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 So you've just woken up naked in a parking lot, either because of an experimental time-displacement device or for some other reason, and you suddenly have a new primary mission flashing across your screen -- you need to acquire a motorcycle. This thread is the place for you: a summary of all the information you'll need to get started, a place to talk with other new riders about new rider things, and, most importantly, a dumb newbie question safe space where you can ask dumb newbie questions without fear of mockery. Anything from "how do I change my oil" to "why does my rear end hurt" to "should I stick these cool metal spikes on my jacket" will be answered honestly and earnestly, cause everyone was a dumb newbie once before they asked someone else for the answers. (despite the photo above, please always wear a helmet; you probably don't have a hyperalloy combat chassis to protect your neural-net processor). 🏍️Ok, so, yeah, I think I might like to ride a motorcycle. What should I do first?🏍️ Sign up for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic Rider Course, or your country's equivalent. This course, usually called "the MSF" or "the BRC", is the best way to get an introduction to motorcycles and motorcycling in a safe environment with good foundations. Google around with "your country/state + MSF course" or similar terms to find a local place.  The price varies with your location; the usual cost is around $250 but state subsidies and other variables can bring that down to $100 or less. For that, you get a weekend (plus Friday night) of instruction, including classroom theory stuff and riding skills training in a parking lot. The motorcycles will be provided but you need to bring your own riding clothes -- a helmet, over-the-ankle shoes, long pants, a jacket of some kind, and gloves. There are sometimes loaner helmets available, but they're liable to be grody and give you a rash, so a better option is (if you are pretty sure you're going to get a bike) to buy a decent starter helmet of your own. If you really aren't sure and are just trying the whole thing out, ask a friend who rides -- most motorcyclists have at least one extra helmet sitting around somewhere. For the other gear, a denim jacket, workboots, and leather gloves are enough for the low-speed controlled environment you'll be riding in. You may have a range of a few different motorcycles to choose from at the class -- often small standard motorcycles (see below), lightweight dirt bikes, and a few cruiser (Harley-style) options. Any of the bikes at the class would make a good starter motorcycle, and the instructors can help you figure out the best option for the kind of riding you'd like to do. The MSF class will teach you the fundamentals of safely controlling a motorcycle, from basic use of a clutch and gearbox up to some technical exercises like emergency swerves, weaving through cones, and low-speed U-turns. At the end there's a test, and depending on your jurisdiction, passing the test may mean you can skip certain parts of the motorcycle licensing process and/or get a discount on your insurance. If at the end you decide you like motorcycling and want to continue, great -- you're ahead of the game and have some skills to build on. If you decide you don't like it, you're only out the cost of the class. (No one ever decides they don't like it.)  🏍️I am in the UK and the licensing process is different and strange🏍️ I don't know anything about getting a license outside of  -land where all you need to do to legally ride a 300-horsepower supercharged H2R is write a 40-question test. Most other first-world countries have a much more stringent process that is designed to help keep people from killing themselves. Forums poster Primitive has written a detailed post about the process in the UK.🏍️I did the class and I loved it! What's next?🏍️ Awesome! You now need to figure out your budget for both a motorcycle and the protective clothing and equipment, or "gear," you need to wear. The term you'll hear thrown around is ATGATT -- "All The Gear, All The Time." It's worth spending more to get proper protective gear that you like the feel and style of, because something that's uncomfortable enough that you just leave it at home (thus not wearing all your gear all of the time) is pointless. Estimate about $500-$1000 for gear on top of the cost of your bike, the insurance, and the MSF course -- though you can easily spend triple that much on high-end equipment, or find great gear for less if you scour Craigslist. Also check your local stores for sales; stuff on closeout can be very cheap if you time it right. I'm not going to recommend a "minimum" set of gear because there is no real minimum that anyone can tell you -- just your own sense of risk management and self-preservation. Motorcycling is an inherently risky activity and you need to decide how much risk you want to mitigate, from "none" (you're gonna die) to "all of it" (don't ride a motorcycle). Covering every part of your body, head to toe, in clothing designed for motorcycling is a good place to start. You should also start looking on Craigslist for motorcycles at this stage; getting a used bike is better than a new one while you're still learning. The specific price you'll pay is hard to button down, as local markets vary widely (bikes in San Francisco, where there's a lot of money and you can ride all year, are going to be more expensive than in rural Ohio), and the time of year has a strong effect (prices go up in the spring when people start to ride, down again at the beginning of the winter). However, if you keep at it you should be able to get a solid, well-maintained starter bike for under $2500 USD, and sometimes significantly less than that. 🏍️Okay, what gear should I buy, exactly?🏍️ Check out the second post for all the gear recommendations! 🏍️I've started looking at the dizzying array of gear options. What kind of motorcycle should I buy?🏍️ Read the third post for information on motorcycles! 🏍️Okay! I read all that poo poo, did the MSF, I got all the gear, and I bought a Ninja 250. What now?🏍️ Go out and ride! To improve your skills, the best thing you can do at this stage is practice them. Don't push yourself beyond your limits. Don't outride your sight lines (riding so quickly that you can't stop in the distance ahead you can see, for instance on a blind turn). Don't feel tempted to chase a faster rider up the hill; ride your own ride. Do ride in different conditions and see what they do to the bike's handling. Do remember that in a turn, you can always push harder. Do ask questions and rely on expert feedback. If you're looking for more information, the books Twist of the Wrist I & II and Proficient Motorcycling are helpful. Seek out some levelheaded riders in your area (check the local threads in this very forum! Most of the people here are, dare I say, more conscientious and skilled than the average motorcyclist on the road) and go on group rides (at your own pace) with them for tips and experience. Also, join the Layer Dan slack channel and chat with us in real-time: quote:If you'd like to chat on slack, you can register for the official Layer Dan Slack chat here: https://afternoon-everglades-24325.herokuapp.com/. Since nice the registration page is on the free version of heroku, it sleeps if no one accesses it within 30 minutes, so if you try to hit the registration page and it seems to be not loading, just wait a minute, it has to wake up. That's just for the registration page, not for slack itself. But most importantly, just enjoy it. Explore every road in your city and experience it in a whole new way, feeling the cool dampness as you go down into a valley and the warm thermals rising up the crest of a hill. Ride by a restaurant and smell the baking bread, or by marsh and smell the salt. Discover how a 10-minute trip to the grocery store turns into two hours of "seeing where that road goes." Feel the camaraderie the first time someone gives you The Wave. Follow a guy in a racing suit to discover an incredible road you never knew existed. Suddenly realize that you need another motorcycle, and another, and another, just one more, certainly this'll be the last one... Welcome to the community, keep the shiny side up, and hope to see you on the roads! Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 01:43
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There is no motorcycling without protective gear. Humans are squishy things, not evolved to travel hundreds of feet per second along hard stone surfaces surrounded by dangerous fast-moving metal objects. If you're not wearing protective equipment and you crash a motorcycle, you will be injured or killed. The right gear, on the other hand, can turn a fatal crash into something you walk away from. In addition to protecting you from injury in an accident, of course, gear also makes motorcycling far more comfortable. It can block the wind and sun and rain, keeps you warm crossing a mountain pass late at night, saves your eyes from grit and your teeth from bugs, keeps down the highway wind noise so that you don't go deaf. 🏍️Alright, yes, I'll buy the right gear. What do I need?🏍️ Helmets The single most critical piece of gear there is, and the one piece that will save your life in a crash. If you're planning to ride without a helmet because your state idiotically allows you to do so, stop, return to start, do not purchase a motorcycle. Helmets come in a variety of formats: (L-R) full-face, modular, dirt, three-quarters, half.      Helmets are approved by various standards organizations to verify that they meet a minimum protection standard. In the USA, any helmet must be federally DOT-certified to meet helmet law requirements. In Europe, the equivalent EU standard is ECE. You may also see Snell certifications on some helmets; this is a third-party organization whose certification is usually required by helmets used in racing. There's endless debate about which standard is better that I'm not going to get into; suffice it to say a Snell or ECE helmet is what you want. DOT alone is technically okay but DOT+Snell is better. Obviously do not buy a helmet with no certification. We call those helmets "brain buckets" for a reason. Full-face helmets enclose your entire head, from the nape of your neck to the bottom of your chin, and usually include a flip-up visor or face shield. They will also have several adjustable vents for airflow. The helmet's viewport is designed to expose your entire peripheral field of view, so your vision is never compromised. A full-face helmet is the quietest design, the best in unpleasant weather, and above all, the most protective in a crash. This is what you should be buying. Modular helmets are full-face helmets where the chin bar hinges upwards at the sides, allowing you to flip the whole front of the helmet up and away. You never ride like this; it's only to allow you to expose your face without taking the helmet off while you're walking around. Very popular with policemen, couriers, and the like. There is some debate about whether a modular helmet protects as well as a full-face, since the chin bar is only held in place mechanically instead of being molded into the design...but if there's a functional difference in safety, it's very slight. Generally just as good as a full-face while being slightly heavier. Dirt bike/offroad/motocross helmets are similar to full-face helmets, but with features that help offroad. They often have a sunshade built into the crown, and increased ventilation that both makes them cooler at low speeds and louder at high speeds. They usually don't have an integrated visor, expecting you to wear goggles instead. Not the best choice if all you're doing is street riding, but they'll work fine for that purpose if you plan to spend a lot of your time on dirt roads or offroad. Three-quarter helmets do away with the chin bar entirely, leaving your chin and jaw exposed but protecting the remaining three-quarters of your head -- hence the name. While they usually do have a face shield option, without the reinforcement of the chin bar you can't rely on this as a protective element in a crash. Half helmets (sometimes called "shorty" helmets) are cut high in the back, covering only the top of your skull from the ears up. You should only be considering full-face (including motocross) or modular helmets. Here's why:  These are statistics from a German study of thousands of motorcycle crashes. If you crash, there is a better than 45% chance that the initial impact to your head will be in the chin, face and jaw area. This makes sense if you think about what's likely to hit the ground first if you go flying forwards off your motorcycle at high speed. So in roughly half the crashes, the three-quarter helmet won't protect you, leading to you losing your teeth and needing reconstructive facial surgery. Wear a half helmet and you'll be insufficiently protected in nearly 80% of likely impacts, including those to the back of your skull that can result in instant death. Here's another good reason to wear a full-face helmet: 3D radiograph of patient who crashed not using a helmet (not gory but pretty disturbing). 🏍️I saw this helmet that has a detachable chin guard that looks like a bandana🏍️ You're talking about the Bell Rogue, probably, or one of its imitators. These helmets certainly don't provide as much protection as a full-face, and it's not likely that they're any better than an open-face three-quarter. The "muzzle" is not a structural piece of the helmet and shouldn't be relied on as such. Consider them equivalent to a 3/4 design. Helmets should fit TIGHTLY. You should pretty much have to ram the helmet onto your head, and when it's done up, you should be able to grab the chin bar and forcefully swing it up and down without the helmet sliding on your head at all. It is possible for a helmet to be too small, but that usually means you literally can't get it on your head. As for brands, Shoei, Arai and Bell are the big names. Basically any of their models will be great, after accounting for design (a cheap full-face is better than an expensive 3/4.) HJC and Icon are solid quality at a lower price -- you don't give up protectiveness, but the helmets will be somewhat heavier and noisier. Schuberth and AGV are fancy Euro brands. Oh, and while we're talking about helmets, you'll also want to get ear plugs. Not for the exhaust noise; hopefully you don't get a motorcycle that has a deafeningly loud exhaust, because it does nothing but piss off everyone around you. No, this is for the wind noise. At high (freeway-like) speeds, the wind rushing by your helmet can be 90-100dB or even more -- the same sort of noise level as operating a chainsaw. Do this for too long and you'll go deaf. So, wear earplugs. Around town you can usually skip the earplugs from a safety standpoint, but I find they make the ride that much nicer all around and use them pretty much all the time. The foam kind that you roll up and stuff in your ears work best.  Materials In a motorcycle crash your gear needs to protect your body against two kinds of damage: impact and abrasion. The impact is the initial shock and deceleration when you hit the pavement, which if not absorbed by your gear causes bruises and broken bones. The abrasion is from sliding across the asphalt as you come to a stop, which will tear off your unprotected skin. Impact is absorbed and deflected with hard armor (plastic, metal or composite) and thick padding, while abrasion is mitigated by using tough, strong, rip-resistant materials. Motorcycle-specific protective gear is not made from the same materials as other clothing. While a leather motorcycle jacket and a regular jacket from a leather store may look similar, the motorcycle jacket uses significantly thicker leather, usually the full thickness of the hide (where fashion-grade leather may be split to half or a quarter thickness), and it's tanned specifically for strength (where a fashion jacket goes for softness). A non-leather motorcycle jacket, made of material generally referred to as "textile", uses special grades of ripstop nylon and polyester that are designed to stand up to abrasion and not melt into your skin from frictional heating. A number of years ago a prominent motorcycle magazine tested the abrasion resistance of various materials by sewing a patch of the material to a sandbag, then dragging the bag behind a truck at 50 miles per hour to see how far it could go before wearing through and dumping the sand (i.e. wearing through to your skin). High-end, race-grade motorcycle leather: 40-50 meters Motorcycle-grade textile: 25-30 meters Fashion-grade leather: 4 meters Heavyweight (Levi's 501) denim: 2 meters You decide. Armor usually falls into two types: hard and soft. Hard armor is made of stiff rubber or plastic, and may be segmented to allow it to flex somewhat; soft armor is a sort of thick foam padding. Hard armor is better than soft, obviously, but either one is better than nothing. Jackets A good jacket serves several purposes: protects your arm joints from impact, protects your torso from abrasion, protects your body in general from wind and bugs (consider: hitting a flying beetle at 60 miles an hour is like being shot with a paintball), and makes you look badass. A good jacket should at least be made of motorcycle-grade materials (above) and have hard (i.e., stiff rubber) armor in the elbows and shoulders. Like other gear, jackets usually come in a regular version that is solid and windproof, and a "mesh" or "perforated" version that is full of tiny holes for ventilation. The protective value is more or less the same when talking about quality gear, so this decision is just a matter of what your local weather is like. Consider that once you're moving, you have a continuous air blast that will keep you cooler than if you were sitting still; I personally have no problem wearing solid leather gear up to 95-100 degrees as long as I'm moving along. Sitting at a stoplight can be a challenge, so avoid this wherever possible    A more race-styled jacket and a more traditional-styled jacket. Higher-end jackets may have nice options like: - removable liners, such as insulated winter liners or waterproof gore-tex ones - removable or replaceable armor, so you can move it around or upgrade it - a pocket in the back for an armored spine protector - a zipper to fasten the jacket to your riding pants, forming a "2-piece suit" - replaceable metal sliders on the outside of the elbows and shoulders for when you're chasing Valentino Rossi at Laguna Seca Brands: Jackets and pants can be roughly divided into "European" cuts and "American" cuts, and are suited for, well, European and American body shapes, respectively. If you're built like an Italian hipster, you want to look at brands like AlpineStars, Dainese, REV'IT, or RS-Taichi. If you're built more like Homer Simpson, brands like Icon, Joe Rocket, or Speed & Strength will do you well. Gloves I personally believe gloves are the second-most-important gear after your helmet. Studies suggest that the palms of your hands are often the first thing to hit the ground in a crash; the urge to throw out an arm to break your fall is deeply ingrained, even at highway speeds. Hands are delicate things, and any permanent damage to them will change your life for the worse. Furthermore, on a motorcycle you use your hands to simultaneously steer, operate the brakes, the throttle, and the clutch, so you want your gloves to be protective yet supple and comfortable, and weatherproof enough that you don't end up with numb fingers or cramps at a bad time.  Gauntlet-style AlpineStars racing gloves. Motorcycle gloves are made of leather or textile, but leather is more common (and a better choice) unless you're talking about waterproof or winter gloves. They will have hard armor on the knuckles, and sometimes in other places. Gloves may be wrist-length, designed to be worn inside your jacket, or they may be "gauntlet" gloves with an additional cuff that goes over the jacket sleeve. Gauntlets are more protective and block wind from going up your sleeve at highway speeds; wrist-length gloves may be more convenient and cooler. If you get wrist-length gloves, you should make sure they extend as far down as the ulnar styloid (the little bump on the outside of your arm at the base of your wrist) so that all of the eight little bones in your wrist are protected. Try also to find gloves with heavy padding at the base of the palm, to keep that area well protected against abrasion. Don't get fingerless gloves. Why would you ever do that? Do you really specifically dislike the top two-thirds of your fingers? Since hand shapes vary widely, you should just try on gloves from as many different brands as possible. Get ones that don't slip around on your fingers, but which also aren't too tight to bend your fingers comfortably, remembering that leather will break in and soften up over time. I'd always recommend a racing glove like AlpineStars or Dainese here because you can't overemphasize the importance of hand protection, but other brands can be good too if they meet the requirements described above. Boots I'm saying "boots" here because that is the only kind of footwear that's worthwhile on a motorcycle. In a crash, below-the-ankle shoes will immediately pop off your feet and go flying away. Watch any compilation of motorcycle crash videos to see this phenomenon in effect over and over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgKoXzbw13E So, you need above-the-ankle boots in order to keep them on your feet. Even a pair of basic leather combat boots are better than shoes, though they will only provide abrasion resistance. Proper motorcycle boots will be made of tough leather and will have internal plastic armor to protect your toes and the bones of your ankle. There will often be a rubberized pad on top of the toe area (sometimes just the left) so that you can operate the gear shifter without scuffing the leather. They will also usually include a lace-free fastening system, using buckles or zippers, because of the risk of laces being caught on the bike in a crash. Metal toe sliders are common on race-oriented boots. The highest-end boots will include anti-rotation mechanisms that prevent your ankles from being bent in unnatural ways, going a long way to save you from a broken ankle, while allowing you enough movement to use the controls.  Touring/sport-style motorcycle boots with anti-rotation ankle support. Boots are available in solid and perforated versions, as well as waterproof gore-tex models and the like. A general good rule is to try and flex and bend the boot in different directions -- the less it moves, the more it'll protect your foot. Avoid anything that is described as a "lifestyle" product -- even the most expensive gear manufacturers are sometimes guilty of making cool looking shoes with their logo on them that actually have no real protective value, and are meant to allow people who don't own motorcycles to pretend that they do. Random interesting fact: although most high-end motorcycle gear is made of natural leather, a lot of high-end motorcycle boots are made of synthetic leather instead. This is because a synthetic leather upper can be fused directly to the rubber sole more strongly than natural leather can be stitched or glued in place, helping the boots stay together in a violent crash. Like gloves, you need to try on a variety of boots to find the ones that fit your feet. AlpineStars, Dainese, Daytona, Icon, Tour Master.  Pants Probably the least-worn type of motorcycle gear but just as important as the rest, motorcycle pants protect your legs and rear end and whatever's in between. Pants are available in the same sorts of materials as jackets, and may have armor in the knees and hips. Smashing your knees into asphalt at 60 miles an hour is a really bad time so you should always wear something to protect your legs more than jeans (remember the 2-meter test mentioned up above). If you're mostly riding around town, you can buy armored jeans that are woven with kevlar fibers and have soft armor in the knees and hips, for some level of impact and abrasion resistance without looking like a full on Dainese Space Lord*. Motorcycle-specific riding pants usually have hard knee armor, zippers to connect to your jacket, and sometimes velcro to keep them attached to your boots. The highest-end pants are made of racing leather and will have replaceable metal sliders for when you drag a knee in the corners.  General-purpose textile riding pants. Note that the legs are cut slightly short and tapered to avoid them flapping around in the wind; your boot covers the ankle area. As an aside, you may also find that tight riding pants keep everything in place, so to speak, and help prevent you sacking yourself on the gas tank when you go over a pothole without tensing your legs. Personal experience. I don't know about chaps. I don't wear chaps and I don't really know what they're supposed to do on a motorcycle. I guess if you like your legs but feel that your rear end could be ground down a few inches, they're a good choice. Pants follow the same rules as jackets: European vs. American styling, buy from the same range of manufacturers according to your body type. *you should always aspire to look like a Dainese Space Lord. Suits Since this is the newbie thread you probably won't go right out and buy a $2000 racing suit, but you should be aware that they exist. A one-piece leather suit, usually seen on motorcycle racers and high-speed weekend canyon carvers, is the most protective type of gear you can get. They are usually cut to fit you in a racing crouch and are not something you'd want to wear anywhere except on the bike. If you plan to ride on a track, though, a one-piece suit is generally required equipment.   Racer wearing one-piece leather suit; touring rider wearing one-piece all-weather Aerostich suit The contrapositive (look it up) of the one-piece racing suit is the one-piece all-weather jumpsuit/adventure suit. These are commonly found on old men riding BMWs, or serious long-term all-weather commuters. If the suit is entirely high-viz neon green, add 50 greybeard points. They are very protective of both weather and damage, very comfortable and easy to get into, and very unfashionable. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 01:46
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When looking for a motorcycle to buy, you first need to decide what style of bike you'd like, based on both your own personal preference and the type of riding you'd like to do. Motorcycles come a wide range of forms that are suited to different uses. However, don't become too concerned with the differences while you're learning; in general, any beginner motorcycle will be pretty good at a wide range of things, so until your skills demand it, you don't need to specialize in one direction. A street bike will be fine riding carefully on packed dirt or a well-kept fire road, and a dual sport will be fine for a reasonable amount of highway riding. Despite the differences in style and functionality, essentially all motorcycles use the same control layout. The throttle is operated with a twist-grip on the right handlebar grip. The front brake is controlled with a right-hand lever, and the rear brake with a pedal under your right foot. With your left foot, you operate a sequential 5- or 6-speed gearbox -- you click the lever up to shift up, and down to shift down. The clutch is operated with a left-hand lever. Other controls (turn signals, headlights, horn, starter, engine kill-switch, etc) are usually operated with buttons and switches on the bars. Gauges usually include the standard speedometer, odometer and tachometer, as well as indicator lights for low oil pressure, high beam, neutral gear, and turn signals. Many motorcycles also have a temperature indicator, either a meter or an overheat lamp. While recent motorcycles generally come with a fuel gauge, it's not uncommon for older motorcycles (pre-1990s) and offroad bikes to lack one. A motorcycle without a fuel gauge will instead have a two-way fuel valve with a "primary" and "reserve" setting. You set it to primary and ride, and at some point the engine will run out of gas, start to chug and lose power; when that happens you quickly reach down and flip the valve to reserve, and it draws fuel from a lower point in the tank, giving you another 20 miles or so to find a gas station. Fun! Exciting! Don't forget to switch back to primary next time you fill up! Types of Motorcycles Standard The most common style of motorcycle worldwide. The handlebars and seat will be positioned so that you sit either upright or slightly leaned forwards, depending on your height. The foot controls are usually directly beneath your feet. The position gives you good visibility and control over the bike. Standards are the ideal all-purpose roadgoing motorcycle; small (<500cc engine displacement) standards are extremely popular worldwide as primary transportation, but somewhat less common in the United States where motorcycles are seen more as hobbies. Recently there's been a resurgence in the 250-300cc standard range, which is really great for beginners. Standards have the widest range of available engine configurations, from one to six cylinders in various inline and V layouts, but a small beginner-friendly model will most commonly have either a single upright cylinder (a "thumper") or an parallel-twin (two side by side). Cruiser The classic Harley-Davidson look. These bikes are usually long and low, with raked forks, wide bars and and a laid-back seating position. The seat is low, which can be a benefit for shorter riders. The foot controls will be in front of you, so your legs point forwards. Visibility is somewhat lower than other motorcycles. Usually equipped with a large-displacement V-twin engine, making the classic potato-potato-potato exhaust note. Sport/Supersport The MotoGP race-replica look. The handlebars are usually replaced with narrow "clip-on" controls that attach directly to the fork tubes, pulling you forwards and low. Foot controls will generally be set back behind you and high ("rearsets") to encourage this position and increase ground clearance in turns. The forwards-leaning riding position is meant to improve aerodynamics and balance at high speeds on a track; around town or at low speeds it can get uncomfortable, as your body weight needs to be partly supported by your abdominal muscles (and, when those tire out, your wrists). Supersports, especially Japanese models, nearly always use high-strung inline-4 engines that produce the familiar sportbike scream. Touring Large, heavy bikes designed for long-distance riding. Usually these motorcycles will be equipped with three or more hard luggage cases, two individual heavily upholstered seats, large windshields, stereo systems, air conditioning, cruise control, and other features to make long interstate rides more comfortable. Seating position is somewhere between a standard and a cruiser, and the weight is on the extreme end of the scale -- so much that some models come with electric reverse gears as walking the bike backwards up a hill may be impossible. Common slang for a touring motorcycle is a "bagger." Engine layouts vary; American tourers tend to be based on cruisers and have large V-twins, Japanese tourers use powerful I4s, and the BMW R-series use flat-twins (with the cylinders sticking out on each side). The Honda Gold Wing is a popular old fart touring bike that uses a flat-six like a Porsche. Dirt/motocross Lightweight bikes with low gearing, long-travel suspension and knobby tires, designed for offroad use. They have a low top speed but their gearing and power allows them to easily wheelie and catch air off jumps. Dirt bikes have upright standard-like seating, but when riding offroad you rarely sit down, instead standing on the footpegs. Dirt bikes therefore have large, heavy-duty pegs and narrow, hard, somewhat uncomfortable seats. They are designed to crash with minimal damage; usually you can just pick the bike up after you dump it, engine still running, and keep on riding. Dedicated dirt bikes may not be street-legal (missing a headlight, turn signals, etc.) and may have only a kick starter. Dirt bikes are nearly always single-cylinder thumpers, producing lots of low-speed power and keeping the bike light, narrow and easy to overhaul, but this also means they get very buzzy at high engine speeds where something like an I4 is smooth. Adventure/Dual-Sport Dual-sport motorcycles are street-legal bikes meant for use both on and off the road. Dual-sports are usually made either by installing offroad tires, suspension, gearing, etc. on a light street bike, or by adding lights, electric starter, and other on-road features to a dirt bike. The resulting bike is usually still geared more towards the type of riding the base motorcycle was designed for, so keep that in mind. A Honda CB500X is much more on-road and a Suzuki DR-Z400S is much more offroad, despite both being called "dual-sports." Usually thumpers or light twins. Adventure bikes are a special class of dual-sports that are significantly larger and heavier, meant for long-distance touring across all sorts of terrain. Sort of a cross between a touring bike and a dirt bike. If that doesn't seem to make sense, don't worry -- you're right. Adventure bikes are not great dirt bikes and less than optimum for touring. They are well suited to, well, adventuring -- riding long distances at moderate speeds through parts of the world where the roads are bad. Suffice it to say there are not a whole lot of people with that particular use case for a motorcycle. But ever since a certain actor made a TV show they have become extremely popular as coffee-runners with dentists and accountants who fancy themselves Adventurers. You may also hear the older term "Scrambler" from time to time. This refers to a specific style of early dual-sport (late 1960s), converted from a street motorcycle by adding knobby tires and running the exhaust pipes high along the side of the bike (to protect them from rocks). It also refers to modern imitations of this style, primarily built by Triumph and Ducati. Supermoto A Supermoto is a dirt bike converted as far into a street bike as you can go. In essence, you keep the dirt bike frame with its long-travel shocks, torquey motor, and low gearing meant for shooting up hills and off of jumps, but add street-bike wheels, sticky racing tires, powerful brakes and suspension tuned for handling. The result is something that lets you ride like a dirt bike rear end in a top hat on the streets. The ultimate urban vehicle in many senses. Scooter/Maxi-scooter Scooters are a special sub-category of motorcycle. Traditionally, a scooter is a small motorcycle with a small engine (49-150cc single cylinder, where small highway-capable motorcycles start at around 250cc) mounted directly to the rear wheel, driving it through a single-speed centrifugal clutch like a chainsaw. The engine position clears up space in the middle of the frame, allowing a "step-through" design that you sit on like a chair instead of straddling like a saddle. The centrifugal clutch eliminates shifting and clutch use; you just twist the throttle to go. Scooters are usually meant for short in-town errands and commutes, and rarely have a top speed of more than 50mph. The flip side is that they are extremely light and maneuverable, able to make sharper turns and fit in smaller gaps than a full-size motorcycle. A strong person can pick one up and carry it away (this is both good and bad). In general, if you learn to ride a motorcycle you can also ride a scooter, while the reverse is not true thanks to the motorcycle's more complex clutch and gearbox. Licensing laws reflect this; all motorcycle licenses entitle you to ride scooters as well, while some places also have simpler/cheaper scooter-only licenses for those who just want to ride a scooter and don't intend to move up to a motorcycle. Maxi-scooters are just that -- a scooter scaled way up. They will still have the step-through design and "automatic" centrifugal clutch, but will be sized to carry two people, have engines between 200cc and 650cc (note that this often means you need a full motorcycle license to ride one), and can keep up on the highway. People often feel that scooters are in a different category from motorcycles, treating them less seriously and wearing less protective gear. The road doesn't care if you crash at 40 miles an hour while riding a motorcycle, a scooter, a bicycle, or a shopping cart; wear the proper gear. Others Most of these categories can be further divided, depending on how nitpicky you want to get. For instance, "cruiser" includes both stripped-down, raked-out choppers and heavy, well-upholstered baggers. You may also see hybrids of any of these styles, depending on what a manufacturer's marketing department was smoking on any given day. "Sport-tourers", for instance, are bikes with sportbike-like power in a larger, heavier, more comfortable frame suitable for high-speed commuting and long-range touring that would be uncomfortable on a supersport. You'll also hear about "power-cruisers" and "sport-standards" and "muscle bikes" and "UJMs" and "streetfighters" and "underbones" and on and on and on... Finally, all motorcycles you can buy today use four-stroke engines. Older bikes, especially dirt bikes, may use two-stroke engines. Don't get a two-stroke as your first bike. 🏍️Okay, so now I'm more confused. Can you just tell me what motorcycle should I buy?🏍️ Short answer: a 1988 to 2007 Kawasaki Ninja 250. Search your local Craigslist or equivalent, aim to spend $2000 or so, and bring a friend who knows bikes to help make sure everything is in order. You can't go wrong with this choice.  (Note that some countries have licensing restrictions that prohibit a new rider from operating a bike with an engine above a certain displacement, and a 250 may be out of this class. In that case, you'll have to ask locals what smaller bikes they recommend, but except for a few rare cases, any cheap street bike under 250cc is going to be mostly the same as any other, regardless of manufacturer.) Long answer: As a beginner, the most important thing about your first motorcycle is that it be forgiving. You will make mistakes when you start to ride -- everyone does -- and you don't want those mistakes to lead to a crash. To get a bit more technical, a "forgiving" bike is lightly tuned, light weight, and maneuverable. I personally like to say the ideal beginner bike is "under 4 cylinders, under 40 horsepower, under 400 pounds, under 4000 dollars" but there are many different opinions on that. Furthermore, for your first motorcycle you should buy a used bike in good condition rather than something new. The main reason for this is that you will drop your motorcycle at least once while learning it -- maybe not a crash, but just a stupid moment when you step off and forget to put the kickstand down, or something. Even at low speeds this usually results in scratched paint, maybe a dented gas tank, and some busted-off control levers and turn signals. Everyone's had an experience like that, and the first time it happens, you want to be on a bike that's already got a few scratches and dings rather than seeing your brand-new shiny motorcycle crunch away $1500 of value in two seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4 The Ninja 250 (EX250 in some markets) barely changed at all over the twenty-year period of its manufacture, and for good reason. It's a perfect starter motorcycle and general-purpose commuter. With a 250cc parallel-twin making 30 or so horsepower, it's light and easy to maneuever, very cheap on gas, but has no problems keeping up on the highway. It is available in a variety of  colors and doesn't look particularly outdated or particularly fancy. Just a good all-around bike. Don't let the "Ninja" name, usually associated with supersport racing motorcycles, fool you. In this case it's purely a marketing brand. The EX250 has an upright riding position and a gently tuned engine designed for everyday use. Because it's been around for so long, parts are cheap and easy to come by, and anyone can fix it. Specific prices will vary extensively depending on your market and the time of year, but one great thing about the Ninja 250 is that there are always new riders looking for them, so after a year or two you can pretty much always sell one for the same price you paid. Kawasaki currently sells the Ninja 300/EX300, the modern descendant of the Ninja 250. It is also an excellent choice for a first bike, and like many newer bikes it has an option for anti-lock brakes, which are an extremely valuable safety feature that you should get if you have the opportunity. Of course, a Ninja 250 is just the most recommended starter bike, not the only option. For most average new riders, a 250/300cc-class standard street motorcycle is the best way to start, and that also includes the Yamaha YZF-R3, the Honda CBR250R or 300R, and a few other less common models. Rather than giving an exhaustive list here, I encourage you to ask in the thread if you have specific questions about a different model. However, there are a few special circumstances to address: 🏍️I'm huge and fat and a giant and I don't think a 250 would work for me🏍️ The Ninja 250 will handle people up to about 6'2" and 220ish pounds without an issue. If you're over those dimensions, the bike will still hold up but the suspension may be getting too squished or the riding position getting somewhat cramped. The Ninja 500 or Suzuki GS500E are reasonable choices if you're heavier; they're 500cc-class bikes but not so powerful to be dangerous, and they're a bit larger and stockier. If you're extremely heavy (300lb+) a 650cc twin like the Suzuki SV650 may be a valid option, but ask in the thread.   Ninja 500 (left), GS500E (right) If you're very tall, the most comfortable choice for you will probably be a dual-sport of some kind. The long offroad suspension and high bars mean you don't have to fold yourself up as much. A Suzuki DR-Z400 or Kawasaki KLR650 would be good options here.   DR-Z400S (left), KLR650 (right) You can also modify nearly any motorcycle to accommodate any size and shape of rider, of course, but you don't want to get into that when you're just starting out. Learn to ride first, then start messing with the bike. A final note on this point: Cycle-Ergo is a great resource for estimating how you'd fit on a variety of different motorcycles, and comparing between different models. 🏍️I want a dual-sport so I can go both on- and off-road.🏍️ In this case, you probably want something like the Suzuki DR-Z400 or the Yamaha WR250. The DR-Z400, Cycle Asylum's mascot bike (in SM trim), comes in three different models. The "E" model is an off-road-only dirt bike, the "S" is a dual-sport for on- and off-road use, and the "SM" is a Supermoto. The WR250 is a dirt-oriented dual-sport. The Kawasaki KLR650 is also a decent option here if you're big and tall. The specific type of off-road riding you want to do (do you want to just take the occasional fire road, or blast around in sand pits?) will change the type of dual-sport you want quite drastically, so ask in the thread. 🏍️I want a cruiser, like a Harley-Davidson, but I can only find one 250, the Honda Rebel?🏍️ Starter cruisers follow a slightly different set of rules. Because of the way cruiser V-twin engines are designed to deliver power, you're generally safe to go up to the 600-700cc range (e.g. a Honda Shadow 600, Suzuki Boulevard S40) for your first bike. Even a Harley-Davidson Sportster 883 is a reasonable choice. The relaxed geometry and lopey engines mean cruisers are inherently less likely to throw you on your rear end for making a bad move, and you're not going to accidentally power-wheelie yourself off the back. However, don't think this applies to all cruisers in general; the larger ones (1200cc and up) have huge amounts of torque that can get you into trouble really quickly. Cruisers are also heavy, with a longer braking distance and wider turning radius than other bikes, so don't get cocky.   Shadow 600 (left), S40 (right) The Honda Rebel 250 deserves a special note because is a tiny little bike, not at all what you'd expect looking at the pictures online. It's styled like a cruiser but it's really more of a standard, and it's best suited for a short, lightweight person. It's especially good if you have very short legs, because it has an extremely low seat height so it's easy to flatfoot at a stoplight. I know a number of sub-160cm (5'3") women who are very happy with their Rebels for running around town, but if you're much larger than that or need to go on the highway regularly you really need something bigger.  Rebel 250 Update: Honda now sells the Rebel 300 and 500, which are no longer tiny like the 250 and as such a normal-sized person can ride them. Both bikes have the same frame; the 300 is a little more fuel efficient (and is designed to fit into a lower class in the Japanese tax system) while the 500 is a little more powerful. Either one is a good choice for a beginner. 🏍️I don't know how to drive a stick-shift. Are there automatic motorcycles?🏍️ Yes, there are a few...but you probably don't want to go that route. The vast, vast majority of motorcycles use a traditional five- or six-speed manual transmission and clutch, so if you want to be able to ride more than one bike, you need to learn how to operate a transmission. Luckily, motorcycle transmissions are a fair bit easier to learn than the stick-shift in a car, and mechanically more forgiving of mistakes. Half a day in the parking lot (or the first couple hours of the MSF) and most people are good to go. If you are unable to operate the clutch or shifter with your left hand/foot, though, or if you're really dead set on something automatic, your options are limited to - A handful of expensive Honda bikes with dual-clutch automatic transmissions - A smaller handful of extremely rare older Honda motorcycles with torque converters - A scooter or maxi-scooter with centrifugal transmission (the vast majority of them) - A direct-drive electric motorcycle like the Zero S or Brammo Enertia. 🏍️I want a cool vintage motorcycle / cafe racer.🏍️ First things first: a "cafe racer" was, traditionally, a 1950s/60s street bike converted for road racing by British teenagers on a budget. This meant imitating the racing trends of the day: low, swept-forward "clubman" bars, rear-set controls, long, narrow gas tanks, single-place seats with faired tails, small windshields or headlight fairings, and everything else stripped off for weight reduction. They were made to race from one motorway cafe to another (hence the name) and were not comfortable or convenient or forgiving to ride. All of that still holds up today. Do not buy someone's cafe racer project as your first bike and do not try to convert your motorcycle into one.     An actual cafe racer; a Honda GB500 replica cafe racer; a fairly well-executed modern cafe racer conversion based on a CB350; a more common type of cafe racer usually seen on craigslist. Retro-styled motorcycles, on the other hand, do have a certain appeal to them, in the simplicity and classic aesthetic of their design. The new Triumph Bonneville, for instance, has sold extremely well on this basis alone. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of bikes with a classic look that are also suitable for beginners; usually they're too heavy and/or too powerful to start on. The Yamaha SR400 is about the only model in current production that has the vintage look and is appropriate for a beginner. Of course, you can also look around for a genuine vintage bike like the Honda CB/CL350 (1968-74) -- and speaking as someone who bought a non-running CL350 as his first bike and learned to fix it up, I do not recommend it if your primary interest is riding a motorcycle instead of working on a motorcycle. Feel free to ask for more details if you're considering this route.   Yamaha SR400; Honda CL350 (1968) Really, your best option if you want a vintage/vintage-styled bike is to get the Ninja 250, ride it for a year to build up your skills, and then re-evaluate your attitudes and test-ride some of the options (Triumph, Moto Guzzi, Royal Enfield, Ural, or actual classics) to see what you think of them with some experience under your belt. 🏍️I want a crotch rocket / supersport.🏍️ There are plenty of great first motorcycles with similar styling to a supersport. Check out the Yamaha YZF-R3, the Kawasaki Ninja 300, and the Honda CBR250R. At this early stage in your learning, you won't gain any benefit from the higher-performance parts on a 600cc or larger supersport bike, so the styling is all you should be looking for. Learn to ride your starter bike to its limits, and your skills will be ready for the upgrade to something bigger. With the right skills, a good rider on a 250 can embarrass an average rider on a 600: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz03sQeX02c  No, I mean I want an R1/Daytona/600RR/GSXR/ZX10/etc The word for these track-focused supersports is unforgiving. They are extraordinarily powerful, enough to power-wheelie at freeway speeds or 12-o-clock you off the back at a stoplight if you screw up with the clutch. The engine power allows them to spin up the rear wheel in nearly any gear, which is a great way to accidentally crash in a turn, either by lowsiding (crashing inwards with the bike sliding ahead of you) or highsiding (being catapulted off the top), depending on how you screw up. The steering geometry, clip-on position, and suspension are set up to pick a line through a curve and track it like a rail, not to easily make sudden dodges around potholes and pedestrians in street riding. The brakes will be powerful enough to lock the front with a single finger and throw you over the bars. The riding position is uncomfortable at legal speeds. Maintenance will be more expensive and your bike will be a prominent target for thieves. Nothing about them is beginner-friendly. In essence, if you make a mistake on a starter bike -- and you will make mistakes -- it will scare you but you'll probably get out of it without any damage or injury. If you make a mistake on a supersport, something bad is going to happen to you. Don't take the risk.  But my friend says I'll outgrow a small bike and want to upgrade right away When you start to ride a motorcycle, you initially won't be used to the power and acceleration of even a small bike. Opening the throttle all the way will be a nerve-wracking experience, and every time you twist it hard it'll feel like entering warp drive. The exhilaration of shooting forwards like that is addictive, but like any addictive drug, the more you use it, the more accustomed to it you'll get. Eventually you'll start to pin the throttle without being scared, and feel like you're used to the acceleration. For most people, this is between three and six months into riding. They figure they've "outgrown" the bike and start thinking about moving up to something bigger. NO. Stop. You are not ready to upgrade. You aren't an expert at operating a motorcycle yet. All you have figured out is how to pin the throttle and go in a straight line. This stage, when your confidence in your skills is ahead of your actual skill level, is the worst possible time to get on a larger bike. Most people have their first accident or near-death experience around this time, pushing the bike harder and getting themselves into situations where they haven't yet developed the automatic instincts to save themselves when something goes wrong. Furthermore, you're not even close to reaching the performance limits of your motorcycle. You can continue to develop your skills on that bike for a long, long time before it truly starts to "hold you back." Stick with your starter bike for at least a year, or ideally longer, and continue to learn. Well I have another friend who started on a liter-bike and he's still alive Do you really want your measure of success to be "didn't die", or do you want to become a good rider? Even if someone gets a huge powerful bike as their first and manages to avoid crashing it, their riding skills will probably be pretty bad, because their experience has constantly been trying not to piss off the angry demon between their legs -- and, as a result, they never learned how to push a slow bike to its limit. A powerful supersport might be in your future, but ideally not for several years, after you've gone up through a handful of smaller bikes and done a number of track days to practice high-speed high-power riding.  I'm gonna get the Hayabusa anyway Okay, but please buy a GoPro and ensure that your next of kin knows how to post videos to YouTube so others can learn from your mistakes. builds character posted:Don't forget to watch all of the take no prisoners videos. That's the best way to learn! Indeed. Every six months or so, these No Prisoners videos come out on YouTube, compilations of all the motorcycle crashes posted online since the last one. While at first it seems like a grim subject, these are actually quite powerful learning tools -- hundreds of examples of situations where things went wrong, so you can analyze what caused the crash and try to avoid doing that in the future. I wouldn't recommend watching the videos while you're still brand new and already intimidated enough, but later on if you steel yourself up you genuinely can learn from others' mistakes. (Hint: the vast majority of the crashes could be prevented by simply Not Being A Stupid Dumbass.) Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 5, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2017 01:46
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🔧Maintenance🔧 Like any other machine, motorcycles need to be periodically maintained in order to work properly and reliably. Keeping up with the maintenance is especially important on a motorcycle, though; not only will the riding experience obviously be better when everything's working right, but the possible consequences of poor maintenance are worse. Mechanical problems on a motorcycle are more likely to lead to crashes than in a car, and crashes are far more likely to lead to injury. So you need to keep your machine in good working order! There are both upsides and downsides to motorcycle maintenance when compared to cars. On the downside, the parts on a motorcycle are smaller and weaker, and under higher stress. Even a lightly tuned motorcycle engine, like that in a Ninja 250, has the sort of power-to-displacement ratio you'd see in a high-end sports car, and that load makes parts wear out faster. This means you have to maintain the vehicle more frequently. On the upside, the parts are smaller and cheaper. Though you do the maintenance more often, it usually doesn't cost anywhere near what it would on a car. You use less fluids, you have half as many tires and brakes to deal with, and so on. Furthermore, the maintenance is usually much easier to do; pretty much everything mechanical is right there in front of you, and you don't need a large garage or a lift or serious power equipment. This means you can do most of the regular maintenance yourself with nothing more than a parking space and a few basic hand tools. This post covers some of the common things you'll need/want to do, in general terms. Obviously every bike has different service procedures, but the tasks are usually similar. If you plan to do your own maintenance (and you should, within reason), you'll want to pick up the official shop manual for your bike. This is the one that's published by the manufacturer, not Clymer or Haynes -- the third-party manuals are decent but the official manual is more complete. Get both if you can. For less common bikes you may have to search eBay or look for a PDF online, but as long as you don't have a totally rare and weird bike you should turn up something eventually. Example: Honda CB/CL/SL350 Shop Manual 🔧General Checklist🔧 There are a couple of simple things you should always be keeping an eye on in order to keep your bike in safe operating order. Examine these ideally every time you ride, or at least every time you fill the gas tank; remember that a maintenance problem can turn into a crash much more quickly than it would in a car. Tires Your tires are the number-one most important thing to keep in good condition. You only have two of them, each one with a far smaller contact patch than a car's, and if either one fails it can easily cause you to crash (at least until you develop the lightning reflexes and instinctive skills required to safely ride out a flat). Before every ride, check your tires for cracks, gouges, bubbles, nails, staples, oil drips, or anything else that seems out of place. Ensure that the pressure is correct; a few PSI difference up or down can change the bike's handling dramatically. A bicycle pump works fine for motorcycle tires if you've got some stamina. Don't continue riding on a tire that's worn past its limit or dry-rotted with age. Never use tire-shine substances like Armor-All on motorcycle tires; you need the whole surface to be as sticky as possible. [something about date codes] Brakes After your tires, brakes are the next most important: if you can't stop, don't go. Ensure that your brakes lock both wheels from a stop, without needing to apply excessive pressure to the levers. Listen for squealing noises when stopping that may indicate you have oil on the brake rotor or that your pads are worn out. Check the feel of the levers, especially for the front; it should compress to a point and then stop hard. If the lever feels "spongy," you probably have air in your brake lines and need to bleed the fluid. Make sure that the brake lights come on when the levers are pressed; there's a microswitch on each one that may need to be adjusted if not. Chain The motorcycle's drivechain carries all the power to the rear wheel, and must be kept in good condition to do so safely. Chains need to be regularly lubricated using an appropriate lubricant -- do this about every 300-500 miles, or every other gas tank. Any product sold specifically for motorcycle chains is fine (usually just called "chain lube" or "chain wax"), or in a pinch you can use the same oil as the engine (which will work fine but may fling off faster so keep an eye on it). Spin the rear wheel with the bike in neutral and look for any kinks or tight spots in the chain, indicating a lack of lubrication or the beginnings of rust. In addition to lubrication, the chain must be tensioned properly. The exact way to check your chain's tension depends on the bike, but in general, if you poke the center of the lower run of the chain with your boot, you should be able to move it up and down about 1-2 inches. Too tight and you can cause damage to the transmission; too loose and you risk have the chain fly off. Check the manual for the proper procedure for adjusting the tension if needed. Never ever work on the chain with the engine running. Don't try to be lazy and lubricate the chain by running the bike in first gear while spraying the chain. If you get your hand caught in the moving chain, it will tear off your fingers before you can react. Don't be stupid. If your bike has a drive belt instead of a chain, lucky you: none of this is necessary. Suspension Hold the front brake and compress the forks, bouncing them up and down. Make sure there's no binding at any point and there are no strange squealing or loud squeaking sounds. Ensure that there's no oil dripping out around the smooth chrome fork pistons. Do the same for the rear suspension by bouncing up and down on the seat. Hold the bars straight and look down at the front wheel, making sure that it doesn't appear to be obviously tweaked to one side. Turn the bars side to side and make sure they don't get bound up by the cables. Lights Make sure all of the lights work, as well as the horn. While this might seem like a lot, after a while it only takes about 30 seconds to take in these main points and look for anything out-of-place. [to be continued....] Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 08:55
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I'm wondering if I'm gay if I want to ride a scooter. Thoughts?
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Feb 20, 2017 18:29
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Don't forget to watch all of the take no prisoners videos. That's the best way to learn! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHUmevSHFJk
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Feb 20, 2017 19:59
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Great OP duder, I'll try to write up some stuff about UK/EU laws and stuff soon. This dude is the bomb for learning things about wobbling around on two wheels, an experianced motorcycle instructor from 'up north' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFm3honeTQo
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Feb 20, 2017 20:16
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Good stuff sage.-Inu- posted:I'm wondering if I'm gay if I want to ride a scooter. Thoughts? I worried about this until I rode a burgman; now I just embrace the gay. Feels good and, despite some bad PR, amazingly comfortable for your rear end.
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Feb 20, 2017 22:48
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Keket posted:Great OP duder, I'll try to write up some stuff about UK/EU laws and stuff soon. This guy is good for learning fun stuff in the dirt. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJAvmhgP0h1AEKY8vTEJPJg
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Feb 20, 2017 23:12
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I took the MSF last December because Harley Davidson was offering it for free to first responders. I told myself I'd just learn how to ride and get it out of my system (if I dispel the mystery I'll dispel the interest, I figured), but like Sagebrush says in the OP, that's not how it works. And so the main reason I haven't bought a bike and gear yet is because I have no income I'll be bookmarking this thread to come back to when I'm willing to take the plunge. This is great information--thanks for posting this, Sagebrush. Also thanks for that radiograph--I'm going to send that to my paramedic instructors.
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Feb 20, 2017 23:17
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Dick Burglar posted:I took the MSF last December because Harley Davidson was offering it for free to first responders. I told myself I'd just learn how to ride and get it out of my system (if I dispel the mystery I'll dispel the interest, I figured), but like Sagebrush says in the OP, that's not how it works. And so the main reason I haven't bought a bike and gear yet is because I have no income Oh boy have I got a video for you. Presentation on Irish road racing medics. Basically these guys ride with the racers to act as first responders on the longer Irish road racing courses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsZBXlTHPCg Keket fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 23:31
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tl;dr. buy a dirtbike, be happy.
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Feb 20, 2017 23:52
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shacked up with Brenda posted:tl;dr. buy a dirtbike, be happy. True story. It will also help you ride in conditions with limited traction. Like when you mess up on the road. In the interest of full disclosure I love riding in the dirt Couple good movies: dust to glory (Netflix). Road (Netflix). Hitting the Apex. (Amazon). Fast/faster/etc. Lyndon Poskitt's races to places is good on YouTube. The televised (online) sports are motogp, supercross and motocross, hard enduro and trials. Traction erag is a good online magazine. E: a video on an American hero. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3bsik8WllsI builds character fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 03:36
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shacked up with Brenda posted:tl;dr. buy a dirtbike, be happy. To expand on this, skills you pick up on a dirt bike will translate to street riding. If you can handle a 250-cc thumper off-road and aggressively get around dirt trails, you will find street riding to be incredibly easy. This is a personal belief but I think that experienced off-road riders can "skip" the beginner bike (experienced meaning you can tear rear end down a trail, push the suspension to the limits over washboard trails and are considering your next brap to be a CR500). The only question is why anyone that has access to awesome trails and such would give a crap about street riding, because you'll be longing for an open trail after sitting behind the SUV that sat through the green light twice looking at Pinterest.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:49
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Ripoff posted:To expand on this, skills you pick up on a dirt bike will translate to street riding. If you can handle a 250-cc thumper off-road and aggressively get around dirt trails, you will find street riding to be incredibly easy. This is a personal belief but I think that experienced off-road riders can "skip" the beginner bike (experienced meaning you can tear rear end down a trail, push the suspension to the limits over washboard trails and are considering your next brap to be a CR500). Several reasons, like: Being able to wheelie over the kerb and around the SUV Getting tyre-melting sideways in corners that make sportbike riders whinge about cold tyres and stiff suspension Wanting to go faster than 60km/h without feeling like you're gonna die
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Feb 21, 2017 03:53
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awesome thread Sagebrushbuilds character posted:Couple good movies: dust to glory (Netflix). Road (Netflix). Hitting the Apex. (Amazon). Fast/faster/etc. Has there ever been a moto media thread or master list with movies, shows, youtube channels etc? I thought about making one a while back but wasn't sure if there would be enough conversation to keep a thread alive.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:56
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Slavvy posted:Several reasons, like: 60km/h. Hah! Pulling wheelies at 80+mph in the dirt.  hot sauce posted:awesome thread Sagebrush I don't think so. I'd be curious to hear what everyone else watches. Don't forget the icon videos. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvYAcJOx3s Or the reason that folks who ride scramblers are more about lifestyle than riding off-road. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwtWRc5ikMs
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Feb 21, 2017 04:29
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builds character posted:Or the reason that folks who ride scramblers are more about lifestyle than riding off-road. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwtWRc5ikMs How are people not burning the poo poo out of their upper thigh constantly on the Triumph Scramblers? I'm lucky to be used to an under the seat exhaust, but that looks like the worst placement ever for the exhaust.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:07
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MomJeans420 posted:How are people not burning the poo poo out of their upper thigh constantly on the Triumph Scramblers? I'm lucky to be used to an under the seat exhaust, but that looks like the worst placement ever for the exhaust. There's a heat shield on most of the exhaust, but the headers are exposed just in front of your knee. So in the normal riding position you're fairly safe but I could see getting burned if you slid forwards too far or stuck your leg out wrong. I own an ~actual~ scrambler from the 1970s and the heat shield extends well forward of where you get your legs, so there's no real concern about burns. The only time I burned myself on the exhaust was when I fell over in a sand pit and wasn't careful about leg placement while hauling the bike back up. Sizzle.  (not mine but that's what mine looked like when it was brand new) Ripoff posted:This is a personal belief but I think that experienced off-road riders can "skip" the beginner bike (experienced meaning you can tear rear end down a trail, push the suspension to the limits over washboard trails and are considering your next brap to be a CR500) I think this is probably true from a riding dynamics standpoint, and someone with a lot of dirt bike experience and an understanding of throttle control, wheel traction, etc. could safely start street-riding on something like an SV650, which is more usually a good second bike. But dirt riding doesn't teach you much about riding in traffic -- trees don't suddenly pull out across your path, and boulders don't slowly merge over and push you off the trail. That sort of stuff still needs to be learned, and you're gonna be in a more dangerous spot until you develop the sixth sense for when a car is about to do something stupid. -Inu- posted:I'm wondering if I'm gay if I want to ride a scooter. Thoughts? In the newbie thread we answer questions earnestly and honestly. No, wanting to ride a scooter does not make you gay. If you want to ride a scooter with member of the same sex on the back, though, rear end-to-fun-bits, you could possibly be gay. The best way to tell is if you are riding a scooter home from having sex with a member of the same sex. Then you probably are gay. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 07:49
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Ripoff posted:The only question is why anyone that has access to awesome trails and such would give a crap about street riding, because you'll be longing for an open trail after sitting behind the SUV that sat through the green light twice looking at Pinterest. gold star for the day Sagebrush posted:develop the sixth sense for when a car is about to do something stupid. hahahaha Slavvy posted:Wanting to go faster than 60km/h without feeling like you're gonna die hahahahahhahaha
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Feb 21, 2017 14:10
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This thread is excellent. So I'm in the process of getting going with this whole thing, and I plan on buying my bike in June, due to saving money and not wanting to sidetrack my other financial goals. I've bought my helmet, a Shoei RF1200 (which is the most exciting $500 mixed buyers remorse I've ever had on my head). Now I'm looking at the rest of the kit before I take my MSF. I figure I can get away with just buying the boots and gloves for now, but I'll be starting my riding in the summer... so, questions: 1. Is there a decently protective mesh or very breathable textile jacket recommended for tall people (6'4", 235lbs) that doesn't murder my budget? I figure I'll be buying leather as it gets cold, since I'm in NC and it snows like once a year for a day and a half and I'll just ride any day it's not freezing. I'm gonna put all the d3o/foam/whatever I can into it, so slots for that would be a plus. 2. Any recommendations for sport/touring boots for size 14 feet? I'm going full on spaceman, but i'm not fit enough for the fancy leather suits just yet. 3. I'm looking at the SV650 and the FZ-07 for the first bike. I'm buying new, I know I'll drop it, but it's my money and I've driven the same car for the last 11 years, I don't think i'll be upgrading any time soon, and those two bikes don't seem *too* fast. I know the SV is popular among larger new riders, but I haven't heard much about the FZ, though by the numbers it looks very similar. Thoughts?
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Feb 22, 2017 17:11
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spouse posted:This thread is excellent. So I'm in the process of getting going with this whole thing, and I plan on buying my bike in June, due to saving money and not wanting to sidetrack my other financial goals. #1, Jacket: I've owned 3 of these and crashed in one while just in the mesh, it held up well. It's not the most protective on the market but can get you through 3 seasons easily and if you bundle up correctly maybe 4 depending on your area. The outer shell it water proof and will stand up to most things except a torrential downpour. Then when it gets warm the entire outer shell zips off and you have a mesh jacket.: http://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/jackets_and_vests/textile_jackets/joe_rocket/alter_ego_3_textile_jacket.html #2, I commute in these, daily. They are decently warm and are waterproof. I wear them all day at work and can walk about in them for a reasonable amount of time (about 2 - 3 hours). Again not the most protective but a very good balance of protection, comfort, and waterproof: http://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/boots/waterproof_sport_street_touring_boots/tour_master/response_2_waterproof_road_boots.html #3. Both bikes have about the same horsepower and torque numbers with the SV slightly more horsepower and the FZ slightly more torque. The SV is 430lbs claimed wet weight and the FZ is 397lbs. 3.8 gallons on the SV, 3.5 on the FZ. (slightly less for california models). With the specs that close and you have your heart set on buying new or close to new. Go to a dealer, sit on them, and stare at each for a while. See which one grows on you more. Another option for gear is to go to motorcycle-superstore and browse through their 70% off and clearance section: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/search/go?N=19010000+519026+98014 50 - 60$ mesh jackets: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/70566/i/motocentric-squadron-jacket http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/70567/i/motocentric-assault-jacket 50$ boots: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/70572/i/motocentric-sector-shoes 16$ gloves: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/51232/i/speed-and-strength-run-with-the-bulls-gloves Though on that stuff, finding something in your size can be hit or miss. Skreemer fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 18:20
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Thanks for all your advice. That jacket looks awesome! I have a cyclegear near me, i'm gonna see if they have it in stock and try on a bunch of stuff. 
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Feb 22, 2017 18:41
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Get yourself some kind of pants too, anything with knee pads as even a low speed slide will rip through most fabrics like butter.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:52
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You should also look into used gear on advrider.com if you're anywhere near average middle aged American size. Then buy what you want when youve been riding for a while and know what that is.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:52
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Keket posted:Get yourself some kind of pants too, anything with knee pads as even a low speed slide will rip through most fabrics like butter. Definitely! I just know I gotta go try those on in person since I fit pants weird. builds character posted:You should also look into used gear on advrider.com if you're anywhere near average middle aged American size. Then buy what you want when youve been riding for a while and know what that is. I've got a reasonably muscular build for size/weight, but pretty square around the midsection, so a lot of super-euro cut stuff does not work at all. I'll take a look at that.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:58
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spouse posted:Definitely! I just know I gotta go try those on in person since I fit pants weird. Just, FYI, you have to read everything on there in the voice of wilford brimley in his diabetus commercials.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:17
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I got a bunch of newbie questions don't know where to start. So here they are at random order. * I got my bike license 10? years ago, it was so long ago I can't even find the record of it on my gmail. I never had a chance to ride anything again because I don't have cool friends. Do you think I should take the MSF again? * The reason I want to get a bike now is that my commute looks like this in the morning. If you live in New York you know the traffic is terrible and there is no free parking. So what do you guys recommend as the good commuter bike? I am think going form CB300F to SV650 a few years down the road. I just like naked bikes. I have no idea what bikes are good for commuting. * I don't mind getting a used Ninja even though I don't like its look. A quick google of "used Ninja 250 new york" shows me some listings that's not very cheap. What website should I use for real world beginner bike price beside buying one from a goon? * whatever7 fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 20:05
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No harm in doing it again, how long since you last rode? Supermoto, you'll sit above most traffic so you can lane split easy as gently caress, they're comfortable and have great nimble handling for navigating the city.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:33
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whatever7 posted:I got a bunch of newbie questions don't know where to start. Take the MSF again, if nothing else to get a feel for a bike and the controls again in a more or less safe and controlled environment. And if you drop the bike, it's not yours. Naked bikes are decent for city commuting, though I will warn you that city riding is about the worst. From taxis and bicycle commuters attempting to take you out along with the rest of the regular public crammed together and everyone having a "gently caress you, got mine" attitude, it can just be hell. Keep your head on a swivel and I would almost tell you not to commute that route until you had complete no eyes control of your bike. Granted I rode in Chicago when I started to learn but I tried to take it easy and went down at night to get used to the cramped streets and really lovely sight lines of the side streets. As you're leaning that way anyway I'd almost tell you to forgo any kind of type/brand loyalty and just find one that looks "ok" but is in decent shape mechanically. Anything to keep joe crackhead thinking it'd be great to steal, and will keep you from crying when a taxi of box truck knocks it over trying to park. I'm not sure about pricing in new york, but a decent bike I would look at in the 2K and up range. I'd say goon it up on a super moto but drat those are expensive in your area. https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/mcy/6008262803.html https://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/mcy/6008700646.html https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/mcy/6007425743.html (get it fully looked at before trusting it, it'll run forever with a little up keep) https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/mcy/6014680626.html https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/mcy/6011377836.html https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/mcy/6002353268.html https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/mcy/6017181713.html I'd stay away from rebuilt cafe racers or vintage bikes. You want to be riding it, not constantly fixing it and worrying about parts availability. For gear, take a look at the post I made for "Spouse". Add a decent set of riding overpants to that and your doing fine. The dirt cheap stuff at motorcycle supercenter is OK and will get you going but it's no frills, but sometimes dirt cheap closeouts have their place. As also suggested I would hit up other forums for used gear if you find something you like.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:40
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Thanks. I think I will take MSF again (mainly to make my wife feel safer.)
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Feb 24, 2017 21:00
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1. Don't get anything that looks like a dirt bike or a sumo because it will get stolen. 2. Why not take the 59th street bridge (they have a carpool lane in the morning on the upper level and you can split through all the nonsense to get to the FDR) and then go down the FDR? Never hurts to avoid some tolls and the parts of that commute that would be bad, you can split through. 3. If you want a mechanic to look at a bike, speed motorcycle is supposedly the best in the city. The super angry guy at triboro is a jerk but is apparently also a good mechanic. I don't really think it'd be worth it to use him but I do my own wrenching. 4. Bikes are expensive here. When you figure out what you want for your next bike, expand the range a little bit and look at NJ and outside the city as well. You can rent one of those big white vans that production companies use for a couple hundred bucks to go pick it up and bring it back and that's often a lot cheaper than buying something in the city.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:08
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Most of what I was gonna say has already been posted, but my pro tips are 1) I'd suggest taking the MSF again. Can't hurt, and if your only experience was an MSF weekend ten years ago you probably don't remember it very well. 2) CB300F is a great first bike, no issues there. People specifically recommend a used Ninja 250 cause they're older and cheaper and it's better to buy used. A new(er) CB300F might have ABS brakes, which is a really great safety feature. A couple-of-years-old CB300F ABS would be probably the perfect first bike if you can find one within your budget. 3) Look outside the city. Consider that driving a couple of hours might mean saving several hundred dollars. Get a friend who rides to go along with you and ride the bike home if you're not comfortable riding a few hours just yet (no shame in that), or rent a truck. I've never bought a vehicle that was located less than two hours away from my home.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:41
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I'll contribute if that's OK SO YOU WANT TO GET YOUR DAS LICENCE IN THE UK The licencing process in Europe is a basket of snakes presumably designed to keep people from killing themselves. As a side effect, it's really confusing to a transplant. I'll share my licencing experience in the UK as a roadmap for people trying to get licenced. OK LET'S GET STARTED - Get your licence The first thing you need to do is send off for your licence. This requires having a NI number, a process not worth getting into here. After applying, the DVLA will send you a licence in the mail in a few days. This entitles you to provisionally drive cars and motorbikes. - Do your CBT Your motorbike entitlement isn't actually "live" until your do your Compulsory Basic Training. This is a one day course that generally costs ~£75 that covers basic motorbike operation, road craft, and ends with a brief road test. This is roughly equivalent to taking your MSF. The course is generally done with twist-and-go scooters (automatic transmissions) so you have less to think about while you're trying to keep the drat thing upright. Upon completing the course, your motorbike entitlement is "validated" and you can operate bikes with up to 125cc displacement and no more than 9 hp or so. - Get your gear conversion If you're like me and have never operated a bike before starting this process, even though you're entitled to use a manual bike you still will want to take some training. A "gear conversion" is pretty much like CBT round 2, except it's done on a geared bike. This is usually another £80 or so. Once you're through with this, you're ready to run a geared bike on the road. - (Optional) "Rent" a 125cc The funny thing about the bike market in the UK is that there are an infinite number of Honda or Yamaha fuel injected 125cc bikes around the £1000 range. You can easily and safely buy one almost at random, ride it for 6 months, drop it a couple of times, and then sell it on for the same money. Though you can skip this step, these things are so cheap and easy you owe it to yourself to rent one for a few months and figure out if you really like this biking thing before spending actual money. - Take your theory test This is £25 or so, a simple computer based test which tests your roadcraft skills and hazard awareness - Find an instructor for your DAS You will need to find a school for your direct access. Why? 1. The schools book the slots at the test centre directly, so it's really to find a slot at all if you don't go through a school 2. You need to test on a bike bike if you want a full unrestricted A licence, but you can't operate one on a provisional licence unless you are in radio contact with an instructor 3. Nobody's going to insure you in a bike you're not authorised to operate So look for a school. The sad truth here is that schools generally work with a single test centre, and that not all test centres are the same. Look up the pass rates for the centres near you and ask when you call around to schools which centres they work with. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/motorcycle-riding-test-data-by-test-centre Depending on the time of year, your course will be £600 to £900 inclusive of bike, insurance, instruction, and test fees. - Course structure The courses will be several days long, cumulative in taking your formal tests. Day 1 is generally familiarisation, essentially your third day of CBT. What makes this different is the fact the bike is a lot bigger, heavier, and more powerful, so you have some relearning to do. Day 2 is generally covers Mod 1 content. The bits they will drill you on are the U Turn and the slalom. They might also take you to some abandoned roads to practice emergency stops. Day 3 is primarily road craft. The instructors will take you to the roads where the examiners commonly travel and point out common pitfalls (e.g. roads in the area that have uncommon traffic patterns, correct navigation of roundabouts, etc.) Day 4 is generally held at the test centre, on the actual Mod 1 course. Here you will practice on the actual course that will be there at the day. The instructor will play examiner (don't forget your shoulder checks!!) - The tests There are two tests, Mod 1 and Mod 2. I'm not going to explain what happens on a Mod 1, when you can just watch this: https://youtu.be/fxwx7AqU7ZU If your school is confident you will pass your Mod 1 first try, they will schedule your mod 2 immediately after. If you fail your mod 1 like this, expect to pay for both a new mod 2 (~£30 ish) and a mod 2 (~£70 ish) . Your Mod 2 is essentially a test of your road craft and awareness. You'll be following directions from an examiner behind you. In the beginning he'll direct you to specific places he wants you to go so he can observe you handing various traffic patterns. Toward the end he will direct you to follow street signs to a destination to ensure you can navigate. At the end he will discuss your results with your instructor (if you failed) or congratulate you if you passed. He or she will take your licence and the DVLA will send you a new one with your new entitlement on it. That's pretty much it!!
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Feb 24, 2017 23:10
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This is a phenomenal first few posts, thanks so much for it. I forwarded it along to my friend who is taking the MSF course in a week
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Feb 24, 2017 23:35
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Just to add to the UK thing, you don't NEED to do a geared conversion course at all, most places will ask if you want to do geared or auto when you book. Even then you can just pass on a auto 50cc scoot and learn geared on your own time. Remember you have to renew your cbt every two years if you don't have your full or A2 licence, and you have to be over 24(?) to do an unlimited (das) licence, until then A2 is your limit. Also some places offer a cbt with your das if you haven't done it yet. But yeah basically all 125cc bikes are pretty much the same so buy whatever takes your fancy at the time if you don't want to go straight over to your das/A2.
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Feb 25, 2017 00:32
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Hi guys, alot of good advise. Right now, the biggest issue is still getting the green light from my wife. I think I am going to retake the MSF, get the gears online first and then worry about bike shopping and my wife. This bike (GW250) looks good. I wasn't aware this is an option. I will keep an eye on it as well. builds character posted:2. Why not take the 59th street bridge (they have a carpool lane in the morning on the upper level and you can split through all the nonsense to get to the FDR) and then go down the FDR? Never hurts to avoid some tolls and the parts of that commute that would be bad, you can split through. Never considered that route because the traffic going up to the bridge is terrible. I will reconsider it when I have a bike. What do you guy think about the 2015 CB300F deals on cybertrader like this one?. Think I will get a lemon if I don't check it? How much can you haggle from the internet price? How do you check market price for used bike? Is there a Truecar app for bikes? I have a CRV, think I will stuff it inside the CRV and bring it back to new york? Just some general questions, I am not ready to buy it. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 18:01
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whatever7 posted:
http://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles https://www.kbb.com/othervehicles/ Generally pick something you think you want to ride and go find the cheapest/most mechanically sound one you can find. 2016, looks clapped out and has a whole boatload of "go fast" parts on it and almost no miles, look at it but be wary. The same model 2013 bone stock and just a few scuffs here and there, receipts for the work done such as oil changes and tires, but has some miles, definite consideration. I'm not sure you can fit the bike into your CRV standing mostly up. You can't just lay a bike on it's side, fluids will leak all over, and not just the gasoline. If you have a hitch receiver, you can get a motorcycle specific trailer from U-haul for 25$ for the day or a 4"x7" open utility trailer for 15$ (in Texas at least).
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Feb 25, 2017 19:12
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Skreemer posted:The bike market is the wild west in terms of pricing. The guides are mere suggestions: Agreed - you need a hitch for a crv. If you have a dirt bike you can use a hitch carrier, but for the bikes you're looking at, just rent a motorcycle trailer from uhaul. Just post the bikes you're thinking about here. Remember there's a NYC premium.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:01
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I was able to fit my CL350 into a Mazda minivan, but it's a fairly small bike and it was a close fit and I think I had to swing the bars down. Any smaller car than that, yeah, you need a trailer.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:18
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