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That wasn't really the point I was getting at, so I probably just worded it badly. I agree there's no problem with warlocks who want to be warlocks outside the traditional definition of warlock, thats cool and good. My problem is people who play with classes and multiclass just in an effort to become powergamus maximus as you put it. So yeah I generally agree with you. But if somebody wants to be a warlock solely because rogue is bad I'd rather homebrew something that we're both happy with than engage in warlock as rogue. Oh and the one point I'll be stubborn about: if somebody is powergaming in my group the one and only answer is 'gently caress off'. If somebody derives their pleasure in dnd by making numbers bigger I can't fix that and they just have to find another group.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:46
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I'm willing to chalk it up to a miscommunication, sure. I still think there's more grey area than you're allowing for but again, as long as your group is happy, that's the important thing. Some people are over the moon playing ultra modded ultra "realistic" count-all-your-arrows-because-they-need-to-last campaigns, some people enjoy playing The World's Largest Dungeon, etc.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:04
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yeah, there is no wrong way to enjoy dnd, only wrong ways to play with me. There is so many ways to enjoy tabletop games and lots of people have their own methods. I'm just railing against people who don't fit in my games more or less.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:08
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I completely agree that minmaxing powergamer mcmunchkins are annoying people to play with. "Watch me solo this party encounter because I am so good. Stand back and bask in my glory.  " 
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Mar 8, 2017 19:48
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I actually played with a guy who was worse than powergaming spergs in my last group. He didn't want to put any effort into actually learning his character or any of his abilities, but would also whine for like three sessions if he forgot to use one. Five sessions in and he still didn't know how many dice of damage his greatsword did (the one he had as starting equipment).
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Mar 8, 2017 19:59
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5th edition anyone can be a rogue. I like wood elf dex based fighters (with one-handed fighting focus for a really nasty rapier attack) with the urchin or criminal background to pick up the thiefy skills. You won't have ALL of the thief stuff, but Stealth and thieves tools proficiency and one other roguey skill is more than enough. 5e is cool that way. Rogues are awesome in 5e though.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:10
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Rogues should be awesome. But really so should every class. Please never 3.5 monks again.  Classless systems can be pretty good, or with soft classes that doesn't lock you out of anything.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:42
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Poil posted:Rogues should be awesome. But really so should every class. Please never 3.5 monks again. 3.5 monks and paladins need too many good stats. Give your monk/paladin players three guaranteed 15s and let them roll the other three, if you do rolls. Otherwise, bonus points. Monks need good str dex con and wisdom to even function, plus they need a decent intelligence to even make use of their ok skill list (2+into mod but a large list of skills? What?) if they're going to fulfill any out of combat role. Paladins need good str con wisdom and cha to function, and once again, can really benefit from an ok intelligence. Rogues can function fine with just a high dex score. Casters only need one high score (yes, even druids and clerics) and fighters rangers and barbarians can get by with two good scores, and though they'll always benefit from more good scores, their core class features aren't hamstrung without them.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:59
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Pvt.Scott posted:3.5 monks and paladins need too many good stats. Give your monk/paladin players three guaranteed 15s and let them roll the other three, if you do rolls. Otherwise, bonus points. Monks need good str dex con and wisdom to even function, plus they need a decent intelligence to even make use of their ok skill list (2+into mod but a large list of skills? What?) if they're going to fulfill any out of combat role. Paladins need good str con wisdom and cha to function, and once again, can really benefit from an ok intelligence. Druids are crazy, they can manage with good wisdom and a 6 in every other stat. Also I read somewhere that warlocks don't really need any stats, sure they're better if the have them but they're still playable even with a zero point buy.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:40
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Poil posted:After playing with people who always manage roll up great stats (legitimately, in front of everyone), point buy all the time! That's why I don't really generally care what stats my player's PCs have in 3.5/Pathfinder poo poo. After a few sessions I'll have their power roughly pegged anyway (which includes teamwork and actually exploiting abilities) and just eyeball encounters. If I make a character, I'm a crazy sperglord powergaming optimizer, but since I usually play with laid back people who don't give a poo poo, I use that knowledge to craft weird characters that are still useful to the party. Like the time I played a commoner as the party tank for shits and giggles and nobody really noticed. Smart race/stat/feat/skill selection and solid tactical play go a long way some times. I'm more into 5e or stuff derived from OD&D these days, though.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:53
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Pvt.Scott posted:That's why I don't really generally care what stats my player's PCs have in 3.5/Pathfinder poo poo. After a few sessions I'll have their power roughly pegged anyway (which includes teamwork and actually exploiting abilities) and just eyeball encounters. If I make a character, I'm a crazy sperglord powergaming optimizer, but since I usually play with laid back people who don't give a poo poo, I use that knowledge to craft weird characters that are still useful to the party. Like the time I played a commoner as the party tank for shits and giggles and nobody really noticed. Smart race/stat/feat/skill selection and solid tactical play go a long way some times. The approach of optimizing something really dumb is my favorite way of building characters in Pathfinder/3.5. Really I think the most important thing is that characters are on similar power levels so nobody feels useless and encounter design isn't a total nightmare for the DM. That and actually having a decent character concept and putting some effort into roleplaying of course.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:25
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The ideology eater posted:The approach of optimizing something really dumb is my favorite way of building characters in Pathfinder/3.5. Really I think the most important thing is that characters are on similar power levels so nobody feels useless and encounter design isn't a total nightmare for the DM. That and actually having a decent character concept and putting some effort into roleplaying of course. There's also nothing more fun than surprising your own party with the ability to do something your class doesn't. I once played a rogue in Pathfinder that picked up a feat that let him cast a level 1 wizard spell x number of times per day (based on int bonus I think, you had to pick a specific spell and your rogue levels counted as caster levels for scaling purposes). Announcing to the party that my character had pointed a finger gun at the enemy, said "BANG", and shot x number of magic missiles from his fingertip always led to some pretty hilarious reactions Never could get a DM to agree that I should get sneak attack dice the first time I used it in an encounter, though. Come on, who the hell would ever see it coming?
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Mar 9, 2017 05:09
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RickVoid posted:There's also nothing more fun than surprising your own party with the ability to do something your class doesn't. I once played a rogue in Pathfinder that picked up a feat that let him cast a level 1 wizard spell x number of times per day (based on int bonus I think, you had to pick a specific spell and your rogue levels counted as caster levels for scaling purposes). Announcing to the party that my character had pointed a finger gun at the enemy, said "BANG", and shot x number of magic missiles from his fingertip always led to some pretty hilarious reactions You get sneak attack dice by RAW for spells with attack rolls (touch, ranged touch etc). While thematically appropriate for magic missile, what with its unerring accuracy, the fact that it is multiple projectiles that cannot miss would lead to some hilariously abusive funtimes. There's no actual attack roll and if you took a one level dip into sorcerer you could be putting out fireballs worth of damage in every fight, but fireballs that allow no save. If it was a table of minmaxers, knock yourself out, otherwise I'd say no as well.
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Mar 9, 2017 16:56
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Pvt.Scott posted:You get sneak attack dice by RAW for spells with attack rolls (touch, ranged touch etc). While thematically appropriate for magic missile, what with its unerring accuracy, the fact that it is multiple projectiles that cannot miss would lead to some hilariously abusive funtimes. There's no actual attack roll and if you took a one level dip into sorcerer you could be putting out fireballs worth of damage in every fight, but fireballs that allow no save. If it was a table of minmaxers, knock yourself out, otherwise I'd say no as well. 100% accurate, I always asked in jest. I mean, imagine what it would be like at a high enough level to have multiple missiles per shot. Do I get to roll sneak attack dice for every target hit? Insanity. It would be the DnD equivalent of walking into room and doing this. Only 4+int bonus times per day.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:40
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sneak attack specifically says only once per round, unfortunate for dual wielders.
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Mar 9, 2017 18:52
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One of my favourite characters I ever played was an Enlightened Fist (monk/mage - a literal Punchwizard) with a focus on elemental touch attacks. I was the Avatar, motherfuckers!
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Mar 9, 2017 19:47
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Agent355 posted:sneak attack specifically says only once per round, unfortunate for dual wielders. Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment. That's straight from the Paizo page and 3.5 didn't cap it to one attack either. I believe 4e and 5e do, but they both work on completely different sets of powers and scales of abilities. I've played with several GMs that house-ruled it that way, and beyond early levels, rogues don't have enough punch to be useful in serious encounters without the extra damage. (Say you attack a DR 15 monster, your d4 or d6 +1 damage is pointless, while the fighter happily power attacks and the casters bypass the DR with magic) In 3e stuff, the only special thing a rogue really has is his buckets of damage if he gets into position. Hell, until Pathfinder, a rogue couldn't even use sneak attack on half the poo poo you fought anyway. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 22:03
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So it's like the houserule that a 1 on the attack roll doesn't just miss, it causes severe fumbling damage to yourself?
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Mar 9, 2017 22:15
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Yes
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Mar 9, 2017 22:20
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Poil posted:So it's like the houserule that a 1 on the attack roll doesn't just miss, it causes severe fumbling damage to yourself? I've seen a high level monk break all four limbs of his limbs (lvl 20+) in one round of combat because of multiple fumbles. Missing is already bad enough, Christ. Remember, this is a martial artist that has honed and perfected his body so much that he no longer ages and has ascended into a heavenly form and is no longer whatever race they started as. Snapping their own limbs like a spaz. I don't stay at tables like that for long. Dude playing the monk was hella salty about it, too. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 22:26
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The more skilled you are the more attacks you make and therefore more chances at cutting your own leg off. 
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Mar 9, 2017 22:35
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Poil posted:The more skilled you are the more attacks you make and therefore more chances at cutting your own leg off. Yeah, with crit fumbles, the more skilled you are, the more likely you are to seriously injure yourself. Level three, 8 damage hurts. Level 15, 65 damage from your two-handed power attack hurts pretty badly, plus oops you failed your save and your soul is stuck in the sword forever. Thems the breaks
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Mar 9, 2017 22:39
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I'm catching up on the videos and I'm watching the Athens video now. Coincidentally, I was eating Amato's when Agent was talking about Amato's and how every long sandwich up here is an Italian. 
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Mar 10, 2017 00:28
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Sorry to interrupt D&D chat but I have a new video for y'all As we talk about in the video, Act 2 is really cool and good. That being said the whole thing is basically macguffin quests but wugd?
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Mar 11, 2017 04:17
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IMO prob something like this would be good http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc....4-1-0-0-0-4-3-0 for getting into Act 3. You guys will prob respec at 32 cause Distort Reality will prob do a lot more for you than Distortion Wave. Eyeball also gets a new move at 5/12. Really I dunno what's better, Psionic Touch or Calculated Strike. If you go, CS you get piercing and can use other skill points for something else, since the passive unlocked by it is pretty bad. OTOH PT has dots and PBAoEs and poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:53
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I wouldn't mind the occasional look at the gear or when you make swaps or something.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:34
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Yeah, I'd be up for more inventory management on-screen, for what it's worth. Finding cool loot and then making use of cool loot is a big part of the game. Also I had the video on in the background for a bit so I may have missed it, but did you guys try out the pet-targeting button? I'm sort of curious how well that works now.
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Mar 12, 2017 23:04
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Yeah I think a little bit of looking at gear would probably not be a bad thing as long as it doesnt take up half the video or something.
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Mar 14, 2017 21:38
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I will fire up my inventory a bit more often in the future then. Unfortunately I grabbed some really good stuff a while back so I haven't switched much around for a while. Shits been so crazy for me lately that I can't even remember what we did in this video!
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Mar 14, 2017 22:30
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Blackmage Yapo posted:I will fire up my inventory a bit more often in the future then. Unfortunately I grabbed some really good stuff a while back so I haven't switched much around for a while. What the? How did you end up in Tennessee?
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Mar 15, 2017 05:52
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I am very triggered that you don't put in that one lousy point which gives your pet a new attack.
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Mar 15, 2017 06:36
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Pvt.Scott posted:What the? How did you end up in Tennessee? Tennessee is starting to become a common theme for this LP, not sure how that happened. BTW since we've been talking about it so much there is a weekend sale on steam for Grim Dawn, its down to like $13 http://store.steampowered.com/app/219990
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Mar 17, 2017 17:01
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Blackmage Yapo posted:Tennessee is starting to become a common theme for this LP, not sure how that happened. Excellent. I haven't quite caught up on videos yet, so I was just making the needful Memphis reference. I'm glad to know it came up. Grim Dawn is totally worth the money, holy crap. Also, if you play Titan Quest along at home, talk to NPCs, even the ones without quests. Multiple times. Before and after completing quests in the area. There is a ton of dialog in this game, all voiced. The storytellers will even regale you with the Cliff's Notes version of their religion's myths that are tangentially related to the plot. Like in the very first village, you hear all about Heracles and how great that guy is. You get told that he's not here loving poo poo up because the gods rewarded him by taking him into heaven for being a cool swolebro. He laments that there are no such heroes around to save the day. This reinforces the point that the ball is in your character's court, even before you learn that the gods unwillingly are absent.
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Mar 17, 2017 17:27
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The awesome thing about Hercules is that he wasn't just accepted in no. He set up a pyre and self immolated himself to destroy his mortal form so he could ascend to his divine heritage. 
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Mar 17, 2017 19:52
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It's Friday so new video time! We finally do the cool circular route we've been talking about for ages! We also delve deep into a bunch of tombs and see some cool bosses. So we've already recorded the next video, but after it ended I went through and took off a bunch of skill points from things I'm not really using. As it stands right now, I have 9 unused skill points, and this is my current build. I'd be happy to entertain suggestions for what to do with my points. I'm thinking maybe pick up Distort Reality and Phantom Strike out of the Dream mastery and maybe Throwing Knife from Rogue (it gets real good when you hit max level and throw like 4 of them) Blackmage Yapo fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 21:40
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This was something Agent355 talked about a while ago, but there is a pet attack target click. It's the select all pets in the key binds. http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc....0-0-1-0-0-5-0-0 That's where I'd go next, but that's my massive love for OA/DA talking. ssmagus fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 13:51
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IMO http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc....0-3-0-0-0-5-1-0 I removed Temporal Flux to prevent player speed differences, despite being a dope passive. Deffo take Distort Reality and Phantom Strike. I wouldn't take Throwing Knives. Folks here seem to think poison is the poo poo so unless you decide to go into bleeding, I'd say just focus on traps, Blade Honing and Lethal Strike. Don't up Eyeball's Hypnotic gaze past 1. It's .5 sec per SP. Is that really worth it? Especially since you might have poison do it for you? Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 11:48
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My original plan was to ignore a lot of the passives until we got in to the higher difficulties. Since dream has the straight percentage boosts it'll help a whole lot more once we start struggling.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:47
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Doublepost but now in Titan Quest Anniversary Edition proper is on sale through Humble for $4. If you maybe wanted to try it now is a good time to get in https://www.humblebundle.com/store/titan-quest-anniversary-edition
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Mar 20, 2017 18:47
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I just bought a copy for a friend, maybe he'll take the hint and we'll get to quest together.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:39
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