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duckmaster posted:A left-wing party didn't win successive national elections in the UK until 2001, France was governed by right wing administrations until 1981 (and their brief flirtation with socialism ended in 1986), the centre-right Christian Democrat Party won most seats in all but one of every West German election since the end of the Second World War, the centre-right Christian democrats were never out of government in the Netherlands between 1914 and 1994 and Spain was governed by an actual literal real life fascist until 1979 (when the people elected a, you guessed it, centre-right Christian Democrat party). I'll let you take a wild guess which party governed Italy from 1946 until 1996, although here's a clue: it starts with "centre right" and ends with "Christian Democrat". He's overgeneralising but this isn't responsive to his point at all what makes the US seem like wacko rightist land to the rest of the first world isn't the frequency with which the party of the left holds power vs. the party of the right, it's that certain stuff that other rich countries take for granted (workplace protections, a non-horrendous healthcare system) are out on the left fringe of american politics like, britain has a lot of conservative governments, and they've done their part to undermine the NHS, but almost no tory would dare to come out against it. and it's the same story with the right wing in pretty much all rich countries w/r/t their country's flavour of UHC
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Mar 2, 2017 01:27
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^this. Your left wing party could be our right wing party if they were less corporate biased, and your right wing party is basically a slightly chilled out Taliban. Lol at the cold war years being your example, most of the rest of the world thought the USA and the USSR were both dickheads who were going to destroy the world needlessly.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:10
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whiter than a Wilco show posted:most of the rest of the world thought the USA and the USSR were both dickheads who were going to destroy the world needlessly.
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Mar 2, 2017 07:14
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whiter than a Wilco show posted:This is what happens when you make children grow up praying to a flag every day in school. They end up assuming the area they happened to fall out of their mum in as a key part of their self worth and identity, cry when someone says "please stop blowing up weddings in a country you're allies with because of an attack which killed less people than the CIA kills in an average month 16 years ago", and buy big fat truck nuts all day, every day. I'm not a huge murrikkka fan but you might just be a dick dude. Especially given NZ and Oz are by far the americiest countries outside of the states. Racist fatties that drive everywhere and stole all their land from indigenous peoples. Guarantee you if your country had 300 million and the US didn't it's NZ that'd be bombing poo poo and stationing troops everywhere, guaran-loving-tee it. Congratulations on somehow managing to be from a place that out-Americas Canada. vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 07:38
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Hey, I just wanted to step in for the US and say that there's usually a huge difference between United States politics and the people of the United States. A lot of citizens are not happy with the way our government works, but the reason there's a strong divide is because there is an enormous geographical difference between left and right voters. Segregation is super real here. The more rural the country gets, the more right it votes. Cities, suburbs, and metropolitan areas tend very left, even in places like Texas, but in varying degrees. Blacks who would likely vote left in rural areas are blocked for a lot of reasons, like economic segregation and a total lack of funding or systems in place to encourage education, voting, etc. This means states where voters may actually be majority leftist states may vote extremely conservatively. Minorities came out in droves for Obama in a way that did not happen for the white rear end crackers in the 2016 election. Rural America is now also becoming very poor, and they are baring their teeth. This is something the wealthier democrats didn't even really know about and were not ready for. These people are not doing well economically, and feel threatened by immigrants and poorer people, who may work for lower wages. Trump sounds like a godsend to these people, who aren't satisfied with the Democratic answer of "go to tech school and get a degree in the sciences field" (I'm not making that up). They are in a prime position to be scammed, and they absolutely will be. So I think you've got a bunch of detached, middle class leftists who want people to pay more taxes for a bunch of services for everybody, and I honestly think a lot of these heavily segregated, advantaged (but still poor AF) white dudes do not want to be bottom-rung and are willing to suicide pact to the death lovely legislation so they won't have to pay for their black neighbor's "drugs", or whatever lame racist excuse I hear that day for not being pro universal healthcare. White supremacy is really real in this country, and it's not good. Metropolitan United States is way more integrated racially. You get "pockets" of certain cultures, like chinatown or whatever. After a generation or two, most of them don't even speak their parent's languages. Everything's way better than it was "back home" and I honestly don't think a lot of democrats vote. A surprising number of Asian and Russian immigrants vote conservative, because they come from extremely communist countries, and want to vote far away from that. I think as a population, well integrated, non-racist people are horribly underrepresented, and that's the only reason they're losing. They are very densely located, and do not really leave or spread out. You can make the case against the electoral college, but I won't. I know it's hot-button all over the States, Democrats want the popular vote (meaning they'll win) Republicans want the Electoral College, because they'll win. People dress it up, bluster, talk poo poo, but it comes down to the fact that neither party thinks the other one's got the answer and no one really wants to go along with each other's ideas. It loving sucks, and I think a lot of Americans really feel the same way I do about it. TL,DR: Political factionalism is tied directly to economics in this country, and all of it is hosed up. Nobody likes each other or what's happening. Everybody thinks everybody else is dumb.
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Mar 2, 2017 09:58
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duckmaster posted:The myth that the developed world had left-wing governments at the height of the motherfucking Cold War is preposterously inplausible.  I never said that the period I was talking about was "at the height of the Cold War" I have no idea where you got that from, I wasn't referring to that period at all. I was responding to a poster who was claiming that the leftmost American politician was still to the right of politicians from other countries. There was a time when this generalization was close to true, mainly during the George W Bush years, when both parties in the US were dominated by moderate conservatives and much of the developed world was indeed to the left, and this became exaggerated by the US response to 9/11 and especially the Iraq war. But my point is that this situation is no longer the case, the American population has since then been pulled in more extreme directions and things have changed quite a bit in other countries since that time as well. Also please note that saying other countries are to the left of the US is not at all the same thing as saying they have "left wing governments". The UK was to the left of the US in many respects well before an actual left wing party attained power in 2001. Many other countries, even when a centre right party (in their context) was at the helm, still managed to have national healthcare and significant worker protections for example which in the US have traditionally been considered too "socialist" to be politically viable. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 10:37
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I'm an American living in Germany so I can only speak secondhand, but the general view I get from my coworkers is that we are poorly educated, arrogant, loud, rude and cheap. Of course they always add "oh but not you though" which I don't believe at all. Kinda chuckling to myself about Germans calling Americans 'loud' and 'rude'.
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Mar 2, 2017 14:24
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duckmaster posted:A left-wing party didn't win successive national elections in the UK until 2001, France was governed by right wing administrations until 1981 (and their brief flirtation with socialism ended in 1986), the centre-right Christian Democrat Party won most seats in all but one of every West German election since the end of the Second World War, the centre-right Christian democrats were never out of government in the Netherlands between 1914 and 1994 and Spain was governed by an actual literal real life fascist until 1979 (when the people elected a, you guessed it, centre-right Christian Democrat party). I'll let you take a wild guess which party governed Italy from 1946 until 1996, although here's a clue: it starts with "centre right" and ends with "Christian Democrat". but but, sweden!!!! also  at tony blair's labour being left wing
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Mar 2, 2017 20:21
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JnnyThndrs posted:Kinda chuckling to myself about Germans calling Americans 'loud' and 'rude'. If Americans are one thing, it's loving loud. At least when they're visiting other countries. Cheap though? Never heard that about Americans.
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Mar 3, 2017 12:14
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UK goon here. I lived in the US (in the middle of nowhere) for two years. My family has mixed thoughts on the country and its politics. My dad is quite left wing and says the Democrats are like our Conservatives, which is pretty much a common meme when trying to relate the politics of each country to each other. My mum is apolitical but hates Trump based on his appearance and actions. Because of this and the fact I had a poo poo time in the states, their opinion of it has gone down quite a bit in the last year. Everyone I know here thinks Donald Trump is a loving moron. The inauguration got broadcast in the break room at work and people made jokes about how he should be assassinated. This isn't a super left-wing workplace, although it's a bit more sensible than the last place (where there were Princess Diana truthers and the like). They don't uniformly think he is an actual fascist, some just think he's stupid and tasteless. In general, British people thought more highly of the US during the Obama presidency than before and after. I am from a Brexit heartland area (and currently work there in a low-status job), but went to a prestigious university in the South. I generally find that the above is true of both upper and working class British people. Occasionally you meet some nutjob, but even though some people can be quite racist and right wing in their own way, they generally think American right wingers are dumb and crazy. In fact the educated upper middle class people are usually more restrained in their condemnation, because they try to overthink everything, I guess. On the other hand, lots of aspects of US culture are beloved in the UK. People love US tv shows, for example, it's generally thought that they are better than UK programming. People love to take vacations there if they have the money, and show everyone pics of them in front of the empire state building or grand canyon. My supervisor was talking about how his dream is to live in New York City a while ago. My dad still wants to visit the Southern states because of his love of jazz and soul music. Some people apparently think that US confectionary isn't complete bullshit (they are wrong)- there are even specialty stores that sell American candy for an insane markup. There is sometimes a slight resentment about American culture becoming more dominant in the UK, mostly from old people though. Americans who come over here are usually received well, and seen as friendly and nice. The only thing is that sometimes people challenge them on poo poo like healthcare, religion*, and gun laws, which are virtually impossible to have the same emotional perspective on as a British person, and get surprised when the argument gets a bit heated. The gun thing is seen as a weird brain problem that otherwise normal Americans have. TL;DR: US politics is seen as insane (even by conservatives), but the culture and people are well-liked. *Obviously it's a Christian-majority country as well, but the specific type of evangelical Christianity that bred things like megachurches, Christian rock and fundamentalist pro-life stuff is seen as uniquely American.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:34
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Australian goon here. I think the USA is shithole, and was headed that way even before Mr Trump took over. You have flags in your schoolrooms which you train your kids to salute and swear blind allegiance to every day. You have no universal health care. You have to take out private loans at rapacious terms if you want tertiary education. All this while spending nearly $600 billion a year on the military, nearly three times as much as the next highest (China). You all carry firearms for no goddamn reason other than because you think it's a human right or something. You imprison a greater percentage of your population than any other country, and mostly for relatively harmless drug issues. You still have the death penalty. You still do not use the metric system. Your You're ignorant, badly educated, and yet loudly opinionated through no fault of your own, because your education system is garbage and the national narrative since time immemorial has been rabid jingoism. And, worse, you think you're the greatest country on earth, and that everyone else wants to live there, while you don't know how bad you have it. In my experience you've been lovely people individually, but by God your country is hosed up. e: my opinion is my own, and I do not claim it as representative of anyone else's. Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 23:08
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I can handle all that but don't talk poo poo about my fried food. 
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Mar 4, 2017 17:40
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American food is actually great and incredibly diverse.
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Mar 4, 2017 17:58
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Warning: Rambly tired phone post. Having spent time all over the US on Business, coming home to Ireland each time made me realize that the acceptable, often vitriolic stereotyping of Americans, was pretty off base. For example In West Virginia I took a week off to visit distant relatives. Yeah, they were rural coal workers with multiple firearms per person, and conservatives, but they were incredibly nice, friendly, well adjusted and capable of having friendly, intelligent conversations on subjects we didn't see eye to eye on. You get over the ingrained idea that a rednecky accent means stupid pretty quick when you realize everyone thinks mine means violent alcoholic. People are different everywhere, the US is large enough to have a hugely diverse range of cultures. I like you guys, though some might rub me the wrong way. But I feel the same about my neighborhood, my town, my county and the entire republic of Ireland. Also thank you for introducing me to grits 
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Mar 4, 2017 19:57
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Crazy how silly it is to reduce entire countries to a few stereotypes, huh? Now excuse me, I have to pick out a new Trump paint scheme for my scooter-mounted gun holster that will match my 256oz cup holder.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:05
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Rotten Cookies posted:Crazy how silly it is to reduce entire countries to a few stereotypes, huh? Your av triggers me so loving much.
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Mar 4, 2017 21:22
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Hyperlynx posted:
-an australian
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Mar 5, 2017 01:45
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Everything I remember about American culture was learned from Jerry Springer, Judge Judy and WWE. It's loudly, glitzy and commercialized to the extreme. The individual American people I have met have been great. Really nice welcoming people. The vast majority of your cultural exports however are rubbish. Every time I hear an American term used rather than the local one I want to physically hurt the speaker. I physically cringe, because it shows the only education that person has received is from US TV, Music and Movies. Using the word diaper should be grounds to legally murder someone.
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Mar 5, 2017 04:41
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Hyperlynx posted:You still do not use the metric system. this is a goofy criticism because americans use the metric system where it matters. in science, engineering, the military, etc. people use the metric system. metric is taught in american schools. all american food packaging is labeled in imperial and metric. it's just that in day to day life people still use imperial mostly because of cultural inerta and at that point who cares
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Mar 5, 2017 06:11
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I have seen people on this forum claim that Fahrenheit is so much better for talking about the weather with the dumbest arguments that in the end boil down to "I am used to this, so obviously it makes more sense to me". As if people in the rest of the world were constantly wondering if they should wear a jacket and gloves or shorts and a shirt at 21° Celsius or whatever.
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Mar 5, 2017 10:08
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I don't think Americans take criticism of their country very well, they always seem to have to jump to it's defense no matter the issue especially if it's a foreigner saying something about them. Also in general they seem to lack a good sense of self depreciating humor. Oh yea and the nationalism in even people who call themselves leftist is creepy as gently caress with all the flags and military worship.
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Mar 5, 2017 11:48
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your friend a dog posted:-an australian Seriously, though, why did you butt into someone else's thread that explicitly asks people for their opinions of the USA, just to get upset with peoples' opinions of the USA and be a big whiny baby?
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Mar 5, 2017 12:29
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Tarantula posted:I don't think Americans take criticism of their country very well, they always seem to have to jump to it's defense no matter the issue especially if it's a foreigner saying something about them. Also in general they seem to lack a good sense of self depreciating humor. Oh yea and the nationalism in even people who call themselves leftist is creepy as gently caress with all the flags and military worship. Doesn't matter how far left they are or how many grievances they have with their country and it's politics, "America is the greatest country in the world" is just an unshakable truth in their mind. It's weird.
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Mar 5, 2017 13:08
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I think its a bit of a generational thing. Anecdotally, a lot of baby boomers/older folks seem to genuinely believe that America is the best, full stop, and most younger people don't. I'm proud to be American and I'm not going to pretend to be Canadian or something when I travel abroad, but I'm not going to argue with you and act like my country is superior or anything like that. I think the only time I've been obnoxiously patriotic is during Olympics hockey.
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Mar 5, 2017 14:58
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Hyperlynx posted:Seriously, though, why did you butt into someone else's thread that explicitly asks people for their opinions of the USA, just to get upset with peoples' opinions of the USA and be a big whiny baby? It seemed like a joke
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Mar 5, 2017 19:18
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your friend a dog posted:-an australian OTOH if I were to pick a second America based on the character of its stereotypes and general political policy it'd be Australia. I don't pretend to be Canadian when I am abroad but I am not proud of my country and I don't have any faith in its systems. Individual Americans are alright, sometimes amazing, but beyond that... However, I'm an aspiring expat. It's just that everytime I get in a position to make that a tangible possiblity I've also managed to tie my self down with other things.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:19
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skit herre posted:Doesn't matter how far left they are or how many grievances they have with their country and it's politics, "America is the greatest country in the world" is just an unshakable truth in their mind. I'm an American, so maybe I've been brainwashed by my culture, but this has always seemed like a very strange criticism. Doesn't everyone believe this about their country (or nation, if that's different than their country)?
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Mar 5, 2017 19:59
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fantastic in plastic posted:I'm an American, so maybe I've been brainwashed by my culture, but this has always seemed like a very strange criticism. Doesn't everyone believe this about their country (or nation, if that's different than their country)? Nationalism is everywhere, but no, not in the same way. American triumphalist nationalism really is something else. E: So, pretty much every country has some (possibly quite silly) ideas about what makes their country special. America just tends to be way more grandiose and absurd about it than everywhere else. (America is the greatest nation to ever exist! [thing that would be completely unremarkable in any wealthy democracy] is uniquely American!) Jeb Bush 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 20:17
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Jamwad Hilder posted:I think its a bit of a generational thing. Anecdotally, a lot of baby boomers/older folks seem to genuinely believe that America is the best, full stop, and most younger people don't. I'm proud to be American and I'm not going to pretend to be Canadian or something when I travel abroad, but I'm not going to argue with you and act like my country is superior or anything like that. Jeb Bush 2012 posted:Nationalism is everywhere, but no, not in the same way. American triumphalist nationalism really is something else. Yeah I think a lot of that comes from the Cold War era. America GOOD, communism BAD. Millenials grew up with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and the internet, they're a lot more critical of America in my experience. It's mostly the older generations that get in a big huff about flags and lapel pins and blind nationalism. I lived in Europe for six months towards the end of the Bush years (2007) and my impression was most Europeans liked individual Americans and American entertainment but Bush was a shithead.
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Mar 5, 2017 20:35
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fantastic in plastic posted:I'm an American, so maybe I've been brainwashed by my culture, but this has always seemed like a very strange criticism. Doesn't everyone believe this about their country (or nation, if that's different than their country)? No, they don't.
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Mar 5, 2017 20:53
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Napoleon Bonaparty posted:
Quoted because this is unacceptable hate speech. "No war but class war" types are what gave us President Trump because you are all a bunch of racist shitheels willing to throw people of color under the bus as soon as you either get what you want or when the going gets tough (which usually amounts to the same thing). Economic justice for me but not for thee. Die in a fire.
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Mar 5, 2017 21:11
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...DnD sprung a leak?
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Mar 5, 2017 21:44
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^ I wish this type of dumbness was uniquely American 
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Mar 5, 2017 21:45
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Shbobdb posted:Quoted because this is unacceptable hate speech. "No war but class war" types are what gave us President Trump because you are all a bunch of racist shitheels willing to throw people of color under the bus as soon as you either get what you want or when the going gets tough (which usually amounts to the same thing). Economic justice for me but not for thee. I... What? You're reading a whole lot of words between the lines that aren't actually there. e: or it's Poe's Law. Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 23:33
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fantastic in plastic posted:I'm an American, so maybe I've been brainwashed by my culture, but this has always seemed like a very strange criticism. Doesn't everyone believe this about their country (or nation, if that's different than their country)? Not really, at least not in western countries. People are proud of their country, but this thinking of it being the greatest, no matter what, is not very common in my opinion. (And I bet a lot of people that read this are thinking "yeah, that's because the greatest country is obviously America") Americans also love to make jokes about stereotypes of countries (no problem with that) but get super defensive when the jokes on them. These opinions are obviously mostly only based on my personal experiences. Also I feel kind of lovely writing this stuff, I love the US and I would love to live there if I had the money
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Mar 6, 2017 00:00
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As an Australian who visited America (for two weeks) just a few months ago I am clearly the ultimate provider of opinions. American free-to-air TV is insane. It's not just all the cop shows, judge shows and BREAKING NEWS: EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE FOREVER. It's also the prescription drug ads running constantly, which is illegal in Australia. I felt like I'd stumbled into a goddamn dystopian nightmare vision of the future. Also you don't use 'chemists' as a word for 'pharmacy' and I confused people looking for painkillers, 2/10. The healthcare system is terrifying. I can go to a doctor for free any time I want down here and pick up almost any medication I need for $5-$20 just on medicare, which I'm automatically eligible for as an Australian citizen with no costs - I don't have private insurance. Hearing about people paying hundreds just to get looked at? Turning down basic treatment because of debt fears? It's insane. American cars are loving ginormous. We have a large SUV by Australian standards, and it might as well have been a dwarf in comparison to the average car on the road. Why is everyone driving monster trucks? The chorus of singers walking through the subway carriages in New York startled me, but it was neat (even if I can imagine it'd be annoying for natives). Our buskers aren't allowed on trains/etc. Everyone was very nice to me, even the cities with bad reputations. I resorted to grabbing strangers on the New York subway and demanding directions when I got lost and I got help, and when I lost my phone in Chicago I panicked and accosted a complete stranger due to his being bearded (long story) and got handed his phone and a small group of people trying to make helpful suggestions. Note: I am a white girl with a 'cute' foreign accent, this very likely does not apply to all foreigners. However, there was also a lot of condescension and ignorance. People not knowing that yes, we did in fact have the following: fast food, tall buildings, cities... I swear to god, half the people thought I lived on a ranch in the outback. When I accidentally stumbled into politics with a couple before a concert, I got told it's nice that Australia is neutral and un-involved in all the crazy world politics... telling them we were in Iraq as American allies, and have other issues, was a wee bit a w k w a r d. Also telling me my accent is cute. All the time. Over and over. And how cute it is. And how cute I pronounce those words. Also very pushy about being THE BEST COUNTRY and having THE BEST [insert everything here I heard about] and getting asked a lot that didn't I think America was GREAT?! American police are insanely intimidating. I have no issues passing by the ones over here in the city, they're chill, even when I've been involved in protests/drama. American police looked ready to loving cut you 24/7 and it creeped me out. Other things that were uncomfortable: Guns. Jesus, the gun fetish.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:12
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Oh, right, that too! The fact that you're legitimately scared of your cops. That is not a thing that's supposed to happen outside of a dictatorship. Cops here are great if you're not aboriginal. e: also boner confessor posted:this is a goofy criticism because americans use the metric system where it matters. in science, engineering, the military, etc. people use the metric system. metric is taught in american schools. all american food packaging is labeled in imperial and metric. it's just that in day to day life people still use imperial mostly because of cultural inerta and at that point who cares I mean, sure, it's not nearly in the same league as the other stuff, but the day-to-day usage is exactly why it's irritating for non-US people. I don't want to have to get out the converter on my phone just to understand what you're on about when you tell me you get X miles to the gallon, eat a pound of cake or drink an ounce of coffee. You might as well be talking Martian. Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 07:44
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Hyperlynx posted:Oh, right, that too! The fact that you're legitimately scared of your cops. That is not a thing that's supposed to happen outside of a dictatorship. Cops here are great if you're not aboriginal. Even more irritating when you order something like a coolbook and forget to check where the author is from..
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Mar 6, 2017 08:34
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skit herre posted:Doesn't matter how far left they are or how many grievances they have with their country and it's politics, "America is the greatest country in the world" is just an unshakable truth in their mind. Most of this is just garden variety nationalism, combined with the relative international isolation of most Americans. Part of it, at least for me (US goon), is that I can't help but roll my eyes a little when people from large and historically powerful European countries get sanctimonious while making critical comparisons between the US and their homeland on matters of foreign policy, military, politics, etc. It's like, the rise of US power, for all its myriad and accelerating faults, has coincided with what is indisputably a profound decrease in the overall incidence and severity of wars and conflict throughout the world, and a long period of steadily increasing global prosperity. At minimum, its been awhile since 40 loving million people died in a war. This follows the preceding several hundred years where the global seat(s) of power were concentrated here or there in this European empire or that. And when it was their turn they spent like 200% of their time making GBS threads the bed, repeatedly, with ever fouler and wetter shits until by sheer providence they all managed to poo poo together in such a spectacular, total, and correlated way that it doomed any prospects of a dominant Europe for at least a century. Only after being stripped of any semblance of global power, and being put in a geopolitical terrarium largely engineered by the US, do these countries finally become their modern benign selves. And then some guy from Germany (lmbo) is all "you savages spend so much of your GDP on the military!!"
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Mar 6, 2017 12:27
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Morbus posted:Most of this is just garden variety nationalism, combined with the relative international isolation of most Americans. Part of it, at least for me (US goon), is that I can't help but roll my eyes a little when people from large and historically powerful European countries get sanctimonious while making critical comparisons between the US and their homeland on matters of foreign policy, military, politics, etc. I think this helps emphasize my opinion Americans get really unnecessarily prickly about even mild criticism of their country and it's current/previous actions.
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Mar 6, 2017 13:54
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