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This is 1 update in the future so hopefully not too spoiling but since it's a minor thing and people are talking about it Mark's weapon is the only one which is glaringly really weird. Yuki is armed with small thrown razors which are easily concealed and talking to her reveals she had a history of being a violent delinquent. Everyone else is armed with scalpels and mops that they find lying around in the hospital, despite if they look like swords and stuff in the character sprites. And as for the other weapons they get there is a plot point made of it but that is a bit later Persona 2's cast, from what I remember mostly had pretty small or easily concealed weapons like handguns, or goofily concealed weapons like Eikichi's gun / guitar case. Though I think they had them before the "in-story justified" weapon shops appear.
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Mar 1, 2017 03:23
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Item Getter posted:The Persona awakening music is highly recommended and one of the worst exclusions from the PSP soundtrack. Though I didn't realize until now Kandori's theme didn't make the cut either. Yeah, like I mentioned in the OP, the PSP version did a bit of cutting when it came to music - the PSP soundtrack has 67 tracks as opposed to the PS1 version's 109. Luckily the dungeon themes tend more towards remixes rather than entirely new tracks. Your comment also reminded me - how much extraneous dialogue were any of you interested in? GoneRampant posted:Well, consider me another member of the Persona fanbase who's never played this or either of the P2 games. I have a PSTV so I can buy this if I want it, which I may do if the LP makes it look worth my time. Whether or not you go through playing the game depends a lot on your appreciation of (or perhaps tolerance for) old 90s RPG dungeons and turn-based battles with a slight twist. I still really love the game, but I have a high tolerance for dungeon crawling.
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Mar 1, 2017 06:25
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I'd be interested in seeing 100% of the extraneous dialogue you want to show.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:34
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Some of it fills us in better on the characters and setting, which is done more sparsely in the plot cutscenes, but every room features someone whose job it is to remind you of the main objective... so by now we'd have been exasperatedly told to go to the hospital like 30 times. We can at least skip that type of lines for sure
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Mar 1, 2017 11:20
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I got reasonably close to the end (about two main areas to trot through) before I got distracted by other games at the time. I honestly don't hate the way the game plays, but it's not really fun to play either. We'll get there when we get there, but it was my biggest complaint with the game. On the flip side, I really like the team's dynamic, particularly between Mark and Nanjo, the goobers. The NPCs also have quite a bit of character and I appreciate that they went the extra mile to do the translation from the ground up. I'm excited to see where you take this and how you approach some fights.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:12
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Oh sick, glad there's another Persona 1 LP going on! I love so much about the idea and aesthetic of Persona 1, and 2 as well, but I feel this game really puts its full weight against you not having the best time so I've always dropped off around the middle. Good luck to you, I'll def follow this! As for extra dialogue, please show all you can without having your head explode. I remember spending like an hour or two running around the school and Mikage-cho getting flavor text and while I found it fun, I'm pretty sure I'd die if I had to transcribe it all. Seeing Tamaki an update back made mad that that Shin Megami Tensei if... fan translation still hasn't finished in like two years. I think there's an LP of it on the archive and I don't think it's a technically great game, but my dumb brain needs to play it.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:38
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Update 4 - PERSONA! Last time our heroes awakened to their Persona, but it wasn't enough to save Nanjo's beloved Yamaoka.   Without you, I'm all alone... No one is here to encourage me... No one...will stand by me... Nanjo seemed like a little boy in front of that old guy... Failing to protect the ones you love... Nothing hurts worse than that. I didn't think he was gonna cry... He must've really loved that old guy. Mad Hospital Dungeon - Hospital (After Disaster) The post-disaster hospital is our first real dungeon of the game, with demons crawling all over the place. The mini-map has been improved from the PS1 version, as it now shows us where we've been before highlighted in yellow.  Bringing up the full map shows us both where we've been (and which way we've been going) and a small part of where we can head to. You can now also cycle through different floors.  There are a few stragglers left behind besides us. Doctor: Dammit, why can't I get to the ICU!? There's a patient in there! I have to treat the Sonomura girl...! Nurse: The TV's not working, and the phone's dead too! What in the world is going on!?  Hopefully they won't mind if we just borrow some of this medicine. Not like they'll be needing it, right? A Lone Prayer Common Battle Taking a few steps lands us into our first battle of the game, so I'll go over the battle system which which is likely the reason that many people just kinda stop playing it.  The first thing to notice is that despite being a turn-based RPG, Persona's battle screen takes place on a grid. Both weapons and spells have a specific range they will hit, and you can set where each character stands. You can change where your characters are during battle, but it takes up a whole turn and so strategically won't be used much or at all. Persona 1 also has a whole boatload of spell and attack types that didn't make it into most of the newer Persona games, such as Miracle, Gravity, Nuclear (back for P5!), Blessing, Prayer, Occult, Tech, Rush, and Special. You don't really have to worry about knowing the names of skills for this reading, as I'll be sure to mention names and effects when needed.  Here's another irritating quirk of the battle system: EXP is entirely based on who acted during battle. While every other Persona game (and most RPGs) evenly distribute EXP at the end of battle, this game has it so that EXP matches up to how much a character did during battle, seemingly dependent on how much damage they did and if they hit an enemy's weakness. This leads to situations where slower characters who can't act before a battle ends earn less EXP and don't level, so players must then make their fast characters guard to allow slower characters to act. In the end it's just a lot of unneeded micromanagement that I'm surprised they didn't change in the PSP remake.  Every level-up nets you 3 points you can place in any of the 5 stats, letting you customize Naoya's build.  So, for Persona themselves, Persona don't become stronger by leveling up but rather by ranking up. When a Persona is used in battle enough, they will earn a new rank (up to the max, 8), which raises their stats and sometimes bestows a new skill to them. Here Seimen Kongou has learned Delyte, a move which inflicts the Blind ailment and will prevent the affected from taking any action.  Persona are sort of like a second set of equipment, as they will influence the stats and resistances of the character they're used by. Every Persona is associated with a specific arcana, and each character has an arcana affinity which determines which arcana they are Best, Good, Bad, or Worst with. Characters can only use Persona with arcana they are Best or Good with.  Of course, your party isn't stuck with their initial Persona. To create new Persona, the first step is to collect spell cards from the various demons you meet by striking up a conversation with them. Each character has four different actions they can take during conversation, which will direct the flow of conversation.     Of course, we all know Mark's "Dance" option is the best one:   Demons will react to a character's actions in one of four different ways: Anger (red), Happy (orange), Eager (yellow), or Scared (blue). Which one you want depends on what you want from the demons, and you can even combine emotions for other effects (i.e. Eager + Happy will get you a gift and a chance at negotiation).  Getting a demon angry will just piss them off, either making their power increase or binding the character who contacted them.  Scaring a demon will either bind them, make them give you a gift, or simply make them run away from battle. This one is good if you need certain demons to leave the battlefield.  Making a demon happy will inflict the Happy status ailment, which causes them to sometimes not act during their turn. They may also choose to give you gifts.  Lastly, making them eager allows you to strike up a deal with them. You can ask them to leave or ask them for a gift, but the main thing you'll be using this for is getting spell cards.   Spell cards are the only way to get new Persona, so it's in your best interest to take some time during dungeons to get a few (though you can only hold 12 at a time). Apart from using them to make new Persona, having a demon's spell card means that any time you talk to them in another battle they will leave and sometimes give you a gift. Those are the basics of battle which will take you through the rest of the game. More specifics such as status ailments, buffs/debuffs, etc. will be brought up when needed. The party continues through the hospital.   I'm worried about Maki too, but let's get to the streets. I have a bad feeling... I can still feel Maki here... Hang on, Maki. We'll find you. >You can sense Maki's pain just by looking at it...  I always thought you were a pushover, Naoya... I'm surprised how calm you are. I wonder if there are other patients besides Maki in trouble right now... The doctor on the first floor examination room will give you free healing as much as you want, since the only other source of healing is any medicine you found as well as Yukino's Dia spell. Agaysta Tree Augustia's Wood The last stop before leaving is the Agaysta Tree, whose PS1 theme sounds almost downright devious. This full-grown version of the plant in Dr. Natsumi's office is just one of the several trees spread all throughout Mikage-cho who are more than happy to save your game for you.  Tension Generic BGM-B We haven't time to waste here, Naoya! It's too late for her, but not for us! Yo, Naoya! The monsters are just around the corner!We just spent thirty minutes fighting off monsters, Mark. A few more won't hurt.  Don't give up! I could really use a hand, Naoya! Eh, why not. Okay, you take that side! It's no good! They're coming!  A familiar face walks in.   Oh, my! There are demons here too? A Lone Prayer Awakening Legend (Battle - Awakening) No worries! I may not look it, but I'm a rather capable fencer. Eriko! This is no ordinary enemy! Sheesh, that girl's crazy!  Eriko awakens to her Persona, Nike, the Greek goddess of strength, speed, and victory who assumed the role of the divine charioteer. Space Elly's Theme It's me... and I'm it... Eriko? Hey! Are you okay? Nike... The archetypal portrayal of Christian angels... No good. She's completely gone. Eriko! Snap out of it! *gasp* I-I'm sorry... I'm all right. I am an angelic bringer of victory! From now on, you have my protection! Elly strikes a pose, elegantly poised and ready to fight for justice.    Eriko... you dreamt of the butterfly, didn't you? How do you know about that? I've seen it quite often in my dreams... Ever since I played the Persona game. Just as I thought. That dream must be the cause of the phenomenon... Yes... There are demons everywhere. And it's impossible to leave town. I looked everywhere, but it seems that the school is the only safe place. Oh? The school's safe? Let's go back there, Naoya. Oh, but I nearly forgot! We should go to the shrine first. Maki's mother is hurt. She collapsed there... What!? Dude, why didn't you say so before!? Let Butterflies Spread Until The Dawn City 1 - Post-Disaster As Elly said, Mikage-cho has been enveloped in an ethereal wall that traps its residents inside. On a better note, "Let Butterflies Spread Until The Dawn" is in my top 3 PSP themes  Elly brings our team up to five members, and luckily the game brings her up to the rest of the party's levels. We also get some new conversation options.  Ducking down into the 2nd ward gets us some suspicious activity near the SEBEC building. Better go check it out. Appearance! Huh? Oh, hey, yeah, it's Reiji. What's he doin' here? Black-suited man: Don't make me tell ya twice. Past here is SEBEC territory. You don't listen, maybe you get shot to death. That dumbass! He's gonna get himself killed! Mark swiftly approaches the two, pushing himself beside Reiji.  C'mon, blockhead, time to go. Tch... You guys again. Just like always, Reiji leaves without another word.  So even you'll lend a hand to others... Interesting. I wouldn't have thought it. Idiot! Even guys like him have moms... She'd be sad if he got gunned down. I don't like this... This isn't how an ordinary company acts. What could this mean? I heard SEBEC was a Fortuna 500 company... But this may as well be a Mafia front operation. Hey, doesn't Maki's mom work for SEBEC? What in the world's going on...? SEBEC... What's Kandori's game? Speaking of mothers, the party heads over to Alaya Shrine in the 1st ward to go check on Maki's mother. Strange Atmosphere Shrine Oh, what an exquisite butterfly! The golden butterfly flaps around and circles the party before returning to its place. Hey... Is it me, or is there something strange about that butterfly? Wh...What's up with this thing!? The shrine darkens and then flashes bright white.  Scene - The Power of Will   We meet again, my friends. Are you used to your Personas now? As you have seen for yourselves, events are moving in an unexpected direction. Only those with a strong will are capable of stopping the flow that has gone awry. From here on, a number of paths will present themselves to you. Down each of them, you will witness the karma of those you meet. But whatever path you choose, remember that the choice was yours and no one else's. Daily Life Shrine "Truth is strange than fiction"... Evidently. To be present for another once-in-a-lifetime event... How magnificent! Nnh... Nrgh... H-Hey! Did you forget about Maki's mom here? Setsuko raises herself to her knees, clutching her head. Lady? Are you okay? This is a gunshot wound... Who did this to you? Kandori's... goons... Kandori!? The president of SEBEC? The alterations to this town... Kandori's behind them all... I... was involved in the development of a certain device... A device... And you're saying this machine is causing the changes? It's engineered to affect reality. But I didn't think it could do this... Kandori said... he doesn't care what happens to this town... I have to hurry and tell the police! Oh dear... The police station is already overrun with demons. I just came from there. My God... But Kandori has to be stopped...! ...How did you escape, Ma'am? Through the abandoned factory... It has a secret freight entrance. Use this security card... Setsuko falls to the ground again. Whew... she only passed out. We have to get her to the school, quick! ...You handle this, Naoya. I got business to take care of. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained..." I'll come with you. Remember, you won't be able to get near Kandori without this card. Nanjo meets Mark at the door, and the two of them depart back into the city. H-Hey! ...Tch, thanks, guys. C'mon, let's go back to the school ourselves. Honestly! Men never think about how the ones they leave behind feel. Those two do have a similarly reckless temperament. Well, I'm sure they'll give up and come back once they see the place. The golden butterfly floats back into existence, watching over the group. PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 20:09
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It's really exciting to see an LP of this game and how things have changed over the years (only played P2ISP)! The grid system seems like a more in depth version of stuff like rows, but it feels like a pain. Personally, I'm a big fan of NPC dialogue, so I'm all for more of it!  Though if it stretches out updates too much, maybe put it in LPix at the start of updates or put them as bonus updates?But if you're planning on doing Persona 2 and its NPC dialogue, go with my prayers... 
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Mar 3, 2017 21:56
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Booky posted:It's really exciting to see an LP of this game and how things have changed over the years (only played P2ISP)! The grid system seems like a more in depth version of stuff like rows, but it feels like a pain. Yeah, I think less important fluff dialogue will go in a bonus update, or I could do what Mega64 did in their Mother 3 LP where they had dedicated "town dialogue" sections. Putting them in a separate LP Tester window is a good workaround. For P2, I'm planning on probably doing an SSLP of IS's PSP remake, since it was also requested in the request thread. If I start transcribing dialogue now, maybe I'll be finished by the time this LP is over!
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Mar 4, 2017 02:41
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Elly is the best.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:14
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PeaceDiner posted:For P2, I'm planning on probably doing an SSLP of IS's PSP remake, since it was also requested in the request thread. If I start transcribing dialogue now, maybe I'll be finished by the time this LP is over!  I tried playing the PSP remake but couldn't get past the lack of Japanese battle dialogue - see, I'd played the translation patch for the PSX version of the game and fell in love, and making a switch to a new and different audio track is really hard, especially when literally everyone in it sounds like a character from Persona 3.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:17
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Oh hey, I was just thinking about how I wanted to see this game through but never actually touch it a few days ago. Thanks for reading my mind. And you plan to do the first part of Persona 2 too? I cant wait.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:59
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I'm so glad they kept "Mark danced crazy!" in the game. I really hope around 2020 when we get the first part of the FF7 remake, that they sneak "this guy are sick" somewhere into the game. I don't really get why they changed the "joy" color when contacting demons to orange instead of green, feels like having half the colors be red - orange - yellow might be too confusingly close. They're sparingly used but I like how the original Persona 1 (and also 2 I think?) had a distinct musical theme for nearly every character. I'm really surprised that P3 onwards dropped this, despite the later series' increased focus on the main characters and their growth. I guess it has to do with the PS1 era games having lots of composers and a huge number of tracks in the soundtrack. StrixNebulosa posted:
Just patch the game to make Tatsuya's English voice 3X lower and you should feel at home. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 05:29
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Booky posted:It's really exciting to see an LP of this game and how things have changed over the years (only played P2ISP)! The grid system seems like a more in depth version of stuff like rows, but it feels like a pain. It's pointless formation politics really. There's probably only one or two cases in The Ruins' optional boss battles and maybe once during the story you'll want to change it up. Other than that, there's usually a go to method for formations with a slight change if he's going for who I think he's going for. PeaceDiner posted:
There are a ton of elemental spells, but Persona 2 would do a much better job at making which elements you attacked with give a drat (with exception to Ice). In Persona 1, a good two-thirds of the time, they were distinctions without really differences. Barring type matchups or elemental affinities, if an enemy was weak to say...electricity, odds are good they're weak to gravity, nuclear and force as well. In PSX Persona 1, the translation would sometimes group weaknesses like this as "weak against spirit" or outright tell the player only one of the weaknesses, which is why Devil Arcana personas were marked as "Strong against everything" but unless you knew that there was actually a reason to use the words "Holylight and Evildark" that you knew they'd be weak to holy magic (nothing about the spear weakness, then again physical attacks won't be what kills you in this game). Also, I too grew up on the PSX version of the game and admittedly fell quite in love with it. Unlike others, I can still go back to that version and play it often and well; if only for the musical score which I still think holds up quite well. One thing the PSP version does right though is a much better interface that actually shows you what's going on in depth. Interestingly enough, going back to the PSX version after the PSP version reveals that most of what's seen in this game was in the original as well; but never highlighted or explained to show the player what's going on. I'll save some pieces about that for later, but I'm glad to see an LP of this game at last! Tactless Ogre fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 06:16
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Item Getter posted:I don't really get why they changed the "joy" color when contacting demons to orange instead of green, feels like having half the colors be red - orange - yellow might be too confusingly close. Yeah, it seems like having those colors so close would be difficult for people who are colorblind. Can't wait for more crazy Mark dancing!
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Mar 4, 2017 07:23
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I post too much grousing about the PSP remake, but, I tried the PSP version for the first time today, people rightly mention about most of the original music missing but I didn't realize that like half of the sound effects are missing also. Most notably they took out the really cool sound for summoning Personas... (though the animation is mercifully sped up) And all the demon contacting related sounds are also gone, which makes it feel pretty dry. I also kind of feel like the translation is a bit off, like the characters' diction is a bit too stilted and intellectual sounding for some high school kids speaking casually. Maybe it's overcompensating for the overly plain language of the original translation, or (more likely) I could just be imagining things based on what I am used to.
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Mar 4, 2017 13:01
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Item Getter posted:I post too much grousing about the PSP remake, but, I still don't understand why they chose to remove the sounds myself. The PSP was able to handle that, don't know why they should. Regarding the translation; I didn't think it was off in terms of translation but vocal delivery. It's the Innocent Sin Tatsuya thing where the voice actors sorta forgot they're supposed to be voicing kids; with exception to Masao, Ayase, and possibly Brown.
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Mar 5, 2017 07:20
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Tactless Ogre posted:I still don't understand why they chose to remove the sounds myself. The PSP was able to handle that, don't know why they should. Regarding the translation; I didn't think it was off in terms of translation but vocal delivery. It's the Innocent Sin Tatsuya thing where the voice actors sorta forgot they're supposed to be voicing kids; with exception to Masao, Ayase, and possibly Brown. It's probably because some of the sounds were considered "too silly" Either that or because they took up too much time when all the animations were sped up. It kind of makes the game more lifeless though, especially for goofy things like the "dance" attacks being completely silent. Don't mind the voices so much since they're sparingly used. New Mark is kind of fun, PSP Ayase is annoying even though it fits the character.
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Mar 5, 2017 08:16
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Item Getter posted:It's probably because some of the sounds were considered "too silly" The latter is probably the better answer. "Too silly" in a game with evil, exploding, hula dancing toilets is a weak answer.
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Mar 5, 2017 09:08
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There are 3 main reasons I could never get into this game. 1. I strongly dislike the "use any persona" nonsense, especially when the method here in p1 makes no sense. The absolute last thing I'd think was a good idea would be to put the concentrated essense of a demon into my pysche. My enjoyment of 3 and beyond was helped greatly by limiting it to the protag, and if I had it my way I'd still remove that and replace it with some kind of role change system where you can have several skill sets and stat spreads for each role. Canon representations of their pysche are only cool when you can actually use then the entire game. 2. Tbh, I just really hated the art. 3. The general oldness of it and being a stupid kid with no patience back then on vacation who immediately sold the game back to gamestop. Really glad to finally get the chance to see this through, kind of weird to notice P4 takes place in Mark's last name. Also your user name was mentioned too so I'm gonna assume your a pretty big fan. Also100% of non generic dialogue should be shown, and I know its too late but if you have the confidence for 2, I absolutely adore it when Lpers give a voice to silent protags.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:57
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MythosDragon posted:There are 3 main reasons I could never get into this game. The Persona differences between P1-2 and P3 and beyond was something I said I'd talk about, as conceptually I think it's interesting. I posted about this in the main MegaTen thread, but I may as well post about it in here as well. In Persona 1, the reason why every character can change their Persona is rooted in the fact that Personas are supposed to represent the varied selves within somebody, and everybody has several different masks they use. People are better at some than others (which is why characters have different arcana compatibilities), but they can still be switched depending on the situation and people involved. These Persona come about as a reaction to life's difficulties (in the game case, fighting with and speaking with demons), and some are more difficult to get than others - sometimes you must work hard and gain enough experience in life (to get higher-level Persona). With Persona 3, it seems to dismiss that idea and instead runs with the idea that a Persona is a single mask that a person had developed and that this Persona is only a means to an end, that this Persona will eventually be shed for another. Indeed, Jung warns that strong identification with a single persona will inhibit a person, and that those with a strong ego relate to the outside world with a flexible persona. This speaks towards P3's themes of unity and growth of characters, which leads to their awakening. The awakenings also speak to Jung's idea of the regressive restoration of the persona. The character must awaken to a new persona, because if not then they will attempt to keep their social reputation within "the confines of a much more limited personality... pretending that he is as he was before the crucial experience." There's probably more to say, but overall, both the early Persona titles and later Persona titles play on Jungian psychology in different ways. The decision to have the main character be a wild card while the others keep only one Persona was likely done due to the increased number of avaliable party members, and the switch from Ranks to Levels was also likely done for gameplay reasons, but I think it's interesting to see how they played with the Jungian themes established with the first 2 games. I'm not sure which I prefer, to be honest, as I have fun with both of them. However, it may be very true that the Persona system of P1-2 wouldn't mesh with the gameplay mechanics of P3-5 as the player is not afforded as much time to make Personas. Moving on from fun psychological stuff! I've never done any sort of voiced protag in my LPs, but I might try it out for P2 (seeing as the protag's got a more canon voice than P1's protag).
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Mar 6, 2017 04:44
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The idea that every character has within them infinite possible Personas is also a major theme in the overall story of the early games. And since all the Personas are supposed to exist already dormant within the characters, they aren't "taking the concentrated essence of demons into themselves" but rather the opposite, letting a specific Persona which is already within them come up to the surface. PeaceDiner posted:However, it may be very true that the Persona system of P1-2 wouldn't mesh with the gameplay mechanics of P3-5 as the player is not afforded as much time to make Personas. I'm not sure what you mean about "not having as much time" but I would agree that the P1-2 system wouldn't mesh with P3-5's mechanics. I would more say that Persona 3-5's persona system was designed to work well together with the overarching life-sim concept and its Social Links system, as well as Persona 3-5's variant of the Press Turn battle system. Since the level bonuses from Social Links are an integral part of creating Personas in those games, and they're supposed to represent the protagonist's own relationships it wouldn't make sense if the other characters had access to them as well. The all-out attacks and enemy knockdown features of the battle system would become extremely broken if you could switch all characters' Personas at will P2-style... or if you could give characters the sort of well rounded Personas you can make with the game's adoption of a Nocturne style Persona fusion system with skill inheritance. It's also likely a relic of Persona 3's questionable "you can only control the main character" "feature". As far as personal enjoyment, I think they're all fine but Persona 2's system was the worst in hindsight, since the importance those games give to Fusion Spells means that if you're like me you are constantly switching everyone's Persona each turn in order to spam fusion spells.
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Mar 6, 2017 05:28
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Item Getter posted:I'm not sure what you mean about "not having as much time" but I would agree that the P1-2 system wouldn't mesh with P3-5's mechanics. I would more say that Persona 3-5's persona system was designed to work well together with the overarching life-sim concept and its Social Links system, as well as Persona 3-5's variant of the Press Turn battle system. Since the level bonuses from Social Links are an integral part of creating Personas in those games, and they're supposed to represent the protagonist's own relationships it wouldn't make sense if the other characters had access to them as well. The all-out attacks and enemy knockdown features of the battle system would become extremely broken if you could switch all characters' Personas at will P2-style... or if you could give characters the sort of well rounded Personas you can make with the game's adoption of a Nocturne style Persona fusion system with skill inheritance. When I say "not enough time," I meant how P3-5 are built around a calendar system, plus you may also need certain Persona for Social Links, so trying to juggle having that many Persona would be a lot more difficult. I guess the intermediary between the P1/2 system and P3-5 system would be Persona Q with its Sub-Persona system, which a lot of people felt broke the game (it's been awhile since I played it, and I only played it once).
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Mar 6, 2017 05:58
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The sub-persona system worked alright, they were essentially just another type of armor/accessory. You can short circuit the difficulty curve if you know how to abuse it, but when has that not been true for JRPGs? No, the real issue with PQ 's gameplay has a lot more to do with the enemy & dungeon design. Especially the dungeon design.
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Mar 6, 2017 07:38
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PeaceDiner posted:Moving on from fun psychological stuff! I've never done any sort of voiced protag in my LPs, but I might try it out for P2 (seeing as the protag's got a more canon voice than P1's protag). Eek, no thanks. My knee-jerk reaction to this is always to be wary because it can be mishandled so badly - I was bothered by the speaking protagonist in the LP of SMT I a while back, and, well, you'd have to be really, really careful in how you handle it.
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Mar 6, 2017 07:44
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Despite playing Persona 3-4 first, I tend to like the Fuse Personas For Everyone idea more, just for adding more control and customization. The initial release of Persona 3 having all your party members be AI controlled is really weird in hindsight coming off of 1 and 2, though understandable given the changes they wanted to make. I like Philemon's "People live by wearing different masks. Your current self may be only one of those innumerable masks." a lot tho, so it feels silly in 3-4 when all your friends are just like "man it is super weird and lame that you get like a million of these things" versus everyone in Persona 1 and 2 having Entity Contact with mental gods Also yeah, a voice LP protag for Persona 2 specifically would be real tough. So much of Persona 2 is about Tatsuya's and Maya's character and how other's interact with them, what they see in them, what they want to see in them and even how they see themselves, so it could make some dissonance and kinda lessen some moments of done badly? Not saying you'd do badly, but oof I've seen some bad and unfunny LP main character characterization.
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Mar 6, 2017 08:03
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I saw an interview made when Persona 3 had just come out. The writers excused the "only one persona for other people" with the excuse that "Actually, that's just the mask they're always wearing around you. They'd use different personas if you weren't always looking over their shoulder." Then The Answer came out, and that idea had already been forgotten.
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Mar 6, 2017 08:47
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Item Getter posted:
I'd agree that in Innocent Sin moreso than Eternal Punishment if only because spell cards were such a pain in the rear end to find if you didn't know where to look. Eternal Punishment renovated movesets on certain persona much better and made fusion spells easier to figure out so that you didn't have to roulette persona around to get a spell you wanted.
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Mar 6, 2017 13:37
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Persona 1 is my guilty pleasure and I can forgive pretty much all of its faults because it was my very first title in the world of these types of games. I was really disheartened with the direction they took the music in the PSP version -- it's not bad but I'm not really sure it fits the motif of the game as well as the original music did. There's something even just a little off about the Satomi Tadashi theme they used that I don't quite like as much as the original.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:50
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Oh hey, it's the game I keep meaning to start an LP of and never getting around to it. Thanks, PeaceDiner! Various thoughts on the game: -Wasn't Satomi Tadashi the original director of 1 and 2? If you put any stock in rumors (which Persona is all about doing) some sort of never-fully-explained internal politics at Atlus was responsible for Tadashi being replaced with Katsura Hoshino for 3. I don't know if that's true but it would explain the gradual move away from Tadashi's contributions to the canon (we'll see these later in the LP) and possibly the cancellation of the Eternal Punishment PSP localization. -Only show the NPC dialogue that you feel like showing. There's a million lines of it and I don't want you to burn out? -Echoing what others have said about the music, but Meguro actually directed the remake personally, so what can you do. -I believe there is a PC version of this game (probably Windows95) and that version in particular actually changes the experience formula so everyone gets at least a little. Keeping that one change would have made the remake so much more tolerable, IMO. I do like this game, but I have a pretty high tolerance for grind, and frankly grinding is much more fun in 2 with its improved battle system. -I missed if you mentioned that the main character has the Emperor Arcana, not Fool as you might expect from later titles.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:32
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Captain Walker posted:Oh hey, it's the game I keep meaning to start an LP of and never getting around to it. Thanks, PeaceDiner! Various thoughts on the game: I don't think the new music is godawful; but it was a case of trying to match what people liked with 3 and 4 and sorta missing the mark. They're not all dreadful though. Remixes for certain dungeons are found in the game's SQQ which some don't have the patience to do (I don't). Those remixes are nice to the ears. The remixes for Persona 2 are clear winners to my ears though. I know nothing of the rumors regarding Tadashi being politicked out though. Last I heard the EP PSP localization was cancelled due to low sales in Japan and Atlus not wanting to take the risk. ...and please don't bring that up again. Eternal Punishment is favorite game of all time and having to remember that the PSP port never got to come overseas makes me weep and anger at the same time. 
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Mar 6, 2017 17:34
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Captain Walker posted:Oh hey, it's the game I keep meaning to start an LP of and never getting around to it. Thanks, PeaceDiner! Various thoughts on the game: Satomi left during the production of Digital Devil Saga right? I think that's the last game he was credited in. I'd be really curious to find out which tracks in the original soundtrack are Meguro's. As far as the new music it certainly isn't awful but it's lacking the original's variety of tracks and some of the redone tracks remove what was interesting about the original. The base game gives everyone at least a little experience but the base amount they get is very low. The bigger "grind" problem in this game is that the encounter rate is too high. Yeah we should mention that and that Fool is a "secret" arcana in P1 and 2 which can only be created by fusion accidents if I recall. And similarly World is just an ordinary arcana instead of being "special".
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Mar 7, 2017 03:20
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Item Getter posted:
I thought you'd wait until you got to the velvet room to go in depth with fusions. But in P1, Fools are personae created by sheer accident in fusion. There are three total and the fool you'd make in question would be an accident occurring in the fool's persona level range. Red arrow/circle fusions have higher chances for accidents. In the PSP version, there is a glitch you can exploit to reliably get them. World is indeed a regular arcana; though all men can use them at excellent/very good compatibility in this game. In persona 2, you have to get a demon interested then angry then interested then angry then interested in one conversation chain and then hope (1/64 or 1/32 chance) they ask you a question that requires you to answer along the lines of "a foolish man" or something like that to get a fool card. It takes savestates and an emulator to make that a colossal pain in the rear end. Alternatively, Salam after Mt.Iwato will cough them up for prizes in Eternal Punishment.
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Mar 7, 2017 04:19
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Yeah, I haven't gotten into arcana and fusion yet because at this point in the game there's really no reason to.
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Mar 7, 2017 04:41
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Update 5 - Uninvited guest After Mark and Nanjo left the party, Naoya and the rest of the gang continue on back to St. Hermelin High. Strange Atmosphere Elly's Theme We have an injured woman with us. Won't you open the gate? Ah, yes. "Roses are red, zombies are blue, I don't want brains, so you know I'm true." Now will you let us in?Boy on watch: Alright, come in!   The school's gates swing open, and Naoya and Yukino carry Setsuko inside. Daily Life Ms. Saeko's Theme  You're all safe!? Oh, I'm so glad... Oh! What happened to her!? We'll tell you later! We need to get her to the infirmary, quick! You're right! Naoya, come with me to the infirmary! Yukino, Eriko, I want you to head to the passageway to the gym. Yuka and Yuko are there plugging up the hole in the wall. Please help them out! Yes, let's go! Yukino and Elly leave the room, heading for the back of the first floor. Alright, then we should get going, too. So that's what SEBEC is up to, huh...? I can't believe them! Hey, Naoya? Sorry to ask, but... Could you go by the hole and ask Yukino and the others not to fill it up? Masao and Kei might have to come back in through there. Maki's mother isn't badly hurt. You can relax. School Days Monochrome (Dungeon - School Revisited) St. Hermelin High is basically the same as last, except for a change in music in the PS1 version and the fact that some previously locked doors are now open. Naoya needs to get to the passageway to talk to Elly and Yukino but, well, they can wait, can't they? He's got to check on the school and see how everybody's doing after the disaster, starting with the principal.    When I think about something happening to one of my students, I worry so much.  And we can kiss our careers goodbye! If this had just happened a little later, all the students would've gone home... Why is my luck so terrible!? Teacher: Me? I-I can't leave this spot... I have to sort out all the reports I get! You're lucky he was already on his way around school. You can't accuse somebody of opening and closing doors and then dump work on them like that! Amidst all the chaos, the rumor-loving students have more confidence than ever.   Rumor-loving girl: I bet the spirits are angry that SEBEC built their HQ on top of it! It must be the ghost of a Sengoku-era general or something!   Short-haired girl: I mean, not a single demon has gotten in here yet, right? Resting boy: Won't she shut up...? All that crap about guardians and demons... She's dreaming. However, there are other students who are still a bit preoccupied.   If I prove to Ayase how macho I am... She... she might l-like me... right?Male student: Something's up with Toro. You can see it in his eyes... Guess he's still hung up on Ayase. His type is scary when they can't let go.  Art club member: Guess it wasn't just the art club, through... the whole school was cursed. Hahaha, what a relief! ...Uh...  Student council president: Hey, if you want to be helpful, run along and solve this disaster, hmm? Student council member: The other members and I were organizing a safety committee while HE sat back... We never should have elected that jerk!  Female student: It should've just affected SEBEC, but nooo... We had to get dragged in too. Ugh, honestly! What a pain! Male student: I know there are demons outside, but I'm getting really hungry... Maybe I could duck out for a bite using that secret shortcut... Nah, too scary. Alright, I guess that's enough playing around. Naoya heads back down to the first floor passageway. Strange Atmosphere The Cave Behind the Gym And it turns out neither of them are even here.   She said she was going to look for something to block up the hole... Hey, if we block this thing up, is that really gonna make us safe? Huh? We're not blocking it up anymore? Uhh... Is that okay...? I tried to stop her, but of course she doesn't listen. Talk about trouble... Is there really a passage that leads outside of town?Alright, then I guess some more exploring wouldn't hurt.  All of the club rooms now have items sitting around in them for the taking, and it's a good chance to show off the rooms I didn't get to in the second update.  The boxing club's room. Perhaps Mark was the one to do up the wall? He does dance pretty crazy, though...  The archery club's room. One of the signs reads "Inside practice is prohibited," but I guess they went ahead and crossed that rule out.   You went outside, right? Is that cueball still running the shop?"That cueball" refers to his father, who runs the Satomi Tadashi pharmacy.  What's the matter, you scared? Go see for yourself, fraidy cat! Wh-What the hell... I ain't s-scared of those demons! You're scarier than they are, you muscley freak! What did you call me, fraidy cat!? Fraidy cat, fraidy cat, fraidy cat! Argh! Stupid muscley freak! Muscley freak, mussel fr--drat, that's hard to say. The last room to check is the ballet club's room. Unfortunately, we can't get any tutus as armor. Now, with all that done and with Elly and Yukino still not back, there's not much else to do except venture outside again ourselves.   Gonna go trash SEBEC, huh? It's like, impossible. Don't do it! The sound of the door's latch echoes throughout the yard, and the door opens up to reveal an unexpected guest.  Maki Maki's Theme - Bright       C'mon, of course it is. Everyone knows good ol' Maki! What's wrong, Yuka? Woah... Like, something's seriously weird with her, Naoya! There's no way Maki would be that cheerful! Hey, when did that hole show up? Ohhh, I get it... You made it, didn't you, Naoya?Why does Naoya keep getting blamed for so much deviant behavior? First the door opening and closing that Reiji was doing and now this. Is he actually some kinda bad boy? See!? It's totally not like her! I mean, wasn't she in the hospital!? Yuka! I'm going to get teed off if you keep saying that. Do you WANT me to be hospitalized...? How can you tell? I bet she's, like, a demon or something! Oh, um... I'm sorry... But she has Maki's favorite compact... C'mon, Yuka, quit picking on her! Although... Is something different about you today, Yuko...? Naoya! What the... Why is Maki here!? Oh, come on! Don't you start talking nonsense too, Nanjo! What's wrong, anyway? Why are you so bent out of shape?  But if you must know... demons captured that moron Masao at the police station. He mentioned getting weapons, so I went with him, and then... Normally, I'd leave him. Unfortunately, he has the security card... I'll need your help to rescue him. Demons got Masao!? We need to save him, Naoya! We were able to procure some guns... Here you are. It seems it can be quite draining to invoke one's Persona. Masao became exhausted after repeated use. That's how they caught him. But forewarned is forearmed. Don't forget to equip these. With guns in our hands, we can now fully equip our current three party members.  Naoya uses one-handed swords and automatics.  Maki uses bows and handguns - a bit weaker, but her arrows always hit twice.  Nanjo uses two-handed swords and rifles, though currently he's stuck with a mop for a weapon.  Maki is also the character that really drives home how important character placement is during battle. If you don't move her to the back then she'll only be able to hit one or two rows instead of the entire battlefield.   Naoya's interest is piqued, but he doesn't ask any further questions.  U-Umm... Be careful... The party steps into the void behind St. Heremelin's gym.  ...This is hardly the time for jokes. Excuse you! I wasn't kidding. It's... a public service that maintains societal order. In this case, it refers specifically to the service's headquarters. Oh... I think I kinda remember now?  That happened while you were hospitalized. It's been complete for roughly six months... You couldn't have known. Hahaha, but I was never in the hospital! You're the kidder here, not me. In her condition, she'll only be a hindrance. What're you guys whispering about? Let's hurry! Masao might be in trouble! Confrontation   Looks like we got one already... Well, bring it on! A Lone Prayer Awakening Legend (Battle - Awakening) Maki, don't do anything foolish!     Maki awakens to her Persona, Maso, a Chinese goddess that protects fishermen and sailors from the treacherous sea. Maki Maki's Theme - Bright Persona... the soul's power... It's another me, huh? It's Latin for "mask." It's the root of the word, "personality." So there are angels and demons within people's souls? Is that it? That's a poetic way of putting it, yes. As one fights fire with fire, it seems we'll fight demons with demons. I don't know the reasons for it, but it should certainly prove useful. Let's root out the source of these demons and get our town back! Mm... We'll need to rescue the idiot for that. Come, Naoya. Sounds good to me! Next time: Operation Save Mark. PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 16:43
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If only Mark had danced as crazy as he could, he wouldn't have gotten caught.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:58
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 (lifted directly from the megami tensei wikia because I have no shame.) Maki's initial persona, Maso, a priestess who protected Chinese fishermen. Doesn't come close to Ogun the war god in terms of awesome origins; but Maso is a drat dapper persona. Ice immunity at a time you're likely to start seeing that magic become common and the holy immunity is nice albeit un-needed for this point. The dark magic weakness isn't even something to fear yet as(the one to fire is negligible-ish). we really won't start seeing Mudo and Eiha until a bit later, so she's great to have around. Multi-Bow is her best ability as it can hit multiple times in a row, effectively eliminating a need for her bow. SP is nice and cheap for some easy healing. With this skillset and the bows, the game's subtly telling you "Back row jackass!" with Maki; so the handguns feel like a waste on her really. She'll hit hard as hell with them after an upgrade or two; but the only time you're gonna see her shoot anything is probably in one or two boss battles where the backrow isn't safe for her (almost never). Usually, when jumped, most players just spend the turn defending and reclaiming their proper formations. In the PSX version, Multi-bow was ungodly devastating to the point where Maki could experience hog so drat much early. Priestess my rear end; she was pure 
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Mar 9, 2017 00:44
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Taking into account Persona selection and stat spread, who would the current party best be compared to in modern Person games? I'm guessing that Maki's the Mitsuru (well-rounded casting-based stat spread) and Nanjo's something of an... Makoto (P5 character, Jack of all trades)?
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Mar 9, 2017 01:01
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Junpei posted:Taking into account Persona selection and stat spread, who would the current party best be compared to in modern Person games? Due to the Persona-switching mechanics, I guess that not every character is a 1:1 in terms of archetype, and many times a person's weakness can be fixed up a bit by the right Persona. Anyway, I guess I'll still talk a bit about them. I'm probably not the best at it, other people can discuss battle tactics if they wish to! Tactless Ogre's already talked a bit about Maki, who is indeed the resident magic user/healer like Mitsuru or Yukiko. Nanjo's main draw is his high Vitality stat, so he's a bit of a damage sponge, and he can hit pretty hard with his sword. Aizen Myouou is good for its early game buffs (raising hit rate or magic), though does suffer from a weakness to physical attacks. I guess if I had to compare him to anybody, it'd probably be Akihiko. Mark is our strong but at times inaccurate powerhouse, who hits hard but doesn't get many critical hits. He can't do much in the way of ranged combat due to his weapons. A Kanji, I guess. Yukino's another good spellcaster, with weak but accurate weapons that get a fair number of crit hits. Vesta also is fairly versatile, with nuclear, fire, and electric attacks, plus an early-game healing spell. Naoto, maybe? Elly also fits in the magic user/healer archetype, though her Persona focuses on light magic instead of Maki's ice attacks. Her sword attack focuses more on accuracy than pure power, while her gun attack is both accurate and powerful (plus gets a lot of crit hits). Another Mitsuru, perhaps? (though I am biased since they both use rapiers)
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Mar 9, 2017 02:27
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| # ? May 2, 2024 10:07 |
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So what are you building Naoya to be?
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Mar 9, 2017 02:57
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