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Dr. Fetus posted:
I hope Edward gets mauled by rabbits. How dare he disrespect Etrian Odyssey!? It's a testament on how much the early game of 7th Dragon hates you that the only way to have enough money for an axe is to rob an empty house. If you want both an axe and a bow you probably need to recruit new people, strip them and sell their stuff for next to nothing. Or you could try to farm some money with damage dealers on weapons they can't really use. I'm sure that would be fun...
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Feb 27, 2017 22:25
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Yeah this definitely feels like proto etrian odyssey with the stingy early game and the fact that everything can kick your rear end pretty handily.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:43
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theshim posted:Let me guess, you also have to go back to the questgiver first and then go back to the Quest Office to turn it in? Sadly, yes. Quests do not auto complete even if the client was there to witness its conclusion. They all have to be turned in at a Quest Office. That is not even the worst part of the quest system.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:11
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Do quests give anything other than their 'reward'? Rewards are usually not worth the effort you have to put into it. Also, Edward and Stella are slowly becoming my favourite characters.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:23
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Huh. So there isn't a single hub town? That's a choice.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:50
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I tried playing the game blind, but the quest system made it really hard to do so. Talking to every single person in town gets old fast, not to mention the other problems we haven't seen yet. Gave up and broke out the quest guide. Also, Confuse doesn't wear off immediately after battle too. 
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Feb 28, 2017 02:03
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Blademaster_Aio posted:Do quests give anything other than their 'reward'? Rewards are usually not worth the effort you have to put into it. A couple of quests have additional rewards outside listed rewards. That's as much light as I am willing to cast on it.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:27
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Belated yay for Edward being picked! I'm looking forward to seeing him and the rest of the guild get murdered by squirrels. On a side note, that seems like a really tiny amount of starting cash. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get at least 300 en to start in the EO games?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:50
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Dark Flame Master posted:On a side note, that seems like a really tiny amount of starting cash. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get at least 300 en to start in the EO games? EO gives you 1000en but the starting stuff is more expensive than in later titles. Every weapon costs over 100en, a Targe 110en, helmet and gloves 70en and shoes 80en. So you still don't have much wiggle room but at least you have more cash than a single weapon's worth. In EO2 you start with 500en but prices all around are lower. Not quite half though so money is even more tight than before. 500en is also the starting amount in EO3 with prices about the same level as EO2. Most things are a bit cheaper only the starting shield seems to be more expensive. So compared to the DS EO titles you have way less money even if you don't buy a weapon. Starting armor prices are low but not low enough for you to be able to afford much.
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Feb 28, 2017 08:47
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Update 3: Questing And now we're on the world map. I don't find the music particularly exciting, but I suppose it's serviceable.  Anyways, the first thing we need to go to complete the Build a Guild quest is to go here.   Nothing much we can do with this yet.  These gray pillars serve as save points. Occasionally you'll find them in dungeons.   Fade to black.   The lady leaves. I walk around on the overworld for a bit to get into a battle.  And here's a new enemy.  Nutshell Level: 2 LIFE: 21 ATK: 28 DEF: 10 INT: 7 SPD: 8 Attack Type: Blunt Size: Small Exp: 34 Gold: 2 Item Drops: -Normal: Nut - 50% Drop Rate. --Found inside a Nutshell. Recovers a little life. -Rare: N/A Damage Multipliers: Slash: 100% Blunt: 100% Thrust: 100% Fire: 100% Ice: 100% Lightning: 100% Skills: Nut Ball: Deals ranged 130% ATK-based Blunt damage to one party member. Has a speed modifier of 90%. Nutshells are very dangerous enemies early on. Nut Ball can straight up one shot the squishier classes from full health if they don't have enough armor. You typically want to focus them down first if they're in a group. Around Kazan, they're the most dangerous enemies to run into.   Something to keep in mind are that party members positioned at the left tend to draw more aggro than a party member positioned at the right.    You really shouldn't have your Healer and Mage use a regular attack unless you're that desperate to save mana/are out of mana.    Ugh, didn't even get the item drop. While tankier classes can take a hit from the Nutshells easily, squishier classes should be at full health and have a decent amount of defense to be able to survive any incoming Nut Balls.  In the earlygame, it's good to heal up often. Though using Paro Fruits at this point may be overkill. In all honesty, resting at Kazan's inn is more economic for doing that. Of course if you have a Healer, that's nothing to worry about. And honestly at this point, what else are they gonna be spending their mana on? Just spend it, you have very little to lose.  And here's the last new enemy you can encounter around Kazan.  Bluegrass Nymph Level: 2 LIFE: 22 ATK: 23 DEF: 8 INT: 6 SPD: 12 Attack Type: Blunt Size: Small Exp: 32 Gold: 2 Item Drops: -Normal: Butterfly Wing - 30% Drop Rate. --Wing of a Bluegrass Nymph. -Rare: N/A Damage Multipliers: Slash: 100% Blunt: 100% Thrust: 100% Fire: 150% Ice: 100% Lightning: 100% Skills: Paralysis Scale: 30% chance of inflicting Paralysis on one party member. Has a speed modifier of 85%. Bluegrass Nymphs aren't as dangerous as Nutshells, but you still shouldn't underestimate them. Paralysis Scale is fairly annoying to be hit by, since it can potentially disable a party member. And they do hit fairly hard on their own, though not as hard as Nutshells.   Though since the infliction rate is fairly low, Paralysis Scale doesn't land all that often. Of course even if an ailment skill has an infliction rate of 100% or above, there's a very small chance it won't land due to how 7th Dragon's RNG works.  One Mage spell can pretty much dispatch them instantly, if you have one of those. They're not too bad to deal with for the most part. Though if there aren't any Nutshells in the battle, you want to focus them down first.  Ooh, got lucky with one of the drops there. Light Meat increases a Fighter's SPD by 5 if they eat it. Sadly, Stella lacks the ability to eat meat at the moment since she needs to learn a specific skill first to do so. And the stat buff will be dispelled once she sleeps at an inn. The only purpose it can serve right now is to be sold for cash, and quite a decent amount at this point (20 G.) If you don't have a Fighter in the party, then meat is completely useless and should either be discarded or sold. It can't be used for anything else.  The other person we need to recruit in Rita's guild is in this cave.  All dungeons in this game don't come with a map. You'll either have to find one (it's usually somewhere in the dungeon itself) or buy one from an NPC.  The person we're looking for is at the top of this cave.  Fade to black.   When you complete the objective of your quest, you need to head back to the client. No, this does not mean that you can head to the quest office to turn it in. That will just end up canceling the quest and you'll have to start all over. So don't do that.  Off to the right, there's a treasure chest with a Paro Fruit in it. Nothing else is in this cave, and you really do not want to be spending a lot of time in here. There are random encounters in here, but the encounter rate is really low. There's a good reason for that, namely that the encounters in here will utterly maul us.   Just farming for some Nuts for that quest. Your best bet is to wander around on the forests, as those contain more “dangerous” encounter formations. Also, you'll gain experience quicker that way. In fact, I recommend getting up to at least level 2 before heading to Miross.   Unfortunately...   The RNG in 7th Dragon is extremely stingy. Those drop rates I listed along the item drops? Yeah, it doesn't work out that way in practice. Unless said drop rate is 100%, you're going to get the item drop much less often than the listed rate. Take it from someone who has done a lot of item farming to finish up this game's quests. (Also from what I could tell, the RNG is dependent upon the frame the battle finishes on, which you don't have much control over in a normal playthrough.)    Aaaand, Stella ended up going down before I even found a 2nd nut. Which granted us the first death in the LP.  One trip to the clinic later...  There's something wrong in this picture. Can you spot it?     When a front liner dies, the back row gets moved up to the front. I forgot to move them all back (Not that it would have saved Edward since Nut Ball is a ranged attack) resulting in Nila going down.  Oh, and Rabis can randomly run away from battle.   After that series of disasters, I head back to town to sell off some of my drops.  Occasionally, a monster's drop will unlock some equipment, which nets you this message.  Of course it doesn't necessarily unlock the equipment, just lets you know that selling some more drops will unlock it. If you press A over one of those mystery pieces of equipment, you'll be told what else you need to sell to fully unlock it. 7th Dragon doesn't really place much of an emphasis on unlocking equipment, most of the time, the shops in a new town will already have some new ones in stock.  After fighting this group of monsters, I...  Don't even get the drop I want. Oh well, at least everyone got level ups.  Axecraft is at level 3, which applies an 114% multiplier to all axe's weapon powers. But more importantly, it unlocked Status Down and Defense Down. I'll be picking up the latter later.  I take Venom for Edward. It has a speed modifier of 80%, and at level 1, it has a 25% chance to inflict Poison, and the Poison itself has a power of 50%. Which means that it deals 13 Poison damage at the end of each turn. Not particularly impressive, but you pretty much have to go all in on the Healer's Poison related skills for those to do much.  I pick up Freeze for Nila, and will be investing in this heavily as soon as possible. It is going to be her best damage option for plenty of enemies.  Nobility now provides a 102% speed multiplier to the Dia's holy songs. Honestly, I'm really not sure why I leveled it up at this point in the game. Spending that point in Heated Words would have been a more productive use of a skill point. Anyways, after several failed attempts to find more Nuts, I just decide to head back to Kazan to turn in the one quest that I did get finished.    Sometimes quests give out additional rewards, though not all of them do so. Anyways, what we just got is a party skill. These can't be learned by investing skill points into something. Instead, certain NPCs will give them to you if you fulfill a specific task. This one is fairly basic and not all that interesting.   Rita and her guild mates leave.    But Emily almost goes the wrong way.  When that notice pops up, you're allowed to turn in the quest.     Oh, this Knight here provides hints for the quests you're currently on if you're stuck. Won't be showing those off since I'm showing you how to do them myself    By completing that quest, we get some Paro Medicine.  Which is complete and utter overkill at this point in the game. No one is going to have close to 100 life for a good long while. You can sell it if you want, and that might be a good move since you'll get a whopping 200 G out of it.  I got yet another level up before even getting another Nut. Welcome to 7th Dragon.  This is a very important skill for Stella to pick up. It has a speed modifier of 90%, and at level 1 Defense down deals 110% damage and applies a debuff which applies a 90% multiplier to the target's DEF stat for 10 turns. It's pretty potent and definitely one of the main reasons I went with the axe build.  Venom now has a 28% chance to inflict Poison, and the skill has a Poison power of 100%, meaning that it deals 23 Poison damage.  Nila will be picking up her last element.  And Heated Words now applies an 111% multiplier to the party's ATK stats.  I give up on the Nut hunting, and decide to head to Miross. See that bridge? Once you go over it, you'll be getting into tougher encounters. But since I'm level 3, I'm sure I can handle them.   I'm just going to pretend that didn't happen and that I didn't have to waste time going back to the clinic again.    We can't enter this place right now.     Fortunately, Miross was close by, so I just decided to head straight there instead of going back to Kazan.   Welcome to Miross. There aren't any quests available here yet, so don't worry about that too much. I revive Stella at the revival clinic. Let's take a look around the city.        Inn prices vary from town to town, but like most typical RPGs, the price increases the farther the town is into the game.  Hey! Where did you go, Emily?! Can someone find her? You're in big trouble... -- Rita     First thing you should do when you get to a new town is to examine all the containers you can reach.      The screen flashes white after each text box.  The fortune-teller's fortunes are meaningless. They're just flavor text.  Let's check out the shops in this town.           Miross has a lot of new and good equipment in stock. Unfortunately, we can't afford any of it. Let's check out the item shop.   Exporters are handy items. When used in a dungeon, they'll take you back to the entrance. We don't need one for the moment.         Good advice to keep in mind. Especially since mana is not that tight of a resource in this game.        Always search the containers.        I'm sure some of you can probably relate to what he's actually saying.    We don't need this right now. That's all for the town portion. Let's enter the castle.     This is where you need to go to deliver the package.             And that's all we can do in Miross for now. Let's head back to Kazan.  And realize I forgot to change the rows back, leading to Edward going down again.  Oh, FINALLY I get a 2nd Nut! Now I just need one more.  I saw that I was close to a level up, and got into another battle to level up the party.  Axecraft now provides an 116% multiplier to axes.  Venom now has a 31% infliction rate, and a Poison power of 150%. It deals 33 Poison damage now.  And Nila picks up her last elemental spell.  Heated Words now provides an 112% multiplier to the party's ATK stats.  It took me so long to find a 3rd nut, that everyone reached level 5. Also I was so happy at finally getting that quest done, that I forgot to spend my skill points. Good going, Fetus.  And that's all the quests completed! Time to talk to our clients.    Now we're done with that quest. And yes, he did just grant us the ability to run. The party's movement speed is rather slow, so this is a nice reward. No, I have no idea why this was locked behind a quest of all things.  Money troubles? What's that?  Fade to black.    A fairly nice reward. Provides a decent amount of mana and is a boost to POW.  I give this to Nila.  The actual reward is lousy, but getting a free Traveler's Charm makes up for it. To progress the game, just head to the front entrance of the town.     Araxxor fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:47
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So the drop rate is just...lower than the percentage chance that is in the game's text? Is there some shenanigans like your stats influencing drop rates or something? Still, there's something great about the party learning the ropes of adventuring (reaching level 5) trying to find something as mundane as a handful of nuts.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:18
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Traveler's Charms are awesome early game. They give a precious mana bonus and they can be bought for 50g apiece. I basically spent most of my gold at that point stacking the charms on the whole party. Also, honest-to-god this is true, I ran into one of the Dragons while walking around Rorakka Cavern looking for the guildie. 
blizzardvizard fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 02:19
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You have the first revive image and the first death image backwards, Fetus. Also this game sure seems stingy on the items front. I thought that was for old-style RPGs, not something relatively new like this.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:38
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Wow, you can't even eat meat without a skill? This is some really Old School design.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:00
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Naturally, everyone is vegetarian by default.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:34
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I'm just cracking up at how apparently you need a skill to eat meat. It's not like you're cooking it or anything, just... eat it. And this is the merciful patch of the game? Yikes.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:42
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I can't get past needing a skill to eat meat. I'm not sure that even qualifies as old-school, it's just so bizarre.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:45
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And of course only the Fighter can ever eat meat. Given this sort of game there's probably INT meat in there somewhere just to spite the player. Also I kinda like the fortune teller bit. Even in 7th Dragon, FOE!
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Mar 2, 2017 04:02
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Rawkking posted:So the drop rate is just...lower than the percentage chance that is in the game's text? Is there some shenanigans like your stats influencing drop rates or something? I'm not quite sure yet. All I just know is, if the emulator you're using has a frameskip function, don't use it during battle. It screws up the RNG and tends to cause enemies to not drop items. Though I'm going to turn on a 100% drop rate cheat code at certain points in the game because I really do not want to deal with low drop rates. I already had enough of that playing through the game without the humane patch. blizzardvizard posted:Traveler's Charms are awesome early game. They give a precious mana bonus and they can be bought for 50g apiece. I basically spent most of my gold at that point stacking the charms on the whole party. I heard about a weird bug like that before. How exactly did that happen? Did you get into a battle with one or did it somehow join in while you were fighting regular enemies? Blaze Dragon posted:You have the first revive image and the first death image backwards, Fetus. I thought I fixed that while making the update. It's actually fixed now. Thanks. Logicblade posted:I'm just cracking up at how apparently you need a skill to eat meat. It's not like you're cooking it or anything, just... eat it. And this is the merciful patch of the game? Yikes. The USA patch only really changes 2 things. It halves the encounter rate, and affects a big gameplay mechanic we're going to see shortly. Anything outside of that is untouched. 7th Dragon has a good core experience, but the edges are really really rough.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:51
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Dr. Fetus posted:I heard about a weird bug like that before. How exactly did that happen? Did you get into a battle with one or did it somehow join in while you were fighting regular enemies? I ran into one. No overworld sprite, just in a regular random encounter. It was a Triceratops, incidentally. I did have frameskip turned on at the time, though, so maybe it had to do with that RNG screwage thing you mentioned.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:58
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Dr. Fetus posted:
Surprisingly, this is harder than it sounds. The "I cut, you choose" two-person version doesn't quite work here - the guaranteed soundest solution needs 5 cuts. You can probably approximate it by slowly sweeping a knife over the cake and letting whoever buzzes in first have the portion that gets cut off, then playing "I cut, you choose" with the remainder of the cake.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:23
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blizzardvizard posted:I ran into one. No overworld sprite, just in a regular random encounter. It was a Triceratops, incidentally. I did have frameskip turned on at the time, though, so maybe it had to do with that RNG screwage thing you mentioned.  Yeah, you aren't supposed to be running into them this early, let alone that one.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:26
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I wasn't using frameskip and I ran into the same thing, though it was after the timeskip, basically right after I killed the "boss" Triceratops and healed/saved I ran into one as a regular encounter. Maybe just a general emulation bug? Who knows...
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Mar 2, 2017 05:36
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Dr. Fetus posted:
I gatheres that when it dealt twice my party's LF with its AoE hit
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Mar 2, 2017 05:43
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Dr. Fetus posted:Sometimes quests give out additional rewards, though all of them do so. Unfotunately, there is a "not" missing. It's after you complete the quest of getting new members for the guild in Kazan but before handing it in at the quest office. Your drop rate struggles remind me how everyone said you would be underleveled in EOU classic because Gladsheim is missing. Jokes on them - I got overleveled trying to solve the fetch quests from the bar because drop rates screwed me over!  And as much of a pain the fetch quests are in 7th Dragon I found they often serve a similar purpose. Most dungeons in the early- and mid-game are rather short and even with the dragons they don't give out that much XP. So crunching one or two levels while trying to get some drat drops often keeps you from being underleveled. Not a piece of game design I necessarily love, though. But at least it's not as deadly later on as getting nuts is at the beginning of the game. With the meat I always assumed that is was raw monster meat and that you needed an iron stomach to not get sick from it. Shortly we will see what even flowers can do to you in this game so munching on monster corpses doesn't seem that healthy by default.
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Mar 2, 2017 09:41
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 I'm guessing I must just be lucky - I found enough Nuts to finish the quest and have a decent amount to heal with on the off chance I run out of mana on my healer (this screenshot was taken by the time my party was level 8, but my point still stands that I have a ton of these things and I've been selling my earlier ones 'cause I didn't know they healed). Also I think you missed an item in the castle past the "If you've come from the left, go to the right" guy; that, or my memory is screwing with me again.
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Mar 2, 2017 10:12
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werbear posted:Unfotunately, there is a "not" missing. It's after you complete the quest of getting new members for the guild in Kazan but before handing it in at the quest office. Ah, thanks. Fixed that. quote:With the meat I always assumed that is was raw monster meat and that you needed an iron stomach to not get sick from it. I mean, that's a plausible explanation, but you have to consider:  (I have no idea why I suddenly had the urge to make that terrible drawing.)
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Mar 2, 2017 10:55
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Mimingless posted:I wasn't using frameskip and I ran into the same thing, though it was after the timeskip, basically right after I killed the "boss" Triceratops and healed/saved I ran into one as a regular encounter. I ran into one in that cave too. (Well, two, actually. Got wrecked the first time, ran the second.) I don't use frameskip stuff when playing, so likely it's an emulator bug or it was always a chance. Interestingly enough, I tried to run into one there again before a certain plot point, but after grinding for a while (thinking I'd be able to take it on, like an idiot) and couldn't for the life of me so it might just be a very, very, very low chance encounter.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:45
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So how many damage tiles would you have run into by now without the humane patch? Or is this before the True Horror would have started?
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Mar 2, 2017 18:03
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Zanzibar Ham posted:So how many damage tiles would you have run into by now without the humane patch? Or is this before the True Horror would have started? None. The humane patch does not reduce the amount of damage tiles, just their damage by 60%. It is... pretty obvious when they start being around.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:21
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Dr. Fetus posted:Ah, thanks. Fixed that. 
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Mar 2, 2017 18:36
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Oh, it's just that the talk of damage tiles reminded me of how the first cave in Rune Factory has you forced to travel across poison tiles at some point, so I was surprised we didn't run into any yet. By the way, years ago I bought the original Etrian Odyssey and didn't really like it... I mean it was sorta okay if a bit grindy for the first floor, but the second floor was way too tough for its own good, even after doing all the conceivable floor 1 quests as far as I know. Do late games fix that? Or if not, is there a similar type game that does?
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Mar 2, 2017 18:40
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Oh, it's just that the talk of damage tiles reminded me of how the first cave in Rune Factory has you forced to travel across poison tiles at some point, so I was surprised we didn't run into any yet.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:46
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theshim posted:The early game is always the nastiest in Etrian Odyssey, you have the fewest options and the lowest durability at that point, and EO1 is kinda dated and has its own issues. I would strongly recommend EO4 if you want to get into the series, it's got the smoothest curve, least bullshit, best class balance, and is generally a lot of fun! Don't have a 3DS unfortunately  I'm considering once it's time to get a new PC to just get an average relatively cheap PC for light-weight indie games (what I mostly play anyway) and then a Nintendo Switch as well so I can come back to the console scene. If I do that I might be able to play one of the more stream-lined EOs.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:55
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If you don't have a 3DS, the easiest EO title to get in is EO3. Though that game has its own fair share of issues. At this point, I really don't recommend checking out EO1 or 2 unless you really want to see how far the games came. Or you have an extremely high tolerance for some questionable game mechanics. Part of EO1's grindy feeling can probably be blamed on the fact that the game severely decreases and increases the amount of damage you deal and take if you're at a lower level than the devs expected you to be at the point you're at. On top of your party already having lower stats than the enemies. Which leads to feeling like you're fighting an uphill battle constantly. Naturally, the game does not tell you about this, or what levels you're expected to be at.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:02
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theshim posted:Yessssssssssssssssssss. Please make more of these Seconding this, the picture nearly made me spit out my drink.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:42
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Mimingless posted:I wasn't using frameskip and I ran into the same thing, though it was after the timeskip, basically right after I killed the "boss" Triceratops and healed/saved I ran into one as a regular encounter. I looked on the Japanese wikis, and it is an occurrence on the cartridge. They're not sure if it's a bug or not. More likely, someone probably made a typo in the encounter tables considering this doesn't happen anywhere else in the game. Killing it won't reduce the dragon counter any, so no need to worry about it glitching that out. Efe posted:
I checked, and there was nothing of the sort, other than the water basin. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 19:08
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Dr. Fetus posted:I checked, and there was nothing of the sort, other than the water basin.  Found it in a new save, I probably wasn't clear when I said "past the 'left, go right' guy", I meant the hallway past him, to the left of the 'Diligent Man'. Also, I need to ask for my sanity - does Blind work in this game? Because of the 4 times I've landed it so far, it's worn off literally immediately, and I'm starting to think I wasted 5 skill points on my rogue.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:47
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Efe posted:
Ah, okay. Won't be picking that up in the next update since I've already got it recorded, but probably the one after. Ailment recovery is dependent on two things, the target's level and the ailment itself. Certain ailments wear off faster than others, and the higher the target's level, the longer it lasts. So early on they won't last for long, but that changes as you go through the game. I have no idea about the specifics, though. I know it's not like in VFD where they straight up have a set duration.
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Mar 3, 2017 20:52
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Dr. Fetus posted:Ah, thanks. Fixed that. This is so good
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Mar 4, 2017 05:09
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