Lets talk about how fucked up and shitty the Death Penalty is

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Lets talk about how fucked up and shitty the Death Penalty is

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

rudatron posted:

Sociopath/psychopath and the morality of killing them.

I can see that argument, but my counter would be that it is far more useful to study them so that other ones can be identified. I agree that full-blown psychopaths are beyond rehabilitation (at least with current medical techniques), therefore putting them in prison doesn't seem like the right place. Their proper place is in a mental institution; they'll probably never get out, and they can be useful there. I think that the psychological profession could have learned a lot from Dahmer if he was in a psychiatric hospital as opposed to general incarceration, where he was killed very quickly.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 16:58

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 18:15

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

hakimashou posted:

If you say so. It's all I've been saying the whole thread.

There are some practical reasons for executing rather than imprisoning murderers. They can't reoffend and you don't have to pay to keep and feed them, which frees up money to spend on something else.

There are also compelling ethical reasons to do it. It is plausibly a less harsh and more fair penalty than life imprisonment/enslavement. It is a radical way of respecting the murderer's dignity and equality and agency. And if you think its good for people to get what they deserve, then it's good for that reason.

No justice system is infallible. Any state which executes people for crimes will end up executing innocents. There is no recourse once someone is dead. Are you fine with that?

# ¿ Mar 14, 2017 09:18

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

Smudgie Buggler posted:

I am. At least, in theory. Permanent, cheap neutralisation of extremely bad people could easily be well worth some false positives.

So to be clear, you would be fine if one of your loved ones was executed for a crime which they didn't commit?

If the answer is no, you're a hypocrite. If the answer is yes, you're a psychopath.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2017 20:57

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

hakimashou posted:

It would suck if a family member murdered someone and got the death penalty for it, but it's what they'd deserve so I would be 'fine with it,' even if it sucked to lose a family member.

That's not the point; I'm talking about executing people who didn't commit a murder, but were convicted through a miscarriage of justice.

Are you content that the state will execute innocents, in the pursuit of justice?

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 07:02

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

hakimashou posted:

I'm not content that the state will execute innocents, in the pursuit of justice.

However, I don't think it is morally wrong to give murderers the death penalty.

I don't see what the two have to do with one another.

I don't agree with you on the morality issue, but I can understand and respect your viewpoint. It's an interesting discussion to have, provided it's at a theoretical level. The issue of executing innocents is why I oppose the death penalty, and we seem to be in agreement on this.

I find it annoying when people on both sides try to use the morality arguments as the reason to be for or against the death penalty in practice, or pretend as though that's the only argument worth making. I base my opposition on a different argument, one which I think carries far more weight.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 18:14

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

Keeping deaths caused by government actions to a minimum is always preferable.

In the case of vehicular deaths there is a whole host of actions which could be implemented. For example a moratorium on driving more than 10 hours in a day, or hiring cars with a proven safety record, or limiting the car speed. All of those have costs associated with them, which need to be weighed up in the final analysis.

In the case of reducing state executions of innocents there are two options: stop doing it, or implement a series of lengthy and costly appeals processes to try to make certain that anyone actually executed is guilty. Only one of those is foolproof, and happens to be the cheaper option as well.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 20:15

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

hakimashou posted:

Ya, because laws and courts are imperfect I think we probably shouldn't have the death penalty. I think that's a good argument against having it.

I don't think "the death penalty is always morally wrong." Is a good argument.

I agree completely.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2017 18:04

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 18:15

Plucky Brit: Nov 7, 2009; Swing low, sweet chariot

So it looks like Arkansas botched the procedure; the guy being executed was writhing and groaning during his final moments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39757031

Why the gently caress wouldn't you just use a gun? The US has enough of those things, right? Just get a guy with a handgun to deliver one shot to the medulla oblongata.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2017 08:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Lets talk about how fucked up and shitty the Death Penalty is