Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Seldom Posts
Jul 4, 2010

Grimey Drawer

delfin posted:

Well, thanks to the wonderful resource that is The Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe, we know of an Earth-20051 counterpart to Null the Living Darkness that is...

different.

I read this comic and it was good as it sounds.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Seldom Posts
Jul 4, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Lurdiak posted:

The only other Avenger who sucks as much as Mantis is Dr. Druid, but that guy sucks so much that it's kind of endearing. Like his entire life is just an endless series of fuckups, but he still acts like Dr. Orpheus the whole time. Like this one time he came into Ghost Rider's comic, nearly killed him, exposed his secret identity, caused him to go into a rage that made him a wanted man and terrified his love interest, then when he finally figured out that he'd hosed up he just left while Blaze was passed out. Didn't even leave a "sorry I hosed up your entire life" note.

Seldom Posts
Jul 4, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Edge & Christian posted:

I mean, Monica because Avengers chairperson in Avengers 279 (written by Stern) and stays chairperson for the whole of Stern's run. Steve Rogers leaves the team in Avengers 284, and Stern leaves partway through issue 287. Ralph Macchio fills in as the writer from 287-290, and 290 has a plot assist from Mark Gruenwald where he is literally whisked into the scene by a Cosmic Cube and he beats some newfangled Super Adaptoid because it cannot adapt TO HIS SPIRIT AND COURAGE. The story set up by Stern (with a bunch of different AI characters) is abruptly resolved with that, and Simonson picks up with issue 291, where Steve Rogers is gone without any mention and Monica is still the chairperson.

....

I'm not really sure what that storyline was (I guess the Walt Simonson death-and-rebirth of the Avengers??) but it sounds like it went through so many revisions from pitch meeting to print that it wasn't nearly the character assassination of Monica Rambeau as it might have originally been.

I faithfully read the Avengers as young kid all through the Stern era, and thought the siege of the mansion was the greatest thing ever. Then the super adaptoid story ending the way it did sort of threw me for a loop. But I was back on Board for the Simonson run, which was marketed as "the end of the Avengers" and again, pre-teen me thought it was a cracking story.

Then with Avengers #300 or #301, they changed the team, the approach, everything, gilgamesh was on the team and so was Reed Richards. I read a few more issues, but hated the change in direction. I also loved the New U, which got cancelled around that time. Between that and the Avengers, I basically said good bye to comics for about 20 years, missing the entire xtreme 90s.

I guess my point is that Marvel editorial seemed to be really taking a poo poo around that time and it was only going to get worse.

Seldom Posts
Jul 4, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Edge & Christian posted:

The Island stuff was later, the basic lineage of Avengers (which was also the first book I started collecting as a little kid, Seldom Posts!) was that Roger Stern took it over from Jim Shooter way back with issue 227 in late 1982. Over time he got sick of having his stuff derailed by whatever was going on in [Cap/Thor/Iron Man/whatever] and so he really leaned into having most of the team be b-listers without their own titles. This was when there was a whole lot of focus on Wasp, Captain Marvel, Black Knight, Hercules, Namor, Vision, Scarlet Witch, etc.

Then came the whole "bring back Cap and Thor and show how they're the Real Best Avengers" edict and Stern quit after five years of actually pretty great superhero comics.

GPTribefan posted:

Holy poo poo, Are you me??

Avengers was BY FAR my favorite book growing up. Siege of Avenger's Mansion is still my all time favorite story, and I could re-read the entire Stern run monthly and never get bored with it. He did so much with the Wasp and Black Knight, made Hercules a great character, completely invented captain marvel and elevated Monica to a HUGE status. He did an amazing Kang story, that great Olympus 5-parter after Siege, and even the start of the really cool "Heavy Metal" story, but what followed after Simonson (who essentially just took the abbreviated Time Bubble story and did it to perfection in his FF run) was just a clusterfuck. I stuck with that book until the end of the Proctor/Gatherers storyline and I just couldn't take any more. The biggest lowlights were:


High-fives to all the old school Stern fans.

In retrospect I really appreciate the cool stuff he did with the neglected characters, particularly women. You'll never convince me that the Wasp is not a badass after the way she ran the Avengers. That issue where she and Scott Lang fight Absorbing Man and Titania is one of my all time favs.

Seldom Posts
Jul 4, 2010

Grimey Drawer
I have a lot of sympathy for Tigra because she was part of the original west coast avengers, which when it started (in a four issue limited series) was pretty explicitly a B-team--the leader was hawkeye, out to prove himself, who promptly hired his wife, mockingbird, who also had no superpowers. Then they had Tigra, (my recollection is she joined because she had nothing better to do) Wonder man (who was mostly focused on his acting career) and James Rhodes Iron Man, who was still in his "am I the substitute or the real deal?" phase.

  • Locked thread