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DoggPickle posted:*They will not re-offend Those reasons suck.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:33
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mcmagic posted:Those reasons suck. Or they're good reasons to extend the death penalty to every crime. People sure wouldn't jaywalk lol!
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Mar 21, 2017 16:16
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Zesty Mordant posted:Even if, hypothetically, a criminal's 100% guilt could be ascertained, what would be gained by executing this person? Justice
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Mar 26, 2017 00:00
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In that case you really should come up with more painful execution methods so you can squeeze even more justice out of every execution and then you've got some spare in case you need some for other crimes.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:23
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DoggPickle posted:
This. I cannot imagine how we ever got to a point where it's ok to put someone in a cage for 20+ years. I'm no historian, but was that common (other than for nobles) at any time in history?
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Mar 26, 2017 02:50
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Well, you wouldn't necessarily stick 'em in a cage, you'd chuck 'em in the oubliette or have them branded or castrated or sawn in half. Or you'd keep them in bondage to you as a slave for the rest of their natural, and perhaps their children after them too. Lifelong incarceration is a constant throughout the history of human civilisation and in some accounts of human society the prison itself is the model from which all societies are necessarily constructed.
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Mar 26, 2017 02:57
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spacetoaster posted:This. I cannot imagine how we ever got to a point where it's ok to put someone in a cage for 20+ years. We stopped executing them I think.
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Mar 26, 2017 03:31
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spacetoaster posted:This. I cannot imagine how we ever got to a point where it's ok to put someone in a cage for 20+ years. Prison was first envisioned as a more humane alternative to other, more physically-oriented punishments ranging from public humiliation to flogging to lethal torture.
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Mar 26, 2017 06:18
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Corporal / humiliation based punishments seem almost like a humane alternative to imprisonment. Is there some kind of pain-zapper that doesnt risk giving people heart attacks?
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Mar 26, 2017 06:46
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You know what might be even more humane, get this, it's this radical idea, not torturing people. Amazing right.
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Mar 26, 2017 06:56
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OwlFancier posted:You know what might be even more humane, get this, it's this radical idea, not torturing people. Amazing right. But then how would we get enough ~justice~ If we do not extract enough suffering from the sinners, the great karmic scale will become unbalanced and the fabric of reality will unravel.
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Mar 26, 2017 11:05
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Are we defining justice here as that funny feeling I get in my pants whenever I see other people suffering?
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Mar 26, 2017 13:29
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Arkansas is holding Death-a-Palooza in April!quote:Eight inmates are to be executed over the next 10 days in the state of Arkansas. The pace of executions, which is unprecedented in recent U.S. history, has been brought about by the looming expiration date of the drug the state uses for lethal injections. The last couple paragraphs also lead into another question I've had about the death penalty: Is the current cocktail of drugs really the most effective method of killing people? Why not just load them with enough Fentanyl to stop a rhino? Obviously the current cocktail (or cocktails, I guess, since there are different ones in different places) is not perfect since it can and does cause pain during the process, which is what the midazolam is supposedly used to stop.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:24
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Those drug cocktails are pretty barbaric. Massive opiate/barbiturate overdose is probably the most humane. Maybe combine it with nitrogen asphyxiation.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:13
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hakimashou posted:Those drug cocktails are pretty barbaric. I mean, the most humane is not killing people at all.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:15
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stone cold posted:I mean, the most humane is not killing people at all. well the most humane is full communism now but baby steps means that maybe the person we kill have one brief moment of solace before their death
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Mar 30, 2017 06:37
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DC Murderverse posted:well the most humane is full communism now but baby steps means that maybe the person we kill have one brief moment of solace before their death ......or we could not have the state kill people?
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Mar 30, 2017 07:14
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If we want True Justice we must kill murderers the same way they killed their victims. It's the only way to
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Mar 30, 2017 07:30
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stone cold posted:......or we could not have the state kill people? No poo poo dummy, but since short of Anthony Kennedy and John Roberts coming to the light and going against their entire judicial history and deciding that the death penalty is, in fact, unconstitutional or every single AG in the country waking up and deciding they're gonna stop being shitheads, that's not gonna happen any time soon.
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Mar 30, 2017 07:45
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DC Murderverse posted:No poo poo dummy, but since short of Anthony Kennedy and John Roberts coming to the light and going against their entire judicial history and deciding that the death penalty is, in fact, unconstitutional or every single AG in the country waking up and deciding they're gonna stop being shitheads, that's not gonna happen any time soon. So ,if you're gonna be all nihilist about it, what's the point of this thread?
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Mar 30, 2017 07:47
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stone cold posted:So ,if you're gonna be all nihilist about it, what's the point of this thread? Well, with Republicans infesting an even greater portion of our government, national, state and local, they're attempting blatant grabs of power that include further use of the death penalty that strikes me as grotesque, while the public opinion slowly trends away from it. There are two separate things going on: whether or not the death penalty is good, and how it's actually being applied in this country. the particular cocktail that's in use straddles both of those lines, but it's a far more likely change to happen in the near term than complete destruction of the death penalty (which should be the end goal).
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Mar 30, 2017 07:54
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DC Murderverse posted:The last couple paragraphs also lead into another question I've had about the death penalty: Is the current cocktail of drugs really the most effective method of killing people? Why not just load them with enough Fentanyl to stop a rhino? Obviously the current cocktail (or cocktails, I guess, since there are different ones in different places) is not perfect since it can and does cause pain during the process, which is what the midazolam is supposedly used to stop. The point of the current process is to put a veneer of civility over the entire affair. Its completely for the onlooker's benefit, an attempt to make it seem sterile and modern and clinical. Its not the fastest, cheapest, or easiest method of execution. It certainly isn't merciful. It exists only to cripple empathy for the condemned and distance the experience of viewing a cold blooded homicide from an emotional impact.
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Mar 30, 2017 11:35
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The guardian has an article about the effect it will have on the executioners. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/29/arkansas-executioners-mental-health-allen-ault
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Mar 30, 2017 12:11
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DC Murderverse posted:well the most humane is full communism now but baby steps means that maybe the person we kill have one brief moment of solace before their death TBH I don't think full communism has ever lead to fewer people being executed.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:58
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sinky posted:The guardian has an article about the effect it will have on the executioners. Maybe they shouldn't kill people if they don't want to deal with the effects that killing people can have
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Mar 30, 2017 19:34
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Booourns posted:Maybe they shouldn't kill people if they don't want to deal with the effects that killing people can have How the gently caress is getting paid to kill people morally acceptable anyhow?
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Mar 30, 2017 19:35
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Orange Devil posted:How the gently caress is getting paid to kill people morally acceptable anyhow? I mean, the army exists.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:36
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DC Murderverse posted:The last couple paragraphs also lead into another question I've had about the death penalty: Is the current cocktail of drugs really the most effective method of killing people? Why not just load them with enough Fentanyl to stop a rhino? Obviously the current cocktail (or cocktails, I guess, since there are different ones in different places) is not perfect since it can and does cause pain during the process, which is what the midazolam is supposedly used to stop. IIRC, that idea was floated, and European suppliers threatened to cut off supplies of certain narcotic painkillers to the U.S. if we started using them for executions, in order to prevent diversion by states. The collective freak out medical profession had over that prospect was enough to put the kibosh on the idea. The current cocktail of drugs is the result of death penalty prohibitionists attempting to strangle supplies of execution drugs while simultaneously working to get each individual execution method a state adopts ruled inhumane. Orange Devil posted:How the gently caress is getting paid to kill people morally acceptable anyhow?
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Mar 30, 2017 19:43
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Orange Devil posted:How the gently caress is getting paid to kill people morally acceptable anyhow? Why wouldn't it be? You know about war and soldiers don't you?
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Mar 30, 2017 21:44
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, the army exists. At least nominally exists to protect people rather than commit wars of aggression.
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Mar 30, 2017 22:07
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Orange Devil posted:At least nominally exists to protect people rather than commit wars of aggression. I think, to be honest, a lot of people are entirely fine with the army doing wars of aggression. That doesn't make it right but it does perhaps explain why there is limited public concern about the concept of killing people for money as long as it is draped in sufficiently florid language.
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Mar 30, 2017 22:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:The current cocktail of drugs is the result of death penalty prohibitionists attempting to strangle supplies of execution drugs while simultaneously working to get each individual execution method a state adopts ruled inhumane. That doesn't fully explain it though when nitrogen gas chambers are possible. Is it a desire to punish the executee harder or do gas chambers conjure Nazi images or both? Orange Devil posted:At least nominally exists to protect people rather than commit wars of aggression. Lots of pro-death penalty people see not executing a murderer as devaluing/not protecting future murders by not deterring. I don't agree with their logic at all but "holy gently caress people get paid to kill people!!!eleven!!" is pretty naive.
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Mar 31, 2017 01:11
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Orange Devil posted:How the gently caress is getting paid to kill people morally acceptable anyhow? Right? Why are we paying for it at all? Think of how much money we could make if we auctioned off the opportunity to perform an execution.
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Apr 3, 2017 05:30
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VitalSigns posted:Right? Why are we paying for it at all? If you leave someone in a cell without food or water long enough they execute themselves and you don't have to pay anyone to do it. #
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Apr 3, 2017 12:04
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Arkansas' DEATH-A-PALOOZA has been canceled because, get this, killing 8 people in 10 days because your (really risky, potentially inhumane and/or ill-gotten) murder drugs are about to expire flies in the face of the 8th amendment and human decency.quote:When Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson announced that the state would execute eight death row inmates between April 17 and April 27 — an unprecedented rush — it was because Arkansas’ supply of midazolam expires at the end of the month. The state did not think it could procure more, since most manufacturers have started refusing to allow their drugs to be used in executions. So, lets go through the "terrible ideas checklist" to make sure this is, in fact, a terrible idea: 1. Arkansas, a state that has not executed anyone in 12 years, is about to execute 8 people in 10 days. 2. They did not execute people because they did not have the means, so to fix that problem, they just lied (lies of omission are still lies motherfuckers) to the manufacturers, who are now pissed that their drugs are going to be used to kill people. 3. multiple people set to be executed have mental disabilities. 4. the only reason they're set to happen so quickly is because the drugs are set to expire and god forbid these people just remain on death row where they will be doing no harm to anyone that they are not already doing with their mere existence on this earth 10/10 terrible idea way to go Arkansas you're really living up to the last 75% of your name
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Apr 16, 2017 09:31
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Has anyone suggested this yet: Have everyone register as either pro- or anti-death penalty. If someone who is pro-death penalty commits a crime, execute them (you'd have to hire some other ProD to do this). Anti-death penalty people can get a jail sentence at most. This way pro-death penalty people get their way more than anti-death penalty people which is obviously not fair but a lot more fair than the current situation.
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Apr 18, 2017 12:50
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DeusExMachinima posted:That doesn't fully explain it though when nitrogen gas chambers are possible. Is it a desire to punish the executee harder or do gas chambers conjure Nazi images or both? Jerry Cotton posted:Has anyone suggested this yet:
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Apr 18, 2017 16:39
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Then they get the D. 
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Apr 18, 2017 22:18
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Dead Reckoning posted:But what if a pro-D rapes and murders and anti-D, or vice versa? What part of this was not explained in my post?
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Apr 19, 2017 10:31
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https://theintercept.com/2017/04/20/arkansas-fights-to-execute-two-men-without-testing-dna-evidence-that-could-exonerate-them/ From the Drumpf thread
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Apr 21, 2017 15:21
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