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Tarantula posted:I think this helps emphasize my opinion Americans get really unnecessarily prickly about even mild criticism of their country and it's current/previous actions. He's not wrong though.
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Mar 6, 2017 14:50
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Morbus posted:Most of this is just garden variety nationalism, combined with the relative international isolation of most Americans. Part of it, at least for me (US goon), is that I can't help but roll my eyes a little when people from large and historically powerful European countries get sanctimonious while making critical comparisons between the US and their homeland on matters of foreign policy, military, politics, etc. Exactly what I meant with weirdly defensive. Imagine that guy from Germany would go on a similar boring tirade every time someone makes a nazi joke about Germany.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:28
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skit herre posted:Exactly what I meant with weirdly defensive. I can easily imagine that. I've also suffered through British people telling me how lovely and racist Americans are before immediately seguing into a rant about the "Pakis".
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Mar 6, 2017 15:38
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imo it's pretty weird to bring up 19th century european imperialism as a defence of modern US foreign policy if nothing else, have you checked out what the US was up to in the 19th century
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Mar 6, 2017 18:13
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"It's ridiculous that people keep saying that Americans have a hilarious and weird patriotism fetish. Let me prove this by explaining why America is the greatest country in the world again in slightly more detail" - slowly gives a reach around to a bald eagle while maintaining eye contact and openly weeping.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:06
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:imo it's pretty weird to bring up 19th century european imperialism as a defence of modern US foreign policy I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't read that as a defense of anything America has done. It's pointing out that you're a bunch of right bastards responsible for the state of the third world too.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:11
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It's not actually a competition, where only the winner is righteous enough to be allowed to criticise other nations. Honestly it IS a bit annoying that a bunch of Americans have suddenly become experts on Australia's hosed up refugee policies simply to dismiss anything we say as illegitimate, even though we're often screwed by American politics. Or 19th century Europe in this case.
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Mar 6, 2017 21:05
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On the other hand Australia does literally have concentration camps where it's specifically illegal for the staff to report child rape and the rest of the world's too upset about a reality TV star putting a bit more effort into enforcing existing US immigration laws.
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Mar 6, 2017 22:23
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Oh sure. Our country has some massive problems too. Thread's not about us, though 
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Mar 6, 2017 22:27
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whiter than a Wilco show posted:On the other hand Australia does literally have concentration camps where it's specifically illegal for the staff to report child rape and the rest of the world's too upset about a reality TV star putting a bit more effort into enforcing existing US immigration laws. thank you for this useful corrective to the idea that only americans are capable of delivering the worst loving takes
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Mar 6, 2017 22:30
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:thank you for this useful corrective to the idea that only americans are capable of delivering the worst loving takes Actual concentration camps are a bit worse than building a wall.
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Mar 7, 2017 00:32
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You're making us look bad, rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 7, 2017 00:34
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whiter than a Wilco show posted:Actual concentration camps are a bit worse than building a wall. if you think that "building a wall" or "putting a bit more effort into enforcing existing US immigration laws" is what's going on you are spectacularly ignorant and/or callous that is regardless of how bad australia's immigration policy is (it's real bad)
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Mar 7, 2017 01:04
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Guys, what if your country of origin has only a partial impact on who you become as a person, and this weird slapfight between the various ex british colonies (or, well, anywhere really) is just really dumb because they're all doing bad things??? I am curious about the sort of broad American stereotypes though, not some australian basement dweller's screed against Amerikkka, but like, just the general ones. Those were cool posts to read.
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Mar 7, 2017 03:11
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ETA: eh fair enough not to continue the slap fight
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Mar 7, 2017 03:12
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As an American, I really don't care what other people think of us but I still find this thread and the opinions therein fascinating. Please carry on, non US goons.
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Mar 7, 2017 03:30
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Good humored, mild contempt, much like the rest of the US views Texas or Florida.
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Mar 7, 2017 04:25
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Hyperlynx posted:I mean, sure, it's not nearly in the same league as the other stuff, but the day-to-day usage is exactly why it's irritating for non-US people. I don't want to have to get out the converter on my phone just to understand what you're on about when you tell me you get X miles to the gallon, eat a pound of cake or drink an ounce of coffee. You might as well be talking Martian. learn to tolerate cultural differences, bigot 
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Mar 7, 2017 05:09
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Earwicker posted:
We'll never win this argument as long as Americans continue to hand wave away everything about European politics by saying, "well Europeans are just more left wing than us". Here in the UK at least we see our taxes leaving our paychecks and expect to get that money back, whether its physically getting it back in the form of pensions when retired or benefits when unemployed or getting it back in the form of services such as healthcare or policing or legal aid or whatever. In other words, we expect the state to work for us, something I at least consider to be a Having said all that I'm an intelligent and well rounded person and I realise the cultural differences between our parts of the world, so I don't get too worked up about it. Americans are chill for the most part 
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Mar 9, 2017 01:09
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I never said that the period I was talking about was "at the height of the Cold War" I have no idea where you got that from, I wasn't referring to that period at all.
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One thing I have noticed is that Americans really don't seem to like their own country. If you post something positive or at least neutral about the USA, you'll soon get a response from an irate American who will bring up: A) The prison system. B) Slavery / Racism. C) Something else political. D) The healthcare system. E) Acts of USA imperialism \ hypocrisy. While these are interesting and relevant topics of discussion, they don't seem to be satisfied until you conclude that the USA has never accomplished anything positive, is the worst of the most barbaric and bloodthirsty empires that ever existed throughout history, and the entire world would be better off if any other nation was the dominant superpower. EDIT: And they are quite fond of expressing a (hollow, as it turned out) wish to move to either Canada or my own nation, Australia, when political circumstances change to those not of their liking. Sic Semper Goon fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 08:32
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On the other hand, American people I've met have been very nice. Maybe a tendency to talk faster then we usually do, but I can't remember anything else remarkable. Then again, I haven't meet many Americans.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:40
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Pellisworth posted:Yeah I think a lot of that comes from the Cold War era. America GOOD, communism BAD. I think it's from even further back than that. Europe was still ruled by kings/queens/emperors/nobles and americans were like: "That's dumb". And now look at europe, all democratic and stuff. 
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Mar 9, 2017 22:12
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fantastic in plastic posted:I'm an American, so maybe I've been brainwashed by my culture, but this has always seemed like a very strange criticism. Doesn't everyone believe this about their country (or nation, if that's different than their country)? No, absolutely not, and there are plenty of us Americans who don't believe this either. I don't think there is such a thing as a "best country in the world", and frankly think it's a concept that does far more harm than good. Personally I enjoy spending time in France far more than in the US, I just haven't moved there because I haven't had the time/money to deal with emigration. I don't think it's a "better country" in any objective sense though, it's a very personal and subjective thing. duckmaster posted:We'll never win this argument as long as Americans continue to hand wave away everything about European politics by saying, "well Europeans are just more left wing than us". Once again I'm very confused as to how you got that from what I wrote. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 00:03
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Jaguars! posted:Good humored, mild contempt, much like the rest of the US views Texas or Florida. That's not at all how we view Florida. Florida is the reason even those of us who want to stop global warming occasionally ask, "... but should we?"
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Mar 11, 2017 00:29
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shame on an IGA posted:That's not at all how we view Florida. Florida is the reason even those of us who want to stop global warming occasionally ask, "... but should we?" If there was a way to focus all the harmful effects on global warming onto Florida, we'd do it without a thought.
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Mar 11, 2017 05:24
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The US seems like it would be cool to visit or maybe even live in you were really rich, but is pretty poo poo for most people. Compared to "socialist" Finland. It's also really big, I try to keep in mind that US states are sort of like EU countries (not really).
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Mar 11, 2017 08:05
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doverhog posted:The US seems like it would be cool to visit or maybe even live in you were really rich, but is pretty poo poo for most people. Compared to "socialist" Finland. Yeah. I'm dying to visit New York and New Orleans, because they're so drat cool. But I'm not going to, because they happen to be located within the US.
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Mar 11, 2017 09:00
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Hyperlynx posted:Yeah. I'm dying to visit New York and New Orleans, because they're so drat cool. But I'm not going to, because they happen to be located within the US. Why would that stop you? Out of curiosity. Too expensive?
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Mar 11, 2017 17:51
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Captain Monkey posted:Why would that stop you? Out of curiosity. Too expensive? I'm not that poster but the current attitude of myself and many of my friends is revulsion at the idea of going to the states for the next 4 years at least. One of them turned down multiple professional conference invites, telling the organizers that international conferences should not be held in a country currently banning people at random. I'd find it difficult to travel there and feel good about myself with the political climate. And I used to go there multiple times a year. gently caress that now.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:26
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:imo it's pretty weird to bring up 19th century european imperialism as a defence of modern US foreign policy That's laughable because while 19th century USA was awful, it was a damned benevolent paradise compared to say the UK, France, or Prussia/Germany. Like there is a reason all of Africa has one of those three as an official language and it ain't murrikkka Also lol when any british or commonwealth person gets all indignant about US native peoples. Anecdote but most canadian first nations I've met would rather be american indians, for all that entails. Also re Trump chat, I'm a french citizen by birth but born and raised in west Texas. Adult life has mostly been in Canada but now I'm back home y'all. This election and the current government, and hell for that matter Bush and Iraq and all, make me so sad. poo poo I think for all the myriad flaws the US/France/Britain red white and blue trifecta have a good idea behind all the lovely imperialism and if we could kick out all the elites then we might be able to save the world. Final thought, only smug, self-satisfied idiots think some mississipi schmuck with bad opinions is somehow worse than the same person from Sweden, China, or Israel. As proof I point to stereotypical american tourists vs actual chinese tourists. Or german ones. Sorry deutsche friends. vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 21:02
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vintagepurple posted:That's laughable because while 19th century USA was awful, it was a damned benevolent paradise compared to say the UK, France, or Prussia/Germany. Like there is a reason all of Africa has one of those three as an official language and it ain't murrikkka There are zero places in Africa where German (or Prussian) is an official language. The Germans did briefly have colonies in Africa and a few other small islands and outposts in other parts of the world, but generally the extent of their colonialism outside of Europe was tiny compared to the UK, Netherlands, France, Portugal, or Spain. At least in terms of state sponsored colonialism - there are many places in North and South America populated by German settlers but those never became German territory in any sense. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 23:36
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vintagepurple posted:That's laughable because while 19th century USA was awful, it was a damned benevolent paradise compared to say the UK, France, or Prussia/Germany. this is uh, not remotely true, but it is also not really the point. "look at all the bad stuff european countries did in the age of imperialism" is just a really nutty response to people criticising 21st century US foreign policy
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Mar 13, 2017 00:43
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"Yes that sucked too, now please stop assassinating democratically elected leaders or foreign nations because they asked your private corporations to at least use lube while loving them".
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Mar 13, 2017 03:02
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Earwicker posted:There are zero places in Africa where German (or Prussian) is an official language. Namibia? Well maybe not, RIP herero people. whiter than a Wilco show posted:"Yes that sucked too, now please stop assassinating democratically elected leaders or foreign nations because they asked your private corporations to at least use lube while loving them". That is another thing that pisses me off about the french republic!
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Mar 13, 2017 10:09
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nah you are right there is still a small population of German speakers there that have some official recognition, for some reason I thought they had undone that in the 90's still though the overall German impact on Africa in general was pretty minimal compared to other colonial empires, and the idea that the US' own westward expansion and overseas colonization was somehow kinder and gentler is really not true at all.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:32
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I dont think the point is that it was kinder of gentler. I think the point is that most if not all western countries are lovely, and focusing on the US to the exclusion of others to whine about is very well trod, especially when nobody is seriously in here chanting USA! USA! USA! Like, yeah super patriotic USA weirdos are annoying, but in a hypothetical thread dedicated to 'what are the stereotypes of British people in yoir country' you probably wouldn't see a bunch of people talking about how Britain treated Africa or India or whatever, or analyzing Thatcher's impact on the third world. But ask the same question about the US and thats all the thread becomes.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:26
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Captain Monkey posted:I dont think the point is that it was kinder of gentler. That was, in fact, the actual statement that was actually made Captain Monkey posted:I dont think the point is that it was kinder of gentler. I think the point is that most if not all western countries are lovely, and focusing on the US to the exclusion of others to whine about is very well trod, especially when nobody is seriously in here chanting USA! USA! USA! hmm I wonder why people focus on the most powerful and internationally active country in the world more than any other, better get all weirdly defensive about it because any criticism of my country's foreign policy is an attack on me personally!
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Mar 13, 2017 18:05
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:That was, in fact, the actual statement that was actually made I read it as him saying in the 1800's, when the US wasn't realistically an international power, they were more gentle. But yeah dude, literally nobody disagrees that the US has been lovely since its inception. Jeb Bush 2012 posted:hmm I wonder why people focus on the most powerful and internationally active country in the world more than any other, better get all weirdly defensive about it because any criticism of my country's foreign policy is an attack on me personally! I'm not actually being defensive, I'm on board to make fun of America and attack their foreign policy - in fact, I said pretty much all western countries have done horrible things, the US included, and I specifically wasn't diminishing criticisms of the US. It's just not really pertinent in a thread about how people view individual Americans abroad. Like, actually go re-read my post - if this thread was about Britain, we probably wouldn't have to wade through a bunch of shut-ins telling us how awful Britain is, despite Britain also having done horrible things. If anything, people lashing out wildly against the US as a whole is them being really defensive. There are a number of threads where the US' many flaws are pointed out. If people were pointing out flaws of Americans as individual people (loud, don't learn languages, etc.) then they'd be interesting. But talking about how Reagan was a criminal (he definitely was, the US has done some hosed up things) isn't really useful here.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:15
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Captain Monkey posted:I dont think the point is that it was kinder of gentler. I'm not sure what you are reading but I was responding to a person who described 19th century America as "a damned benevolent paradise compared to say the UK, France, or Prussia/Germany. quote:I read it as him saying in the 1800's, when the US wasn't realistically an international power, they were more gentle. American westward expansion was not "more gentle" than British colonialism.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:16
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Earwicker posted:I'm not sure what you are reading but I was responding to a person who described 19th century America as "a damned benevolent paradise compared to say the UK, France, or Prussia/Germany. Ok, fair, I was talking about internationally, but I see what you're saying. The US' hosed up history concerning its native populations is well documented and discussed on these forums. In no way am I defending the united states, I've made that repeatedly clear. I'm just actually interested in what the OP was asking about. These weird slapfights between former British colonies get really repetitive and aren't ever all that insightful.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:20
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