Crazycryodude posted:The comedy option is hoping they don't leave a garrison in Q and I can just walk back in when everybody goes to pound on Croissant. That would be hilarious, but would also require the French to be really, really stupid. And that they not have a cavalry brigade they can swing back around to finish murdering you. Hell, it's your call. At this point you're pretty much under your own command anyway, given the number of enemy troops between you and the rest of us.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:56
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After hashing it out a bit on Roll20, thinking the best way to do this, if we decide to try it, is to have our two full-strength brigades leave their artillery and MGs to defend St. Croissants, then take alternate routes to Quatrepouts. Brigade 1 marches along the road west of St.C until it reaches the fork just east of Haltebruit. It then turns south and marches to the Bois de Bacon, and finally charges La Oeuf to kill whatever enemy units may remain there. Brigade 2 moves out of St.C to the south, marching along the road to Graisse. Once it reaches the town, it turns west and follows the road to Quatrepouts. In both cases, the brigades would move in battle order at all times and attempt to move the full 8" each turn, applying the bayonet to any Frenchmen or British that get in the way. For defending St.C, we put just enough infantry south and east of town to spot for our guns and MGs, assisted by some stretches of wire Jaguars intends to lay down across the most likely French paths of advance. The rest of the infantry waits north of town to counter-charge any Frenchmen that enter town, as attempting to directly defend the town just means they get butchered by a French charge instead.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:26
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steinrokkan posted:DO NOT DIVIDE ONE'S OWN FORCE IN THE FACE OF OVERWHELMING ODDS First, they won't expect this, and will have to alter their plans on the fly to compensate rather than being able to take advantage of following a more developed plan. Second, it's pretty clear that it's better to be on the attack at this point, given that Cryo's men could barely even slow the enemy down when charged. Third, for the defense of Croissants, our infantry are basically irrelevant except for what spotting they provide. Our artillery and MGs are what will actually do the work, and I've set up a defensive plan for them. Fourth, this plan pins down their freshest units, the cavalry and BEF, while preventing the enemy from surprising us from the west. Fifth, it gives us a chance at genuine victory in this battle, in spite of everything that's happened to date. Sixth, it gives us something to do that might keep our remaining players involved in the game. Seventh, it's the closest we've come to a coherent plan since everything went pear-shaped in the first orders pulse.
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Mar 2, 2017 23:03
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Given that he explicitly told us he didn't care about losses now, I'm willing to take him at his word. Also, this plan does involve taking down the isolated enemy brigades before they can rejoin their friends for the attack on Croissants. Which is important, because we can put up a much stiffer defense if the enemy has only one really viable approach vector to use and we can thus actually concentrated our remaining firepower on that route. EDIT: I'm not leaving St. Croissants undefended. The image below is the defense plan. 
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 23:16
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Let me ask a question, then: where do you propose to put those two brigades worth of infantry that they can spot for our guns without masking them? Without also diluting the guns such that we can't bring more than three or four to bear at a time on a given French attack? And when we've guaranteed that the French can bring the two-and-a-half brigades they currently have in the southwest quadrant of the map to bear wherever and whenever they want?
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 23:38
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Jaguars! posted:Those are simple problems that can be solved by individual brigadiers. A Defense with all our brigades will be rock solid in most directions and able to respond if they try to come from unexpected ones. So when the French push three brigades at one side of Saint Croissants, one after the other, and we only have one to defend with since we needed to cover the entire perimeter, how do we respond? Especially since by the time our other brigades do respond, the French are now the ones with the advantage of whatever trenches they just captured? And since we can expect the French to bring up sufficient artillery to overwhelm ours if we have to disperse it enough to have LOS past our troops on all sides of town? Also, for those commenting on the overwhelming advantage of the defender, at what point have we seen that this battle? The closest we came is when the French made their first attack on Croissants back in the morning, and that was with a single brigade that had been weakened by my and Ikasuhito's brigades before it hit the town. What we'd be facing now is multiple brigades that we wouldn't be able to see until they were already on top of our infantry, who no longer have to worry about us having troops anywhere else because they'll know we pulled everything back into Croissants.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:01
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steinrokkan posted:We are supposed to be building dynamic defenses as much as we can. Any one of our defending brigades should be able to quickly take up a failing brigade's place at the perimeter. With you retreating to the trenches in particular we are going to be arranged like spokes of a wheel, able to rotate between various angles facing different enemy approaches. Without blocking artillery LOS? And with the need to roll for an orders change when we want to move those reinforcements around? When infantry is really bad at killing things with rifle fire, and only so-so at suppressing them? I think that approach just magnifies the problems with our tactical situation while doing very little to create or even exploit weaknesses in the French one. EDIT: Does the defensive plan I posted last page make sense, at least? Heck, I'll repost it just in case.
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 00:16
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koolkevz666 posted:Where does it say units are no longer hidden? According to the second sentence in the rules for towns a unit in the outskirts still gets Cover. According to the spotting rules an infantry unit in Cover may only be spotted at 4 inches. However, anyone approaching will be in the open and be spotted at 12 inches away giving us a spotting bonus. It's night now, remember? Spotting is reduced to 4" under all circumstances, except when a unit opens fire (at which point it's visible out to 24"). At this point, we need our infantry far enough ahead of the MGs to spot for them while preventing the French from just continuing a successful charge against an infantry company into the MG company behind it that same turn.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:26
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steinrokkan posted:Enemy can't charge at previously undetected targets. We need to deploy so we can suppress the poo poo out of as many guys as possible once they come into view and are forced to stop. Did you even look at my defense plan for Saint Croissants? Or were you assuming I just wanted the artillery to trundle along behind our infantry on the way to Quatrepouts?
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Mar 3, 2017 00:32
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So does anyone else have any specific plans for how to set up to defend the town? Or want to come to Roll20 to start making them? Because right now we don't have one, and we kind of need to actually coordinate with each other so that we don't end up overlapping our units, unable to support each other, or just working off our own individual plans instead of a single comprehensive one.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:06
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Okay, so after some discussion in Roll20 with Cryo, I present a revised and hopefully final version of THE PLAN: The black lines by Hegel's position are barbed wire. Blue arrows are likely directions of approach for the French cavalry. Red is the route for Koolkevz' infantry to take. Once he reaches the Baconwald, it's up to both him and our situation at that time whether he heads for Quatrepouts, charges the rear of the likely enemy positions on La Oeuf, or just waits for an opportune moment to do something. My guys are the picket line south and east of town. Saros is the picket line north of Baguette. Jaguars is north of town; should the French somehow reach it alive, his job is to counter-charge and evict them 20th Maine-style. Perestroika's orphan is the guy in Bois de Gooneville. The inspiring message in the killzone is a suggestion.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:31
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Changed things around a bit on Roll20. Saros in town, my guys spread out more over most of the picket line, a few extra guns in the west. Would prefer input before posting finalized orders if at all possible.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:21
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5th Brigade Orders Set up a picket line southeast of Saint Croissants, as per the image to be provided by division HQ (as I'm at work and thus can't do so). EDIT: If units need to stay on Attack Stance until they reach final positions, they are ordered not to engage French units unless forced to by literally stumbling into them. A picket line does not good if the companies just charge at the first sign of Frenchmen. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:48
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Send either koolkevz or Hegel. Preferably koolkevz, I think. Also, let's hope the death of the enemy corps commander makes things harder for the Entente.
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Mar 4, 2017 03:14
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If needs be, I'll walk my brigade HQ there, accompanied by that infantry company that retreated this turn if it recovers. My troops are in their final positions and have their final orders, so they don't need my input anymore.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:03
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Jaguars! posted:What on earth makes people look at the entente situation and decide that the BEF commander is thinking "Yes, I'll walk off the town they just attack to go to somewhere of no strategic use" That is straight out wishful thinking. If they aren't in the town, they'll be nearby blocking the routes to it, I guarantee it. The part where they know they just killed the last guys we had on that half of the map and they need the BEF if they want to drive us from Croissants? And that the best spot for them to guard Quatrepouts is by setting up between Dejeuner and Clemenceau? And that they know drat well that we've turtled up around Croissants at this point, since they presumably saw our arty and MGs mowing down the cavalry brigade? And that as Cryo says, it costs us nothing to try?
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Mar 4, 2017 07:49
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So, question: can I detach my HQ from the rest of my brigade and give it individual orders? Because as stated, the rest of my brigade won't be needing orders now. It's where it has to be.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:02
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Look, guys (and gal), is there any real reason not to humor Cryo? Especially when thus far he's been consistently right about what the enemy is doing?
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Mar 4, 2017 18:08
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Shift my guys near Baguette to cover the trenches Saros is in. That frees up his troops while still giving us warning if the French try something on Pasteur. Also, I was pretty sure my guys start digging in automatically if they're in defensive stance.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:22
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You guys do realize that if the French had a mirrored objective, they probably have guys sitting on it by this point? I think we have to at least try to grab Quatrepouts the sneaky way. EDIT: Seriously, Saros is effectively a regimental commander instead of a brigadier at this point. If the French can drive us out of our current position at night while their commander structure is shot to hell, three companies of infantry aren't going to make a difference. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 19:07
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steinrokkan posted:So? the dice have been rolled, if we got there first, we win, if they got there first, they win. No need to grasp at straws for a major victory when we can ensure a minor one. Right now our flanks are wide open. And Saros can't materially affect that in any way that can't be accomplished just as easily by my shifting my companies so that my picket line extends up onto Pasteur. This move has the potential to give us a major victory without costing us a minor victory if it fails. I see no good reason not to try. steinrokkan posted:Also - while you are saying that it is unlikely that they could sneak some force to attack us from the rear, you are at the same time saying we could sneak a unit much farther away to capture a town. I know Saros is a small unit, but he has the disadvantage of dealing with an unknown enemy disposition, while the French know for certain that the whole map except for St. C. is their playground, so they can be stealthy with a much larger force. No, what I'm saying is that the only route they can do that from before they run out of time is around our eastern flank, and I can give us enough advance warning to neutralize that threat. If they swing wide enough that my pickets don't see them, they don't actually get into position to attack us before the clock runs out. And we do have a rough idea of the French disposition: they're concentrated to our southeast, with a few guys to our south and southwest. The only way they stop this move by Saros is if they're across the western road, and that in and of itself would be useful information to have. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 19:17
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5th Brigade Orders Extend the picket line to the northeast to cover Pasteur. When the company scattered by the French cavalry rallies, have them return to their previous position. Once everything is in position, return to defensive stance and await the dawn. Prior orders on not engaging Entente units unless forced into close combat still apply. EDIT: Aphid, look up Fort Douaumont. There's precedent for a small German force taking a vital position and the French responding poorly. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 19:54
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Coming back in whatever capacity is available. EDIT: Cryo has dibs, but if he doesn't want it I'd happily take the role of Corps Commander. Failing that, artillery command or a division HQ. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 18:43
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I think our main target for the first phase should be the bridges over that stream west of Stethoscope. We also might want to run one of our initial cavalry brigades directly at Stethoscope with orders along the lines of "if you move into a spot where you will take fire during the shooting phase, move back out and go around" to get them to move 1" into the range of Entente units in Stethoscope and then pull back out and go around the town should they be shot at without having to lose most of a turn's movement switching stance.
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Mar 7, 2017 04:22
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I look forward to being the tip of the spear again. Hopefully with a better K:D ratio this time. I'd say a major goal is to hit and cross the CdC before turn 10. If we can do that, they won't have had time to entrench there. EDIT: What am I worried about, my Bavarians will cream any opposition. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 15:47
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2nd Cavalry Orders Enter the map in Marching Order along the northern road, then continue down the road and across the northern bridge. Remain on the northern road until you reach Stethoscope. If Ikasuhito's 1st Brigade entered Stethoscope without fighting or was fired upon from elsewhere, take up Battle Order inside the town, then deploy in Defensive Stance with the arse hortillery and one MG in the northwestern Outskirts, one MG in the western Outskirts, one MG in the northern outskirts, and the cavalry as well as my brigade HQ in town. If Ikasuhito was fired upon from the town, halt 14" from the Outskirts and change to Battle Order, then charge down the road into town on the next turn. After the town is taken and its defenders destroyed, take up positions as per the above orders. Once in town, if an enemy formation closes within charging distance, the cavalry companies and my HQ are to charge them, pursue until the formation is destroyed or routed, then return to positions in the town. Standing Orders: When sighting an enemy on Attack Stance 12" or less away: CHARGE THEM When attacking the enemy: CHARGE THEM When enemy breaks off or retreats: KEEP CHARGING THEM Break off automatically when: NEVER
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Mar 10, 2017 22:09
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