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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Games shouldn't take longer than about 10 hours to complete a story mode. Pretty much universally everything above that is about padding the experience because the game designer is focused on metrics rather than quality.

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

jokes posted:

Video games that have backtracking are bad video games. You should only revisit an area if everything in them has changed or if you forgot a thing and go back to get it. But video games like to send you back to where you came from and it’s clearly a way to pad playtime. Most environments are repeated anyway so what the H.

Nothing is more of a turnoff than when you come across a door you can’t open yet.

This is why metroidvanias are bad.

Just have a linear progression of levels and introduce new gameplay concepts, obstacles, enemies and abilities as you progress, FFS, don't make me spend hours trying to remember the one tile on one screen which will let me use my new doodad that I picked up all the way across the map.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
All of the best FPS games have been 2.5D, even the original Duke 3D is better than any modern offering, and I'm including all of the half life games and expansions in this. The best FPS games have you blasting around, running at 20 kmph, and unloading an arsenal of a dozen actually functionally diverse weapons into the faces of increasingly outlandish enemies. Every step towards "realism" in an FPS just makes it less good.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Rockstar are the masters of all sizzle and no loving steak. All of their games lean on spectacle rather than playability as the arbiter of their quality and there has never been a 3D GTA game where the fun even comes close to outweighing the tedium and the frustration inherent to their design choices.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Caesar Saladin posted:

They're admittedly bad, but there aren't really any games that have the freeform driving chaos that GTA provides.

The Saint's Row series would like a word with you.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
I want to enjoy Max Payne 3 however every time I try to play it on a modern computer with windows 10 the cutscene during the flashback in the bar causes the game to crash every single time.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Ugly In The Morning posted:

MP2 was like a six hour game, less on replays. I think the first was actually a bit longer. 2 basically runs you from setpiece to setpiece with occasional fun breather levels like the part where you can dick around in the police station.

Max Payne 2 also had one of the more interesting examples of ludonarrative dissonance in gaming, in that whether or not Mona Sax died at the end was a function not of your actions in game, but purely of the difficulty setting.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

https://twitter.com/luulubuu/status/1170481876458512384

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Martman posted:

I gave up on the forest of illusion boss, it resists all my map attacks and is complete bullshit

There used to be a poster who was the resident expert in attempting MAP attacks, but he got demodded and perma'd.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Caesar Saladin posted:

Difficulty is good when its mixed with very consistent and polished gameplay. Dark souls and Bloodborne are hard but they are also very consistent and predictable, if you learn the game's systems and what's expected of you and how situations will react to you, you can manage them in a very precise way and make things a lot easier for you.


This. Admittedly the only soulslike I've played is the two Surge games, but while they're tough, they are FAIR. 99% of the time when I die it's because I've hosed up, either in execution or by deciding to do something stupid/overreaching in terms of risk vs. reward.

I know the 'git good' catchphrase carries a lot of unpleasant nerd gatekeeper bullshit along with it, but there is a kernel of truth there. Once it clicks for you, all of a sudden you start performing at an incredibly higher level. The Surge 2 has those statues mid-game that basically force you to learn how to parry well, and the minute it clicked not only did these insurmountable enemies suddenly become almost trivialised, but options for dealing with every enemy I'd faced up to this point suddenly opened up.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Titanfall 2 is a better game than anything Rockstar has ever done.

Finishing the campaign took me 5 hours in total, but it was such a tightly designed, action packed 5 hours that it absolutely was worth the sale price despite the fact that I have precisely zero interest in multiplayer. Each level introduces a new mechanic or has a gimmick unique to that level, so there's always something new to hook you, and the game never feels like it overstays its welcome.

The plot and dialogue is run of the mill mediocrity at best, but that's not what you're there for. It has no pretentions about being anything other than a videogame, and doesn't have its head up its arse about trying to ape Hollywood cinema.

There's no useless filler, there's no grind, there's just a carefully curated videogame experience that consists of a select few game mechanics that are intuitive, fun, and polished to a mirror shine.

Every grand theft auto, on the other hand, is a sprawling mess with too much raw content and not enough craft put into making that content enjoyable. Show me someone who says the gunplay in GTA is good, and I'll show you either an idiot or a liar.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Caesar Saladin posted:

five hours is too short for a video game, titanfall 2 is too short.

5 hours for ~$10 is about right, and due to the fact that it's consistently fun and doesn't sap your will to live by taking 100 hours to complete, you could conceivably go back and immediately play it on a higher difficulty or replay levels that you particularly enjoyed rather than being utterly burnt out on it. It's definitely one for the "replay once every six months to a year or so" pile.

Serephina posted:

How many new accounts do I have to sign up for, and launchers to install, to get Titanfall2 working? The 13 bucks is much less of a price than signing up for new poo poo I don't want, not to mention the hassle of dealing with another buggy launcher in linux.

Regardless of where you buy it you need to install Origin.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

PinheadSlim posted:

Yeah it's literally a pseudo real-time DnD game. I didn't play Kotor until I was already a huge nerd and when making a character I was like "Ability modifiers? Feats? Damage is dice based? Holy poo poo this is just DnD." which really explains the clunk.

The strongest hint regarding its P&P origins is in the damage values of most weapons: they pretty much universally can be expressed in terms of nerd dice. You have a bunch of weapons that have damage ranges of like 2-8 (2d4) 2-12 (2d6) 1-10 (1d10), 3-12 (3d4) etc that show it's all virtual dice rolls under the hood.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Schadenboner posted:

I think it was this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhA3a9LTAs

:shrug:

E: No, sadly there never was a Duckman video game. :(

There was, but it wasn't voiced by Jason Alexander so gently caress it.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Super Mario World is a better game than Super Mario Bros 3 is almost* every way.




*The fact that they didn't include a Giant World that took advantage of the SNES' sprite scaling is the game's only flaw.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Bioshock 2 is the best of the post 2000s shock games, and was in the sweet spot of refining the gameplay mechanics of the first one, and the overdeveloped mess of Infinite.

The storyline was better too.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Command and conquer/RA 1-3 (excluding Tiberian Sun which was unplayable garbage) is the best RTS game series ever, because the single player campaign is all that matters and RTS multiplayer is overanalysed solved-problem trash with minimal viable strategies (much like chess).

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Chomp8645 posted:

Every new game: open settings

- Subtitles on
- Motion blur off
- Depth of field off
- Film grain off
- Windowed fullscreen

smh if you do anything different.

Gonna out myself as a noob here:

What's the difference between full screen and windowed full screen?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
The original watch dogs so far (midway through act 2) plays better as a gta-like than any of the GTA games I've played, and I don't know what all of the negative press the game appears to have gotten is all about.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
All of these posts are pointless because the One True Best Goon Videogame Opinion was that Portal was set in an upside-down skycastle due to the way that you fell upwards after killing glados, all other contrarian posting quakes before its power.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

food court bailiff posted:

mega man 3 is better than mega man 2 by almost any conceivable metric and ill never understand why 2 is held in such especially high regard

It's the first good game in the series.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Manager Hoyden posted:

It wasn't so much that there was no choice in the game, it was that there was no choice AND the game called you a monster for doing to only choice the game gave you. Like you literally can't play the game as a good guy, so what, did the designers want you to buy the game but not play it? Was that the moral of the ham-handed shitplay story?

But the thing i disliked the most about spec ops was every navel-gazing cutscene was bookended by bog-standard videogame segments. Like contrived cover stages that all look like paintball courses with the standard waves of enemies, followed and preceded by the most freshman film studies maudlin nonsense.

Why does this narrative about the effect of American military imperialism on the foreign countries it is inflicted upon inevitably end in senseless tragedy?

And why does it include strikingly similar experiences to other games that portray similar scenarios but in an unexamined way and which by stark contrast allow me to experience a power fantasy?

Sadly, we may never know.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Wait until you hear about the super secret ending where you don't play video games at all, loser.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
The Meat Circus in psychonauts was a perfectly fine level and an appropriate scaling up of difficulty for the game's climax.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Serephina posted:

Basically agreed, but I will point out that despite Infinite deserving criticism for... basically everything, it *did* get one thing very much right: Elizabeth as a escort/sidekick. The game presents her as an escort, but she's actually invulnerable, even untargetable, and so she takes care of herself by ducking behind cover etc quite cinematically while you go about shooting people. And then she hands out medkits and ammo for your favorite gun (since that's what you've got equipped and are low on ammo for) dynamically in a way that seems to have sanity checks to prevent scumming. It's actually very, very well done and especially noteworthy compared to how many other gameplay gaffes the game suffered from.

Like having a gargantuan weapon selection, with 2 pointless variants of each, but only 2 can be carried. And I think you have to sink upgrades into those guns? ugh. Or that dress-up equipment screen, with tophats and whatnot that give small bonus's. Except that they drop randomly each game, presumably to give replay value and 'build' variation, except for my playthrough the first four+ items where for the same loving slot so I couldn't use them for poo poo. Gods, how braindead.

But yea, Liz as an escort was brilliantly done.

...except for the bit where in all of the prerelease trailer hype for BI they were talking about how her using her powers too much would hurt her and play into the story, so I never used any of her reality-warping/support functions throughout the entire game because I thought it would have some sort of effect on the outcome, thereby gimping myself.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Serephina posted:

What support functions? (did I miss something?) She just literally yells "Booker! Ammo!" and a clip comes flying your way, no prompting needed.

In some setpiece battles she could warp reality to put a skyhook where there was none before or add cover.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Fun fact: Red Alert's entire time travel shenanigans where the antagonists are Russia rather than Nazi Germany was due to Westwood wanting to make a WWII Command and Conquer and having the good sense (back in the mid-'90's no less) to not want to have to deal with that repulsive poo poo in their games because what the gently caress.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Theorypostin' about the mechanical bonuses and maluses of reducing an entire ethnic group into ashes in my nightmare factory. The human skin lampshade really boosts my Oberkommando's ability to notice rare resources on the map (+2 to detection) but is it worth the resultant increased unrest in Poland? Eh, if I can get one more steel mill out of it that plus the income from all of these gold fillings will let me construct additional propaganda centers, so it's a net gain.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Let us know when you find an example.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Duke 3D is a genuinely better FPS than anything with "half life" in the title.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Shibawanko posted:

i have a regular lanparty crew but because theres no way to have a lanparty nowadays we're doing a remote multiplayer version. so basically we're just going to play multiplayer games online (pc only) for a weekend. any suggestions for games? we already have some stuff on the menu: fall guys, among us, remnant (i dunno what this game is like but it was free a while ago and some people have it), halo 3 coop maybe, anything else thats good and recent?

Overcooked 2 is the perfect party game.

Streets of rage 4.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
As much as people like to justifiably grouse about how overfocussing on visual fidelity can at best be neutral and at worst can bring a video game down, there's definitely something to be said about excessive amounts of mechanical fidelity as well.

As a very simple example, look at unit and structure placement in the Command and Conquer series of games.

In the early iterations everything was very clearly and evidently (even to the player) grid-based. Non-infantry units took up exactly one grid space, buildings took up multiple grid spaces, and building placement was restricted to an integer number of grid spaces between buildings. Buildings also had a set orientation on the map and could not be rotated.

C&C 3, however, decided to buck that trend. Buildings were placeable any distance from one another, and could be rotated a full 360 degrees from their original orientation. Rather than being arranged to a grid, units could be instructed to go to a point and could navigate to any arbitrary distance from any other point on the map.

The result? Bases were very hard to set up in any kind of ordered fashion as it was not immediately clear where the footprint of a building went, and rotating a building a fraction of a degree would greatly increase the distance around it that any building without the exact same orientation could be placed. This led to cluttered, chaotic, messy bases. Ordering units around was difficult as well, because if you ordered a unit to move near another unit, rather than being able to align them gridlike as in previous games, you would direct them to a point near the other unit, and then you'd find that there's an invisible bumper car fun zone surrounding each and every vehicle that defines the distance that another vehicle is allowed to be from it, that again wildly differs according to orientation. This zone was also massive in relation to the size of the vehicle - up to about 3 vehicle lengths. The result of this is that if you told a tank to go to where a group of other tanks were, it would start to navigate, and then every tank in your main blob would frantically move around as the destination for the move order was suddenly a massive no-go zone, meaning that a chain reaction of repositioning of every vehicle around it would occur. This could lead to situations where vehicles parked carefully outside of the range of other enemies would jostle into range and get killed. I'm sure that the people who devised this system were very proud that their game didn't have such restricted placement rules anymore and was more realistic, but it stunk out loud.

Then Red Alert 3 came along, and they went right back to the grid-based system (with the added ability to rotate buildings, but only in 90 degree increments). Was it gamier? Yes. Was it more engaging? Also yes, because despite the fact that it was not 'realistic', the player spent more of their time actually focusing on tactical combat against their opponent rather than wrestling against the game's systems. Arguably, it was more immersive despite being more obviously restricted by game rules.

Basically, the upside of video game is just that: they are computerized games. They allow us to harness computing power to create games which follow rulesets and simulate causal relationships between player actions and outcomes that are many orders of magnitude more complicated than what can be done by hand, but the focus needs to be on the player experience of those mechanics, and losing sight of that makes for a bad time. You shouldn't be attempting to simulate reality, but instead create an abstraction of a scenario for gameplay purposes that engages the player rather than flexing your programming chops and sacrificing fun at the alter of fidelity.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Homeworld: deserts of kharak is a superior game to both of the original games, purely because of the shift to units moving on a plane rather than in 3D. The full XYZ movement of the prior games was technically impressive and conceptually interesting, but in execution it turned interacting with your units into a painful slog where you were constantly wrestling with the interface.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
With very few exceptions*:

Open up the options menu of the game you just bought and downloaded. Is there a Film Grain option under visual effects? Uninstall it and get a refund.

Shithead game producers with no confidence in the type of product they're creating an attempt to make a game a "Cinematic" experience, because they think that aping the conventions or even outdated visual artifacts of a passive form of entertainment will deliver a better experience than crafting a game that plays well. Film grain is a great litmus test because it's an attempt to distract you from the fact that what you're playing isn't engrossing or immersive as it should be.





*Because someone is going to ask: Alien Isolation is a good counterexample as it is both appropriate to the visual aesthetic of the source material - which in many other ways the game has a clear and brilliantly-executed focus on recreating without detriment to the way the game plays - and also film grain is appropriate to the genre of game in a way that Hbomberguy is far better at explaining than I could ever be.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Competent artistic direction will always trump technological progress in rendering technique beyond a certain point.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Rutibex posted:

graphical power shouldn't be used to make realistic ball hair on a horses nut sack, thats a waste of resources. the computing power should be put to use rendering more and more mooks onto the screen at the same time. i want to kill 1000 soldiers with a single combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahmHbf2xmXc

Yes but that sounds like you're developing a fun game instead of a cinematic experience, which brings us back to my original point. :v:

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Play posted:

Realism is fine for some games but yeah not always necessary or even preferable.

Team fortress 2 still looks great today because of a well defined art style that pulls double duty by making the silhouettes of each character class visually distinct in a way that enhances gameplay by clearly and instantly communicating the disposition of the enemy forces.

It's a masterclass in what to do in visual presentation of video games.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think one of Mario's biggest strengths is that surrealism has been pretty much baked into the series from the start.

I think one of Mario's biggest strengths is the tanooki suit.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Portal 2 was funnier though. And placing the final portal was amazing and had been built up so well in the previous narrative that I couldn't stop laughing.

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
The dialogue in life is strange is so bad that I uninstalled it after less than an hour.

Don't know why it's got a good reputation.

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