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Looking back on college, I have to say there is some truth in the "lazy teacher" myth. It's an anecdotal sampling, obviously, but let's be academic and call it "ethnography". I've got 8 total. 6 are just burnouts who couldn't crack their major so they ended up opting for the teaching route. 1 is totally devoted and just loves the poo poo out of kids and is amazing. 1 is also totally devoted and loved the poo poo out of kids which is why they are now in safely kept away from kids in jail. That's not that far off from most careers. A small percentage wants it and is all about it. Most just kinda fell into it and are making it work. And on the opposite extreme, some are trying to exploit it for some creepy reason (real or imagined). The 6/8 people that fell into it. These people talk about a "passion for education" but they obviously don't give a loving poo poo. They are just trying to get through their day like everybody else. So what?
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Feb 19, 2017 12:02
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| # ¿ May 4, 2024 09:59 |
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What if we just brought back the good paying factory jobs and made education a moot point. Not everybody needs to have a college degree. Is knowing about the Battle of Hastings or how to take a derivative really that important for most people?
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Feb 19, 2017 22:17
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What do you mean by "participate in society"? That seems needlessly vague. People have their personal life where they can do whatever they want and people have their job where they contribute to society in some way. Your version of schooling seems geared towards the private side where people can discover themselves through hobbies (?). What use is that? Why should we spend time money and infrastructure on something like that? Wouldn't it be better suited towards actually preparing people for the workforce?
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Feb 19, 2017 22:29
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JeffersonClay posted:Germany's manufacturing sector fared far better than ours in a global market. Germany has a fantastic vocational education system, which does not eliminate history or any other core component of the curriculum. These two things are probably related. They also segregate students at grade 4. We should probably start doing the same thing. Dumping more money into the system when the system clearly can't serve and isn't meant to serve everyone seems like a better approach. Since people at the top are more likely to be able to afford more, the charter/private system isn't so bad. There will be an adjustment period where religious schools thrive but since those schools don't really teach anything the market will ensure they fall apart pretty quickly.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:16
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litany of gulps posted:Please explain how segregating students at an early age into manufacturing training is going to help when our manufacturing output is at a peak and there are fewer jobs than ever in these sectors. Training a bunch of poor kids for non-existent jobs will solve our problems? But we still have lots of basic infrastructure jobs like construction, pharmacy techs, mechanics, etc. Your average German Hauptschule would cover those and we can fine tune it from there. We don't have to ape Germany's model perfectly. For example, the service sector is huge in America. We could train them for those jobs. That could also help normalize the career path where your fry cook really is just a dumb teenager getting training while the manager is a more well respected middle aged figure.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:29
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JeffersonClay posted:There's a lot of neoliberal rhetoric in this response that I disagree with. The market ain't fixing poo poo, and more funding is absolutely necessary. Tracking and segregation aren't really the same thing, although they might be in practice if implemented in the US. But magnet programs and honors track classes aren't segregation, and we don't need heavy handed tracking to improve the vocational options in our schools. The problem we have in US education is that we operate under the illusion that all students need to be prepared to go to college, which simply isn't true. All students should have the option to be on a college track curriculum, but many would be better served with vocational alternatives that currently suck or don't exist at all. Let's focus on where we agree since "Neoliberalism" has become a meaningless buzzword. We agree the system is broken because it is designed towards an end that simply doesn't make sense. Rather than think about wishy-washy things like "the benefits of a liberal education" let's think about ends. What is the telos of education? What ends are we trying to reach? If we can identify that, then we can start thinking about means and methods. Gearing it towards employment seems like a good and reasonable end for general education. There is something to be said about "the world of the mind" but that's historically been reserved for the independently wealthy because it's not really productive in a way that translates to financial gain. If we're gearing it towards employment, why not start splitting at 4th grade? In Germany you can transfer between school tracks (it's not easy but the right kind of motivated student can hack it and that's precisely the population it is designed for). Why wait until grade 10? Those 16 year olds could already be trained, working and earning. Plus, it would help with teen pregnancy. It's not a big deal to be a pregnant teen if you have a career already established. Being a pregnant teen who has to drop out of high school, on the other hand, basically prevents them from having any negotiating power.
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Feb 20, 2017 02:19
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BarbarianElephant posted:If this was true the Middle East wouldn't be full of religious schools that teach little but how to be a fanatic and we'd all be much better off. Those religious schools in the Middle East are damned good at producing soldiers so they seem to be working great! Again, you have to look at ends. The ends for those schools is different than the ends for a middle school in middle America. Though maybe they shouldn't be, since military service remains the most viable path for escaping poverty in much of the country.
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Feb 20, 2017 05:22
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Your take isn't quite right. The poor will be completely left out of the system. The Rich will get fantastic educations and the squishy middle social climbers will have the choice of either letting their kids get education for the poor and get nowhere or get unquestioning obedience school. This reshapes the middle class to be a mindless stamp for the whims of the upper class as opposed to an actual mobile source that may be a threat.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:11
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Who is "the government"? This seems like conspiracy-style thinking.
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Feb 20, 2017 10:03
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Oxphocker posted:
This seems to be the major problem though, because the current system is treating kids like a uniform commodity where there is a single clear desired end.
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Feb 20, 2017 18:49
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Even still, the "go to college of bust" movement was big in the '90s. Clinton was big on pushing college as the raison d'être for high school (and HS was the goal for middle school).
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Feb 20, 2017 20:49
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I mean, we already have a broken system where the rich get a great world-class education and the poor get a sub-third world education. Saying the best way to fix social mobility is to saddle the poor with an unpayable debt seems perverse in the extreme.
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Feb 20, 2017 21:04
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We should also incorporate a comprehensive voucher system like Finland. Let's fix primary and secondary education before we worry about tertiary education.
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Feb 20, 2017 21:53
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You are right. I was totally thinking of Sweden.
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Feb 21, 2017 00:40
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| # ¿ May 4, 2024 09:59 |
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JeffersonClay posted:I interact with around 30 schools and can confirm a good principal, and good administration in general, make a big difference. I've also worked in a school with a bad principal and inept administration in general and can confirm it impacts the classroom significantly. It's like building your own island fortress of competence in a sea of disorder. That's probably more true with SpEd, though. I know doxxing is against the rules, so I'm OK with the probation I'm sure I'll get but: Welcome Betsy! At your next conference, someone will ask you if you have "stairs in your house." I haven't liked many of your posts, but I applaud you being willing to really "delve deep" and spend time with the opposition. Together, hopefully, we can all work towards proving ourselves wrong about each other.
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Mar 14, 2017 04:51
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