wonder what esr is up to

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > wonder what esr is up to

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

fritz posted:

These are dates that every hacker knew were important at the time, or shortly afterwards. I�ve tried to concentrate on milestones for which the date - or the milestone itself - seems to have later passed out of folk memory.

1997
I first give the "Cathedral and Bazaar" talk.

lol

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:09

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 23:29

TOOT BOOT: May 25, 2010

I don't think ESR could write about his last bowel movement without being self-aggrandizing

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:19

Roosevelt: Jul 18, 2009; I'm looking for the man who shot my paw.

he's giving me the thousand yard stare

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:21

neutral milf hotel: Oct 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Roosevelt posted:

he's giving me the thousand yard stare

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:30

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Doc Block posted:

"gently caress." is indeed the correct response when esr announces he's started paying attention to a mailing list again.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-August/008030.html

Guido posted:

[ESR]
> 1. Has anybody got a vote on the menubrowser framwork facility I described?

Eric, as far as I can tell you haven't shown the code or given a
pointer to it. I explained to you that your description left me in
the dark as to what it does. Or did I miss a pointer? It seems your
module doesn't even have a name! This is a bad way to start a
discussion about the admission procedure. Nothing has ever been
accepted into Python before the code was written and shown.

> 1. Do we have a procedure for vetting modules for inclusion in the stock
> distribution? If not, should be institute one?

Typically, modules get accepted after extensive lobbying and agreement
from multiple developers. The definition of "developer" is vague, and
I can't give a good rule -- not everybody who has been admitted to the
python-dev list has enough standing to make his opinion count!

Basically, I rely a lot on what various people say, but I have my own
bias about who I trust in what area. I don't think I'll have to
publish a list of this bias, but one thing is clear: I;m not counting
votes! Proposals and ideas get approved based on merit, not on how
many people argue for (or against) it. I want Python to keep its
typical Guido-flavored style, and (apart from the occasional succesful
channeling by TP) there's only one way to do that: let me be the final
arbiter. I'm willing to be the bottleneck, it gives Python the
typical slow-flowing evolution that has served it well over the past
ten years. (At the same time, I can't read all messages in every
thread on python-dev any more -- that's why substantial ideas need a
PEP to summarize the discussion.)

> 2. I am willing to do a pass through the Vaults of Parnassus and other
> sources for modules that seem both sufficiently useful and sufficiently
> mature to be added. I have in mind things like mimectl, PIL, and Vladimir's
> shared-memory module.

I don't know mimectl or Vladimir's module (how does it compare to
mmap?). Regarding PIL, I believe the problem there is that it is a
large body of code maintained by a third party. It should become part
of a SUMO release and of binary releases, but I see no advantage in
carrying it along in the core source distribution.

> Now, assuming I do 3, would I need to go through the vote process
> on each of these, or can I get a ukase from the BDFL authorizing me to
> fold in stuff?

Sorry, I don't write blank checks.

> I realize I'm raising questions for which there are no easy answers.
> But Python is growing. The Python social machine needs to adapt to
> make such decisions in a more timely and less ad-hoc fashion. I'm
> not attached to being the point person in this process, but
> somebody's gotta be.

Watch out though: if we open the floodgates now we may seriously
deteriorate the quality of the standard library, without doing much
good.

I'd much rather see an improved Vaults of Parnassus (where every
module uses distutils and installation becomes trivial) than a
fast-track process for including new code in the core.

That said, I think writing a bunch of thoughts up as a PEP makes a lot
of sense!

(raymond posted the code. it was declined as not generally useful)

aside from that he wrote some docs for curses.wrapper, said that certain things were good ideas and someone should do them, and argued about whether xml is a language

and of course signed every e-mail with a random quote about wanting to shoot someone

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:50

George: Nov 27, 2004; No love for your made-up things.

anyone have his encyclopedia britannica entry for open source

i remember it being peak esr

# ? Feb 20, 2017 00:35

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

TOOT BOOT posted:

I don't think ESR could write about his last bowel movement without being self-aggrandizing

quote:

On was: their skin color looks fecal. The other was: their bone structure doesn�t look human. And they�re just off-reference enough to be much more creepy than if they looked less like people, like bad CGI or shambling undead in a B movie. When I paid close enough attention, these were the three basic data under the revulsion; my hindbrain thought it was surrounded by alien poo poo zombies.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 01:45

Bulgakov: Mar 8, 2009; рукописи не горят

the style of writing that sounds like its stuck tipping a hat to m'lady

the self-assured stink of hollow smarts

its bad !!

# ? Feb 20, 2017 01:55

minivanmegafun: Jul 27, 2004

eschaton posted:

the ti computer in particular was goofy as gently caress, being its own weird 16-bit CPU (TMS9900) and then they hamstrung the poor thing with a 256 byte memory attached directly to the CPU and then an 8-bit bus to page the remaining 16K of shared video ram

plus the original price of the thing was aimed somewhere between the Apple II and the vic-20 and no one bought it at that price. eventually they put the price low enough to sell millions, and took a loss on each one.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 02:30

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

Bulgakov posted:

the self-assured stink of hollow smarts

he's using the term "off-reference", a term exclusively from the animation industry meaning "when you draw a character in a way that doesn't quite match the way it's supposed to look", to try and explain the concept of a human being who doesn't look like him, a pale pudgy balding untermensch, because he has developed his vocabulary entirely through pop-nerd-culture

# ? Feb 20, 2017 02:39

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

code:

git log --author thyrsus --format=oneline | cut -c 1-20 |
while read rev; do
    git diff ${rev}^ $rev |
    sed -e '/^diff/,/^+++/d' |
    grep '^[-+]' |
    cut -c 1
done |
sort -r | uniq -c

Emacs (1985-present):
28134 -
44794 +

Python (1990-present):
1298 -
2575 +

NTPsec (1999-present):
570686 -
208250 +

Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 20, 2017

# ? Feb 20, 2017 03:32

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

so he brought up his "dates every hacker should know" thing on a list we're on, and I pointed out that he was missing a few things and quite wrong about others

he took it about as well as you'd expect

# ? Feb 20, 2017 03:56

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

i went ahead and refined the stats a little because i do want to be fair and also i can't pass up a chance to shell script

code:

amd()
{
    local line first n=0
    sed -e '/^diff/,/^+++/d' |
    grep -v '^@@' |
    while read line; do
        if [ "^$line" != '^~' ]; then
           ((n == 0)) && first="$line"
           ((++n))
           continue
        fi
        if ((n == 0)); then :
        elif ((n > 1)); then echo modified
        elif [[ "^$first" == ^+* ]]; then echo added
        elif [[ "^$first" == ^-* ]]; then echo deleted
        fi
        n=0
    done
}

git log --author=thyrsus --format=oneline | cut -c 1-20 |
while read rev; do
    git diff ${rev}^ $rev --word-diff=porcelain | amd
done |
sort | uniq -c

Emacs:
30999 added
17243 deleted
7855 modified

Python:
1338 added
�241 deleted
�995 modified

NTPsec:
152225 added
470953 deleted
31458 modified

(for entertainment purposes only)

Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Feb 20, 2017

# ? Feb 20, 2017 04:49

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

"hacker identity" is just another way of saying "poor"

# ? Feb 20, 2017 08:48

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

Gazpacho posted:

"hacker identity" is just another way of saying "poor"

also "big jerk nobody wants to work with"

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:22

George: Nov 27, 2004; No love for your made-up things.

esr is the ultimate guy you don't want on your mailing list

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:42

jony ive aces: Jun 14, 2012; designer of the lomarf car; Buglord

George posted:

esr is the ultimate guy you don't want on your mailing list

unless you're ted kaczynski

# ? Feb 20, 2017 11:37

Roosevelt: Jul 18, 2009; I'm looking for the man who shot my paw.

jony ive aces posted:

unless you're ted kaczynski

# ? Feb 20, 2017 15:28

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

jony ive aces posted:

unless you're ted kaczynski

excellent silly remark

# ? Feb 20, 2017 16:36

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

I am very sad that Everybody loves Eric Raymond is dead.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:42

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

esr_hotel_party.jpg

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:09

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

graph posted:

esr_hotel_party.jpg

no don't

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:13

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

minivanmegafun posted:

the ti computer in particular was goofy as gently caress, being its own weird 16-bit CPU (TMS9900) and then they hamstrung the poor thing with a 256 byte memory attached directly to the CPU and then an 8-bit bus to page the remaining 16K of shared video ram

the 256 byte memory was SRAM, not DRAM. it was intended to be the register file for the cpu, because early 1980s chips didn't have room for on-die registers

the ti-99 series looks a lot less goofy when you keep this in mind

# ? Feb 20, 2017 19:06

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Gazpacho posted:

i went ahead and refined the stats a little because i do want to be fair and also i can't pass up a chance to shell script

[...]

NTPsec:
152225 added
470953 deleted
31458 modified

[...]

so i went and looked at the 'git blame' output for ntpsec

esr's primary "contributions":

touch every file in the repo to delete a 100+ line license preamble
touch every file in the repo to eliminate the ISC equivalent of 'gettext,' rendering ntpsec non-localizable

he actually made the codebase worse lol

# ? Feb 20, 2017 19:11

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

so i went and looked at the 'git blame' output for ntpsec

esr's primary "contributions":

touch every file in the repo to delete a 100+ line license preamble

touch every file in the repo to eliminate the ISC equivalent of 'gettext,' rendering ntpsec non-localizable

he actually made the codebase worse lol

I think those are good things to do, but perhaps not something that needs funding from the Core Infrastructure Initiative.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 19:53

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the 256 byte memory was SRAM, not DRAM. it was intended to be the register file for the cpu, because early 1980s chips didn't have room for on-die registers

what

the 68000 was 1979, though I'll grant that it was probably way more expensive than the 9900

quote:

the ti-99 series looks a lot less goofy when you keep this in mind

the TI-99 makes more sense when you realize the 9900 was a single-chip implementation of TI's 16-bit minicomputer architecture, which like many mini architectures didn't even really have a register file as such beyond a PC, flags, and maybe SP, just a fast cache of a certain range of low memory and a direct addressing mode for those locations

DEC did the same thing in the PDP-10 and probably other architectures, wouldn't surprise me if Data General was similar too

# ? Feb 20, 2017 19:53