|
BarbarianElephant posted:My idea is that it would be a voluntary thing - you chose to give up the degree so that the student loan agreements become dischargeable in bankruptcy. I've heard from plenty of people who got a degree because it was the thing to do, but couldn't find work in their field, and are working in a job that doesn't require a degree, but the payments are a millstone around their neck. If they didn't have the degree, their career would be fine to support themselves, but with the payments, they are never going to earn enough to buy a house or have a family. This is not a healthy situation. This was what bankruptcy was designed to prevent. Other than this being a terrible idea that places responsibility on former students instead of the loan companies that actually gouging people, you forget that virtually all American jobs require a degree. It does not matter what kind, just that you have obtained a degree. Voiding a degree could end up leading to job termination for many people since they could no longer legally be considered qualified for their positions. Even if their current job does not require a degree, nulling the degree takes away what makes them competitive to bosses.
|
#
¿
May 1, 2017 18:57
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:42 |
|
|
sheri posted:It says this ten year old is getting 3 hours a night of homework and that the child isn't struggling academically or behind the class. I have taught kids from 6 months to 13 year olds. Personally, I think we should be teaching kids to work smarter, not harder. Endless amounts of busy work just causes burnout and bores the rest of the students. I don't mind bringing mini review sheets home of what the class went over that day or week, but extensive review daily seems unnecessary. I would rather move from regular worksheets to individual projects that show the synthesis of material gleaned.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:The assumption of busywork seems questionable on its face. Maybe they're being assigned reading so that during class time they can actually analyze and discuss. The automatic dismissal of any homework as being invalid I think is faulty. You can't just say that all work outside of class is harmful or excessive. Actual independent practice or study obviously has value, does it not? When misapplied, it can certainly be ineffective. The automatic assumption that it will be and can only be misapplied comes from where? I'm sure with certain kids who are having a hard time really getting material can benefit from extra worksheets. But again, those should be gone over with a tutor, not necessarily brought home. The problem with homework is that by and large it is done via run of the mill basic pop quiz style questions and work, and from my students I have seen packets of worksheets brought home in their backpacks. No kid needs to do 16 sheets of writing and letter practice at 7 yrs old to prove they know the material. I don't know about your district, but at least in ours, homework is being treated as a way to teach kids what they couldn't get to in class. What I am saying is that in a properly run education system, homework would not be necessary. We should be focusing on curriculum that is interdisciplinary and requires kids to use facts in multiple contexts, not just rattle off a bunch off answers. In your perspective, exactly how is homework beneficial to the student? How does it meet a goal and teach them? I'd prefer independent work took place in class or knowledge was practice project based, so the kid would actually be working towards something like in the real world.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:From the perspective of a literature student and English teacher, homework should primarily be reading with perhaps some writing questions to guide the student in their understanding of what they read. Every discipline has activities that are better suited to the individual in their own time rather than the limited amount of time available in class. The problem however, is that homework is almost never anything other than worksheets. I'm glad you would take the time to think through writing portions and questions, but when educators have limited time to prep and grade as it is, homework tends to take the easy way out and is done in a way to quickly review and grade. It's designed to fit a perceived requirement, not for what is actually best for the students learning and retention style. Also, child development theory and psychology have had numerous studies show that children 13 and under learn through play. Giving kids outside of secondary education any homework quite frankly, seems ineffective when you consider that at that age range children need to fully interact with learning material. Time with family and playing might actually help them intentionally retain more effectively. I understand that our education model is designed to prepare students for college and to be fantastic little workers, but honestly, we should be more focused on actually teaching kids how to learn basic information and utilize it. I've seen plenty of college students and co workers who could write a paper phenomenal or were great at math. But the second you asked them to use that information in a new context they would flip out.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
Hawkgirl posted:Can you cite a source that homework is almost never anything other than worksheets in language arts class? (Since you are disagreeing with a language arts teacher. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence that homework is almost never anything other than worksheets/problem sets in math, for example.) What is your basis for saying that educators try to take the easy way out with homework? We discuss in our teacher thread a lot of alternate ways to handle workload and none of them are ever "just give them dumbass busywork worksheets so that you can grade them real quick and be done." Mostly because that actually creates more work for us. I've seen of course the usual diorama or presentation for large language arts projects, but I have seen language arts in two separate states: IL and MN. And in those school districts, having helped several students with their work, it was always worksheets. Sometimes they cut their sheets into little books or vocab card, but it was always a paper based assignment. Now, I admit I have not done deep searching on the subject this evening (apologies, I am tired) but I have worked in curriculum development and when I typed up "non-worksheet based language arts homework" on Google, all that came back was worksheet ideas. Even on Pinterest and Education.com, it is pretty much just worksheets. I think this is because in general, in suffering districts, it is just easier to take what is most efficient and is known to work. If you know some awesome, interdisciplinary homework options I am more than happy to hear them. I just know that as a parent and an educator, and someone in administration, I have seen a general trend within a variety of school systems. There tends to be a default.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
Oracle posted:I think this is the article you all are looking for regarding elementary school level homework: The research is clear, let’s ban elementary homework Thank you. Literally every school of child development agrees that play is necessary to learning at that age, and kids do not have the brain growth or stamina required for needless repetitive exercises. I think many educators have so much busy work thrust on them that they become conditioned to believe this is normal, so they expect it out of everyone else. We've build a system predicated on more practice being better, not necessarily magnifying focus of material.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Oxphocker posted:
Just want to say I would actually be willing to meet halfway and be okay with one assignment a week. If that is your protocol, that is awesome and shows just how different school systems are because IL and MN still adhere to daily work in virtually all schooling options. It's really to see a lack of motivation in your students though, because children really need to be learning self motivation. Having an intrinsic understanding of rewards is vital.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:"You know, I don't believe in homework because teachers are lovely, and I accept that you students will just work 20% of the time. I don't really understand why anyone would expect you to work every day while you're at work. Kind of surprised that these kids don't understand motivation, though. It should be something internal that they have." I don't think teachers are lovely, if that is what you think. What I think is that educators need to stop buying in to the idea that they are the ones that need to be propping up the education system all by themselves. I understand that education and poverty are intertwined, and that educators are doing all they can to help kids, I get it. But speaking as someone in child development, kids do need to learn about intrinsic motivation. It's a necessary human skill that creates stability in sense of self and identity. Having a inner motivation or purpose minimizes things like anxiety and behaviors.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:This is mealy-mouthed platitude. You yourself are selling the idea that homework is worthless because teachers do it wrong, and you yourself are selling the idea that one day of work is enough for a student. In the next breath you mouth this nonsense about intrinsic motivation. What are you? How do you build intrinsic motivation in a young person if you don't require them to do anything? Exactly why do you believe homework is the only way to teach motivation or hard work? Note that at no point have I ever said I don't want to require kids to do anything or at least nothing difficult. And I never said homework is worthless because teachers do it wrong. Look at my response to Oracle, my complaint against homework is that it is not beneficial for young kids and goes against their neurological development and processing abilities. I absolutely believe we should require students to do things, I just don't agree that regular homework is the way to go about it.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 04:16
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:Then explain what is the way to go about it. Nobody anywhere is arguing for homework for really young kids, but you are vehemently attacking the concept as a whole without much context, while attempting to sell a philosophy that does not at all align with the ideas you are attacking. What do you think a student should do? You certainly can talk about what teachers shouldn't do and what students shouldn't do, can you do the same for what they should? As I said before, and some would disagree, I think we should be moving towards having students consistently be working on individual projects. There could be regular check ins with the teacher to make sure the student is on task and able to apply their knowledge. Maybe by altering on and off between a teacher led day and an independent work day throughout the week, with supplemental information on the class side or in a packet at the beginning of the term for those with no computer access. I'm sure there would be bumps in the road towards implementing it. But after some time I believe that kind of model would put more responsibility on the student for their education and force them to find something to work for.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
Hawkgirl posted:How big of a class are you thinking for this? 20 kids per teacher? Edit: asking Hastings I mean I would be okay with up to 30 kids, but preferably 20-25. The "check in" days could have the first 15 meet with the teacher and the second group the next day. Also then, you'd have to consider setting aside certain days for the kids to show final presentations and such. Hastings fucked around with this message at 06:08 on May 3, 2017 |
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 06:03
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:42 |
|
|
Accretionist posted:I find the maturity/socialization angle persuasive. Although if testing out of classes meant taking more electives, I'd be inclined to see value in that. Another point in your favor: community/junior colleges also have access to lots of clubs and events, all filled with a variety of age groups. So there is that socialization and diversity practice built in. With school, it is only peers. I think testing out and gaining early college experience can be great for certain kids. Certainly not every teenager can handle it, but it should be an option. I remember we did the same kind of program during my high school years and it was a life saver when it came to college loans.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2017 04:24
|
|