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i am the bird posted:Social programs tend to be paternalistic because they are designed by people with power and paternalism is one way to maintain power, as you indicated earlier. This is a basic leftist critique of social democracy as an institution. It's not advocacy for libertarianism. That's why the critique is of the system rather than its symptom. Otherwise you end up inadvertently advocating the idea that social programs are incompatible with antiracism.
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Mar 20, 2017 22:02
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i am the bird posted:Yeah, no poo poo. That's why I've been talking about the people creating them and not the inherent idea of social programs. So then, again, what Chris stands to lose is something he's mostly afraid he never had. That's the subtext of his relationship with Rose. Why are they a couple in the first place?
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Mar 20, 2017 23:00
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Magic Hate Ball posted:It's much more deeply hosed up that the only way to become a successful person is to become white (which is pretty literally true) than it is to become white - becoming white is just a symptom of a more troubling illness. DeimosRising posted:Peele also already wrote another movie that's extremely concerned with how middle class African Americans relate to "authentic" ghetto Blackness. It's played for laughs but there's a lot of tension in Key and Peele's scenes arguing about whether they ever say "nigga" or listen to the "right" music. Yep. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 23:13
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elise the great posted:Seriously, though. Anybody got any interesting thoughts on the plate helmet? It's one of the things that gives me a "hmmmm this probably implies something" vibe. Same reason he has a dirtstache. He's a manchild.
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Mar 21, 2017 00:13
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K. Waste posted:Kid imagines that he's Paul, but really he's Peter. Now that's funny.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is the case for many people, who repeatedly insist that there are only two alternatives: "either everything real or everything is a dream." This means, put simply, that you cannot critique the ideology of the film. It's ideological universe is the only possible reality. This is partly why I believe They Live is required viewing if you like horror or science fiction films. Not only is it exemplary of both, but it's "literally" about how to watch genre films.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:53
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Speaking of, you have to give Bradley Whitford a huge shoutout for being perfectly tweedy. What an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:04
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Yeah that was a great turn. I also love how they dressed Logan up as an old person, complete with boater hat (the most racist hat). Big props to the costume department on this. Yeah, it had to be a straw boater, minstrel style. Anything else and it wouldn't have tracked as not his style. It's a really fine line too, because it's an outfit I think, say, Andre Benjamin could pull off without too many changes. But it makes Logan look like a fool. Chris also has "comfy clothes", which is another insight into his potential future as a cornball suburbanite.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:38
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i am the bird posted:edit: n/m, not going to participate anymore. This man isn't a "conservative" but it turns out you don't need to be one to be a critic: http://www.okayplayer.com/news/okaymuva-002-going-in-on-jordan-peele-get-out.html "The film seems to be made inside of its own fear of white outrage and is afraid to name a truth that would have truly made it a radical, decolonizing work that caused discomfort and transformative conversation. As the credits rolled for Get Out, I asked myself once again, what was the purpose of this film? First and foremost, it is a capitalist move to revitalize the horror film genre in ways that coincide with an interest of a generation more concerned with social justice and white supremacy. We are a generation not as interested in ghosts and chainsaws, and Jordan Peele saw this vacancy and inserted it with what we really are interested in, in order to profit and perpetuate his stardom. Get Out is not a moment of social justice, it is a moment of a marketing / advertising / capitalistic observation and educated risk that has paid off."
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Mar 22, 2017 14:00
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i am the bird posted:Sure, but I was asking if anyone had seen specific conservative critiques. Thank you for being condescending, though! You're welcome.
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Mar 22, 2017 15:37
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"...once it is revealed that the girlfriend is complicit in the terrorization, it makes the film become an extreme mockery that white people can locate outside of themselves and never do any type of real, political survey of themselves and their practices and ideas." This is the immediate line of attack Armond White takes and the most interesting, I feel.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:48
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Magic Hate Ball posted:It's an extremely unthreatening movie that white liberals are going to self-congratulatedly pat themselves on the back for appreciating. What makes it interesting is the overidentificaiton with that point of view, though.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:16
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I mean white liberals love Do The Right Thing too but I don't think it reflects poorly on that movie The point is not whether it reflects well on that movie.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:26
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:What is it, then? So far that's how it reads. Describing its particular resonance is part of discussion. This has been puzzled over (as you know) by Spike Lee himself as to why self described liberals have a particular reaction to Do The Right Thing.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:42
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I can't remember who said it (probably Lee himself) but I like the quote that's like "why are white audiences always more upset about the loss of property than the loss of life?" That was Lee, yeah.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:20
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Sir Kodiak posted:Like, to use your example, if Logan was trying to sell "intellectual hip hop," and wanted to be black in order to make it seem more authentic, I'd see it. You could totally make that movie, white people stealing black bodies so that they could say the n-word. This movie is so clearly not that, that I don't know why you'd want to torture the idea of what's essential to a culture just to make the movie about cultural appropriation. This is actually a quick aside in The Invisibles.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:56
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It's really rewarding to go in and bite chunks out of it once in a while.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:46
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Lord_Magmar posted:As someone who lives off and on with grandparents they actually do tend to enjoy doing menial tasks like serving food and gardening, because it gives them something to do that isn't sitting around doing nothing. The Visit has a fantastic take on this.
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Mar 25, 2017 13:34
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:“You know, we fought long and hard for integration…But I tell you, Harry, I’ve come on a realization that really deeply troubles me. I’ve come to the realization that I think we may be integrating into a burning house.” Hahaha.
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Apr 6, 2017 14:18
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HookedOnChthonics posted:and a gif of jordan peele to keep this even minimally relevant for the new page I've always wondered about Keanu, it didn't really seem to make a splash. Will people be talking about it 15 years from now like Super Troopers or something?
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Apr 11, 2017 14:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My rewrite of the ending of the film: Rose helps Chris escape with the keys and says "thank gosh we got away from my racist family, and back to our comfortable Starbucks apartment!" Then the door opens to loose the tidal-wave of blood from The Shining. It should be the ending to Thriller, with Chris comforting Rose, suggesting they go get something to eat, then turning around to reveal reptiloid eyes.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:39
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Magic Hate Ball posted:And the end credits slam up over ironic Jewish klezmer music. Oh man.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ok yeah that's better. I have to admit, one of the reasons I like seeing alternate takes on this movie is because for some bizarre reason people are acting like this is the first socially conscious horror movie with a black lead character, which makes me suspicious about the perspective they're coming at it from. Have they never heard of 'Mind Playin' Tricks On Me'? Welcome Home, Brother Charles? New Jack City?
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Apr 12, 2017 18:41
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Mind Playin' Tricks On Me and New Jack City used to scare the gently caress out of me. Similarly I could vibe with People Under The Stairs right away but not Candyman until I was much older.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:46
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Also, wait til they see Tales from the Hood. There was some article making its rounds a few months ago about Get Out that was praising the "recent trend" of, get this, what the author called "allegorical horror films (re: It Follows, Get Out, the Babadook)." I keep thinking about that article because it's such a funny assertion to make. Don't get me started on Tales From The Hood, though.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:57
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i am the bird posted:I need to revisit New Jack City. I was just reading a interview with van Peebles from a few years ago and he's got a couple of answers where he, in part, says 'if poor black people realized that selling drugs and chasing dollars was bad, then..." It's weirdly out of place with the rest of his critique of structural economic inequalities. NJC wouldn't be what it is without those contradictions. You should give it a rewatch. i am the bird posted:But more to the point: you still have not supported your claim that Chris believes his photography to be an essential expression of his blackness. You seem to only make that assumption because Chris is black. The neo-soul montage of his artwork at the beginning expresses this, but the joke is the pullback to his apartment and it just looks like he could've bought it from Pier 1 Imports.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:18
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To take that totally seriously is making an argument that the script isn't that witty. Like, are you supposed to take that totally seriously and think "oh he's like Gordon Parks!" If it happened in something like Art School Confidential, you would recognize that kind of thing as poking fun at a cliche.Magic Hate Ball posted:I remember seeing a photo of a pregnant black woman's stomach and I think a picture of a black kid in front of an apartment building - pictures a white gallery owner would probably say demonstrated an amazing sense of "soul". There are so many movies that have self-serious "arty" characters that are just sort of middlebrow and banal. It's a wrinkle of Chris' character that I like, he feels more like a person I've met before (or recognize myself in) rather than just a stand in for a black man. That's why the NCAA thing later in the movie works. It's not that "any black man will do", she's not just looking for "Blackmon", as she jokingly calls him. She's trying again with a different type, just cutting to the chase and picking someone she think won't mind or question anything. She's deciding that humoring Chris really wasn't worth it anyway, and in that even more familiar reactionary liberal way, that stereotypes probably exist for a reason. That's more like the kind of thing Key and Peele are good at, not just the surface level stuff but nasty little jabs at liberals. The "would've voted for Obama a third time!" thing is an eye roller, a rib tickler, but the fear deep down that this white woman is just trying you on because she can is a lot darker. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:29
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Like I'm 100% certain all of that imagery has been in a Hype Williams video at some point, each on the screen for less than half a second. The idea that you're supposed to take 'Chris is a really serious artist' from it is kinda funny.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:54
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Escobarbarian posted:I feel like the comments about Chris' apartment say a lot more about the people making them then they do about the intentions of the movie. What's it say, then?
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Apr 12, 2017 20:00
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Escobarbarian posted:I believe the apartment is just intended as a normal apartment that someone doing fairly well for themselves in New York City would have. There's plenty of political imagery in this movie but that isn't part of it imo - the idea that the apartment is meant to have some bland white Starbucks drinker style to it and that therefore Chris is a sellout seems completely invented. It's literally just an apartment. That's what you come back with, eh. Well, alright.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:13
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i am the bird posted:Right but the art isn't the 'essence' of his blackness and selling it doesn't make him less black. It does require turning over his artistic autonomy; he refuses, so Root tries to steal his body. Yes. That's what's being described, the paranoia of "stolen black essence". If that doesn't represent this "black essence", what does? The fact that he can dap somebody up?
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Apr 12, 2017 20:22
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i am the bird posted:Chris is afraid that white people will exploit his body [because he is black]. This is simply characterization so I don't see what the problem is. The film is much worse if Chris is just a woke totem because you end up concluding that he should've taken the red pill or some such nonsense. More to the point, if you insist that everything in the film can be taken at face value - if you argue that its substance is on the surface, the obvious conclusion is that black men shouldn't date white women. I really doubt the biracial Jordan Peele, who is married to Chelsea Peretti, fervently believes this. So what's he getting at? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 20:50
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DeimosRising posted:It really doesn't matter if the set designer totally shares this design sensibility and sees this upper middle class bourgie aesthetic as aspirational. In fact you're right that it's utterly typical of a well to do New Yorker, but it's weird you think that contradicts what MHB and HUNDU are saying. The apartment is characterization of Chris. I wouldn't say "utterly typical" but "aspirational" is dead on. It's bougie but in a really specific way. Stunting for the 'gram, as the kids would say. Escobarbarian posted:So if he was "legit" black his apartment would be different? You get how I think that assertion is kind of weird, right? Dude nobody's apartment looks like this. It's how an apartment looks in a catalog.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:30
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I actually agree with the bulk of that, i am the bird, but no way in HELL am I quoting it. DeimosRising posted:Yeah that was a clumsy thought on my part, it's very typical in concept, but the execution is a fantasy, like the apartment in the background of a commercial. A catalogue apartment. It's like an AirBNB or something.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:49
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well why not posted:These arguments about his apartment are crazy. Have you guys literally never been in a nice apartment? It's big for NY, but aside from that it's not too far off how a lot of people live. I know people who live in places that look similar to that. I also know people who dress as neatly as Chris. Where is it being said that these places don't exist?
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Apr 13, 2017 16:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:(In any case, I'd question how people are reconciling 'generic normal apartment' with the large photos of pregnant black women adorning the walls, etc. Is everyone familiar with Belly?) I don't know if Chris would ever put on Gummo for mood. Hard to say.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:40
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I saw that advertised on On Demand and wondered what the hell they were talking about.
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May 16, 2017 21:32
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