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Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
I think he's talking about ryo not knowing.

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warhammer651
Jul 21, 2012
Argument still applies. You're not going to fight him, there's no plans to expand, so why worry about it. Complacency is a hell of a drug

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Part 2



I never understand healing staves in Fire Emblem. Do they just heal open wounds or bruises? Why can't a sprained ankle help?

Don't worry about it, Sis. We'll be OK.
Those stupid beasts don't stand a chance against me.
I hope you're right...



Sakura and Hinoka are stuck in the upper left, with a bunch of enemies spread across the middle. Corrin and company arrive in the lower right.



It's important to scout ahead and look for any troublesome areas.



Okay, so let's check out who our villains are today.



Monsters, apparently from Nohr. A lot of these things have new abilities that will really put the hurt on the team.

Seal Defense-After combat, reduce enemy by -6 defense.
Seal Strength-After combat, reduce enemy -6 strength.

Seal X moves are a new addition to Fates which debuff enemies after combat. And as you can tell, they hurt you a LOT, as -6 means at least 6 levels of defense reduction and you only regain full defense once 6 turns pass. Debuffs reduce by 1 as each turn passes by.

Poison Strike-If the unit initiates attack, reduce enemy by 20% HP after combat.

Arguably one of the nastiest skills in the game, Poison Strike reduce what remaining hp you have by 20% maximum HP. That means literally any enemy will be reduced to 1 HP after 5 attacks no matter how weak the Poison striker is.



PSkill: Quiet Strength-Allies within two spaces take -2 damage

Bloom Festival-A healing stave with 1-2 range

Sakura is a good healer with an amazing skill that keeps frontline units alive without being at risk of ranged units sneaking in and hunting her down. Keeping synergy with that plan are the 1-2 range healing staves that Hoshido employ, giving her both safety and mobility to helping the team.

She also comes with Miracle but eh.



Sky Knight is the Fates version of Pegasus Knights because...they want to be different or something.

PSkill: Rallying Cry-Allies within two spaces deal +2 damage
Darting Blow-Gain +5 speed when attacking

Hinoka hurts things and makes others hurt things just as hard if not harder. If you want to start off a strong offense, have her lead the way and plan your offense around her aura. Darting Blow is a Sky Knight skill that makes even the slowest characters have a chance to double or avoid getting doubled while going on the offensive.

Steel Naginata is a good showing of the new weapon balance. Well, sort of. Naginata are the Hoshidan lances, except they give innate +1 DEF/RES because screw you Nohr. Steel weapons effectively lower your speed by 3 when equipped, so you're trading speed and possibly being doubled for more power.



Rinkah's back, as our side for now. Only new thing is Seal Resistance, which is the base skill for Oni Savages.



Kaze shows off Locktouch, signaling that Ninjas are the Thief archtype of Fates.



PSkill: Bushido-When user is the lead unit, if their Level is higher than their support unit’s Level, Critical rate +10, damage +2 and damage received -2

Duelist's Blow-When user triggers the battle, Avoid +30

Ryoma's stats aren't anything too special for a promoted unit, but he becomes incredibly powerful when paired-up, drastically increasing his damage while also increasing his defense. But the real reason why Ryoma is the god of Hoshido is Raijinto.



Yeah, you're reading that right. An unlimited 1-2 range physical sword with 11 MT and gives +4 strength. With Katanas giving innate +1 SPD, -1 DEF/RES, Ryoma goes from above-average to a tornado of destruction. It also gives 10 avoid because why not.

(He has Vantage, too. Unfair)



Please use it as necessary, Lord Corrin.

Anyways, actual rescue time. Kaze reminding us how Vulnerarys heal us, yada yada



We should warn them to stay out of harm's way!

Visit villages to get items and lore info.



Please, take this. Good luck!

Free Goddess Icon, which means free gold cause Luck is still meh.



So Corrin and friends are going to traverse through the snow while all those Faceless inch closer to the sisters.



Did you see that? The entire hill just disintegrated! Is that the power of a Dragon Vein? I had no idea...
To harness the ancient dragon powers is truly a magnificent gift. Yet I wonder if even the royals who wield that power can fully control it...
Still, strategically using Dragon Vein could the key to this rescue.

The main gimmick of this map is for Corrin to open up Dragon Veins to move quicker, because the Faceless will easily kill Sakura otherwise if you dally too much.



Sakura isn't going to have problems surviving, it's the bottom Faceless creeping up that's the main issue. Well, sort of. You don't get anything for saving Sakura and character deaths don't matter before The Big Decision.



They pull their arms out of their sockets or something. Real freaky.



Or, you can allow them to engage the enemy as they see fit. Just be careful to never let your guard down!

No, Ryo. I will not loving use auto-battle ever again.



You see that Dragon Vein? Never ever activate it. Doing it will have those swarm of the highest level Faceless rush you, and Sakura will certainly die then. Continue to go around up top and then to the left.

Hold strong, Sisters! I'm coming for you!



Wow, 78 already. I don't remembers numbers going that high in Awakening so early.



A slight correction from the last fight, there is a reason why it's 10 blips for Guard meter instead of 5. Paired-characters separated get half of the meter, and you lose 1 meter for each turn of non-combat.



We should get close and try to speak to one of them. *Moves towards Hinoka*
Hey, are you all right? We're here to help.
Yeah, we're fine. Who are you? I thought I knew most of my brother's troops. Anyway, I appreciate the help, but it's really not necessary. It takes more than a few dozen 800-pound monsters to bring me down!
Well, I'm glad you're feeling confident. Just know that we've got your back.



Hmm?
I didn't mean to be dismissive. Thank you for coming all the way out here. I owe you one...so take this. you can use it in a pinch to heal your wounds. Now really, don't worry about me. I'm at my best in situations like this!
Thank you. I'll use this wisely.



Oh, sorry. I'm Corrin. Nice to meet you. *leaevss*
Corrin? Corrin?! This can't be a coincidence!

Hino gives us a Concoction, which is good because I ended up using all the heals.



While those two were yapping away, Kaze was busy cleaning up the surrounding enemies. He loves speed and only speed, so get used to seeing these type of gains.



Oh! Th-thank you so much.
Yes, we're OK...for n-now.
Excellent. I think we have things under control at the moment.
But please stay back for the time being. We'll take care of the rest of the monsters. *Leaves*
Yes, of c-course.



Yeah, she has a nervous tic in her speech. Which is weird, because she doesn't stutter at all during her voiced lines. Makes me think they forgot to add that in her VA notes or something.



Anyways, it's just clean-up since Ryo is gonna chill with his sisters now.



All 4 will attack when you melt the hill they're on, so having Kaze save some Guard Meter is helpful cause otherwise Corrin isn't surviving the onslaught.



Corrin, I seriously need you to gain defense at some point.



Rotating my crew so Rinkah gain some levels, since I'm going Birthright on the first run. Otherwise I would solo everything with Corrin.



This is a highly unusual level, considering the growths she has that I'll show later.



Those monsters would have caused a lot more damage if you hadn't come. I have to ask, though...Who are you?
Oh, my name is-



Er, yes. Nice to meet you properly.
Hinoka? Are you OK?





S-sorry...
Oh! Um...
Hinoka was so attached to you when you were little, Corrin.
When you were taken from us, she cried for months. One day she stopped crying and picked up the naginata. And I will say...if you ever find yourself facing the business end of her weapon....
...you will soon be filled with major regrets about your life decisions. She vowed to bring you back to us someday...




[All translations by https://kantopia.wordpress.com/]

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

I coulda sworn Steel weapons only affected your ability to double and left your chances of being doubled alone.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!

ChaosArgate posted:

I coulda sworn Steel weapons only affected your ability to double and left your chances of being doubled alone.

Almost, the AS penalty isn't counted toward your avoid, just doubling/getting doubled.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ozdhaka posted:

Yeah, and that lack of a deft hand on the writing team meant I was struggling to not just hit Start and just go ignore the story altogether. I had a hard time slogging through the plots of the three paths as well as other associated bits, but we'll get to them when we get to them.
This is probably my biggest complaint with Fates. There are people listed as editors and the like in the credits, but sweet merciful Christ do they absolutely fail at their job. If just one of the editors (either on the original staff or the localization team) had put their foot down and took control of the ship, a lot of the problems with Fates' story might have been smoothed out.

If anything, Fates is a lesson on what happens when too many people are focused on doing the same job and don't step back to see the bigger picture before it's too late.


Tae posted:

While those two were yapping away, Kaze was busy cleaning up the surrounding enemies. He loves speed and only speed, so get used to seeing these type of gains.
Yeah...that's Kaze alright. He's useful, but if I had the power to tell him to gain something besides speed, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The guy refuses to even look at his strength, luck or defense gains at times and it gets frustrating very quickly.

RandomNinja
Sep 14, 2011

Protector of the innocent, assassin of the unjust, and a lover of delicious, sweet, creamy Ice cream.
The combat is these games were certainly interesting to me. Awakening was my first real FE game, so having more of what was essentially the same was a good thing. As for the story, thankfully you can just skip all of it with the start button.

InwardChaos
Oct 21, 2010

Before the beginning of great brilliance, there must be chaos.
Raijinto is even more insane compared to the other 1-2 range swords, because it has the additional range without any of the downsides.
In order to incentivize using actual ranged weapons (bows/magic/hidden weapons), "ranged melee" weapons, like Javelins and Hand Axes have the downside of not being able to trigger crits, skills, or double attacks.
Raijinto, on the other hand? It laughs as Ryoma unleashes skill boosted crits from outside of the opponent's attack range, and then repeats it again.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
One thing about Fates in general that bothers me is just how incredibly good all the royal characters are. Ryoma is especially blatant about it, but they all just get good bases, good growths, and half of them also get absurdly good unique equipment. In my opinion, they cross over from "good and fun to use" to "good and boring to use".

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

inthesto posted:

One thing about Fates in general that bothers me is just how incredibly good all the royal characters are. Ryoma is especially blatant about it, but they all just get good bases, good growths, and half of them also get absurdly good unique equipment. In my opinion, they cross over from "good and fun to use" to "good and boring to use".

I feel like the Nohr royals are better about this. Once we reach a certain map it will be easier to discuss this in more detail as we can actually compare the two families.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

ChaosArgate posted:

I coulda sworn Steel weapons only affected your ability to double and left your chances of being doubled alone.

Yeah, that's right like the description for Steel weapons say, it's -3 effective speed for the wielders chance to double, otherwise they would have just made it -3 Speed since steel weaponry already gives -5 avoid or something.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!

InwardChaos posted:

Raijinto is even more insane compared to the other 1-2 range swords, because it has the additional range without any of the downsides.
In order to incentivize using actual ranged weapons (bows/magic/hidden weapons), "ranged melee" weapons, like Javelins and Hand Axes have the downside of not being able to trigger crits, skills, or double attacks.
Raijinto, on the other hand? It laughs as Ryoma unleashes skill boosted crits from outside of the opponent's attack range, and then repeats it again.

Yeah, off the top of my head the only disadvantage is that him activating Astra from 2 Range has him look loving absurd. And that's not really a downside, just a visual problem.

ohmygorgon
Jul 13, 2016
Effective speed is pretty poorly explained in-game, and so many people seem to get confused by it. The easiest way to think about it is that a unit has two effective speeds, one that is used to determine if it performs a double attack, and one used to determine if its opponent gets to perform a double attack. The tricky part is that these two can be different numbers during the same exact battle.

For example, take Hinoka (who makes this even more confusing by having a skill that only changes effective speed on Player Phase):
Her speed is 15, if she attacks (assuming she initiates the attack) she has 17 effective speed when it comes to her own ability to double (+5 from darting blow, and -3 from the Steel Naginata, for +2 total). This means she will double any enemy with 12 effective speed or lower.

Now, when it comes to the enemy's ability to double her, she has 15 effective speed, because there is nothing changing that (She does not have 12 effective speed because Steel weapons do not change the unit's ability to BE doubled). This means that an enemy needs 20, not 17 speed to double her. There are weapons that do lower this type of effective speed. If Hinoka was using a Javelin, for example, her effective speed would become 10 (Javelin drops this effective speed by 5, which is indicated by saying it makes the user weak to follow up attacks, -5 speed) and as such, the enemy only needs 15 effective speed to double her. If Hinoka was on offense with the Javelin (again, assuming she initiates the attack) she would have 20 effective speed, from darting blow (which doesn't actually matter, since Javelins can not ever initiate double attacks).

Now there are also some weapons that effective both types of effective speed at the same time, meaning you could theoretically have a match where both units are able to perform followup attacks if their speeds are close enough. It's confusing, but it is not too difficult to keep track of once you understand how it works. And of course, changes in effective speed only affect the unit's ability to double or be doubled, the unit's speed, for anything else speed does (namely avoid), is whatever number you see on the stats screen. Sorry for the :bravo2: I just wanted to make sure everyone understood what was happening, since it obviously is relevant the entire game.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Part 3



But I'm just so happy to have you back. Take that, Nohrian scumbags! We win, you lose!
Wait...is this really Corrin?
Yes. I know it's big news. I'll fill you in on the whole story later. For now we should return to the castle before Nohr deploys more monsters.
Everyone, let's head home!
What were those things, anyway?



Creatures with no will of their own. Created by Nohrian mages.
I call 'em dead meat. But they're the only thing Nohr can throw at us right now. Our mother, Queen Mikoto, put up a magical barrier around our kingdom.



So long as Mother is able to keep the barrier up, Nohr can't invade Hoshido.

Uh...that sounds overpowered as hell.

That's why Nohr sends those...things. They have no souls-no will of their own. That's why they are able to penetrate the barrier and terrorize our borders.
But...the Nohrians wouldn't send monsters to terrorize innocent people...

Uh.............did you forget how you got here in the first place



See, she knows the deal

Sometimes the Faceless even turn on the mages who created them. But the Nohrians don't care. They're willing to sacrifice their own just to hurt others. I'll never forgive them for that, or for stealing you away. They'll pay for all the suffering they caused!
I can't believe it....

Oookay, moving on....

*Time passes as the group goes back to the castle*




*Corrin walks around further into the room*



Oh! That's a picture you drew when you were a little boy. This is your father, this is me, and that's you. It's so cute!
*sigh*
We couldn't bear to touch a thing in this room after you were taken. If we put your things away, it would have felt like giving up.
You've grown so much. I can't believe how handsome you are!



Oh?
I...I just don't know how to respond to your stories. I do believe I could be your child...But everyone here simply feels like a stranger to me.
I understand, Corrin. Please don't worry about it.
I'm so sorry. Here you are, maybe my real mother, and I don't feel anything.
Please. It makes sense.



That's an understatement.

You will need time to think all of this through and search your soul. But I hope that someday we can be a family again.
....
For now, please make yourself comfortable. Explore the castle, or stroll the grounds outside. You'll be safe here.

*Time passes*



Or about Camilla, Leo, and Elise....

*Singing suddenly heard*

Hm? What a beautiful song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXjvnOXusgk



BLUE STEEL



Er, hello. I'm sorry to bother you. I just got lost in your singing. There's something about that song that captivated me....
You must be Prince Corrin.
Yes. And you are?
I am Azura. A former princess of Nohr.

!!!



I grew up with the Nohrian royal family....
I'm afraid I've been here a long time. After you were taken by the Nohrians, the Hoshidan forces retaliated. They tried desperately to get you back, but they failed again and again.



I suppose we've both been hostages for most our lives...
Gods...I'm so sorry.
No, it's OK. I may technically be a hostage, but I've lived a happy life. The people of Hoshido have accepted me as one of their own. Even Queen Mikoto herself treats me as if I were her daughter.
Does she? Hmm...

"All my dad does is keep murdering me again and again and again"



No. I just...I just don't know what to do. She seems perfectly lovely, but I don't feel any connection to her. But she loves me. And so do all my blood siblings-who I've just met.
I understand. If I were to return to Nohr, I suspect I'd feel the same way.
Do you think you could start over there? Live a new life among strangers?
No. Given a choice, I would prefer to stay here in Hoshido. Queen Mikoto is a peace-loving ruler. King Garon is not.
...



I don't know. For now, I'm just going to spend some time thinking.


[All translations by https://kantopia.wordpress.com/]

Tae fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Feb 18, 2017

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!
Where are Kaze and Rinkah's growths?

Oh, and something about Kaze's personal: The chance is based on KAZE'S Luck, not whoever he's paired with. It basically gives the person he's paired with Miracle, which sounds a lot better than you think, considering Miracle is learned in a healing class.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Nobodies joined corrin permanently yet besides felecia.

Emperordaein
Jul 1, 2013
So for me, this was the start of where the morality balance between the kingdoms started to plummet downwards. My first thought upon seeing the Faceless were "Oh, I guess we'll kick off issues Hoshido has by revealing that they have internal issues with monsters. Okay, i'm on board with that."

And then.


Tae posted:




Creatures with no will of their own. Created by Nohrian mages.


Oh. Well that just makes Nohr look like even more of a gigantic pile of poo poo, doesn't it?

Another thing to note:

Tae posted:


Our mother, Queen Mikoto, put up a magical barrier around our kingdom.



So long as Mother is able to keep the barrier up, Nohr can't invade Hoshido.


So if you put any kind of thought into this, the barrier kind of has horrifying implications about potential control of the populace, the nobility's obsession with order and maintaining a regime, and all that jazz. In the hands of a good writer, this could lead to a fantastic dichotomy between the two nations. Think Ultima VII: Part 2, and how it explored the evil that can come with devoting one's self to pure order and pure chaos. This would be a great angle to take for the story, right?

Ahahahahahahahahaha... :suicide:

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!

Emperordaein posted:

So if you put any kind of thought into this, the barrier kind of has horrifying implications about potential control of the populace, the nobility's obsession with order and maintaining a regime, and all that jazz. In the hands of a good writer, this could lead to a fantastic dichotomy between the two nations. Think Ultima VII: Part 2, and how it explored the evil that can come with devoting one's self to pure order and pure chaos. This would be a great angle to take for the story, right?

This would be demanding far too much out of any Fire Emblem game, much less Fates.

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

Emperordaein posted:

So if you put any kind of thought into this, the barrier kind of has horrifying implications about potential control of the populace, the nobility's obsession with order and maintaining a regime, and all that jazz. In the hands of a good writer, this could lead to a fantastic dichotomy between the two nations. Think Ultima VII: Part 2, and how it explored the evil that can come with devoting one's self to pure order and pure chaos. This would be a great angle to take for the story, right?

I agree, it would have been a really good angle to play. I mean, SMT plots aren't super unique but it would've been a better use of the potential that this game's plot had!

ohmygorgon
Jul 13, 2016

inthesto posted:

This would be demanding far too much out of any Fire Emblem game, much less Fates.

It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to have Fates be Order vs Chaos, considering Radiant Dawn already brought up the idea of order and chaos as energies in the world, just say that one kingdom is chock-full of one type and the other kingdom has the other.

Speaking of Radiant Dawn, for everyone who dislikes the story in Fates, it really isn't much worse than what has always been for Fire Emblem. I would say Radiant Dawn has a worse story than Fates.

But really, I never go to Fire Emblem for a gripping, or even coherent story, I go for good gameplay, and at the very least, Conquest has really good gameplay.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Emperordaein posted:

So if you put any kind of thought into this, the barrier kind of has horrifying implications about potential control of the populace, the nobility's obsession with order and maintaining a regime, and all that jazz. In the hands of a good writer, this could lead to a fantastic dichotomy between the two nations. Think Ultima VII: Part 2, and how it explored the evil that can come with devoting one's self to pure order and pure chaos. This would be a great angle to take for the story, right?

Ahahahahahahahahaha... :suicide:
In all honesty, I would not be surprised that at one point, that was the intended plan with the kingdoms: Nohr is the one where the corruption is in plain view and has an obvious source, while Hoshido has the corruption be more behind the scenes and coming from unlikely sources. Thus, it'd make the actions of the player carry more weight because there is now an ultimate goal of reform on both sides of the fence--er, mountain range.

But alas, that's not what we got. And to think Conquest is the path with allegedly the most cut content from the original outline. I can only imagine what was cut from Birthright's original outline.

Emperordaein
Jul 1, 2013

inthesto posted:

This would be demanding far too much out of any Fire Emblem game, much less Fates.

It is wishful thinking on my part given the track record of the series, but I feel that past games have dipped their toes enough into more complex themes that trying to tackle Order vs Chaos in Fates, while likely not being anything on Obsidian or CD Project Red level, would be a solid story that would make use of the dual kingdoms. Radiant Dawn showed they had the ability to write in concepts like Order's with the villains surrounding Lehran and Ashera. I have more to say on how Fates could have handled it, but I want to wait further down the line to go into detail.

ohmygorgon posted:

Speaking of Radiant Dawn, for everyone who dislikes the story in Fates, it really isn't much worse than what has always been for Fire Emblem. I would say Radiant Dawn has a worse story than Fates.

Radiant Dawn I feel had a stronger story than Fates, but it wasn't very good. It was an overbloated, unfocused mess full of contrivances, but it had good chunks of story, enough to elevate it above Fates. Part 2 was a unique story for the series, and one I think was pulled off fairly well for the most part. I do like the story elements revolving around Ashrea and Yune. And the Dawn Brigade as a concept. It's just the Dawn Brigade in execution, and the stuff revolving around the Senators (A depressingly large chunk of the game)... Yeah...

Although not debating the gameplay. I despite the story for this game, but playing through Hard Classic Birthright after I got back into the game has been a ton of fun.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

:stare:
They have an AoE mind control barrier, and of a decent size too.
They have a loving mind control barrier able to cover a nation.

Did the writers realize that is the kind of horrifying poo poo that can make emperor Evil mcBeard seem like a sane alternative?

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Omobono posted:

:stare:
They have an AoE mind control barrier, and of a decent size too.
They have a loving mind control barrier able to cover a nation.

Did the writers realize that is the kind of horrifying poo poo that can make emperor Evil mcBeard seem like a sane alternative?

Barrier, not net. Barrier. It's like a bead curtain those hippies used to have back in the 70's or whenever. The people inside aren't affected by anything beyond the lack of war.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

ohmygorgon posted:

It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to have Fates be Order vs Chaos, considering Radiant Dawn already brought up the idea of order and chaos as energies in the world, just say that one kingdom is chock-full of one type and the other kingdom has the other.

Speaking of Radiant Dawn, for everyone who dislikes the story in Fates, it really isn't much worse than what has always been for Fire Emblem. I would say Radiant Dawn has a worse story than Fates.

But really, I never go to Fire Emblem for a gripping, or even coherent story, I go for good gameplay, and at the very least, Conquest has really good gameplay.

I dunno, I never expected a good story out of these games (or like 99% of games), but you can have a simple, well told story with likable characters, which a bunch of games do manage and is more important for a video game to nail IMO. Fates...yeah, poo poo starts speaking for itself after a point.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I really enjoyed the Awakening LP. This... it starts with anime French maids as a class in combat and goes downhill from there.

Why are turn-based squad tactics games like Fire Emblem and X-COM so rare?

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!

Cythereal posted:

I really enjoyed the Awakening LP. This... it starts with anime French maids as a class in combat and goes downhill from there.

Why are turn-based squad tactics games like Fire Emblem and X-COM so rare?

It's a niche genre but I definitely wouldn't call it rare. Shining Force existed back in the day and there's also the Ogre/FFT franchise too. There was quite an influx of them both on GBA and DS though they tended to be mediocre at best. Yggdra Union and Luminous Arc pop intoin immediately.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

inthesto posted:

It's a niche genre but I definitely wouldn't call it rare. Shining Force existed back in the day and there's also the Ogre/FFT franchise too. There was quite an influx of them both on GBA and DS though they tended to be mediocre at best. Yggdra Union and Luminous Arc pop intoin immediately.

Yeah, but I was meaning less anime and more for PCs.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Cythereal posted:

Yeah, but I was meaning less anime and more for PCs.



Shadowrun, banner saga.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
Card Hunter is a really cool F2P one that pretends to be a session of D&D, and Atlas Reactor is the genre crossed with a MOBA.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Cythereal posted:

I really enjoyed the Awakening LP. This... it starts with anime French maids as a class in combat and goes downhill from there.

Why are turn-based squad tactics games like Fire Emblem and X-COM so rare?
maids and butlers are cool classes and anime is the greatest thing humanity has ever achieved as a collective society

ChaosArgate
Oct 10, 2012

Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

If it makes you feel any better, you can have Butlers on the field too. It's a little weird, but honestly after little girls that can transform into big fuckoff dragons and the DLC Brides from Awakening, I don't know if I can really say Maids and Butlers are out of place choices for classes.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

Endorph posted:

maids and butlers are cool classes and anime is the greatest thing humanity has ever achieved as a collective society

what about manga?

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Tae posted:


*Singing suddenly heard*


This probably also would have made for a perfectly fine thread title.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Cythereal posted:

I really enjoyed the Awakening LP. This... it starts with anime French maids as a class in combat and goes downhill from there.

Why are turn-based squad tactics games like Fire Emblem and X-COM so rare?

Well, you can't make the game too similar because you risk everyone accusing you of ripping off another one. But the turn-based SRPG games aren't really that rare. They're usually more like FFTactics though. The problem is finding good ones. Because if people can do whatever you can end up with Stella Glow and I can't think of any other ones from the 2010's.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

RareAcumen posted:

The problem is finding good ones. Because if people can do whatever you can end up with Stella Glow and I can't think of any other ones from the 2010's.

Devil Survivor series, Metal Gear Acid, Wasteland 3, Invisible INC, etc.

I play lots of sprg, there's always 1-2 every few months and even more if you broaden to squad based turn based combat like Divinity: Original Sin.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

RareAcumen posted:

. Because if people can do whatever you can end up with Stella Glow and I can't think of any other ones from the 2010's.
I liked Stella Glow more than 2/3rds of Fates.

ohmygorgon
Jul 13, 2016

Last Celebration posted:

I dunno, I never expected a good story out of these games (or like 99% of games), but you can have a simple, well told story with likable characters, which a bunch of games do manage and is more important for a video game to nail IMO. Fates...yeah, poo poo starts speaking for itself after a point.

Fair enough, and don't get me wrong, even by the low standards set by Fire Emblem and video games in general, I think Fates has a poor story. I just think it's strange that all across the internet, people just hate this game's story so much, when the series already had the bar set pretty low. Even Awakening had an incredibly generic Fire Emblem story, the only element to make it particularly unique it from every other Fire Emblem is the time travel shenanigans, which was really more for having adult children to fight with you than it was a compelling plot point. At the very least, it is interesting to see Fates try to shake things up, even though it's a minor shake up at best.

Just like what has already been said in the thread, I certainly take issue with the fact that Hoshido is overly sympathetic, and Nohr is not nearly sympathetic enough, to the point where the game seems to call Corrin an idiot for siding with Nohr at every possible turn. I guess I'm mainly just surprised by how the number one reaction I ever see for Fates is how much people dislike the game due to the story.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!

Tae posted:

Devil Survivor series, Metal Gear Acid, Wasteland 3, Invisible INC, etc.

I play lots of sprg, there's always 1-2 every few months and even more if you broaden to squad based turn based combat like Divinity: Original Sin.

That reminds me that I recently played one on Steam called Hellenica, which looked okay since it was deliberately copying FFT's aesthetic l, but turned out to be not fun to play due to being overly simple.

Anyways, I've done a lot of ragging on this game so far, but I will day that Conquest has by far my favorite map design in the entire series. Fates in general also achieves a nice balance among stats where speed is no longer the undisputed champion, plus futzing around with skills and reclassified is fun. Story is a shame, but it's easy enough to ignore and skip on repeat playthroughs.

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RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Tae posted:

Devil Survivor series, Metal Gear Acid, Wasteland 3, Invisible INC, etc.

I play lots of sprg, there's always 1-2 every few months and even more if you broaden to squad based turn based combat like Divinity: Original Sin.

Oh I'm sure there are plenty, I just haven't got a good memory and can't recall any of them off the top of my head for whatever reason. I dunno if any of them follow the squad system like Xcom though. Most of what I can think of is pretty much Tactic-ish or like Fire Emblem.

RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Feb 17, 2017

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