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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, this feels like the same problem I had with Caramoan when it aired and why I was in constant fights with folks. Malcolm was "stupid" for trying to get out from under the bottom of his alliance while Andrea was "smart" for laying back and getting picked off? I just see it the opposite. It didn't work for Malcolm, and a lot of that can fall on Corinne being an idiot. But I don't think he was wrong to not be content to just "let Phillip Sheppard be Phillip Sheppard" and wait for his alliance to get around to cutting him sooner rather than later. The basic inevitable story of that season and why I hated it so much. Malcolm was the only one trying to change that. It's not at all clear to me that Malcolm was on the "bottom" of the Favorites alliance at the merge, and I certainly don't see how you could think Andrea was at the bottom and just waiting to be picked off. The 8 Favorites left at the merge was a weirdly structured way-too-big alliance with 4 leaders (Phillip, Andrea, Dawn, and Cochran) who would have (and did!) turn on each other at some point. I can't blame Malcolm and Corrine too much for flipping, but in hindsight it might have been wise to let that giant alliance turn on itself, and try to survive the wreckage. It's very easy to envision a road map where Andrea tries to scoop up the 4 "pawns" in Erik, Brenda, Malcolm, and Corrine to take out Cochran, Dawn, and Phillip, and then Corinne and Malcolm knock Andrea out before the finals. Super big alliances with multiple leaders are the perfect alliances to ride for a little and turn on later, kind of like what Sherri tried to do that season, but she left out the important last step of knocking out Dawn and Cochran before the finals.
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Feb 25, 2017 03:00
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curiousCat posted:Malcolm's plan there was to threaten with the idols, not play either of them, and hope for the best. He only played his idol in response to Eddie playing to one that he gave him. Which just goes to show the plan wasn't fully thought-through. Granted, I can't blame him too much due to the time constraints (I think he found the second idol literally minutes before they left for Tribal) but in retrospect it's clear he could have played the two idols better.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:30
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STAC Goat posted:JT and the Heroes had this theory that since the Villains kept voting out men that the tribe was being controlled by a women's alliance. In reality Russell and Parvati were basically running the tribe, but the Heroes had no idea what kind of player Russell was and assumed he was at the mercy of the women. Getting close to the merge the Heroes were down in numbers and know they'd be Pagonged so JT decided to take his idol and give it to Russell with a note that he should use it to save himself and then unite with them in the merge. He managed to pass this to Russell in the challenge and when Russell found it he had the laugh of his life. He shared it with Parvatti who then took up dramatic readings of it the letter to all the Villains as they laughed maniacally at JT's foolishness. This was a great summary, but there are 3 important details left out: -The Heroes were NOT going into the Merge down in numbers; miraculously they had come back from some early losses and were going into the merge 5-5. At worst they could have drawn rocks, but at best... -They could have flipped Sandra to their side to make it 6-4, who TRIED to flip to the Heroes at the merge and warn them that Russell was playing them, and they all thought that Sandra was lying to them and refused to let her flip to save them (actually, I think Rupert was the only one who half-believed Sandra, but no one believed Rupert either). -The exact details of how that merge vote played out are somewhat complicated, but the short version was that the idol that J.T. gave Russell was one of two idols played by Parvati at the merge, sending J.T. out 5-0. So in a sense, his own idol is exactly what sent him home. Like you said, it's not the WORST move ever, especially compared to something like Erik giving up the immunity necklace. It's certainly easy to see the upside to the move had J.T. been right. It's just kind of strange that of all the ways to avoid a 5-5 tie, he took arguably the riskiest way, and then literally everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:11
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A change in the rules this season: https://parade.com/551340/joshwigler/survivor-game-changers-tie-breaker-twist-no-more-revote/ The summary is that there will be no more re-votes on a tie vote. If a vote is tied, the players have to either unanimously agree to one of the targets or draw rocks. This is essentially an effort to prevent vote splitting, which as a consequence will make the hidden immunity idol more powerful. I have mixed opinions about this. The rock tiebreaker is supposed to be the nuclear option, a punishment for a completely deadlocked tie where nobody budges. The fact that this tiebreaker can now be triggered by some weird technicality where somebody votes for the wrong person is sort of against the point of having a purposefully unfair tiebreaker. It will be interesting to see if and how the meta game evolves though, since I do think vote splitting has gotten too easy to do post-Heroes vs. Villains. I can see the rule change playing out in a couple of ways. On one hand, making the idol even more powerful might promote safe boring gameplay, centered around building a solid majority around whoever has the idol(s) (like the worst parts of the 21-24 era). On the other hand, perhaps the inability of a majority alliance to reliably defend against idols with vote splits will lead to more voting-bloc type seasons, where no one feels safe long enough to coalesce around a single majority alliance.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:37
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:It's not gonna do that much tbh. Just now instead of doing a 4-4 vote split, you just do a 5-3 vote split and call it a day. It's not just enough to split unequal amounts, you have to split unequal amounts AND make sure both amounts are strictly larger than the minority. Changing a 4-4 split to a 5-3 split to get around the new rules only works if the minority alliance has 2 people. If there are 3 in the minority, a 5-3 split results in a 5-3-3 vote, and if the person who has 5 votes plays an idol then it's a 3-3 tie which will now probably lead to rocks. ETA: AND even if you have a big enough majority to split unequal amounts on two minority alliance members, there are certain situations where the minority alliance might be able to force rocks by voting for themselves. For example, in a hypothetical 5-4 split against an alliance of 3, if the alliance of 3 can guess which of them is getting the 4 votes, they can put an extra vote on that person to engineer a 5-5-2 vote and then force rocks. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 02:19
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Against all odds, Sandra and Tony actually survive the first vote AND get their poo poo together long enough to form a majority alliance to protect each other. Tony totally deserves his early boot here for throwing that miracle away by antagonizing the fifth member of the extremely fragile five he put together. Definitely disappointing to see Tony (and Ciera too) out so early, but also a pretty exciting and satisfying (and funny!) episode. Hoping Cirie can salvage her game at the swap, since I would love to see her go deep again. Also hoping Sandra can creep back in the shadows now that Tony is gone, because while playing from the front worked for her here I don't think it will work for much longer. ETA: Also hoping the start of the next episode explains who exactly filled Malcolm, Caleb, and Aubry in on the vote and convinced them to change. It seems like Varner and Michaela flirted with both sides before choosing Sandra's side, and then probably told Malcolm/Caleb/Aubry that Sandra had the numbers and there was nothing they could do. But it'd be kind of interesting actually seeing Michaela and Varner get on the same page there, and also a little surprising that Caleb didn't try to go down with the ship since that seems like a very Caleb thing to do. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 05:52
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STAC Goat posted:Cirie's another player who has to find a little chill if she's going to survive. She's fighting against her well established reputation as a backstabber and schemer and she gleefully admits its all well deserved. The only way she can counter that is to just play it straight and convince people you're not going to do that (and then of course do it when the time comes). Ozzy doesn't trust her because she betrayed him once, so she can only really try and show Ozzy that she's trustworthy (until the moment she backstabs him). But Cirie can't really help but talk and try and work things and that just feeds into her reputation. I'm a bit biased since Cirie is one of my all-time favorite players, but I don't blame her at all for how she's handling her situation. Returning player seasons are filled with big strategic threats who try to play tight to prove that they're not a threat but accidentally let those crucial early days of alliance building slip through their fingers, and by the time they go to their first Tribal it's too late. I give Cirie a lot of credit for recognizing that she's in a bad spot despite everyone telling her otherwise, and I think she's correct that she needs to do *something* and do it quickly. Obviously, based on what we saw, she should have tried a different tactic or maybe even go all-in on idol hunting, but we clearly have a lot more info than she does. I'm glad she made it to the swap, because with a new smaller group of people maybe the group-think will let up and she'll have a chance to pull some people over.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:00
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I think someone like Aubry was screwed by the jury much more than Russell. With Russell, we saw him blatantly antagonize multiple jury members, constantly being goaded into picking fights with others, and generally annoying everyone for no good reason especially in the last few days. It made sense that the jury didn't want to reward that. But with Aubry, the jury vote is much harder to understand. We never saw Aubry antagonize anyone, and multiple jurors were constantly saying how much they liked and respected Aubry (including Scot, Jason, and Debbie, who all ended up voting Michele over Aubry). I guess maybe the edit just didn't capture what Aubry did, but even in post-game interviews no one has ever been able to satisfactorily explain why Aubry lost and some (most notably Jason) even seemed to indicate some regret for their vote.
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Mar 15, 2017 04:15
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Nexal posted:Interesting scenario if troyzan pulls idol in play and the votes go 3 on him 1 on someone else and 1 someone other. Can't troyzan force the remaining 2 voters to go for rocks? Troyzan's tribe is 6 people, so it'd be 4-1-1, but same idea holds. Specifically, it might be a good idea for him to say "I have the idol and am playing it no matter what. Tonight I'm voting for Zeke. Zeke, the only way to save yourself is to vote for someone other than me, of your choosing. Then, the rest go to rocks unless someone else flips their vote." If Troyzan does intend to threaten the others with the idol, he'll actually need to do something creative like that though. A generic "I have the idol everyone, let's all vote Ozzy because I'm voting for him anyway" at Tribal won't really work because the others can just lie and say they are voting Ozzy and actually vote Troyzan, so either Troyzan goes out 5-1 or Troyzan plays the idol and Ozzy goes out with 1 vote and the next round they just vote out Troyzan anyway. He could try the Survivor Russian Roulette thing that Mike tried and announce at Tribal that he has the idol and is voting for someone at random, but then he risks an inner alliance of 3 (say Andrea, Ozzy, and Sarah) putting votes on Cirie and then just voting Troyzan out next time. An alternate idea to actually build a solid alliance of 3 going forward might be to threaten 2 specific people that are extra paranoid. Lay out the following scenario in private, to say Cirie and Zeke: "I have the idol and my target is any one of the other three of Sarah, Andrea, or Ozzy. Because I have no way to trust you until the votes are read, I'm voting for one of you two at random and playing my idol. If you want to work with me, vote one of the other three tonight and make sure the other three vote for me, and it'll be a 2-1 vote and your safe. Otherwise, if you vote for me, one of you two will be out with 1 vote. Or, if you spoil this plan to the other 3, they'll just target one of you two to save themselves." If he's daring, he could approach two others (say, Andrea and Sarah) with the same plan, and then potentially risk sitting on the idol.
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Mar 19, 2017 02:06
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Fast Luck posted:Did he really? He told Brad the vote wasn't going to be on him, then went back and told his tribe he told Brad that, so they could vote for Brad. I don't know why he'd want that to happen since Brad is his ally but he seemed transparent about what he'd told Brad and gave them the opening to take Brad out. But then there were like 20 more huddles so I don't know I guess. Considering JT himself voted Sierra, I don't think this is completely right. Anyway, Malcolm got screwed, but really whoever got voted out tonight would have been screwed. I'm just glad it was Malcolm over Sandra, since if the only two-time winner is only voted out in her third time because of a nonsensical twist then (1) we as viewers all lose, and (2) we as fans will never hear the end of it from Sandra fans who would continue to insist she still has a perfect record technically (I would be one of those fans, by the way). The twist would have been a lot better if they got to go back to one camp together and strategize there. Malcolm had no realistic opportunity to defend himself (nor did Sandra or Brad or Sierra, who all could have just as easily gone home in that mess). Also, the new rules with respect to tiebreakers meant that, without private time at camp to strategize, it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to vote with the other side. JT or Hali or anyone else that wanted to flip couldn't risk putting their vote on the wrong person and accidentally causing a 5-5-1 tie or something that would go to rocks. If they had time to strategize it's still a bad twist, but at least the outcome would have made more sense: either Sandra's group replaces JT with Hali in their 6-person majority and they successfully vote out Sierra or Brad without JT being able to leak the vote, OR they keep JT in the fold and he still leaks the vote, but only after he is able to ensure that Sandra will be idol'd out and not Malcolm.
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Mar 23, 2017 03:24
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Debbie's meltdown quickly crossed the line from "funny Rodney temper tantrum over doing dishes" to "scary Brandon Hantz explosion where someone could get hurt." It was uncomfortable to watch, and I feel bad for Debbie, Tai, and everyone else on that tribe.  I hope the (preview spoiler) tribe swap helps her mentally reset and move on from this.ETA: But, on a brighter note, the JT boot was fantastic. Rooting for Varner, Sandra, and Michaela to run the tables to the Final 3. I also have to give props to Malcolm. In all of his exit interviews, he made it seems like he never got to talk to JT post-game about last week's Tribal, which made me certain JT wasn't pre-jury. I don't know if Malcolm was lying just to plant a false spoiler and make this episode more surprising, but I appreciate it nonetheless. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 03:12
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Cirie's rogue Sierra vote was probably a mistake, but to play devil's advocate: since she didn't know about Debbie's extra vote, if she had any sense that it wasn't going to be a unanimous Zeke vote after all, then the possibility of a 6-6 tie was high, which could have very well gone to rocks. It's still probably a mistake because (1) with the high possibility of Zeke also casting a rogue vote, she very well could have accidentally triggered a 5-5-1-1 tie, (2) *she* could have been voted out in that scenario by a 6-5-1 vote if the 6 were targeting her, and (3) she did seem completely blindsided and didn't seem to know the vote would be that close.
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Apr 20, 2017 04:50
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That was a really fun episode because pretty much everyone was playing well. Going into this episode, I thought the best play for Sarah/Zeke was to continue riding the middle. Often that strategy results in the person in the middle getting taken out (like Will last season), but this time the numbers worked out JUST right-- in theory, if the Andrea/Cirie side voted out, say, Sarah, than Zeke would then join the Brad/Sierra side, and the Andrea/Cirie side would now be a 4-person minority at Final 9. In that sense, Sarah/Zeke had both sides trapped-- they could keep flipping between the sides all the way to the top, and whichever side was their current side could never turn on them without risking losing their majority. Both Sarah and Zeke seemed to realize this, but unfortunately for them so did Cirie and Andrea. The only way out of the trap was to get Sarah or Zeke to turn on one another-- it's why Cirie and Andrea were so insistent on getting Sarah on board with the plan first even though they didn't need her vote numerically (if Sarah voted Sierra, it still would have been 4-3-3 on Zeke). They were really smart to put that much pressure on Sarah-- she was smart enough to realize it wasn't worth the political capital to save Zeke, but if they had given her an out and let her save Zeke than that side would have been at Sarah/Zeke's mercy for the rest of the game (and, as we saw, they had no intention with cooperating with Andrea in the longterm). And props to everyone for realizing how risky the entire plan was, and going through with it anyway. Michaela was completely on point that voting out Zeke thins their majority, and if Sarah flips again they are screwed. BUT it's still a necessary move, because if they don't take out Zeke now while Sarah is (barely) on board, they are leaving way too much power in Sarah/Zeke's hands and might not get another chance to pull this off. Anyway, really impressive stuff tonight on all sides on a season that has been strategically pretty straightforward (a lot of the pre-merge) or semi-nonsensical (a lot of the post-merge).
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May 4, 2017 04:47
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Poque posted:Revotes are gone, it'd go to rocks but she'd be the only one to draw a rock I don't think votes after a 0-0 vote count as "re-votes." In Cambodia when this happened, after the 0-0 vote Jeff said they would vote again, and after THAT vote was tied 3-3 Jeff did ask verbally if they wanted to bother with the formal re-vote for the 3-3 tie. So I think in this scenario of 5 of the Final 6 being immune, the person without immunity would just automatically go out. I think a bigger rules concern is that apparently the rules are written in a way so that "Rock drawing is the tie breaker except at Final 4, then it is fire-making" and NOT the more sensible "Rock drawing is the tie breaker except in the case where only one person or fewer would draw a rock, then it is fire-making." But what if 4 people are immune at Final 6 and the vote is a 3-3 tie between the only two non-immune people? I would guess fire making, but are the rules really "Fire making is the tie-breaker at Final 4 (where only one person would draw a rock) OR in a scenario where 0 people would draw a rock BUT NOT in non-Final 4 situations where only 1 person would draw a rock."
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May 7, 2017 16:05
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STAC Goat posted:I think people read too much into the edit with stuff like this. Its possible it will forshadow something but its just as likely if not more that its just a thing that happened and they included it because (a) it happened in a challenge, (b) it was the sort of character moment the show likes, and (c) it happened at a key game point where Michaela missed the power and Sarah saw it. Yeah, I think that Cirie scene was awkward on TV but would have been included on the show no matter what. For whatever reason, it looks like it was a much more emotional moment on location and that just didn't quite translate to TV. IIRC, you can see almost everyone (including the winning team) crying during the challenge itself when Cirie is struggling, before Probst even makes it into a thing. Zesty posted:I'm not interested in streaming. I go outside sometimes. I think there's a separate Australian Survivor podcast feed that has Nick's NZ Survivor podcast on it (and the Australian Survivor Know It Alls that Rob and Stephen did a few months ago). It looks like it's called "Australian Survivor Recap Podcasts" which is strange since it doesn't actually mention RHAP or Know It Alls in the title at all, but there ya go.
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May 10, 2017 14:23
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I'm definitely not a Troyzan fan, but you guys are being way too hard on him for not using the idol. He had no way to know the votes were going on Sierra this round, since the people that were telling his side that Cirie's group were putting votes on Sierra (Michaela, Tai, and Sarah) were ALSO telling his side they were voting with him. The only way he would know to play the idol on Sierra is if he knew they were lying about one thing and not the other. And if he had tried to use the idol last round he would have wasted it since his side had absolutely no idea that Zeke was getting votes. You could maybe argue that he should have been leveraging the idol without actually playing it, but what specific scenario are you thinking of? If he takes it out at the Final 10 Tribal last week, no one in the majority besides Zeke would have cared because they were blindsiding their own anyway. And if he did that this round he risks scaring away the votes of Sarah, Michaela, and Tai who he thought he already had. I think Troyzan correctly sees that he is the least threatening member of his alliance at the moment, so he can afford to be a bit selfish with the idol and sit on it for a few more rounds and hope the majority breaks apart on its own. He could probably be doing more to stir up trouble and/or make connections with the other side, but I'm not too bothered by his conservative playing with the idol. I think if you want to blame someone for not using their idols properly, it's probably Tai. Unlike Troyzan, he DID know that Sierra was getting voted out for sure and could have stopped it. Then next week he's in, at worst, a 4-4 situation where he only has to flip back either Michaela or Sarah to regain the majority. Are Michaela and Sarah really going to rocks at Final 8 to protect Andrea? And if Tai is worried the votes might then turn on *him* at Final 8, he can just play the second idol. I get that, from Tai's perspective, it's hard to go back to Brad Troyzan and Sierra after they voted for him, but I don't think he's necessarily in a better situation with the majority.
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May 12, 2017 17:45
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Fast Luck posted:This cast is really weird because it puts giants like Sandra, Cirie, Tony, Ozzy, and Malcolm in the same game as total nobodies like Brad, Hali, Sierra, and Caleb. Yeah that's the biggest problem with this cast. All-returnee seasons *do* always have weird lesser-name casting choices, but there has never been such a large gap between a bunch of big name legends AND a bunch of weirdo no-names in the same season. 20 definitely had a few weird choices like Candice and Danielle, but pretty much everyone else was a legend. The cast this season was like a 33/33/33 split of legends, medium-sized stars, and weirdo WTF choices, and there was no way most of the legends would be able to stick around for very long as a result. All-returnee seasons need to have returnees of roughly the same star power: either almost all legends like 20, or the more uniformly medium star quality of 31; the star power was a lot more imbalanced in 8 and 34 and I don't think it's a coincidence that they're probably the 2 weaker of the 4 all-returnee seasons. ETA: I also think it helped 31 that the theme helped shield the few bigger names like Spencer and Kass and Stephen, where people were less worried about them because the theme emphasized how they had never won or returned before. Whereas this theme in 34 is sort of the opposite because it really put a spotlight on the legends and made everyone want to go big-game hunting from Day 1. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 23:19
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I think this season is pretty good, but it definitely doesn't live up to 20 and 31 to me, and I think the casting is a big part why. Losing all of those epic heavyweight players so early and being left with a much more middling returnee cast is inevitably disappointing, and even though the gameplay is generally interesting it's not *quite* interesting enough to make up for it. Again, the way to fix this is cast a returnee season with more uniform star power. Either a big legends season where we could lose people like Tony, Malcolm, and Sandra early and still have big players left to duke it out at the end, OR a season of all lesser-names where we can actually see people like Sarah and Zeke and Andrea with some regularity pre-merge, instead of them just coming out of nowhere to take over the second half of the game. Either of those would produce a stronger season, I think.
mancalamania fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 04:24
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I don't know why people are so upset about the editing not explaining why Michaela went. It seemed clear to me that the plan came together at Tribal-- we saw Sarah whisper with Brad, and they conspired on the spot to get Michaela out for whatever reason that will become clear in post-Tribal confessionals at the start of next episode. Admittedly, the editing still left some pieces out. Was Tai really trying to get Sarah out? What votes did he have? What votes did he think he had? It seems like pre-Tribal Tai was voting Sarah, Aubry/Michaela/Cirie were voting Tai, but we don't really know who exactly Sarah, Brad, and Troyzan were voting for. The show, I guess, would have us believe Sarah was voting Troyzan and Troyzan/Brad were voting Sarah, but we never actually saw footage confirming that. Also, it seems like Tai thought at least Cirie and Aubry (and presumably Michaela) were with him, maybe to vote Sarah out? It's definitely a bit of an editing mess, but it's hard to blame the editors given how much the episode had to cover, and I certainly can't blame them for not showing people planning to vote out Michaela when that presumably came up in unrecorded whispers. Also, while I don't know what Cirie was thinking by not reading the rules carefully, the rule was poorly enforced. If the advantage is non-transferable, why can Sarah even give the paper away? If she gets voted out is the advantage useless? Why was Sarah allowed to say that "this way you can have it if I get voted out"? Why did no producer clarify the rules with Cirie when she was explaining how she understood the rules in confessional? Bluffing and lying are big parts of the game, but when people are making moves based on false interpretations of rules that's not really fun for the players or the viewers. It's the same thing with Tony's unfair claim that his super idol protected him at Final 4. How can other players counteract a move like that without producers clarifying the rules?
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May 18, 2017 03:01
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Cirie had a written explanation under her nose. I'm more inclined to allow this than Jeff tacitly agreeing to the specific special powers Tony claimed his idol had. You're right, I shouldn't have said it's the same thing, it just fits the general category of producers not correcting someone who misunderstands the rules (until the last possible moment). Cirie is to blame for not reading, but I also think production made a mistake by not stepping in earlier when she clearly misunderstood the rules in confessional. ETA: Also I don't get the complaint that this shouldn't have been a double boot. The double boots are clearly pre-scheduled, which is why they always occur with two rounds without reward challenges. The solution to this episode not being a double boot is no double boots at all, but in that case we're stuck with 18-episode seasons where any quits and med-evacs have to be their own episodes. I will definitely take a hastily edited episode like this over a redux of Neal or Joe's boring anticlimactic medevacs in 32. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 04:05
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Lone Goat posted:Also producers should step in whenever someone is lying. That's pretty rude, you see. I had a feeling my argument would be misconstrued that way, but there's a difference between lying about your position in the game (who has idols, who is playing idols, who you are voting for) and lying about the rules of the game itself. The players need to know the rules of the game they are playing, and if someone does not correctly understand the rules it should probably be production's job to correct them. If I'm the host of a Mafia game and I see one of the players explain a rule incorrectly (maybe they claim Mafia can't vote to lynch themsleves or something), I'll correct them because it's not really fun (as a viewer or a player) to have a game where the players don't know the rules. I don't let them waste an hour and let the Mafia walk all over the Village and then explain at the end with a poo poo-eating grin that "ACTUALLY I never said Mafia can't vote for themselves, YOU said that  ."
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May 18, 2017 04:48
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Yeah, all of Michaela's exit interviews are great, but her insistence that the numbers just didn't really add up in Cirie's plan isn't necessarily true. The following scenario is consistent with everything in the episode and with what Michaela said and the numbers still make sense: Tai/Brad/Troyzan were all voting Sarah thinking Cirie and/or Aubry were ALSO voting Sarah, Sarah was voting Aubry, and Cirie/Michaela/Aubry were voting Tai. That's 3-3-1 vote, and Sarah is refusing to budge, and if Tai/Brad/Troyzan find out about this they will potentially just join Sarah and vote out Aubry 4-3 (or force a rock draw since they don't have much to lose). If that's all the case (or even if Cirie THOUGHT it was the case), the only way to save both Sarah and Aubry is to steal a vote to get Tai out with 4 total votes, and if Cirie steals anyone besides Sarah's vote, Tai will know Cirie is stealing a vote against Sarah and will know something is up and play an idol.
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May 19, 2017 22:11
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STAC Goat posted:There HAVE been a lot of unnecessary powers and twists this season but the current situation is only slightly about them. Slick's right. Mostly this is about the regular idols and them just not getting played. The Legacy one makes it a little more extreme but we wouldn't be having this conversation if the idols had ended up in different hands. I agree that this doesn't really have to do with the extra advantages, but disagree that people wouldn't be having this conversation if the idols were in different hands. Ever since they started doing 3 tribes more frequently, people online have been pointing out the possible problem of having 3 idols all played at the Final 5 (plus an immunity necklace) causing the same issue. Rather than making the obvious fix of moving the last Tribal that idols can be used from Final 5 to Final 6, production instead doubled down on this annoying scenario by adding a fourth idol that will automatically be played at 6, meaning now both 5 and 6 have the possibility of triggering an auto-eliminate. Here's an easy fix for the future: last Tribal idols can be played is Final 6, EXCEPT Legacy which is only playable at 5. Also serves to make Legacy Advantage more powerful and interesting.
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May 20, 2017 20:42
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Jenn being immature and annoying wasn't just a one-off in her last two episodes when she asked to be voted off. Don't forget, she was being so mean to Nina that Jenn was almost the second person voted out of the season, and was saved by the grace of Will flipping at the last second due to a miscommunication with Vince. Jenn was far from the worst person on that season, but I don't really have any desire to see her again or really anyone from Worlds Apart besides Shirin, Mike, and maybe Carolyn.
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May 21, 2017 23:11
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STAC Goat posted:I don't think we actually saw any indication that Jenn and Hali were actually mean to Nina. And just based on Hali's second appearance it seems unlikely to me that she'd go out of her way to be rude to someone in the game. At worst I imagine Jenn was just completely unsympathetic to Nina feeling out of place and isolated and made sarcastic comments about it. I mean, we'll never have the insight to see if Nina really was overreacting or not but that's the impression the show gave. And with the benefit of hindsight they probably had no reason to be generous to Jenn's edit if she had genuinely done something to Nina. I agree about Hali, but the way the show portrayed it was more that Hali and Joe were being callous but also sympathetic to Nina and making a (mostly failed) effort to include her. Jenn was the one being actively rude and exclusionary (mostly in confessional, but also out). I don't see any reason to give Jenn the benefit of the doubt here, considering her actions in the endgame and post-show have been pretty consistent with her being a generally mean and immature person. Her "snark" in confessionals was a little more endearing in the midgame when she was a scrappy underdog with an idol plotting against the main alliance of Rodney and Dan, but even then she was more of a poor-man's Courtney Yates with double the meanness but half of the wit.
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May 22, 2017 00:02
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I complained after the Final 7 Tribal Council about players being screwed by not all knowing the rules of the game their playing, and I think that also applies to Final 6. No one besides Sarah knew (or could have known) about the Legacy Advantage, and every other member of the Final 6 had never seen a season where 4 idols were in play at the same time. From Tai/Cirie/Aubry's perspective there should have only been one other idol in the game (at most) in addition to Tai's two, and the "worst" case scenario is that Sarah has it and it's a 0-0 vote where presumably Cirie and Troyzan have to make fire. It's aggravating seeing players being unable to strategize around twists and advantages they don't know about and/or don't understands the rules for. The idols are fun because everyone knows what they are and how they work. But how is it fun seeing a legend of the game being taken out by a secret fourth idol that no one knew could have existed? Wouldn't it have been more fun if they all knew the Legacy was out there, and they were all strategizing around it and trying to plan a contingency plan for if Troyzan and Sarah had both an idol and legacy? Wouldn't it be interesting to know if Tai still plays both of his idols if he knows there is a possibility that all three of Troy/Sarah/Brad would be immune? I don't really know what the show is thinking with these secret powers that no one even knows exists. As far as I can tell they've produced 3 "memorable" moments (Tony lying that he was safe at Final 4, and the Final 7 + 6 this season), all of which are only "memorable" because otherwise smart players couldn't strategize properly because they didn't know the rules of the game they were playing. The way to fix it is just explain exactly what advantages will be in play in a given season pre-game, and make sure everyone fully understands the rules. You don't have to give away who has what or how they will be hidden or anything, but if there is a power in the game that affects the basic rule mechanics of voting people out, the players should know about it and be able to strategize around it.
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May 29, 2017 23:36
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Idols with expiration dates is a fine idea, although I think it should be as simple as separate pre-merge and post-merge idols. I think it could lead to some exciting changes in the strategy of the late pre-merge as players are desperate to use their soon-to-be-useless idols. And the obvious benefit is you can put a hard cap of 2 idols active in the post-merge, which should be more than enough. But really, even though I like that idea and some of the other ideas in this thread, I think the fanbase is really overthinking how to "fix" the season. Two simple changes preserve essentially every good moment of the past 5 seasons or so (since they started doing the "advantages") while removing all the bad moments: (1) Kill advantages related to voting (silly things like steal-a-reward or advantage-in-a-challenge are fine) since they're impossible to strategize around and haven't contributed to any memorable (in a good way) moments, (2) Tweak the idol expiration date so that if N idols can be in the game at once, the last time they can be played is at Final N + 3 so at least 2 people are eligible to receive votes at every Tribal. The gameplay in recent seasons (especially 28, 31, 32, 33) has been really exciting and dynamic, and that has to do entirely with putting together a strong cast and nothing to do with the stupid advantages.
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Jun 1, 2017 03:55
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Is Survivor NZ any good? I didn't click that video above because I don't want to get spoiled, but I know the early reviews of the first episode or two seemed pretty lukewarm. Has it gotten any better?
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Jun 9, 2017 20:34
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Inside Survivor just posted a leaked pitch document for a version of Season 30 involving returning players and the same subtitle of 36, which explains how the twist will probably work. Not sure if we need to spoiler this, but just in case, some gut reactions to this twist: I actually think it's a really neat idea. I see why they originally were going to use it with returnees, since it would be easier to keep a narrative on Ghost Island going if we only see them for 2 minutes a week but already know all of the Ghosts. But I actually am glad they are using newbies, because I think it would be heartbreaking to bring back returnees and almost a third of the cast doesn't even get to play. Some tweaks I hope they make: -10 Ghosts might be too much (even if they anticipate some quits), especially for newbies. 4-6 might be better. -I don't really like the idea of entering the game on Day 37. I think re-entry at the swap and at the merge would be better times, and you could even have 2 Ghosts re-enter at the swap (one for each tribe) to increase the total number who get to return. -The article ends with speculation that maybe this version will have the voted-out players also join Ghost Island, which I don't like and hope isn't true. But I do like the idea of completely new players with no baggage joining the game part of the way through, and this is as good as any of a way to do it.
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Jun 11, 2017 02:04
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A big twist in how the endgame works for next season was leaked (spoilers for a game mechanic / twist, not actual season spoilers... unclear when exactly the show will announce it): http://insidesurvivor.com/a-game-changing-twist-set-for-season-35-28428 My reaction: -Immediate response is to dislike the twist. You're changing the most fundamental mechanic of the show at probably the most important vote of the season. -BUT thinking it through further, it's actually not so terrible. A big reason some fans prefer Final 2s over Final 3s is a Final 2 encourages a more dynamic endgame, because a mutually agreed upon Final 3 deal controls the majority vote in the last few votes, whereas a mutually agreed upon Final 2 never has a majority in any useful way. This shakes that problem up-- now a mutually agreed upon Final 3 deal is not as simple as "just make sure the one outsider doesn't win the last immunity." It's still possible that there will be a Final 3 alliance that tries to run the last few votes, but there's at least more of an incentive to turn on each other now if you worry you would have to make fire (and can't). However, for this to actually benefit the game, the players would need to know about the twist WELL before the Final 4 vote (preferably at the start of the game, but at least by around Final 7 or so at the latest). -On the other hand, this primary "problem" with the Final 3 might not actually *be* a problem. Final 3s have historically resulted in more satisfying winners and while there are a lot of possible reasons for that, I have always thought it's because a really skilled player can potentially build one of these rock solid Final 3 deals that they know they can win. It's a much more stable route to winning than any method available in a Final 2 season.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:53
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I personally really liked Australian Survivor until the merge. The pre-merge was really exciting and definitely on par with the better seasons of the U.S. version (modulo a few unfair twists), but the post-merge was a complete slog. The last few episodes got a little bit better, but even then the episodes were way too long for the number of people in play and the amount of gameplay happening. I'm optimistic for the upcoming season though, because I think the idea of a supersized Survivor is inherently interesting. On the other hand, I thought Survivor NZ was pretty bad all around. The key detail people leave out when they mention Australian Survivor and Survivor NZ airing multiple episodes a week is that almost every Australian Survivor episode ends in an elimination, but only about half of the Survivor NZ episodes end in an elimination. Even when the gameplay got a little unpredictable postmerge, the show was still incredibly slow-paced and not very fun to watch.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:07
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ApplesandOranges posted:The twists are finally coming in in Australian Survivor, but for the most part they're still pretty decently executed. Also ha at Henry basically dooming his allies by jumping ship. While I still like the season, I disagree that the most recent twist was decently executed. The biggest mistake Australian Survivor made last season was letting the players prepare a blindside and then changing the rules at the last second, punishing everyone involved. Those twists really contribute to crushing the fun dynamic play of the pre-merge with the super boring conservative gameplay in the post-merge. If I'm a player this season, after this most recent twist I'd be nervous to ever try to blindside anyone again since I can't trust that I'm actually voting them out and not secretly sending them to a new tribe or giving them a Hidden Immunity Idol or who knows what. Which is a shame, because this twist would have been salvageable-- just have Jonathan tell them right after the Immunity challenge that they were only voting someone out of the tribe and not out of the game. The players can keep their trust in knowing what their vote is actually doing, and the outcome is probably the same or maybe even more interesting since someone may have volunteered (like Henry, whose switch is much more strategically interesting than Samatau trying to vote out their Bottom Two and accidentally giving them a second life). As many problems as I had with the twists in Game Changers, they pulled the "surprise at Tribal!" trick much better with the 2-tribes-1-Tribal: Jeff actually warned them pre-Tribal what was actually going to happen and we got to see all the weird strategic implications play out as the players grappled with it.
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Aug 24, 2017 04:12
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Teek posted:Australian Survivor Season 4 Episode 11: No vote out, instead a vote to choose someone to search for a super idol. Not the Tyler Perry Idol, but an idol that *cancels* another played idol (and also apparently includes a secondary normal idol). It's an interesting concept, and I guess this adds to the meta-game. Not sure how I really feel about it until I see it in practice, but it seems like a simple "gently caress you!" "No, gently caress you!" deal. At a certain point, they could just have not hidden another normal idol?... I guess the rub comes out in if the person who found it will tell their tribe or not what they really found. Also this just gives another chance for tribal drama. It's hard to imagine the Nullify-A-Played-Idol idol playing out in an entertaining way. A (regular) idol played correctly is very rare and exciting, so to have that drama undercut by the majority nullifying the idol seems like a bad idea.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:13
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Propaganda Machine posted:1. Makes sense. I don't think they got much out of that rule change, and, as we just recently bitched about, 34 had too many X-factors from production. With respect to 2, in another article it said that if whoever finds the idol is on the tribe that wins immunity, they have to immediately will it to someone on the losing tribe. So there's already a 1 in 6 shot it gets played, much higher if you factor in that if it gets willed to someone they'll probably send it to an obvious weak link on that tribe. And even if that weak link isn't the target, they might be in the minority so would play it on whoever the target is anyway. I mostly hate this twist because it's impossible to strategize around-- not only will most players not even know this idol is in the game, but even if they figure out that it's in the game they can't really do anything to fight it except do exactly what the holder wants because it's a super idol, especially because the rules about how the super idol work with respect to re-votes is unclear (I won't ramble about the specifics, but even a 2-2-2 split would fail if super idols can be played after re-votes). And since only the holder of the idol knows the exact rules, even if the super idol CAN'T be played after a re-vote the holder can just claim that it can and no one will be able to call the bluff, and then there's no way to split votes. It seems like if the idol was just a regular idol that expires after the first TC, and if Probst just warns them that "one round idols are a thing this season, so strategize accordingly," you could get a much more entertaining outcome out of this twist. As it stands, it seems very likely someone is about to be the first person voted out because of a magic idol with new unknowable rules.
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Sep 1, 2017 03:43
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ApplesandOranges posted:AU Survivor up to the last episode: And once again, the twist is fine in theory but terrible in execution. Mutinies are interesting, and I like the idea of a twist where exactly one person needs to mutiny and no more than one can. The problem, as usual with Australian Survivor, is misleading the players into thinking they're voting someone out and thereby punishing good players for actually planning for a vote off. All these twists do is encourage conservative gameplay, where you can never try to orchestrate any big move in this game because you can't actually trust that the host is telling the truth about what the purpose of Tribal Council or even the purpose of your vote actually is. It would be very unfair and unsatisfying if Sarah winds up leaving next because of this, almost an exact mirror of when Phoebe went home last season in a similar spot after a similar twist screwed her for a similar reason.
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Sep 11, 2017 05:23
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:(Comment on Australian Survivor Episode 13) At least this time they didn't take it all the way to the point of having the players vote before telling them it was a fake vote. As it is, they just went to tribal aired out their laundry and then ended up not having to vote. Still sucks for those trying to put everything into that vote, but it's not that big of a deal to be like, nope we actually aren't voting tonight. (Spoilers through Australian Survivor Ep 15) While actually holding a fake vote is definitely worse, it's definitely a big deal for production to be lying to the players. Even if this particular example didn't seem to really screw over any major player, last season in a very similar situation Phoebe *was* screwed over. In one of the last pre-merge votes, Phoebe had the votes lined up to get Kristy out and when the vote was cancelled by the kidnap-Sue twist, that gave Kristy an extra 3 days to figure out what happened and turn the situation around on Phoebe. And even if nobody got screwed this time (and probably Odette would disagree with that), the cumulative effects of the players being unable to trust production will be very bad in the longrun. If I'm playing some future season of Australian Survivor, I'm much less likely to set up any sort of carefully orchestrated blindside because ~20% of the time the vote I think is happening is not actually real and the downside of my blindside being exposed and my game being ruined in the next round is probably too high.
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Sep 20, 2017 05:08
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STAC Goat posted:I hated Jay but for the life of me I can't remember why. I wouldn't go as far to say that I hate Jay but I do think he is pretty overrated. I think he only stood out so much because all of the major characters that season were dorky anxious superfans (Zeke, Adam, Hannah, David), and he and Ken were the only major figures that didn't fit that archetype. Of the two, I think Ken would be a much more interesting returnee since he has no obvious analogue to a player from another season, whereas Jay has several better iterations of the same "aggressive-playing, idol-finding, douchey cool kid with a charming gentler side" archetype (Malcolm, namely).
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Sep 21, 2017 15:10
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