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Mind Playin' Tricks On Me and New Jack City used to scare the gently caress out of me. Similarly I could vibe with People Under The Stairs right away but not Candyman until I was much older.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:46
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Mind Playin' Tricks On Me was one of my fav videos growing up cause it was legit disturbing, also my fav guitar loop of all time. Also, wait til they see Tales from the Hood. There was some article making its rounds a few months ago about Get Out that was praising the "recent trend" of, get this, what the author called "allegorical horror films (re: It Follows, Get Out, the Babadook)."
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Apr 12, 2017 18:52
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"You have to prove that Chris believes his art to be representative of his blackness in order to argue that selling his art to a white man would cause the loss of blackness." I just did. But I can add even more detail to the plot synopsis. For example: Chris literally asks Root why Root targets black people. Chris and Rod literally believe that there is a white conspiracy to steal black essence. Chris literally believes that he will be turned into Andrew Logan King and forget how to fistbump, etc. Chris believes that Root is a part of this conspiracy. That is why he burns Root to death.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:53
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SMG you are the sole reason I am unbookmarking this thread. I hope you're happy.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:55
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RCarr posted:SMG you are the sole reason I am unbookmarking this thread. I hope you're happy. I do not actually exist.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:56
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Also, wait til they see Tales from the Hood. There was some article making its rounds a few months ago about Get Out that was praising the "recent trend" of, get this, what the author called "allegorical horror films (re: It Follows, Get Out, the Babadook)." I keep thinking about that article because it's such a funny assertion to make. Don't get me started on Tales From The Hood, though.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:57
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Also, wait til they see Tales from the Hood. There was some article making its rounds a few months ago about Get Out that was praising the "recent trend" of, get this, what the author called "allegorical horror films (re: It Follows, Get Out, the Babadook)." "Wokeness" is a symptom of a larger disease.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:58
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Mind Playin' Tricks On Me and New Jack City used to scare the gently caress out of me. Similarly I could vibe with People Under The Stairs right away but not Candyman until I was much older. I need to revisit New Jack City. I was just reading a interview with van Peebles from a few years ago and he's got a couple of answers where he, in part, says 'if poor black people realized that selling drugs and chasing dollars was bad, then..." It's weirdly out of place with the rest of his critique of structural economic inequalities. Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:There was some article making its rounds a few months ago about Get Out that was praising the "recent trend" of, get this, what the author called "allegorical horror films (re: It Follows, Get Out, the Babadook)." 'Horror films have never been social commentary until 2015' is the hottest and wokest of takes. SuperMechagodzilla posted:"You have to prove that Chris believes his art to be representative of his blackness in order to argue that selling his art to a white man would cause the loss of blackness." And here you're just ignoring the film's timeline. Chris only asks that of Root after he watches the video and the procedure is revealed. Root then denies that race has anything to do with his motive at a point where there is no reason for him to pretend (and, as I've argued, is one representation of colorblind ideology re: people who claim publically to be anti-racist while ignoring that they benefit from racism). But more to the point: you still have not supported your claim that Chris believes his photography to be an essential expression of his blackness. You seem to only make that assumption because Chris is black. I don't know your motives or thought process, but this is a common societal assumption that black artists only do "black" art.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:13
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i am the bird posted:I need to revisit New Jack City. I was just reading a interview with van Peebles from a few years ago and he's got a couple of answers where he, in part, says 'if poor black people realized that selling drugs and chasing dollars was bad, then..." It's weirdly out of place with the rest of his critique of structural economic inequalities. NJC wouldn't be what it is without those contradictions. You should give it a rewatch. i am the bird posted:But more to the point: you still have not supported your claim that Chris believes his photography to be an essential expression of his blackness. You seem to only make that assumption because Chris is black. The neo-soul montage of his artwork at the beginning expresses this, but the joke is the pullback to his apartment and it just looks like he could've bought it from Pier 1 Imports.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:18
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What do we actually see of Chris's photography? Been long enough that I don't feel quite confident in my memory, but I think we see a couple of photos. edit: HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The neo-soul montage of his artwork at the beginning Okay, yeah, this fits with my general memory.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:20
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I remember seeing a photo of a pregnant black woman's stomach and I think a picture of a black kid in front of an apartment building - pictures a white gallery owner would probably say demonstrated an amazing sense of "soul".HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The neo-soul montage of his artwork at the beginning expresses this, but the joke is the pullback to his apartment and it just looks like he could've bought it from Pier 1 Imports. That was the high point of the movie for me. You can extrapolate everything from those lovely metal stools he has at his fake-industrial breakfast counter.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:24
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To take that totally seriously is making an argument that the script isn't that witty. Like, are you supposed to take that totally seriously and think "oh he's like Gordon Parks!" If it happened in something like Art School Confidential, you would recognize that kind of thing as poking fun at a cliche.Magic Hate Ball posted:I remember seeing a photo of a pregnant black woman's stomach and I think a picture of a black kid in front of an apartment building - pictures a white gallery owner would probably say demonstrated an amazing sense of "soul". There are so many movies that have self-serious "arty" characters that are just sort of middlebrow and banal. It's a wrinkle of Chris' character that I like, he feels more like a person I've met before (or recognize myself in) rather than just a stand in for a black man. That's why the NCAA thing later in the movie works. It's not that "any black man will do", she's not just looking for "Blackmon", as she jokingly calls him. She's trying again with a different type, just cutting to the chase and picking someone she think won't mind or question anything. She's deciding that humoring Chris really wasn't worth it anyway, and in that even more familiar reactionary liberal way, that stereotypes probably exist for a reason. That's more like the kind of thing Key and Peele are good at, not just the surface level stuff but nasty little jabs at liberals. The "would've voted for Obama a third time!" thing is an eye roller, a rib tickler, but the fear deep down that this white woman is just trying you on because she can is a lot darker. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I do not actually exist. Why is this schtick amusing to anyone?
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Apr 12, 2017 19:37
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:To take that totally seriously is making an argument that the script isn't that witty. Like, are you supposed to take that totally seriously and think "oh he's like Gordon Parks!" If it happened in something like Art School Confidential, you would recognize that kind of thing as poking fun at a cliche. Yeah, he's absolutely middlebrow - inoffensive, really.    and then you cut to:  I mean, lmao at the dove flying between two tenement buildings or whatever. And then you cut to her looking at the donuts:  The fact that Chris is a bland photographer works on a handful of levels and I really like all of them.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:47
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i am the bird posted:And here you're just ignoring the film's timeline. Chris only asks that of Root after he watches the video and the procedure is revealed. Root then denies that race has anything to do with his motive at a point where there is no reason for him to pretend (and, as I've argued, is one representation of colorblind ideology re: people who claim publically to be anti-racist while ignoring that they benefit from racism). I wrote that Chris believes he is targeted for being black. This paragraph does not disprove what I have written. In fact, you emphasize that Root is indeed trying profit off of Chris's identity. Then you rephrased the question back into a statement: "You still have not supported your claim that Chris believes his photography to be an essential expression of his blackness." I just did. But I can add even more detail. For example: when Chris is sent to the 'sunken place' and reduced to a disembodied gaze, he is paradoxically still embodied - still black. This is literally what Chris perceives his essence as being.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:49
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Like I'm 100% certain all of that imagery has been in a Hype Williams video at some point, each on the screen for less than half a second. The idea that you're supposed to take 'Chris is a really serious artist' from it is kinda funny.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:54
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I feel like the comments about Chris' apartment say a lot more about the people making them then they do about the intentions of the movie.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:57
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Escobarbarian posted:I feel like the comments about Chris' apartment say a lot more about the people making them then they do about the intentions of the movie. What do you believe were the intentions of the movie? What led you to this belief?
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Apr 12, 2017 19:59
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Escobarbarian posted:I feel like the comments about Chris' apartment say a lot more about the people making them then they do about the intentions of the movie. What's it say, then?
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Apr 12, 2017 20:00
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It seems to me that most people who argue against SMG are at a disadvantage because they are arguing to prove him wrong rather than to assert any particular view of their own (probably because--an implicit point in a lot of his debates--their own view is not thoroughly explored or understood). His ideology is pretty transparent and he makes his bias as plain as day; often I can't say the same for most other posters (including myself).
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Apr 12, 2017 20:01
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Like I'm 100% certain all of that imagery has been in a Hype Williams video at some point, each on the screen for less than half a second. The idea that you're supposed to take 'Chris is a really serious artist' from it is kinda funny. I'd like to think it's part of the joke, and that it underlines that he's self-consciously producing his art from a black perspective for a white audience, rather than as an act of pure unconscious instinct, which would tie in to the anxieties that are explored in the rest of the movie.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:03
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I believe the apartment is just intended as a normal apartment that someone doing fairly well for themselves in New York City would have. There's plenty of political imagery in this movie but that isn't part of it imo - the idea that the apartment is meant to have some bland white Starbucks drinker style to it and that therefore Chris is a sellout seems completely invented. It's literally just an apartment.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:04
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No way, that apartment is some cookie-cutter bullshit, there's so much of it here in Seattle and it has everything to do with gentrification ("reclaimed industrial spaces").
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Apr 12, 2017 20:09
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Escobarbarian posted:I believe the apartment is just intended as a normal apartment that someone doing fairly well for themselves in New York City would have. There's plenty of political imagery in this movie but that isn't part of it imo - the idea that the apartment is meant to have some bland white Starbucks drinker style to it and that therefore Chris is a sellout seems completely invented. It's literally just an apartment. If I was doing well for myself in NY it's not the apartment I'd have.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:10
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It has like, a bed and walls and a breakfast bar and a desk. I truly don't get how it can be seen as "cookie-cutter bullshit".
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Apr 12, 2017 20:13
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Escobarbarian posted:I believe the apartment is just intended as a normal apartment that someone doing fairly well for themselves in New York City would have. There's plenty of political imagery in this movie but that isn't part of it imo - the idea that the apartment is meant to have some bland white Starbucks drinker style to it and that therefore Chris is a sellout seems completely invented. It's literally just an apartment. That's what you come back with, eh. Well, alright.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:13
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It looks like an airbnb that's described as "urban".
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Apr 12, 2017 20:18
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The neo-soul montage of his artwork at the beginning expresses this, but the joke is the pullback to his apartment and it just looks like he could've bought it from Pier 1 Imports. Right but the art isn't the 'essence' of his blackness and selling it doesn't make him less black. It does require turning over his artistic autonomy; he refuses, so Root tries to steal his body. In the reading of Chris's paranoid construction of Root the literal bodysnatcher, why is Root adamant that race is irrelevant? SuperMechagodzilla posted:I wrote that Chris believes he is targeted for being black. This paragraph does not disprove what I have written. In fact, you emphasize that Root is indeed trying profit off of Chris's identity. Root only profits off Chris's blackness because being black makes him a target for the Armitage family. Root EXPLICITLY rejects racial biotruths. quote:For example: when Chris is sent to the 'sunken place' and reduced to a disembodied gaze, he is paradoxically still embodied - still black. This is literally what Chris perceives his essence as being. The representation of his essence is his corporeal form, which is not paradoxical at all.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:19
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It's not an essential expression of his blackness because he's white gazing himself.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:21
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i am the bird posted:Right but the art isn't the 'essence' of his blackness and selling it doesn't make him less black. It does require turning over his artistic autonomy; he refuses, so Root tries to steal his body. Yes. That's what's being described, the paranoia of "stolen black essence". If that doesn't represent this "black essence", what does? The fact that he can dap somebody up?
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Apr 12, 2017 20:22
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Chris is like an electron that's observing itself.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:28
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Yes. That's what's being described, the paranoia of "stolen black essence". If that doesn't represent this "black essence", what does? The fact that he can dap somebody up? So, to complete the reading, Chris constructs Root the bodysnatcher to affirm the paranoia of 'stolen black essence' but then imagines that the bodysnatcher explicitly rejects the idea of black essence because [reasons].
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Apr 12, 2017 20:28
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Chris is like an electron that's observing itself. Whenever I picture myself, I think of an amorphous array of colors and numbers. I would literally never think of my body. That's crazy.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:31
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Chris is afraid that white people will exploit his body [because he is black]. versus Chris is afraid that if white people exploit his body, he'll lose his blackness.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:35
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Replace versus with "and".i am the bird posted:Whenever I picture myself, I think of an amorphous array of colors and numbers. I would literally never think of my body. That's crazy. One of the main concepts the film works with is the question of how to act purely as oneself, without giving ourselves an agenda or trying to sell ourselves in some way. The answer is we usually don't (there are always external influences) but Chris perceives this as a literal conspiracy, rather than just a function of our psychological need to be accepted.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:39
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i am the bird posted:Whenever I picture myself, I think of an amorphous array of colors and numbers. I would literally never think of my body. That's crazy. Strong disagree
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Apr 12, 2017 20:41
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i am the bird posted:Chris is afraid that white people will exploit his body [because he is black]. This is simply characterization so I don't see what the problem is. The film is much worse if Chris is just a woke totem because you end up concluding that he should've taken the red pill or some such nonsense. More to the point, if you insist that everything in the film can be taken at face value - if you argue that its substance is on the surface, the obvious conclusion is that black men shouldn't date white women. I really doubt the biracial Jordan Peele, who is married to Chelsea Peretti, fervently believes this. So what's he getting at? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 20:50
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I have to admit, one of the reasons I like seeing alternate takes on this movie is because for some bizarre reason people are acting like this is the first socially conscious horror movie with a black lead character, which makes me suspicious about the perspective they're coming at it from. Have they never heard of 'Mind Playin' Tricks On Me'? Welcome Home, Brother Charles? New Jack City? Double feature with The Intruder.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:21
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Escobarbarian posted:I believe the apartment is just intended as a normal apartment that someone doing fairly well for themselves in New York City would have. There's plenty of political imagery in this movie but that isn't part of it imo - the idea that the apartment is meant to have some bland white Starbucks drinker style to it and that therefore Chris is a sellout seems completely invented. It's literally just an apartment. It really doesn't matter if the set designer totally shares this design sensibility and sees this upper middle class bourgie aesthetic as aspirational. In fact you're right that it's utterly typical of a well to do New Yorker, but it's weird you think that contradicts what MHB and HUNDU are saying. The apartment is characterization of Chris.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:23
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So if he was "legit" black his apartment would be different? You get how I think that assertion is kind of weird, right?
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Apr 12, 2017 21:27
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