|
you feelin fucky posted:Is portuguese aerospace engineer a euphemism for maroccan shoplifter or something? Because even as a southern european he's not going to kick you out if he magically gets 100% of the votes. We import so many southern european engineers that getting rid of them would hurt our industry a lot. We literally can't replace you, especially in loving aerospace engineering, yet you keep worrying about it for some reason. The absolute worst that can happen is that companies will negotiate your wage down to merely average if wilders somehow blows up the eu and you need that job for a visa. That's what happens to iranians, but we still hire a boatload of them each year.
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
I'll vote socialist like any reasonable person. I have no real expectations from this election but if I can wish for one thing I'd wish that Baudet with his right winger pig's eyes don't get any seats and I never have to see him again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
you feelin fucky posted:The absolute worst that can happen is that companies will negotiate your wage down to merely average if wilders somehow blows up the eu and you need that job for a visa. I'm worried about that but not as much as some US style incident in which some random rear end in a top hat decides to kill me. I do acknowledge I am a bit paranoid, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
I never vote greenleft because I see them as basically D66 except with dreadlocks. They are not really interested in anything like socialism and they care about the environment in an abstract way but are not interested in the ramifications climate change has on ordinary people. It's just another liberal party which is ultimately fine with marketization and even militarization (kunduz). This may be an unfair assessment in some ways because I don't really care about them and didn't read whatever their programme is now, and i don't think it matters what their programme is if they join a centre-right coalition anymore than the PvdA programme mattered the last time, they will simply replace the PvdA as the sidekick party. The animal party is loving silly and Marianne Thieme is in a cult. So that leaves SP for me. Not perfect either, but acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
please don't give Wilders the most votes, you clog-loving madmen
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 07:34
|
|
|
The Puppet Master posted:I saw this article on DutchNews.nl which is just another example of VVD looking itself in mirror and saying "we got to get more racist" as a strategy for the upcoming election. This will seriously gently caress me and my wife over. Rutte is a piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 08:47
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:I never vote greenleft because I see them as basically D66 except with dreadlocks. They are not really interested in anything like socialism and they care about the environment in an abstract way but are not interested in the ramifications climate change has on ordinary people. It's just another liberal party which is ultimately fine with marketization and even militarization (kunduz). This may be an unfair assessment in some ways because I don't really care about them and didn't read whatever their programme is now, and i don't think it matters what their programme is if they join a centre-right coalition anymore than the PvdA programme mattered the last time, they will simply replace the PvdA as the sidekick party. I follow almost this exact reasoning except I don't think the animal party is silly. I find their platform very reasonable actually. I just can't trust a person who believes the earth was literally created in 7 days to be capable of making rational decisions when it matters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 09:28
|
|
|
Final polling averages: Worst news out of this poll to me would be the cryptofascist Thierry Baudet of the FvD making it into parliament. Also worrisome is that the collective Dutch left (including PvdD and Denk for a moment) gets only ~32% meaning a coalition can be formed that excludes both leftist parties and the PVV.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 09:38
|
|
|
I hope that both Baudet and Roos get 1 seat, so they can rage impotently for a few years, having to form an opinion and vote on all kinds of things they really don't want to be bothered with, and then leave politics disillusioned, raging about how unfair it all was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 09:47
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:I follow almost this exact reasoning except I don't think the animal party is silly. I find their platform very reasonable actually. I just can't trust a person who believes the earth was literally created in 7 days to be capable of making rational decisions when it matters. Yeah maybe I was a bit harsh, the one thing I do like about them is that J.M. Coetzee apparently ran as their listpusher. I have an awful feeling that vvd-cda-d66 will turn out to get 74 seats so Rutte adds in Baudet. I thought this was a great characterisation of Baudet and his ilk: http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/opinie-op-zondag-sarah-sluimer-de-duistere-droom-van-thierry-baudet~a4472766/ quote:En zij kijken naar hem met bewondering. 'Prima kerel', zullen ze na afloop met verregende schwung tegen elkaar zeggen. Ze zullen proberen te praten zoals hij, de klanken een beetje tot achter in hun keel duwen. Daarna zullen ze vertrekken naar hun studentenkamers waar een beduimelde Ayn Rand ('helemaal kapot gelezen') en wat verdrietige druipkaarsen (voor als er een meisje langs komt) elkaar complementeren. Ze draaien een stukje Matthäus, proberen het echt mooi te vinden, zetten het ontmoedigd af. Kruipen in bed. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 11:37
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:Will there be live streaming of the election results in english tomorrow? I will be updating this thread as election results come in, as I can. There is only one live stream on YouTube, which will be Ruptly (run by RT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYtyrwwwYw&t=7s From NL Times: "As of 1:45 p.m. about a third of the Netherlands cast their votes, according to Ipsos. That's much higher than the 27 percent turnout at the same time during the 2012 election. According to Ipsos researchers, this suggests a high turnout similar to the 2006 election, in which over 80 percent of Dutch voters showed up at the polling stations." http://nltimes.nl/2017/03/15/early-voter-turnout-high-netherlands-elections According to Peilingwijzer: VVD 24 - 28 PVV 19 - 23 CDA 19 - 21 D66 17 - 19 GroenLinks 16 - 18 SP 14 - 16 PvdA 10 - 12 ChristenUnie 5 - 7 PvdD 4 - 6 50Plus 3 - 5 SGP 2 - 4 DENK 1 - 3 FvD 1 - 3 VNL 0 - 1 Piraten Partij 0 - 1 I'll be adding the VNL and Pirate Party to the OP. Here are some more English-language stories: The Toronto Star discusses the possible consequences of the results: "If the standings in the polls are replicated in the actual elections, the process of forming a new government will likely take months and the resulting coalition will consist of at least four and probably five or more parties." https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/03/14/dutch-election-muddied-by-political-party-fragmentation.html High turnout as Dutch vote in Europe's first far-right test https://www.afp.com/en/news/23/high-turnout-dutch-vote-europes-first-far-right-test (AFP) Dutch Election Is Underway, In Latest Test Of Populist Nationalism http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/15/520246151/dutch-election-is-under-way-in-latest-test-of-populist-nationalism (NPR) It looks like the markets aren't worried about Wilders and Nexit: https://www.ft.com/content/9d7c103c-2dcb-353e-8d02-f832ffb2b95a (FT)
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 16:38
|
|
|
Look you guys, belgium worked very half-assedly to get the world record on government coalition negotiations, don't take that away from us.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
http://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-election-live-blog-netherlands-mark-rutte-geert-wilders/ Politico EU liveblog in English if for some mad reason you want be informed RIGHT NOW about a result that won't be near firm until tomorrow morning and knowing that coalition negotiations will drag on forever. God but I cannot wait for this to be over.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
Panama Red posted:I will be updating this thread as election results come in, as I can. It's going to be VVD-CDA-D66-PvdA(-CU) probably. The most boring result imaginable. I don't think the negotiations will even be that long, those parties are all identical anyway, they'll just have to make sure every worthless PvdA person gets a well paid post. I fully expect Rutte to form a coalition with Wilders if it's convenient to him though. That promise will go out the window if it has to. Most of his voters won't care. But it'll probably be easier for him to go centrist. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
4:06 PM EST It's 9PM in the Netherlands and exit polls should start trickling in. I'm just going to periodically update this post with election news as it trickles in. Dutch political scientist Cas Mudde, an expert on the new rise of nationalism across Europe, just tweeted this exit poll (# of seats): VVD 31 CDA 19 PVV 19 D66 19 GL 16 SP 14 PvdA 9 CU 6 PvdD 5 50+ 4 DENK 3 SGP 3 FvD 2 Wilders' party coming in second in a three-way tie would be a huge disappointment for the far right across the world. But it could be that Dutch voters are wary of electing their own Trump. We'll see how reliable this info is. 4:10 EST The exit poll is coming from NOS: http://nos.nl/artikel/2163343-exitpoll-vvd-veruit-de-grootste-partij.html Politico EU is saying that Rutte's party came first in the election: http://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-pm-rutte-comes-first-in-election-but-loses-seats-exit-poll/ quote:Rutte’s People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD) was projected to win 31 seats, 10 fewer than at the last election in 2012. Geert Wilders’ far-right Party for Freedom (PVV) was predicted to tie for second place with two other parties on 19 seats each, according to the Ipsos survey, published immediately after polling stations closed at 9 p.m. 4:20 EST People are already dunking on Wilders for his underwhelming performance. The bloc of right-leaning parties, PVV-VVD-CDA, stable at 69 seats. The left-leaning parties, PvdA-GL-SP, lose 18 seats. As expected, the biggest winner is the Labour Party (PvdA), losing 29 seats, while GroenLinks gained 12 seats to their original four. Panama Red fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
This is an absolutely poo poo outcome. I guess we have to thank Erdogan for the size of the VVD vote but for the Dutch Left it's really a collective horror show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
Do you have to involve the largest party to form a government? As in, there's no way around the VVD by, for example, combining, CDA/D66/GL/SP/PvdA?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
Pluskut Tukker posted:This is an absolutely poo poo outcome. I guess we have to thank Erdogan for the size of the VVD vote but for the Dutch Left it's really a collective horror show. I'm glad that my horror scenario of PVV becoming the largest didn't come true, but I agree that it's super milquetoast centrist, and we're going to get a 4+ party coalition which is always fun
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
Fleve posted:Do you have to involve the largest party to form a government? As in, there's no way around the VVD by, for example, combining, CDA/D66/GL/SP/PvdA? There is, but the largest party gets first dibs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
Fleve posted:Do you have to involve the largest party to form a government? As in, there's no way around the VVD by, for example, combining, CDA/D66/GL/SP/PvdA? No. The PVV was originally expected to be the largest party and almost every other party (including the major ones) said they would not include them in a coalition. A coalition just needs a majority of seats to pass through legislation. Your example works on paper, but is unlikely given that the CDA are social conservative centrists, the Labour Party neoliberal moderates, SP more radical socialists, etc. A more likely scenario now would be VVD+CDA+D66+PvdA, united in their mostly liberal economic platforms. I expect GL and SP may emerge as a left opposition. Panama Red fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:25
|
|
|
Well, at least it seems Eraserhead is not going to be the first party.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
Panama Red posted:A more likely scenario now would be VVD+CDA+D66+PvdA, united in their mostly liberal economic platforms. I expect GL and SP may emerge as a left opposition.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Fleve posted:Do you have to involve the largest party to form a government? As in, there's no way around the VVD by, for example, combining, CDA/D66/GL/SP/PvdA? You can ditch the largest party but the coalition you mentioned will never work because of the CDA which will not work with SP i think. The CDA is the party for rich farmers and stuff. The Christian part is just extraneous bullshit. They will also never work with an ecologically minded party for that reason, and they don't work well with D66 either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:38
|
|
|
Yeah that seems more realistic, I was kinda desperately joining up the left with anything else to see whether it works, but I guess we're up for 4 more years of centre-right. Well, at least the PVV hasn't grown too much... 
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:You can ditch the largest party but the coalition you mentioned will never work because of the CDA which will not work with SP i think. The CDA is the party for rich farmers and stuff. The Christian part is just extraneous bullshit. Maybe the CDA farmers will support a coalition with D66 if it means they can legally grow marijuana?  LemonDrizzle posted:Would PvdA really go for another round with VVD after getting smashed this badly? Seems like their interests as a party may be better served by rebuilding in opposition. Given the tendency of left-of-center parties to totally ignore results when they lose, I expect the PvdA to keep up their neoliberal tune and hang on to the VVD in a bid to stay relevant. I really don't see them throwing in with GL or especially the SP with their stance as a pro-business party. Speaking of the SP, even with the PvdA losing 29 seats, the SP actually lost a seat compared to the last election. Not good for Roemer. Panama Red fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
fucken double post
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
Panama Red posted:Maybe the CDA farmers will support a coalition with D66 if it means they can legally grow marijuana? CDA farmers will loving love the results today - this group (except if they include Green Left) means that there will be no substantive action on climate change or the environment in the next period. And that the mega-stable intensive livestock farming in the South will (mostly) continue. I genuinely think PvdA is capable of thinking it's a good idea to return to power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
That was loving surprising. The Dutch still have sanity within them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:That was loving surprising. The Dutch still have sanity within them. (Nearly) all Dutch people knew Wilders would never ever become prime minister or be in charge; there's just been a lot of really poo poo POPULISM HYPE journalism in the foreign media over the last month.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
Junior G-man posted:(Nearly) all Dutch people knew Wilders would never ever become prime minister or be in charge; there's just been a lot of really poo poo POPULISM HYPE journalism in the foreign media over the last month. Let's hope that the Netherlands avoiding a populism revolution means that France and Germany will avoid it too. Also, the Fok! frontpage posters are crying that the country is doomed now or calling a rigged election. Gotta love those guys.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
Analists on Dutch tv just said that Trump was the 'game changer' for the Dutch campaign. The reason being that they saw Trump is actually executing his campaign promises. And while people would vote Wilders as a protest vote, they've now seen that extremists can ACTUALLY come through on their extreme promises, and they're terrified of Wilders doing as he promised, so they voted another party instead. Thanks Trump.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:01
|
|
|
LemonDrizzle posted:Would PvdA really go for another round with VVD after getting smashed this badly? Seems like their interests as a party may be better served by rebuilding in opposition. Haha no they will never think like this. Everything for power, jobs and money for themselves in the short term. There is nothing good about the PvdA and if there's anything good to come out of this result is that the PvdA is finally squarely in the single digits.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
Junior G-man posted:I genuinely think PvdA is capable of thinking it's a good idea to return to power. The point of being a political party is to implement your program, or at least get as close to doing so as is feasible. You have a much better chance of doing so if you are part of the government. As a result, it's usually a good idea for political parties to try and become part of the governing coalition. If you don't do so, you end up like the SP, which at the national level has been completely irrelevant for the past 30 years at least. So yes, it would not be totally insane for the PvdA to join a new government although I do think it's unlikely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:12
|
|
|
The fact that the ruling parties (VVD and PvdA) lost a lot of seats should still indicate that the status quo is unpopular in the Netherlands, even if they ultimately went lukewarm on Wilders' racism. Big gains for GL and D66 suggest that voters want change, but they support a cosmopolitan vision that is at least more socially liberal (more attention on education and the environment). Socialism/social democracy remains on the ropes, however. PvdA and SP are going to have to look themselves hard in the mirror after this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
E_Motion posted:Let's hope that the Netherlands avoiding a populism revolution means that France and Germany will avoid it too. Fok is the worst website.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Alright which one of you is the single Libertarian vote in Rozendaal?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:Fok is the worst website. Holy poo poo Fok! still exists? I though that poo poo died back in the old Hyves days. Also I think the SP did decent enough. They lost a single seat which means there's a decently stable core. In these days of faltering leftist that's about as good as it'll get. Roemer needs to step down though maybe give Marijnissen a chance. JMolen fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Analists on Dutch tv just said that Trump was the 'game changer' for the Dutch campaign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:That was loving surprising. The Dutch still have sanity within them. Yeah, it's almost bizarre to see an election/referendum these days with more or less normal results.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
Cingulate posted:Can I see a source on this? Would love to forward it to a guy I know or two. It was a 5 min bit from the all-night long election show. It might be on Uitzending Gemist later, so you may be able to find it if you're willing to dig through hours of (Dutch language) tv. These people were the campaign managers of several parties who where just asked to say what came to mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2017 22:48
|
|