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They make less money than the guy who does dishes or scrubs bilges on a merchant ship, and that guy only works 6-8 months a year. The deck gang makes 2+ times what a teacher does working 6-8 months a year to paint and do sailorly stuff with ropes and whatnot.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:43
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Oracle posted:...they are always, always pitching in even if they're just there as a spectator. Without being asked. They spend their own money on school supplies, niceties for the class, treats, snacks, etc.... From a leftist perspective isn't the hideously problematic? Like everyone who becomes a teacher knows teachers endure this kind of thing if they want to keep their jobs, and still continue to sign up to perform this class-treasonous dog and pony show.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:46
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Oracle posted:Or you know, they care more about the kids they see and are entrusted with for 7 hours a day five days a week 180 days a year than they do about your class war and would rather they not go hungry or be unable to complete an assignment because they don't have a pencil. The class war and the kids not having food or pencils is kind of the same thing, and the best way to fix it is definitely not to act happy about making slave wages and being expected to serve as a backdoor welfare dispenser on top of it.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:49
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Oracle posted:And what exactly would you have them do? Its not like snacks and pencils are magically going to show up if they refuse to provide them to stick it to the man. I would say that people who are already in a position to have a college degree (most a masters) should refuse to work for those wages, and should not pursue those opportunities as students. A massive teacher shortage would kind of force the issue more than grinning and bearing it does.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:01
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Cease to Hope posted:you know that teachers have unions, right? Yeah and they make professional wages and work strict hours in that handful of states.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:06
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on the left posted:One positive thing about TFA is that effectively raised teacher salaries by offering extremely high-paying exit options from teaching. I work with a lot of HYPS students way smarter than the average directional state university (i.e. not the flagship) education major who took the offer to go work in an underserved communities for two years, then dipped to a professional degree or directly to a gig at McKinsey/Apple/JP Morgan. This is literally the problem though, you get "smart" amateurs doing it for two years as poverty tourism or whatever instead of the professional teachers who didn't happen to major in CS or finance at a brand name school.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:11
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Speak posted:I'm a drat good teacher Did you major in brogramming or finance at HYPS??!?
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Feb 9, 2017 23:13
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on the left posted:I don't really understand how these amateurs are different from new teachers from other schools though, if using experience as a metric of performance. I would guess that any non-retarded 30 year old is going to be better than the smartest 21-22 year old at any job. Having most of anyone in any job barely old enough to drink and staying for 2 years max is terrible. It is like a conscript army vs. a professional army. edit: I only went to a state flagship though so I'm half-retarded myself at best shovelbum fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 23:20
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bag em and tag em posted:You guys are spending too much time arguing with a guy who clearly sees no moral value in taking care of or educating children and has reduced the worth of entire population of young people to a dollar value. He clearly does not grasp that educators simultaneously feel an imperative to properly care for and educate children and need to be paid a fair wage to take care of themselves as well. And I'm arguing with a guy who thinks that a 22 year old from Stanford with no specialized training is better than a 35 year old from UVA or Berkeley with 14 years on the job and 4-6 years of laser-focused training!
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Feb 9, 2017 23:47
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LunarShadow posted:It is also the same person they are talking about. Oh I thought they were talking about me.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:54
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Quidthulhu posted:We already have a massive teacher shortage. It is not changing anything. It's a systematic problem because until everyone in the world stops assuming we are lazy and don't know what we are doing (and that they can do it better than us), it won't change. What happens at 0 teachers though? There's a "shortage" compared to the hideous oversaturation of workers for jobs in say, manufacturing, but not enough of one that there are 600 students or 6000 students or 60,000 students in a classroom.
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Feb 10, 2017 00:02
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I would like to say that the idea of the average job being watching cat pictures in your cube and talking about Game of Thrones around the water cooler is true for only the most useless of office jobs again.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:47
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litany of gulps posted:Which we are all well aware of, thank you. You have spectacularly misunderstood the point. The fact that you can go to the water cooler or take a moment to look at cat pictures or strike up a conversation about Game of Thrones, though - that's the difference. I think you misunderstand me, I was phone posting and probably unclear - there are plenty of jobs where you are required to spend school-day lengths of time with minimal breaks focusing on a high stakes task. A lot of these are skilled blue-collar jobs and the rhetoric of "hardest job on earth, can't even watch YouTube!" doesn't necessarily ring as true to the offshore crane operator as it does to the cube jockey. edit: litany of gulps posted:Do you think police presence and enforcement is the same at all schools? Do you think criminal activity is reported and enforced the same at all types of schools, or does it perhaps mirror broader social issues like selective enforcement in the war on drugs? Jesus this school to prison pipeline poo poo is an epidemic now, it's even getting into the nice (white) schools. Every fight gets the cops involved these days.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:06
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litany of gulps posted:This is a fair point. The take-away from this point though, is that perhaps the skilled blue-collar worker (often union) and the teacher aren't at all in opposition. These are hard jobs that deserve compensation, but they're both under the same attacks from the same groups. So why engage in a dick-waving contest about who has it worse off? Unite against the systemic issues attempting to destroy the credibility and compensation of both groups. Yeah exactly this, unfortunately the non-union trades swing pretty hard right, and there are a lot of Trump voters even in the trade unions. I think that when a leftist movement has become so isolated to the white-collar classes that it loses even the support of unionized workers, there is a lot of trouble afoot! on the left posted:If my kids is attacked, I want the other kid going to prison. If police won't do anything to children, I will teach my child to take things into his/her own own hands to ensure they are never attacked again by that person. You want your kid doing 5 years for getting in a schoolyard scuffle and throwing a few bare fists? This cuts both ways.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:18
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Hunt11 posted:Why are you still debating with him? He just tried to use Trump as a symbol of rational thought. Oh that's that same guy. I should buy him a swastika av but we should all remember to give fascists no platform anyway and put him on the ignore list.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:20
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Auto shop is a backdoor into not embarrassing yourself in any situation where there is a machine, which is all kinds of careers from ditch digger to theoretical physicist.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:59
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There are all kinds of super specialized technician jobs that are decidedly blue collar and don't require a degree, but it's hard to say that any one of them is worth teaching in high school nationally - community colleges seem really well adapted to working to meet the needs of local employers for this kind of stuff but I guess not everywhere has an oilfield or aircraft factory or steel mill or whatever that needs armies of specialty welders and instrumentation guys.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:16
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litany of gulps posted:Should local high schools cater to local needs? Is there a problem with a local high school teaching welding if there's a demand for the skill locally? Yeah I guess you could use the same model in high school, though part of me thinks the goal of high school should be to create a standardized citizen of some kind so that in an emergency they're a known quantity.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:28
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