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someone awful. posted:I'm starting to wonder if the only winning move is not to play. The author did jokingly say that just not playing, and never getting sent to the island, could be considered winning. But it is not the only way to win.
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Mar 29, 2017 12:12
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Ok, I've recorded a new session and did make some progress, but not in the loving town hall. We all know what we need to get there, but have no idea how. So, how about some heavy artillery. PR.HALL.txt code:
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Apr 9, 2017 06:54
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The immediate goal is for CT% to be 99 or higher and for T5% to be 0 - otherwise we're kicked out with the NOT AN IMPRESSIVE PERFORMANCE one line up. Looking at where T5% is assigned, T5% is the disaster count. The number of acceptable deaths is zero. Likewise, Saboteurs must not be permitted to mess with the water lines. CT% appears to increase at a steady rate and every time it hits a multiple of 10 it goes to the event routine. Some kind of timer? So a first cut at this is "last ten events with nobody dying or bombing anything." I'm not completely sure because it's doing some kind of memory I/O in the 2000 range, but I think the counter is only updated when you change a value, perhaps.
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Apr 9, 2017 08:29
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Looking at this, keeping security at 100% means no fights. If there's a fight there's a (security)% chance it'll be stopped. Keeping water or food at 100% means no riots. There's a (security/10)% chance of a riot starting IF a random number is higher than either the water or food values, and a (security/10)% chance of security stopping the riot. Those two and terrorism are the only things that can increase deaths, but: no deaths means no water lines are ever blown up. gschmidl fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 08:54
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ManxomeBromide posted:I'm not completely sure because it's doing some kind of memory I/O in the 2000 range, but I think the counter is only updated when you change a value, perhaps. This seems entirely plausible, in previous plays as things were being decreased it would stop every 10 for an event message. The trick is that it's not just to survive ten events, we have to survive at least ten events and then trigger the end-of-game. Actually triggering the end-of-game requires us to return from the routine at 2000, which seems to require the value at 16384 to be 185, and I'm not sure what controls that value.
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Apr 9, 2017 08:55
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Jabor posted:This seems entirely plausible, in previous plays as things were being decreased it would stop every 10 for an event message. The trick is that it's not just to survive ten events, we have to survive at least ten events and then trigger the end-of-game. I think you can just quit it at that point.
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Apr 9, 2017 08:58
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Jabor posted:This seems entirely plausible, in previous plays as things were being decreased it would stop every 10 for an event message. The trick is that it's not just to survive ten events, we have to survive at least ten events and then trigger the end-of-game. Given what "should" be happening there, I think it might be scanning the keyboard. This might be as simple as picking 9 off the menu. As further evidence of this, 185 is 57 (the ASCII code for '9') + 128 (maybe the top bit = key pressed? It's looping waiting for the value to be at least 128 there for a bit...) ManxomeBromide fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 09:00
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ManxomeBromide posted:Given what "should" be happening there, I think it might be scanning the keyboard. This might be as simple as picking 9 off the menu. As further evidence of this, 185 is 57 (the ASCII code for '9') + 128 (maybe the top bit = key pressed? It's looping waiting for the value to be at least 128 there for a bit...) According to Apple II docs, PEEK(-16384) gives you the ASCII value of the pressed key + 128, so 9 should indeed do it.
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Apr 9, 2017 09:11
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So CT% is ostensibly the counter for the number of times you change a value ... except there's a bug/intentional feature where it gets modified regardless of the key pressed (lines 2013-2014 update it and fire off random events every 10 times, but the check for 'D'/'I' happens in 2015). All you should have to do is select a value to change, hit a key that doesn't change it, and repeat x100. Kangra fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 10:15
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Looking at line 2000, it also looks like events fire continuously while waiting for you to choose a category to modify, but looking at line 2010, it looks like once you've chosen one it no longer fires events until selections are made. So idling risks disruption for no credit.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:16
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So happy this LP didn't die! I'm also impressed with how few lines of code they needed to make that whole little sim. Neat.
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Apr 11, 2017 04:26
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The sweet smell of progress. Recording #+1. The rover.
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Apr 11, 2017 16:01
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Domus posted:So happy this LP didn't die! I'm also impressed with how few lines of code they needed to make that whole little sim. Neat. When you're using character graphics, game programs can get really short.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:10
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I think you might get better clues the higher your score is. Is there a reliable way you could farm your score up? Hell, having a higher score might affect other things too, if it can affect that.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:00
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I like the new format, even if you do sometimes sound like you're suffering from memory loss. Perhaps a side effect of the kidnapping.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:16
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So, for the town hall, it track number of inputs but not what those inputs are? So just bump things down a few points, then bump them back up. You get a middle manager job of pointlessly shuffling papers while following your inflexible mandate. Might also be the same thing with the church, you just stayed there long enough. Overall this paints a dim picture of this escape route, where it's training you to engage in pointless tedium.
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Apr 11, 2017 23:43
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Oh, interesting. There actually is an outside. I wonder how big it is?
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Apr 12, 2017 05:29
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Ok, since this has been quiet and is freezing, here's a spoiler on the "Run the island" puzzle because it's frankly ruddy stupid. It's actually one of the parts of Prisoner 2 that was back-ported into Prisoner 1.9.1, so the answer is in the Prisoner 2 Design Document which is available online. Hint: It's nothing to do with the 'running the island' game. Spoiler: You have to trigger the fake Syntax Error message, and when it appears, enter the command that would run a program called "the island". This might just be RUN THE ISLAND or something more complicated, it depends on the implementation.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:57
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Welp, that hit the "so stupid it hurts" button hard. It's a fair enough puzzle in a game that lets you know it plays that way, but so far things haven't gotten that meta in The Prisoner. It doesn't help that we're not in the mindset of the era when this was published, I suppose.
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Apr 19, 2017 23:15
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hyphz posted:Ok, since this has been quiet and is freezing, here's a spoiler on the "Run the island" puzzle because it's frankly ruddy stupid. It's actually one of the parts of Prisoner 2 that was back-ported into Prisoner 1.9.1, so the answer is in the Prisoner 2 Design Document which is available online. I've recorded the next bit, but I can't get around to cutting 40 minutes of footage to 10. We do get the money, though.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:55
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By hook or by crook. Recording #Trial. Freedom.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:52
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You forgot you were going to use your bank account number, next time, just use that, it's the only other uniquely-identifying information about you besides your resignation code. I doubt anything else would work.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:12
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Maybe you could turn the question back on the guard? I.E. "KNOW THYSELF"?
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Apr 20, 2017 18:14
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Ha. It makes sense that there are so many false escapes. Got to give you hope if they want to break it.
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Apr 21, 2017 04:33
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So, that line from the manual about there being multiple ways of escape? 
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Apr 23, 2017 07:11
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This game has beaten me, laughed at me and mocked me. I guess I have to pull the plug. Recording. The Plug.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:03
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Rrr... I never understood any sort of artist in the genre of "You actually like this kind of entertainment? Loser!" It's really weird to see someone so cynical of a format that barely even existed at the time. gently caress you too, developer. Added Space fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 17:27
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Congratulations, Six. Here's Andrew Plotkin's summary I mentioned I would be posting.
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Apr 23, 2017 17:28
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"SHOW ME THE ISLAND COMPUTER" also works but messes up the meaning. But yea, "the point of this game is to show you how much games suck" is a really disappointing ending. (Also, the logo of a person trapped inside an Apple logo becomes a good retroactive spoiler. Prisoner 2's cover showed a computer screen being broken from the side. Plus, it has the same "who is the master" thing as the original series did.) hyphz fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 17:51
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gschmidl posted:Here's Andrew Plotkin's summary I mentioned I would be posting. Worth highlighting: as initially designed, the final puzzle requires typing a key that isn't on your keyboard. The detailed instructions it's giving are instructing you how to use Applesoft BASIC's weird copy-paste mechanism it had instead of a screen editor to get those characters out of its printed template. I'm going to disagree as to the ending there—it's not mocking you for playing the game, only for being imprisoned by it if you were. You didn't have to be. A player intentionally exploring the games operations was, indeed, always in control... ETA: Come to think of it, the major troll here would be congratulating you on proving your individuality by exactly hewing to the pre-specified behavioural requirements of a long-absent designer. The text it gives continues to work even if you won by modifying the programs in place to unlock options you shouldn't have. ManxomeBromide fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 19:50
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get why typing [wt] would pull the plug. Unless it's just a completely arbitrary thing.
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Apr 23, 2017 21:41
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I think [=] is supposed to be an ASCII representation of an electrical outlet.
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Apr 23, 2017 22:28
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Domus posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get why typing [wt] would pull the plug. Unless it's just a completely arbitrary thing. One of the later clues is "INPUT THE PLUG". The trick is that the Apple 2 had no [] keys, so the only way to enter the [=] string the caretaker gives you is to use the edit commands - which is what the "manufacturer's note" is telling you to do. It's the author's way of showing you're breaking the fourth wall, and in fact it's exactly the same as the method used to input [WT] in the carnival. And I'm not sure I agree that it's not mocking the player - the main reason you want to find the ending, after all, is to experience the creative work that's gone into it. Having that creative work just say that you shouldn't have tried to find it is rather insulting. Although it is true that there was indeed a huge amount of cynicism about computer games when they first came out..
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Apr 23, 2017 22:32
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Hah, I was right! The true path only took you ten minutes! Heck, you could probably do it in five just by spamming the Milgram room.
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Apr 24, 2017 01:13
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Wow, that's shockingly meta for a game of that age, but I need to ask how the expected to sell a second game that was basically an updated version of this?
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Apr 24, 2017 03:49
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Deathwind posted:Wow, that's shockingly meta for a game of that age, but I need to ask how the expected to sell a second game that was basically an updated version of this?
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Apr 24, 2017 04:00
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It just strikes me that, given the Uchikoshi reference, it's not Zero Escape, it's Remember 11. Just for some more content, here's the full list of scoring activities. Numbers in brackets are for Prisoner 2: 1 (0) - Asking a who/what/where/etc. question in the church 1 (0) - For each letter in a successfully completed Hangman round in the courtroom 1 (0) - Accepting an incorrect resignation code in the Milgram experiment (1) - Mentioning the Brotherhood to the Caretaker (2) - Winning the second trial 3 (3) - Asking about escaping in the church 3 (-) - Every time advancing the referee game in the library 5 (3) - Identifying yourself as "?" when leaving the castle (up to 5 times per visit) 5 (5) - Refusing to make a contribution to the church 5 (5) - For each "correct" answer given while being tested to join the priesthood (5) - Being caught by Pax attempting to jump over the fence (5) - Saying "self" to the caretaker (8) - Winning the fourth trial 10 (5) - Identifying yourself as "!" when leaving the castle (up to 5 times per visit) 10 (0) - Pressing the Escape key (and getting gassed) while walking around the island (10) - Landing next to the filing cabinet in the Carnival (10) - Lowering the Psychomotor skills level to zero 15 (15) - Every time you contact the Brotherhood 15 (0) - Triggering the fake syntax error in the hospital 15 (0) - Entering the wilderness 20 (0) - Every time you accept a mission from the Brotherhood 20 (5) - Completing the "ramps" pit crossing game in the Rec Center 20 (5) - Pressing a key in the school before the bell 25 (5) - Escaping the castle by pressing the ESCAPE key instead of solving the maze (20) - Being caught by Pax in the wilderness (25) - Entering DROP while in the Castle maze (32) - Winning the sixth trial 40 (0) - Discovering the cloning machine in the diner 50 (0) - Being cloned in the diner 50 (10) - Completing the "raft" pit crossing game in the Rec Center (50) - Getting the Broomstick in the Grail Hall (50) - Getting the Treasure in the Grail Hall (128) - Winning the eighth trial 150 (75) - Completing the "great chair" Brotherhood mission 225 (150) - Completing the "newspaper headlines" Brotherhood mission 300 (225) - Completing the "filing cabinet" Brotherhood mission (300) - Completing the "run the island" Brotherhood mission (512) - Winning the tenth trial -1 (-) - Pressing an invalid key while in the Castle maze -1 (-1) - Swearing in the church (-1) - Swearing in the command prompt -1-2 (-1) - Playing the "a piece of yourself" slot machine in the casino -2 (-1) - For each point of final voltage applied in the Milgram experiment -3 (0) - Identifying yourself as "#" to successfully leave the castle -5 (0) - Waiting too long after the bell at the school to start 0 (-5) - Swearing at the Caretaker or saying "Mary Had a little lamb" to him -10 (-20) - Performing the balloon grabbing trick in the carnival -10 (0) - Entering a swear word at the fake syntax error in the hospital -10 (-10) - Pausing/saving the game (!) -10 (-25) - Asking for a clue when pausing/saving the game (-10) - Failing to prevent a book being burned in the library -20 (-20) - Refusing to play the "run the island" game -20 (0) - Completing the free association game and being judged "adapting nicely" -20 (0) - Entering NEW or PR#6 (the reboot command) to the fake syntax error in the hospital -20+ (-) - Walking into one of the dots in the third game in the Rec Center -25 (0) - Choosing to return to the island at the train station hyphz fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 14:05
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SelenicMartian posted:The second one went multiplatform. So they made an marginally enhanced port to release for other platforms and just sold it as a sequel on the Apple II? That's shady, even for the 80's...
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Apr 25, 2017 08:36
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Deathwind posted:So they made an marginally enhanced port to release for other platforms and just sold it as a sequel on the Apple II? That's shady, even for the 80's... Like  Which is a reference to this colossal piece of poo poo by K. and R. Williams https://archive.org/details/Hi-Res_Adventure_1_Mystery_House_1980_On-Line_Systems Seriously, even for 1980, even for Sierra, Mystery House is garbage. It sold only on pretty graphics.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:29
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SelenicMartian posted:Seriously, even for 1980, even for Sierra, Mystery House is garbage. It sold only on pretty graphics. Did a quick check for Games Released In 1980 and hoo boy, not a lot of competition in either direction, to be honest, at least in the home... ... but I think I'd still rather play Akalabeth than Mystery House.
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Apr 26, 2017 03:47
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