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Saros posted:Criticizing a known competent brigade commander over what he already knows and can do nothing about. Saros posted:Ill informed Light harrassing fire on another brigadier. It's not even correct, their guns moving instead of supporting is the best possible result! This is starting to get in my grill, Saros. It's everyone's right to discuss tactics but you in particular need to spend more time analysing enemy behaviour and the consequences of your own proposals before you post a critique other peoples orders. I've probably taken more suggestions of yours on board than anyone else's, but I'm sick of reading posts where you're putting monsters under the bed with apparently zero thought on how probable it all is. Soon you are going to have the division that will make the difference between doing OK and winning big. The rest of the team including myself will be effectively working to support you. I expect you to lift your game with good risk analysis and carefully considered, well crafted orders. You will also have responsibility for a bunch of brigadiers that you will need to both advise and take proposals from. Do it properly. In the GM's much more blunt words: Trin Tragula posted:Look to your front! Get your own poo poo straight before you go jumping into other people's ponds with well-meaning advice.
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Apr 7, 2017 22:12
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Kev, Artillery is a tricky beast. I'm in agreement with the vast majority of your post too. The problem comes when the enemy calls for supporting fire - is it worth more to suppress the infantry or the artillery? We've compromised here by concentrating fire on the infantry first, hoping to permanently reduce their strength to make our boys' job easier. Then we're aiming to hit the bad guys' guns and reduce their support fire since that's the only way to stop their contribution. Don't forget that the southern battery is on call for support too and should suppress the infantry trenches. This relatively minor attack is designed to limit casualties, our brigades will retreat if things go wrong. It will serve to inform our later attacks as well.  a whole lot of privates, corporals and adjutants, at least you died in the name of science!
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Apr 7, 2017 22:47
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oystertoadfish posted:it seems like we're not worried about the gap in our FdE line for this turn - i guess we have spotting there. seems like we're going with status quo in the FdE and trying to bloody the enemy's nose while we're status quoing. i hope our troops make it back to where they started at the end of this update! This is an interesting point - we're playing a bluff there at the moment. If the enemy has decided to attack here this turn, we're going to be scrambling to kick them out. But the enemy has a perfectly reasonable defensive line and he's just seen a disasterous single brigade attack. We've just seen the his artillery moved as well which is hardly something you do right before an attack. So I think it's a reasonable bluff. We will, of course, do our best to re fill the hole before he calls it.
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Apr 7, 2017 22:59
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One last thing before the update, this is what we have on the sheet for the new division. Any changes to make? Definitely want to have it sorted by the time the next update happens. 1st (Guards) Reserve Infantry Division "Die Wacht am Rhein" Saros - OTF temporary command "A" "B" OTF Cokerpilot? "C" "D" Ikasuhito Added Space
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Apr 7, 2017 23:13
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That's exactly the idea. It might not even be necessary depending on the timing
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Apr 8, 2017 00:14
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Added Space posted:While I'm being angry, I'd like to congratulate Jaguars for sticking one brigade out on a branch and only getting it half-killed while accomplishing nothing. Progress! I have to laugh because otherwise I'd cry  I would say that the skirmishes with the 54th early this morning alerted the enemy to our prescence and they realized their position was untenable. They knew the guns were in the area and ordered a fire mission that overlapped the southern part of the gunline. Smart of them, rather frustrating for us. Nevermore214 posted:Finally read up to current in this thread; avoided the Entente and Observers thread. Is it too late to sign up for any openings in command (even at bottom of the list) or to be a Staff Officer? I'm sure we can find something for you to do. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 07:23
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There was a spotter plane over the Ferme Intuille at 1000 this morning. At that point, the guns were in their old position but they were limbering up to move the next turn and that point would have been conveyed to the British, we've received similar comments. Not a great leap from there to predicting movement forward.
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Apr 8, 2017 08:36
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Enemy Situation What did we learn about the enemy from Von Jaguars' Folly? Not a loving lot. We were able to confirm the presence of a brigade in the Bois De Blob. I certainly didn't expect either set of trenches to be vacant. At first I believed that the enemy vacated their trenches with suspicious timing, but one simpler explanation is that the units encountered were pickets, a tactic that both sides have been using. Where are they? I have to work on the terms that we have rough parity to the enemy, I.E. they have fielded 8 brigades. The scout forces on both sides are ancient history and need not concern us. Of the 8, we have killed two, irreparably shattered another, spotted one in the Foret de Effyaders and one on the north side of the Bois de Blob. One more is very likely in the large center trench to form a continuous front line. That leaves two unknowns. Given a front line running Foret de Effyaders-Depression-Gun line-N. Bois de Blob, it's practically certain that one controls the southern end of the line, in a position that controls the southern road.  That leaves one more brigade and this one's location is difficult. First, where it's not: Anywhere in the FdE, there's no room for it. West of the FdE is under Kevz' observation. Not in the center of the enemy line, we just saw most of that. There's plenty of room for one more at the south end of the enemy line, as others have observed, they could even have crossed the stream. They could simply be in reserve back from the lines a bit. What are they going to do? There are some things we can be certain of. They'll shell what brigades they know the locations for. At the moment, that's the 54th and 53rd. They've also got a reasonable fix on the north artillery brigade. The most dangerous course of action would be to take the three brigades we aren't certain of and attack where we are weakest, is the south. But that would compromise the front lines and an attack by only one or two brigades would be more likely. Most likely course of action. Harder. Simplest would be sit back and light up a pipe and wait for us. Tweak the front lines and create backup trenches. They'll probably attempt to get rid of Kevz brigade now that they know about it. Artillery fire as mentioned. An attack in the middle is unlikely to work for various reasons. They don't appear to have the resources to attack at the top, although they could try. Orders to come once I've got some sleep - In the meantime, Saros has to decide on the basic course of action for his division so that we can use this update to prepare for it's arrival. At the moment I lean toward strengthening the lines with it and claiming no man's land in the south, this will effectively end the game unless the british have an brain aneurysm and perform a general attack. A bit supine, maybe, we aren't a hell of a lot better than a draw in my mind, but clearly the sensible thing to do. But I could be persuaded to break the lines with it if Saros and others want to and if a weak point can be found. All that needs to be decided now is to defend, or to attack at________ Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 11:05
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We've fielded 136 companies of foot troops. If the BEF has 8 brigades they had 144, if only 6, 108 companies. Since we know that historically german divisions were about 500 men less, (the difference would probably be equivalent to about 2-4 companies per division in this game), I think the eight brigade model is more likely. I think this turn will focus southward, if the enemy can be found we can work out a lot from his dispositions. In a six brigade model, there is only one more brigade to be found and that would indicate a hole in their line somewhere. wouldn't that be nice! But it'll remain a secondary possibility to me unless we can prove otherwise. Nevermore, I skimmed your findings and conclusions and there's a couple of things I spotted, we know for sure there are two brigades of guns on the field because we did see them both, and we're fairly sure that they aren't within 24" of kev's brigade because they'd be spotted. However, your recommendations are still valid
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Apr 8, 2017 21:36
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Lets see. We got counterfired on the first turn of the update. BEF Guns #1 was responsible because BEF guns #2 was known to be on the move. They fired for 4 turns then switched to fire against the 54th in the center. Per Trin's comment on turn 30, Our fire missions operated as planned (less our gun casualties ofc). They started counter-battery fire missions on turn 27 and continued. All the surviving guns were just in range of the near BEF trench, so they had targets. On turn 28 we saw their guns and every one of them was unhurt. Turn 29 they fired and we counterbatteried but no picture of them was given so presumably their situation was still the same. Turn 30 saw more fire on their guns but we moved away and didn't see the result. They can't see any of our guns, although if they figured to move their fire mission north to cover the rest of the ground in that little area between the stream and the forest that could be bad for our guns, although at least they're in trenches now. However they know locations for two other brigades and might bombard them instead. Counter battery isn't hard, all we have to do is set a fire mission on their trenches. My fuckup with the guns has left us with mostly medium cannons though, so it would be weaker than otherwise. If I had to do it, I'd hit the front trench for the whole update with the hope that enough firemissions will eventually hit kill all the guns located there. Their guns might move away while we're doing it, but my hunch is that they will stay and use the opportunity to hit the 54th again. They can't see it, but it's reasonable for it to still be there. OTF, I've been trying to figure out why their brigades appeared where they did for a while, and I think they have a reinforcement point at the south end of the road. If it had been in the north, the enemy would have got got the FdE first and we would have run into static defenses or been fighting the BEF infantry from the outside in. The battle of the Blob happened at about the same time as we got our first infantry coming in, IIRC, so that's perhaps the more likely reinforcement point. ed: Kev, I simulposted with you; this is referring to the two posts above. editedit oh poo poo, missed a whole discussion. was originally replying to OTF and steinrokkan Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 00:27
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I think that if the campaign continues through the war, it'll get more and more scientific as people learn the lessons of the past. A 1915 or a somme situation will be all trenches all the time and extremely hard to play. I liked the runner system too. It was counter-intuitive until you realized that it represents less the flow of orders and more the back and forth between HQs with scraps of information about where the enemy was spotted, where friendly brigades have reached, all the stuff a brigadier on the ground needs when they make their decisions. And the result was truly excellent at replicating the way that WWII units tended to move and react, I think. I see Saros' brigade had a turn in the open before the guns responded. Perhaps from that we can infer that the brigade we saw runs along the north side of the Bois de Blob, with brigade command in the center. Most weren't seen because they didn't have the range to reveal themselves. The command would then be good enough to allow a fast response.
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Apr 9, 2017 01:01
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OK. A moment ago I was about to make a joke about plans involving washing clothes, weeding the garden, planning some dinners and going on a bushwalk with friends. A text has just come through to me that the response to the edgecumbe flooding is mobilizing and as soon as I can confirm it , I'm getting ready to go. Your're going to need a sublimely ridiculous fourth new corps commander and a replacement as division commander of the 26th. Nevermore, keep working on the intel picture, try and condense it a bit to make it more readable. You should be able to land a brigade somewhere as well. Thus, what I advise is:  *Command Structure* *Roll20 table* *Pre-turn checklist* *Travel times* *Movement, cover and spotting* *Firing and combat* *Firing demo* *Billy bonus* *Command and Control* *Night rules* *Writing orders including standing orders* *Relationship between standing orders and conditionals *Example orders* *Brigades, Fatigue, New terrain, indirect fire, engineer times, new hill spotting* *Trenches and terrain* Arrows! Formations! Conditionals! Standing Orders!  IV Corps orders1st Guards division is due just after the end of this update. It will take up defensive positions in the center of the line, leaving the 40th to cover a reduced frontage at the very south and the 26th will consolidate in the FdE All units: Keep your brigade commanders alive. That's not saying some special formation with them way back or something, thats don't do anything foolish that risks a brigade. Keep them until we can get replacement companies in the morning. Even a fatigued brigade can fill in on defence, freeing up fresh units. 40th Div: Keep alive, you may scout the area up to the ford if you judge that reasonable. I feel any attack coming is most likely to be down south, so be on your guard. 26th Div: try link up a line centered around Steinrokkan's brigade. Assess the risk of indirect on Kevz' and Saros' brigade. Moving out of the trenches and reoccupying at night is a possibility. So is sticking it out. Steinrokkans brigade should be able to take anything they throw at us. Use fathis' to fill a hole somewhere. Estimated threat is a two brigade attack, a third is possible but unlikely. Artillery: You could counterbattery the guns from last turn or move to the end of the trenches occupied by the 54th last night to avoid indirect fire. Others are going to have to continue this discussion. Engineers - keep doing what you've been doing all along, making defending brigades more powerful by placing wire and trenches. Generalleutnant (Acting reservist private) Jaguars! out. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 03:00
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Yeah, hopefully it's the army giving four hours notice to something that happened two days ago and not some new emergency situation, news hasn't reported anything and they're already in the area.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:24
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Well, that was a gently caress around. Sat in the (closed) garrison bar for a few hours until eventually it was confirmed that they only needed a few people to fill out the numbers. Lost an afternoon but it doesn't gently caress up my week and I get about $50 plus a meal allowance. Command crisis over, I guess. I'll see about getting some more detailed orders out for the 26th division. Nevermore, I'm pretty sure one enemy cav bde was routed in front of stethoscope (routed units are removed from the map permanently) and one was destroyed by artillery fire on the western outskirts of FdE. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 10:14
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Orders for 26th Division 51st: I don't think there's any better position for your brigade, Steinrokkan. It dominates most of the forest. Still, if you want to make small adjustments, you can. 52nd: Take up positions north of Steinrokkan. 53rd: I'm sure the BEF would like to attack you but I'm not sure they have the resources to do anything other than a suicide attack. I'm not sure about the guns that could bombard you, there's no motive for them to have moved the guns locally, what would a repositioning achieve. Still, shelling by heavy guns is a possibility, and if you think you would be safer by moving them, you should be able to get away eastward without being observed now that you've killed their northmost guard. Note that the BEF will template their fire missions for a full sized brigade so the forest is a danger zone for a few inches east. If you want me to make the decision, that I should be checking in on the thread regularly tomorrow. 54th: I can't predict whether the BEF will fire on you or go after the last of the guns. I'm inclined to be prudent and send you via the trenches to a position just above that wire on Steinrokkan's east flank. However, if you stay in your present trenches, that's OK too. Nevermore214 posted:I know it disappeared after some fighting (it was in some trenches right?) but did we get real confirmation on that 2nd Cav? I may have missed something, I was exhausted at the time I re-read the mission. They bite it on day 2, 1800. last bit shown. link Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 11:46
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Trin Tragula posted:
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Apr 9, 2017 12:17
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Sniper, As I see it, you have two choices for that artillery brigade: move it north into the next trench or couterfire the enemy position for the whole update. Moving into the next trenches is a prudent move that will preserve your guns. You might even get to keep that heavy howitzer which will be handy. While it puts offensive support out of the question, it's an excellent support position for the units in FdE. Counterfiring the enemy is of course risky. They might hit your trenches and cause further casualties or even eliminate your gun line. But it allows you to fire at the last known gun position. If you take this option, smash the enemy forward trench for the whole update. Somehow I missed that more guns are due to arrive and I was definitely leaning toward evasive action. With more guns available, it might be worth it to take the risk. Couterfire opportunities are extremely hard to come by. And of course, next turn you'll have to move as they counter-counter battery. Don't forget, you aren't the only target out there. I'm hoping they will react to the discovery of Kevz brigade and pull resources from whatever they're planning next, and they might hit Saros' trenches too. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 21:34
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Might be better to break off at a low level and preserve your cadre than fight to the death. Final stands usually don't achieve much as the enemy gangs up on the last puny remnants.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:41
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aphid_licker posted:Why not wait for the new division before advancing? That way the whole advance doesn't evaporate at the first sign of trouble, leaving us pantsless. Added Space posted:I'm not so much advancing as sweeping the area. Our best chance to stop any enemy doing another crossing is at the fords, so if we defend there we're in a much better place then if we give them room to assemble on the east bank. My orders were, above all, to keep brigades alive so they can receive reinforcements. Scouting was added as a secondary mission that can only be done in service of the first one. In chain of command terms I don't want this to be a strict military style hierarchy because it sucks to be the guy on the bottom, but I expect you to consider your div commanders concerns, even when he hasn't issued any orders. I'm not going to say whether the scouting mission goes ahead or not, that's down to you guys to reach an agreement. Added Space, the enemy's capabilities and limitations must always be considered to issue good orders. Who is he and what will he do? Narrow it down. Will there be a brigade in your area of responsibility? Maybe. Where is it? Could be anywhere from the back of the bois de blob to already over the ford. Will it attack or defend? I try provide my thoughts in the orders, if you need more guidance then see all the intel navel gazing we've been doing recently. In the case of your current orders, what happens if he crosses the ford and meets you coming the other way? If your brigade in it's finished positions gets attacked by a 17 man BEF brigade, will you fufill the primary mission? ***** Steinrokkan, I've seen your post but dealing with all the issues that're coming up is starting to do my head in. I'll consider it and check back later. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 23:30
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Ok, that's a long chain of reasoning, but point taken. Note that moving north will put our guns out of range of guns #1. Guns number 2 didn't join in on the shelling last time despite plenty of time to do so, so I'm inclined to think they're out of range as well. I don't get why they moved them, but they did, and a quick reposition would have seen supporting fire from them. If they moved to that trench at the back then they're out of range.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:34
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About 12 hours to go, get your orders in.
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Apr 10, 2017 04:07
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back here
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Apr 10, 2017 05:17
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IV Corps 40th Saxons 86th 88th 26th Division 51st 52nd 53rd 54th no change. but subject to change IYKWIM Artillery Engineers - subject to change Keep getting orders in, issue emergency ones if we're getting close to time. Refer to divisional orders if nothing issued. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 13:22
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Added Space, I think Saros is probably out of comms for the moment, could you do the engineers and I'll make a call about the 54th E: The 54th can stay and provide spotting, I don't want anyone moving into that trench unnoticed. I'm going to rely on the automatic breakoff to disengage them if they get bombarded or attacked. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 13:43
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ok sweet
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Apr 10, 2017 13:51
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Engineers North engineer to entrench the 10cm howitzer, then provide wire immediately to the west of the 51st brigade, starting from the bde's southern corner. Middle engineer to wire from 5" SW of the Taillis douche and work northward. South engineer to continue the trenches, then emplace wire 4" to the west of the trenches. If an enemy is sighted, engineers are to retreat in the opposite direction immediately. Sorry for the lack of detail, it's 1AM and I was already in sleep deficit. If anyone wants to override or provide pics then please do so cause my judgement is prob horrible right now. Ditto 54th brigade Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 14:08
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Serves him right making me feel solidarity with General Haig  Now I'm off to make some diary entries about how bad I feel for all those soldiers
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Apr 14, 2017 00:43
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This is a possibility, altough I had the impression before that the majority of commanders were more interested in going defensive and winding down the game. Better hope that second brigade down south doesn't get jumped on the move because a plan like that is predicated on having a solid base to prevent the enemy disrupting your plans. Enemy support fire will hinder our progress as well.
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Apr 17, 2017 11:27
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Any reason to keep this alive any longer? I'm gonna go check out the enemy/observer threads tomorrow.
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May 22, 2017 01:07
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