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Willing to take any position available.
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Feb 9, 2017 18:21
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steinrokkan posted:I would argue to the contrary - trying to fight to reach a location with as little fighting as possible is going to entrap us, especially when it makes our lines longer, and gives the enemy displaced by our attacks a defended place to retreat, reform and pick a point to break our overextended positions. The French will also certainly receive reinforcements, just as we are liable to. They're going to have that anyway, unless you assume that they won't retreat onto Dejeuner Ridge should we drive them from Roadblock Heights. Furthermore, your plan would require us to clear Tigre Bois, which will take time and manpower that can't be used to advance on our actual objective. Additionally, we have no way of knowing how many troops the French have in Tigre Bois without either sweeping the entire forest, provoking every unit hidden there into firing and thus revealing our position, or accounting for the entirety of the French forces based on TOE of their observed largest formation elsewhere. I would much rather render that position irrelevant by not attacking it in the first place.
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Feb 11, 2017 23:54
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Trin, a question of vital importance: in the event that we secure the entirety of the railroad between Croissants and the northern map edge, would it be possible for our hypothetical reinforcements (both the army-level reserve that we can request in the battle and the ones that show up to win the game if we let Corps Command know we've taken Quatrepouts) to use the railroad and arrive in Croissants rather than having to march in from a map edge? And if the answer is "no", would it change if we could ensure there was no enemy artillery in firing range of that stretch of railroad? Or no enemy artillery and no enemy MGs? Or just no enemy forces in general? EDIT: I think we should tell the French that it was thoughtful of them to put pickelhaubes on their wives before sharing their candid photographs, but when compared to the stories our grandfathers told us about their grandmothers it's clear that the quality of French women has steeply declined, and we should hope for a commensurate decrease in their hourly rates. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 01:22
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I request that the 13th Brigade be placed in Column 1, Herr Steinrokkan. More detailed orders to follow later.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:15
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Them entering the map from the southeast is actually better for us, because under those circumstances I believe we reach Croissants before they do. Furthermore, the planned positions for 19th Division are well-placed to deal with any French move from that area.
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Feb 13, 2017 04:45
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Still working out my orders in roll20, but just wanted to state that I intend the 13th to take point in attacking Croissants from the east. EDIT: While your faith in me is appreciated, I was figuring that Perestroika's brigade from the 43rd would be attacking the town from the north. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 23:29
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We should probably wait to place barbed wire until after nightfall.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:08
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19th Division, 13th Brigade ("The Baker's Dozens") Orders Alright men, here's how we're going to do this. First, the cavalry. Listen up, because this is is important. Enter the map along with your machine gun and arse hortillery as shown in the following image, which should take two full turns and part of a third:  Once there, you are to proceed as follows. 1) Enter the village of Saint Croissant  2a) Should you encounter enemy units, and not be immediately gunned down, retreat your company into Baguette next turn. The MG and hortillery will remain in the Outskirts of Baguette and not fire until fired upon or ordered to in a later step of the overall plan. 2b) If by some miracle Saint Croissant is empty, continue through town to the following location in the southern Outskirts:  3) Should the cavalry accomplish this, the MG is to follow as per this image:  This should be occurring on turn 3 as well. 4) At the start of Turn 4, the cavalry in the Outskirts dismounts. Then, if and only if they spot Frenchmen marching on a direct course towards Saint Croissant and within 8" of themselves, they are to open fire, supported by the MG in Saint Croissant and the artillery in the western Outskirts of Baguette. 5a) On Turn 5, should they have fired upon Frenchmen in Turn 4, the cavalry is to pull back as follows, with the MG taking up position in the Outskirts of Baguette and the cavalry in the Outskirts of Saint Croissant:  5b) If they did not fire on any Frenchmen in Turn 4, remain in position. If Frenchmen are spotted as per Step 4, fire as per that step. 6a) On Turn 6, the cavalry remounts, then falls back into the Outskirts of Baguette, while the MG moves into Baguette proper, as in this image:  6b) If the cavalry fired on Frenchmen in Turn 5 as per step 5b, move as per step 5a. 6c) If they did not fire on Frenchmen in Turn 5, continue to follow orders as per step 4. Now, for the infantry. 1) Enter the map in March Order, proceeding for the first three turns as follows:  From this point, your movements will diverge depending on what happens to the cavalry. 2a) If the cavalry was fired upon or otherwise repulsed by French troops while attempting to enter Saint Croissant, leave the road on turn 4 and shake out into Battle Order as per the following diagram:  2b) If the cavalry has entered Saint Croissant unopposed, continue in March Order for another turn to reach Baguette: 3a) Following 2a, move a full 8" on turn 5 in the following direction, to reach the position and formation that will be depicted in Step 4a:  3b) If the cavalry fired upon French troops south of Saint Croissant on Turn 4, shake out into Battle Order as shown below on Turn 5, with the cavalry MG and hortillery moving as needed:  Guns are to unlimber this turn if allowed. 3c) If the cavalry is still unmolested south of Saint Croissant, Ikasuhito's three 7.7cm guns will be returned to his command at the start of Turn 5. The brigade is to continue in March Order for Turns 5, 6 and 7 as per the map below:  It will then assume final positions in Battle Order as per the image below and go into Defensive Stance, with the guns unlimbering:  The Engineer will begin entrenching on my left flank and proceed as per the following arrow, with MGs shifting position as needed to allow him to continue digging:  4a) On Turn 6, the brigade is to advance 4" as per the following diagram and open fire on any Frenchmen within range:  The guns are to unlimber this turn. Please refer to the map in Step 5a for the actual position of the northern howitzer, as one of my staff seems to have nudged it onto its neighboring battery. The cavalry MG and arse hortillery should open fire at this time. 4b) If not able to do so during Turn 5, the guns unlimber now. The rest of the brigade advances 4" as per the line marked "1." on the below map and opens fire on any Frenchmen within range:  The cavalry MG and arse hortillery should open fire at this time. 5a) On Turn 7, the infantry is to launch a bayonet charge the remaining 8" into Saint Croissant as per the map below, supported by the brigade's MGs and artillery:  5b) On Turn 7, the infantry is to launch a bayonet charge the remaining 8" into Saint Croissant as per the arrow marked "2." on the map below, supported by the brigade's MGs and artillery: 6) The infantry is to clear Saint Croissant. If no more than 1/3 of the infantry companies are lost in the assault, they are to pursue any retreating Frenchmen only as far as necessary to set up the positions in the map below, the same as in step 3c: Missing infantry companies are to be removed from the formation with the following priority: the company immediately adjacent to the southern 10cm howitzer, the northernmost company in cover at Fraise-Champs, the easternmost company in cover at Fraise-Champs, and the second-northernmost company in cover at Fraise-Champs. If more than 1/3 of the infantry companies are lost in the assault, the brigade is to hold in place in the town until the 79th Brigade has come up, then withdraw to the immediate northeast of Saint Croissant and await further orders. 7) Rename Saint Croissant to Sankt Kipferl. Addenda: 1) In the event that Steps 2a or 3b trigger, the engineer company is to requisition barbed wire from the Ferme de Beurre. If step 3c triggers, the engineer is to requisition barbed wire from Fraise-Champs once it finishes digging the trench line to the eastern edge of Fraise-Champs. In either instance, he is to ensure that he does not interfere with the field of fire of any of the artillery. 2) In the event that Step 3c triggers but Frenchmen are encountered en route to the final positions, assume Battle Order as per Step 3b, facing the Frenchmen. Advance in 4" increments with MG and artillery support until the final positions as per Steps 3c/6 have been reached, then switch to Defensive Stance and await further orders. Standing Orders: When sighting an enemy on Attack stance: Keep moving along original path When attacking the enemy: Launch a Bayonet Charge/Cavalry Charge When an enemy company Breaks Off or Retreats Suppressed: Pursue only when indicated in specific orders Break Off automatically when: On Attack Stance, 2/3 casualties are taken. On Defense Stance, fight to the last man. I believe that should be everything. ...oh, wait, one more thing. Any instance of "Frenchmen" in the above orders should be considered to also include Belgians, British, Luxembourgers or any other members of the motley alliance arrayed against the will of our Kaiser. If you believe otherwise, you get to lead the charge and personally confirm the enemy's nationality. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 03:48
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As the Baker's Dozens march towards battle, their commander leads them in a selection of military tunes, the reason for his choices known only to him...Trin Tragula posted:1. How do you feel the planning for this battle has gone, in general? quote:2. How confident are you in the plans and orders that you personally have laid for this battle? quote:3. How confident are you in fulfilling the various objectives set by the Army Commander? quote:4. Is there any one aspect of the battle that seems to you will be most critical, on which success or failure is most likely to turn? quote:5. Thinking optimistically, what do you think the likely result of the battle will be? quote:6. Thinking pessimistically, what do you think the likely result of the battle will be? The Sandman fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 20:46
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Well, on the one hand, my ambush went off exactly as I'd hoped and it looks like we may take St. Croissant without any fighting. On the other hand, we now have two full brigades of Frenchmen at La Cote. On the gripping hand, so long as we still hold the road through Bouclecort, we still have contact with corps HQ, and 43rd Division has a clear path to our objectives.
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Feb 17, 2017 03:45
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Note that the French seem to have concentrated almost all of their artillery into a single massive block that's nowhere near our objectives. A block that will need multiple turns to shake out into a formation that can actually shoot at things. Depending on what that block does over the next few turns, and how soon we can issue new orders, this suggests some hilarious possibilities.
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Feb 17, 2017 04:43
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Trin Tragula posted:The cavalry is a semi-autonomous asset executing orders according entirely to plan. If that were core elements of the brigade...
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Feb 17, 2017 13:50
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Everything depends on how many turns we have until new orders start being acted upon. If it's two turns or more, we're hosed. If it's one turn, or by some miracle this turn, we might be able to salvage something from this debacle.
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Feb 17, 2017 22:16
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Preliminary Orders In the unlikely event that any of us are still alive, fall back and regroup north of St. Croissant. Artillery and MGs are to be in a position to support the new defensive line of 43d Division.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:18
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What's left of Ikasuhito's brigade can get to the gun line in two or three turns. If they survive the attempt. Unfortunately, that's not likely. At this point, the battle now depends entirely on whether the French can also call in reinforcements. They have four completely untouched brigades, plus the one that's probably about to mutually destroy itself and our reinforcement brigade at Nainville. They also still have pretty much all of our artillery, whereas we've lost about half of ours. The real problem is that when command radii are taken into account, I'm not sure we can take our objective and still be in touch with anyone in St. Croissant. And if we want to win, that's the only way left to us, because right now the French can trade one-to-one and we'll lose the battle from attrition before they do. The jaegers need to move out towards Quatrepouts, or at least Dejeuner Ridge, and they need to do it ASAP. As does the brigade immediately west of St. Croissant. Especially given that the French have an infantry brigade already moving in that direction. If they reach the objective and have time to dig in, we lose right then and there. EDIT: It looks like a major factor is that the French have apparently been passing pretty much all of their morale checks, while we've been failing ours. Otherwise we might have at least routed some of their guns off the field. Assuming they don't somehow have their guns under independent command, anyway. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 04:56
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Saros posted:Seriously what the? My fresh bde decided to, first stop too early for the mg's to be able to see, then walk forward despite orders to not advance past the forest? Welcome to my yesterday.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:27
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I can take the 5th Brigade "Mirandizers", seeing as how I don't have anything else to command at the moment.
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Feb 22, 2017 15:51
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Going to do a longer post of stuff I mentioned in roll20 chat once I'm home, but short version is that we need to keep something in the east so long as the French still have intact brigades and a fuckton of artillery there, Cryo will need the howitzers after all because there's almost guaranteed to be a French brigade entrenched (not just sitting in, actually entrenched) in Quatrepouts by the time he gets there, and I think the French have made a serious mistake with their gunline but we'll need to use our cavalry to take advantage of it.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:44
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Posting quickly via phone to say that a) I approve those provisional orders and b) Steinrokkan probably did a better job explaining my plan than I could. Also, to give the observers some perspective on the Roll20 chat right now, an apropos quote I posted there: "My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking."
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Feb 23, 2017 17:08
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Going to need to draw a specific formation up for Baguette, it looks like. But yeah, I stay there barring some urgent need to move elsewhere. The French will have to use infantry to root me out, while not being able to move artillery past until that's done. The cavalry not working out is unfortunate, but I agree they're needed elsewhere. Maybe as a sort of ersatz engineer unit to dig trenches for us.
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Feb 24, 2017 10:56
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I think it might be a good idea for Hegel to relocate south now, to the Fraise-Champs area, while Saros and I fill in those trenches. Any word on how long it'll take for news of our seizure of Quatrepouts to reach command? That would determine how worried we should be about the French or English making a night attack.
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Feb 26, 2017 06:19
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We should make sure to put a few guys on the north slope of Dejeuner too, to make sure the French don't sneak that brigade in the northwest up the back of La Oeuf at night right into most of our artillery. Speaking of which, if we call in another infantry brigade, I'd like to stay in Baguette and have a go at launching a night raid on the French artillery.
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Feb 27, 2017 00:11
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So, another thought: even if I just fall back to the trenches Hegel's leaving, I should probably wait until nightfall or at least until hill spotting goes away to do so, because that way the French can't be sure that I've actually left Baguette. And I'll probably want to leave one company in Baguette anyway to serve as a picket. Come to think of it, picket duty is probably what Saros should do with his brigade at this point; send each of his infantry companies out to a likely line of approach, with an MG attached to each, to warn us if the French are coming and force them to open fire (thus exposing themselves for our artillery). Might even be worth it to call in an artillery brigade rather than an infantry one and then use my guys as pickets too.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:48
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Never mind, staying in Baguette. Owing to work Internet blocking loving everything, specific formation will be posted by steinrokkan or Tevery, or in extremis will be on the Orders map in Roll20. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 17:20
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And the French called in artillery reinforcements, given the 155s down by Graisse. Yeah, I'm charging the French artillery at nightfall. Because gently caress this, I'm at least taking down my loving white whale before we lose. We're going to move everything within 5", then fix bayonets and charge until either we're all dead or we run out of Frenchmen to kill. And I note that the Entente reinforcements haven't had to choose between infantry and artillery, given that the British brought 18 pounders with them. How close are we to this battle ending, Trin? Did you decide that our runner got killed on Lake Oeuf or something, just to add to the dice loving us at every turn? Or can we at least expect him to reach Croissants soon and make that phone call back to HQ to get us the pyhrric victory? Trin Tragula posted:Try not to get too depressed. Remember that if they can do it to you, you can do it to them... gently caress, you more-or-less acknowledge it by saying that even if you'd bothered to let us shoot at that cavalry company, we'd probably have missed anyway. Or can we bring in our reinforcement brigades behind enemy lines too? Are we allowed to do that, or is that an advantage that only the Entente needed when they outnumbered us everywhere and had the loving BEF with its oversized brigades and special rules to call on for reinforcements? Are our troops all secretly Green while the Entente are all secretly Veterans too? The Sandman fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 07:30
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Yeah, in the light of day and some sleep, I was a bit accusatory and overly salty there, for which I apologize. It's just immensely frustrating that even when we finally succeed at something, it's instantly undone during the next orders pulse when we flub every roll and the French succeed on all of theirs. Credit to the French, they've outplayed us since before the first turn, because it's pretty clear they've been a lot better at knowing how to set up their units and word their orders to actually accomplish their goals. And no, that's not backhanded praise; they're just flat better than us at playing this game, on top of any superiority at tactical or strategic planning. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 14:59
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Except, of course, that we managed to gently caress up spectacularly enough to accomplish that during the one part of the war where sweeping advances were possible for our side. I'm of the opinion that we wait one more orders pulse, or two at most, to see if Hegel survives her charge up La Oeuf and is somehow intact enough that the French can't use their own practically untouched brigades to kill her brigade and most of our remaining artillery with it. If we don't achieve that miracle, we ask for terms. Especially since our runner probably died atop La Oeuf during that cavalry charge.
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Feb 28, 2017 17:56
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If our runner doesn't show up at St. Croissants within the next two orders pulses, we have to expect that won't be happening. At that point we're reducing to praying that the French do something really stupid and attack piecemeal rather than just throwing multiple brigades at St. Croissants to overwhelm us, and that we roll impossibly well during that attack. EDIT: Also, the hill will be impregnable by morning, since the Entente will have had time to entrench there with more troops and artillery than we'll have to assault with. The forces already there outnumber Hegel's brigade as is, and they have at least one full-strength brigade they can use as reinforcements there without compromising their defenses at Clemenceau. We take it now, or not at all. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 18:16
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One crucial question: do our reinforcements have to enter the map from the northeast, or can we bring them in elsewhere? Like somewhere in the southeast?
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Feb 28, 2017 18:27
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Okay, important question: What precisely is in an artillery-focused reinforcement brigades? Because I have a plan I'm working on in Roll20 that depends on the answer.
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Feb 28, 2017 19:50
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Okay, posted my thoughts on Roll20, but repeating them here: given what an artillery-focused brigade consists of, I think we should bring an infantry brigade on instead, or maybe even a cavalry one, and try to roll up the French trench line from its eastern flank. Because quite simply, no matter what we do, we can't concentrate enough artillery around St. Croissants to keep the French out if they come in force, and that's even if the French give us the time we need to set up our defenses. What we need to do is disrupt the French, maybe even kill a few of their guns, and buy time that way.
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Feb 28, 2017 20:57
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What does a cavalry brigade consist of, for us? EDIT: And I can give you a look at a trench assault if I go after their guns come nightfall. steinrokkan posted:Attacking blind, with our last troops, into an enemy stronghold, at night, when we don't really understand the rules? Sorry, I can't endorse that. Even with reinforcements, we can't hold St. Croissants against what the Entente can throw at it. If the artillery-focused reinforcements had been primarily or entirely artillery like I'd hoped, it could have worked. Infantry alone won't be enough. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 21:04
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Better plan, then: bring cavalry on in the northwest quadrant and send it to help you hold Quatrepouts. If your brigade gets destroyed and we lose that town, the only timer left to run out is the one until we've been attritioned to death.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:59
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So, critical question: with the reinforcement brigade, what margin do we have left before we automatically lose from casualties? Because remember, the instant we lose Quatrepouts our victory timer goes away. After that, it's just a question of how long it takes the French to end the battle by killing us all. So no matter what, I think this is the last time we're going to be issuing orders in this battle; once our troops reach their final positions, they sit in place until they die or break. We may as well just run a longer turn and get it over with. EDIT: Anyway, for something that might actually be useful to consider for future games, was there a single thing we did right? What could we have done differently that wouldn't just end with us getting hosed in a different way, and that we wouldn't have needed hindsight to know to do? In my case, I needed to better coordinate with Jaguars during the initial approach, and to just change standing orders to "rifle fire" instead of "bayonet charge", the latter of which I didn't do under the assumption that my specific orders not to charge out from under MG and artillery cover during the advance would apply, and that using rifle fire as my standing order would end up with my troops deciding to just stand 8" away from the enemy in an open field and make themselves a target for artillery while they tried to shoot things. My failure to coordinate with Jaguars is why instead of marching through St. Croissants and taking up positions to its south, my troops just stopped west of Baguette and went over to their standing order of "if you see any Frenchmen, charge them, no matter how outnumbered you are". Well, either that, or they were still trying to reach their stop line south of St. Croissants, only now in a really dumb way because I didn't think to make another contingency for that situation. Our biggest mistakes as a side, I think, were 1) we assumed the French would be roughly equal in numbers to us, when in fact they outnumbered us from the start, and 2) we told all of our infantry to keep marching no matter how many Frenchmen appeared because we didn't come up with any way that we could ignore a small French force while responding appropriately to a large one. I also think we underestimated how much space a brigade could actually cover when it spread out to form a defensive line; IIRC, a major part of why we set up our plans the way we did was the assumption that the 19th couldn't actually cover the entirety of the space between croissants and the eastern map edge. So let's call that mistake number three. If we'd realized that we could in fact cover that much frontage, we'd probably have sent at least one brigade to try to secure the hillside directly south of Baguende, which would have prevented the catastrophe of the opening turns. Our assumption that the enemy was probably entering from the southwest was not a mistake, at least not in the sense that it cost us the battle, because we were right that we could reach croissants first if the french came in from the southeast, and we had made a reasonable decision to prioritize taking our objective over attacking the enemy troops. Parceling out our artillery between our brigades, rather than concentrating everything into one brigade the way the French seem to have done, wasn't a mistake, because in the absence of our other fuckups it would have allowed us to hold a line without worrying that a single die roll gone bad would cost us an entire division's artillery. It only went badly wrong because we threw away an entire division for negligible effect on the French. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 17:13
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Crazycryodude posted:Our victory timer doesn't go away if we lose Q. Moltke will be rather miffed when he shows up and finds it's no longer ours, but he still shows up. As long as we can keep a hold of Croissant, we'll still win because at least we got the minor objective. Okay, and our loss threshold? Once your brigade is wiped out, can we avoid hitting it before Moltke shows up and berates us for our failures? Assuming of course that you're correct, and that things haven't changed due to the circumstances being "we're about to be driven from the field completely" instead of "still a see-saw battle over Quatrepouts that we could theoretically win with just a few more men". Because I'm pretty sure the latter is what the situation of the victory timer running out with us driven from Quatrepouts after starting said timer was expected to cover, not the former.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:05
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Just putting things in perspective here: if I've done the math right, we can only lose 18 more chits before we hit our current loss threshold and 22 before we hit our final post-reinforcement loss threshold. Cryo's brigade will account for twelve of those chits by itself when it's destroyed or routed off the field. Alternatively, mine will account for twelve chits when it's destroyed. If they kill both of our brigades, that's game. Given that, I'm pulling back from Baguette at nightfall. Maybe that'll buy us enough time. Otherwise, they can push two or three brigades at me while doing whatever else they want, and we're done. Also, if Jaguars gets routed out of Croissants, we should surrender, because retaking it will push us over our loss threshold even if we by some miracle succeed.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:27
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Okay. Still, though, if we actually want to drag this out we have to keep that loss threshold in mind, because it means we have to avoid fighting for anything that's not absolutely essential. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what we want to do, because we'll drop below the threshold and lose by default. EDIT: Speaking of which, my orders: 5th Brigade The turn before nightfall, open fire on any Entente units spotted and in range of your current positions. At nightfall, leave Baguette to the northwest and the Bois de Baguette to the north, to take up the position and formation shown in the following picture. Once there, open fire on anything Entente that comes into range. Do not break off from this position; you'll either defend it successfully or you'll die where you stand. 
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:07
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Well, the removal of the loss limit changes things some. Time to dig in for the siege of Croissants and hope we can hold until dawn. It's kind of like a zombie movie, actually. Except the Frenchmen smell worse. EDIT: if the rest of the surviving commanders deem that it wouldn't breach opsec, would it be possible to send that last paragraph as a message to the Entente? The Sandman fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 19:47
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Trin, a question: can we specifically request that the artillery ignore the 2" rule and fire at Frenchmen even if LOS issues mean there's a chance of dropping shells on our own men? Because if we can, I'm willing to march my brigade between Clemenceau and St. Croissants, then call in artillery on my own position when the French attack.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:19
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Hey, Cryo. Assuming you aren't run down by cavalry next turn, and that you're right about this being a mirror match, the other thing you could do aside from HQ and howitzer hunting is try to reach the town in the northwest of the map and annoy the French if they go for it.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:31
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