'm proposing, to avoid confusion. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 17:37
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Trin, it seems that the combat rules do not give any penalty to companies moving into the range of stationary defenders - both will fire with the same "initiative" based entirely on their side and no other factors, is that right?
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Feb 10, 2017 17:52
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Oh, thanks, that makes a lot of sense.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:26
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From Roll 20, expected lines of sight to passive targets from various points on the map. https://imgur.com/a/rJ8oe Horrible compression courtesy of Imgur.
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Feb 10, 2017 23:35
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Any feedback? My brigadiers, do you have a way you would prefer to be used so that I have something to disregard?
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Feb 11, 2017 12:03
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Tevery Best posted:Another matter: the spotter plane. 1) knowing where the greatest enemy concentration is is more important than hoping for specific, potentially totally misleading, information, especially if it gives us extra time to issue commands.
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Feb 11, 2017 14:57
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The point of attacking at Clemenceau would not be because of its strategic position for defenders, but to make the second stage attack as decisive as possible, cleaning up a flank of the North-South vector of approach to the final objective, and also allowing us a two-pronged assault at the Breakfast Ridge should it be heavily invested b the enemy. All in all, it should allow us to make use of the most of our assets in the offensive at all times. A straight up maneuver to Breakfast and an assault through there, while the other division waits at Croissant, would be arguably much faster in the best case scenario, but could end up much more vulnerable and potentially delayed as we would scramble for reinforcements.
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Feb 11, 2017 15:24
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I would argue to the contrary - trying to fight to reach a location with as little fighting as possible is going to entrap us, especially when it makes our lines longer, and gives the enemy displaced by our attacks a defended place to retreat, reform and pick a point to break our overextended positions. The French will also certainly receive reinforcements, just as we are liable to.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:16
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It is irrelevant in a vacuum, where we assume that the French are just going to stand there and do nothing. In any scenario where the crux of the game moves to fighting over Croissant (which would be a natural point of interest for both sides), it is FAR more relevant than Breakfast, and moving troops away from it would mean weakening our one must-have strategic position on the map, the capturing and maintaining of which is absolutely non-negotiable. Also the French being pushed away from Roadblock won't find an easy spot from which to retaliate, if they move to the west, they will end up as part of a pocket surrounded by our entire corps, and consequently reduced; moving to the east will separate the french force into two parts, and allow us to destroy them in detail. Retreating South to the bottom of the map would just delay their inevitable decision of pivoting to one of the sides on the west-east axis. Meanwhile attacking at Breakfast creates a long German line facing a continuous French sector in which all French forces can move freely and without much of a threat. In the worst case scenario of near all French troops sitting at Roadblock and dodging us to the east, we still win compared to attacking at Breakfast, because we end up with a stronger position at Croissant, possession of Breakfast, a much larger territorial gain in general, AND hopefully a bunch of dead Frenchies. For these reasons I maintain that Roadblock is important both for succeeding in our objectives, and managing the enemy force. As for Tiger Woods, I concede that it is an issue, but based on what I understand about rules, -woods are only useful for troops stationed at the very edge of them - if they for some reason end up with plenty of troops placed inside of the woods, it would be great for us, as they would have to move them forward to the edge of the forest to make them eligible for attacks, which would negate all their defensive bonuses, and also probably force them to actually charge out of the forest into the open. -we can determine if they have men there based on whether we see troops elsewhere. a brigade stationed in the woods can be countered with a similar force of our own skirting the woods and waiting for the French to make a move, and hopefully, if rules work as intended, the standoff would end up with an advantage to our side, as we won't be under pressure to break out -therefore I consider it to be a manageable obstacle steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 00:28
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When we deploy, can deployment orders contain some sort of sequence of commands, like Germans had drilled for IRL? Like instead of just saying deploy in march order, move along the road, make an order like "deploy, follow road, at this crossroad re-deploy into battle formation, then charge in this direction, unless you see enemy elsewhere"? (If yes, I understand that changing these drilled orders would require communication between brigades and divisional HQs, so that's not an issue)
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Feb 12, 2017 13:42
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19TH DIVISION - DEPLOYMENT ORDERS Gentlemen, I will outline our role in this coming triumph. BRIGADIERS, PLEASE SELECT WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE YOUR UNITS TO PARTICIPATE BASED ON INFORMATION BELOW, OUR INITIAL ORDERS WILL DIVIDE OUR DIVISION INTO TWO COLUMNS, WHICH WILL DETERMINE YOUR POSITION IN STAGE 2!  As you can see, we are going to march down the NAINVILLE ROAD. Afterwards we shall split into two forces. COLUMN 1: - Orient yourselves to face CROISSANT, and reform into a battle formation outside the outlined firing range from the town, with contingency orders in case you encounter enemy vanguard ahead of reaching the town (unlikely?). I'd prefer it if you deployed within the blue box - formations with some depth are preferred to very wide, but thin lines. Employ cavalry scouting at your liberty. - You will support the 43rd division in its assault, if necessary. I'd like to ask Herr aphid for his marching distances prior to reaching the shooting perimeter of CROISSANT, so we can synchronize our attacks to proceed simultaneously -Following the fall of Croissant, you shall pivot to the lower blue box, and assume positions in its western half. COLUMN 2: - As you march, deploy cavalry scouts to the marked position at Baguende. Propose the most efficient path at your will. - You will not join the fighting at Croissant unless necessary. - Instead, move to assume positions in the eastern half of our final deployment box. AFTER STAGE ONE: -We will support the 43rd in its assault by securing its flanks and closing up avenues of French tactical redeployment. This will mean attacking either through the opening south of Croissant, or against the Clemenceau town, depending on available information about enemy disposition). -Depending on the COLUMN in which a brigade deployed, it can therefore expect different levels of engagement in stage 2 - e.g. in case of heavy fighting in the west, COLUMN 1 will probably be first to enter into a firefight. ADDITIONAL TASKS FOR BRIGADIERS: - As I said, pick the column where you want to be deployed. First come, first serve. Please coordinate with your partner within your column about your particular placement within your zones. - COLUMN 1 should be given priority in entering the road, they have more stuff to do ASAP - Unless Corps command intervenes, I will allow you to draft your own artillery placement, and post it for approval. (I'm doing this to give you something to play with, rather than out of laziness, so please ask for assistance if you need anything). DIVISIONAL RESERVES ALLOCATION COLUMN 1: - 1 cavalry - 1 engineer - 1 cavalry MG - 1 cavalry artillery - 6 field gun batteries - 4 10 cm batteries COLUMN 2: - 2 cavalry - 6 field gun batteries - 2 engineers IN CASE OF QUARRELS AMONG BRIGADIERS FOR CONTROL OF THESE ASSETS, I'LL MAKE THE FINAL DECISION. HQ ORDERS Move at the tail of the division to be provisionally stationed inside Nainville (or start there, if possible). BRIGADES - FINAL ALLOCATION COLUMN 1: - The Sandman - 1 cavalry, 1 horse artillery, 1 horse MG, 1 engineer, 3 field guns, 2 10 cm guns - Ikasuhito - 3 field guns, 2 10 cm guns COLUMN 2: -NastyToes - 1 cavalry, 1 engineer, 3 field guns -Covski - 1 cavalry, 1 engineer, 3 field guns steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 21:17
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NastyToes posted:I'd like 14th brigade to join column 2 and take up positions in the outskirts of Baguette. Covski posted:16th brigade will join column 2. It's probably better to wait for Trin's updated guide before I go more into specifics, unless there is something division command needs to know right now? The only thing I need to know is who will take care of your column's assets, and you seem to be on top of that.
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Feb 13, 2017 08:48
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Something that came up in Roll 20, if a brigade has a scouting company of cavalry that is outside the BHQ range and spots an enemy unit, is the BHQ eligible for requesting new orders based on that only if the cavalry scouts first move inside the command range?
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Feb 13, 2017 08:54
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Crazycryodude posted:I still don't think we're accounting enough for the possibility that the frogs are gonna enter the map from the south-east instead of the south-west. I'll admit my checking up on the Roll20 has been spotty at best, but it doesn't look like we have much of a contingency for if that happens. I get that the worst case is them spawning right on top of our objective in the SW and it makes sense to plan for the worst case, but we're taking it as almost a given that that's what's going to happen. I'm worried that they're gonna come out of nowhere and just rip our flank to shreds because our plan for them spawning on the same side as us is basically "meh, it's probably not gonna happen so don't worry too much". We need to capture Croissant. Afterwards our divisions will be in a compact enough formation to react to the enemy even if he comes from an unexpected angle. Hell, personally I don't care if they get the whole eastern / western half of the map via some tactical trickery, as long as our defense of Croissant is robust and we maintain some ties with the northern edge of the map - that is the thing that matters. Whoever controls C. controls the map.
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Feb 13, 2017 10:44
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Perestroika posted:Alright, in the process of nailing down the orders, a few questions have popped up: You are trying to set up positions at the same place as the 19th division, including our artillery placements. The 43rd should stay on the other side of that NE road, I think. Also the line you have outlined is very close to the town, if you march there hoping to switch to combat formation at the line, you will get shredded by any defenders.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:22
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PLEASE PROVIDE BASIC ORDERS ASAP SO WE CAN HAMMER OUT INSTANCES OF OVERLAP AND SUCH
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Feb 13, 2017 19:15
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Note about scouting for brigades: Scouts can only relay messages to their HQ if they can clearly see the HQ or another company of their brigade.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:40
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HEY GAIL posted:if i encounter resistance, i am the flank anchor. if i don't, i'm the reserve and you get me where i am needed Just a heads up, battle order isn't really a thing, your troops are only marching when they are on a road, as soon as they leave a road, they automatically regroup into the formation you picked for them, which will take them some time. So you should provide a spot where they should reform in your detailed drawing. Also I think it would be useful to sketch out how far away from the road individual players want to move, so that everybody doesn't pick the same shortest path. VVVVV Sandman has heroically volunteered to attack on his own, since the combined frontage of our two divisions converging at Croissant is too narrow to support more brigades at once. He has also requested additional artillery from the reserves. Therefore Ikasuhito, if you are reading this, please prepare to set up shop behind him, to come to his aid should his troops collapse. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 23:15
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The Sandman posted:EDIT: While your faith in me is appreciated, I was figuring that Perestroika's brigade from the 43rd would be attacking the town from the north. Oh yeah, I meant on your own from our division.
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Feb 13, 2017 23:42
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Covski posted:*Very* preliminary plan for 16th Brigade.  This will hopefully give you an idea of how much space a very compact infantry square takes up. Also I'd prefer it if you kept your arty, since if we lost a brigade attacking with all the goodies attached to it, they would be gone. Possible arty positions within the range of Croissant centre are marked in red.
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Feb 14, 2017 08:48
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Just one more thing *points cigar at commanders* From the blue point we can see The Happening-s at the road leading to Clemenceau. From the green point, plenty of what is going on below our objective. Commanders with no immediate concerns, consider keeping a company there, tia. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 10:03
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I would think so, being that far east would basically obviate the need for a scout on that ridge. I expect that you should fit just east of the woods, especially if you shorten your line a bit. Right now I think our job as a division is to really condense around Croissant to make it as easy as possible to pivot in whichever direction we may need in the next stage. You should have extra space from having options at the northern side of the road, unlike your neighbor. Please try not to have any guys past the midpoint of that small forest north of the road Also could you please sent a company to one (or both) of the observation spots I mentioned? I expect - one brigade curving to the south of Croissant - one brigade touching it to the east - one brigade behind the woods - one brigade just next to it, possibly also partially in the woods Remember, long lines are of any use only if we can fit them where we need them. Sorry if I'm being too restrictive. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 08:24
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Do I need a map for my HQ, or is saying "follow the road til you reach town" good enough?
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Feb 15, 2017 11:18
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Short message for Ikasuhito - please include a conditional that if you see no enemy presence at Croissant, you will set up shop in the space directly between the town and Baguette woods.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:49
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As somebody who is time zone illiterate, how much time is left? 1. How do you feel the planning for this battle has gone, in general? We did our best given the limited information available, and I think the plan we made gives us badly needed tactical adaptability, which is the most important thing in a fog of war scenario like this. 2. How confident are you in the plans and orders that you personally have laid for this battle? See above. 3. How confident are you in fulfilling the various objectives set by the Army Commander? lol, like a give a poo poo. Croissant is the only thing that's on my radar now, and if we defeat the French in battle, then I may consider looking at the other objectives. 4. Is there any one aspect of the battle that seems to you will be most critical, on which success or failure is most likely to turn? Saint Croissant controls the road system, and the center of the map, though it is not is a good position, observation wise. I think any team with offensive objectives of any sort will have to tackle that town. 5. Thinking optimistically, what do you think the likely result of the battle will be? Us repelling a French attack that comes after we had already regrouped around our first objective. 6. Thinking pessimistically, what do you think the likely result of the battle will be? A grind to remove entrenched Frenchmen from southern ridges.
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Feb 16, 2017 08:15
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Hey, 43rd division, looks like we won't be able to make it to the Saint Croissant party, give my regards to Francois. Ok, the course of action seems obvious. The French have move faster than I would have anticipated, but now we still have an opportunity to reform into battle formations, the question is how. Regarding division rule eligibility, I assume brigades see enemy, and have dispatched their runners already? steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 08:14
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Crazycryodude posted:The problem is we can't change our orders for another turn or two, so everyone'll keep following their pre-battle orders up until ~Turn 6 probably, which puts us mostly in/west of Croissant for the 43rd and in Baguette for the 19th. Now, if aphid can get orders to us quickly the 43rd can basically just keep marching straight for Quatrepouts to 1) secure our second objective and 2) contain the French in their corner. This is exactly the kind of situation I wanted to include a "just keep going for Q" conditional for, but no it's all "dig in and wait for further orders" Well, you should have advocated for it more vigorously. Anyway, we talked this through at Roll 20 many times, so it isn't ecxactly an unexpected development, and it's one I would argue my plans have been designed to also cover by trying to maintain maximum cohesion, but I have at the same time operated under the assumption that units won't blindly march on if encountering an enemy in sight, which would make such conditionals kinda moot, but if I'm wrong, I will freely admit to loving up. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 08:20
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Trin Tragula posted:Which one of you figured out the entirely mean and sneaky trick that I appear to have played on you several days ago? Give them a medal and listen next time. Only thing wrong was that you assumed I would only be cackling out loud now, when it's all going off, instead of while watching you plan. Wheeze of the week! The only thing wrong, and the only thing that is incongruous with our plans is that they got across half the map and reformed into battlelines in the time we took just to enter the map. There's literally nothing I could have done to prevent this aside from digging in the second my troops spawned. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 08:25
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In that case, I don't understand why I can't send my own runners, since I see enemy and am stationary. Is it because I'm in town?
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 13:19
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I have no idea what is going on.
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Feb 17, 2017 20:51
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