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 Hello team Right!  If you are a member of Team Left, you are in the wrong place and should leave at once! Your mission is simple: Be the first team to score 4 points by choosing the move that defeats the other team's move. I'm sure you know the drill. Use any way you prefer to reach a consensus about which move your team will pick. Turn lengths are going to be played a bit by ear depending on how quickly both teams are able to decide, but I'll probably keep them at at least 24 hours to allow as many people as possible to give input regardless of time zones etc. There are only a few rules:
That should be all! Just ask if there are any questions, or if you think I have missed something. And now, I shall leave you with the question: Rock, paper, or scissors? Covski fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 13:03
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 20:34 |
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If it is alright, or you want to vet it, the invite is As for the game, with neither a physical player to size up or a game history to analyse, there's nothing in particular to influence our first throw. Therefore, I propose we follow the time-honoured tradition of opening with Rock. E: VVV Happily, that's the main reason I asked. AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 13:32
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AlphaKretin posted:I do have a question: I've prepared a Discord server for real-time strategic discussion and an AI practice opponent. Are either/both of these things within the rules, or not? It is a good gimmick, since I really cannot be sure about how serious you are about it. I guess it says more about this subforum than anything else. However, even though I appreciate the enthusiasm, I'd prefer if all communication was kept in-thread for the convenience of observers and post-game analysis 
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Feb 13, 2017 14:57
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So, as was mentioned during sign-ups, the most likely opening move from one side is Rock, with the other side picking Paper in counter to that. We should assume that our opponents are going to assume one step further, and pick Scissors as a counter to our counter-pick of Paper, so we should pick Rock in the end. If this line of reasoning plays out as above, this dominant strike so early will demoralize our opponents and ensure we hold the mental advantage for the rest of the event. Of course, we do run the risk of them assuming yet another step ahead, picking Paper, and then leaving us demoralized, but we can only ride the counter-pick carousel for so long and I believe they would stop on Scissors... if they even use a similar reasoning in the first place, instead of just choosing at random! But, that's a question for when the throw happens.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:16
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Oblivion4568238 posted:if they even use a similar reasoning in the first place, instead of just choosing at random! This is the key point. There are basically two paths we can take, game theory optimal (GTO) play or exploitative play. What you're describing is exploitative, but with literally no play history to go on, it's really shaky justification for any move. GTO play at this stage would be a purely random throw, I believe. Sadly the rules forbid a true random throw, so I'm going to say Paper. We can't assume our opponent is going to be exploitative right out of the gate, and we definitely can't assume they're going to be counter-exploitative right out of the gate. Paper beats the most statistically likely throw and draws against the exploitative throw, and so seems to me the safest option.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:49
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I am in favor of Rock: a) Such a move would be unexpected due to the general expectation of rock being the first move and thus an expectation on their part that rock will not be played. b) If they are basing their move on the fact that rock is the most likely first play, paper will be considered but likely thrown out as too obvious, leaving scissors to be crushed by our powerful, unexpected rock.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:09
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I'm a big fan of Rock, so I'll try not to suggest it every round. But still, it's a good first move, we need to start on the offensive and take them off guard. The chance of them choosing Paper is tiny, not even worth thinking about.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:00
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Paper cause paper cuts hurt. 
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Feb 13, 2017 19:45
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Let's do it, team! Let's choose scissors!
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Feb 13, 2017 19:56
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Honestly, there really isn't much to go on at this point. So I'm all for rock just so we have a first move.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:01
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I think Paper is the safest move for the first throw. We are both going to be looking at the same sources for RPS openings and I don't think Scissors are going to come out this early. They will probably throw paper as well. E- even if they take Scissors we may take a loss but we are establishing we are more traditionally predictable which we can use to our advantage later. I think the safest opening is the smartest one here GNU Order fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 22:51
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Rock is always right.
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Feb 14, 2017 03:11
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The result:  PAPER COVERS ROCK! TEAM LEFT WINS! Current score: 1-0 in favour of Team Left, three points left to win. Previous moves: L: P- R: R- Round two begins now! Rock, paper or scissors?
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Feb 14, 2017 15:20
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Curses! If I'm remembering the write-up about player psychology correctly, we're expected to change while our opponent is expected to stay the same - but they know we know this. If we were playing reactively, we'd change to scissors, which would leave us vulnerable to rock - so let's pre-empt that move on their part and defeat it with Paper! And if it turns out we're overthinking it and they stay the same, it leaves us with a tie - preferable to another loss.
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Feb 14, 2017 15:44
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Welp, whaddidaye tell you? Shoulda picked scissors. We can make up for it. We can pick scissors this time!
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Feb 14, 2017 16:10
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The boldest move would be to play Rock again, so let's do that.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:55
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I think they will consider throwing paper again to be the riskiest play, so I think we are safe throwing Rock. We all know about winner stays, loser moves so even if we stabilize with a draw I think we'll come out ahead. I predict they will throw rock as well but if they try and overthink themselves they could throw scissors and we could steal a win.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:09
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AlphaKretin posted:Curses! If I'm remembering the write-up about player psychology correctly, we're expected to change while our opponent is expected to stay the same - but they know we know this. The danger in trying to use player psychology to decide what they'll pick is that it's more than likely that they're doing the same thing and then it just turns into 4th dimensional chess where we're trying to determine how deep down the logic hole our opponents are so we can go one layer deeper. I prefer to use it to think about which throw they won't do, and playing around that. And personally I think paper again is their riskiest play.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:17
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GNU Order posted:I think they will consider throwing paper again to be the riskiest play, so I think we are safe throwing Rock. We all know about winner stays, loser moves so even if we stabilize with a draw I think we'll come out ahead. I predict they will throw rock as well but if they try and overthink themselves they could throw scissors and we could steal a win. I agree with this strategy. Rock
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Feb 14, 2017 17:26
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GNU Order posted:I think they will consider throwing paper again to be the riskiest play, so I think we are safe throwing Rock. We all know about winner stays, loser moves so even if we stabilize with a draw I think we'll come out ahead. I predict they will throw rock as well but if they try and overthink themselves they could throw scissors and we could steal a win. Something to consider is that they're 1 point ahead of us, so they might be willing to use a risky play since they have room for error. That said, I do agree with this strategy as. Rock.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:33
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I could be entirely wrong but I wouldn't expect somebody to try and take a risk with an early lead, considering we threw the obvious opening. If we tie this round I could totally see them trying to get cute tho
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Feb 14, 2017 17:38
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A sample size of one is too small to say that they are playing exploitatively, but they did make the exploitative throw (and not, I should point out, the counter-exploitative throw). Since we lost, we would now be expected to switch to the sign that wasn't beaten (in this instance, scissors, since it wouldn't be beaten by paper). If they are playing exploitatively, they will throw rock to beat our scissors. Now you may be expecting me to advocate paper, then, to beat their rock. But no, I'm voting Rock. First of all, because we aren't sure about their exploitative play yet. Second, because the psychology of the game also says that a player is unlikely to throw the same sign three times, it sets us up for throwing a round 3 rock against an expected scissors (since they would assume it's safe to throw the sign that loses to rock, our least likely pick).
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Feb 14, 2017 17:53
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Round 2 is finished! The result:  ROCK BASHES INEFFECTUALLY AGAINST ROCK! IT IS A TIE! Current score: 1-0 in favour of Team Left, three points left to win. Previous moves: L: PR- R: RR- Round three begins now! Rock, paper or scissors?
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Feb 15, 2017 15:34
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ROCK AGAIN 
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Feb 15, 2017 15:40
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I knew we should have gone paper!  As much as it would appeal to my sense of symmetry to fulfil Blind Sally's wishes and go with scissors, it seems like too obvious of a move here. They would never expect us to throw Rock a third time in a row after two consecutive failures, but it's just crazy enough to work!
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Feb 15, 2017 15:41
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I have to dissent with that. The only move we have played so far is Rock, at this point our opponents have to be considering the possibility that we are crazies who will play Rock forever, no matter the circumstances. They would also consider that we would probably switch to scissors, for reasons outlined before and after the last round. Therefore, I believe they will throw Rock themselves, aiming to either tie us again on our Rock if we're crazies, or beat us on Scissors if we seek to change up our strategy. Thus, our move should be Paper.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:14
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CirclMastr posted:Now you may be expecting me to advocate paper, then, to beat their rock. But no, I'm voting Rock. First of all, because we aren't sure about their exploitative play yet. Second, because the psychology of the game also says that a player is unlikely to throw the same sign three times, it sets us up for throwing a round 3 rock against an expected scissors (since they would assume it's safe to throw the sign that loses to rock, our least likely pick). Time to put this plan into action. Rock EDIT: Also we can pretty reliably put them on exploitative play now. Meaning they would expect us to switch to paper (which wouldn't lose against rock) and thus themselves switch to scissors. Rock beats scissors.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:45
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I agree with paper strat.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:07
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There is no way they throw Scissors, considering they've thrown Paper and now Rock. I think Paper is the safest move, and I predict they will stay Rock
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Feb 15, 2017 19:13
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Same, let's go with Paper.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:18
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Feb 15, 2017 19:22
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The other team is beginning to suspect that we are weirdoes who only play rock. Now is the opportune time to play scissors, as the odds are good they'll pull out paper for they suspect to be an easy win.
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Feb 16, 2017 02:25
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Round 3 is finished! The result:  PAPER SMOTHERS PAPER! IT IS A TIE! Current score: 1-0 in favour of Team Left, three points left to win. Previous moves: L: PRP- R: RRP- Round four begins now! Rock, paper or scissors?
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Feb 16, 2017 16:24
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Okay, from that round, they clearly expected us to stick with rock yet again. However, now we established that we won't pick rock all the time which makes things uncertain for them. I say that we take advantage of that and double back to rock since they won't be expecting that move.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:53
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Rock
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Feb 16, 2017 19:07
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It is time to unleash scissors
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Feb 16, 2017 19:11
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We have not posted a single win in three straight rounds. Purge the team and start over 
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Feb 16, 2017 22:11
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nine-gear crow posted:We have not posted a single win in three straight rounds. Purge the team and start over But we only lost once. If anything, the ties are getting us valuable intel.
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Feb 16, 2017 22:13
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CirclMastr posted:Rock No effort posts from me this round. I agree with the already-given reasoning.
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Feb 17, 2017 00:20
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AlphaKretin posted:No effort posts from me this round. I agree with the already-given reasoning. Same, with the addition that strategy hasn't won us anything yet, so utter chaos/reverse strategy are our best bets now. Anyways, Rock.
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Feb 17, 2017 02:20
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