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Dead Reckoning posted:I think that is a rather facile argument. If your overriding concern is that no innocent party is ever harmed, the only logical conclusion is that the state should never use deadly force, even to pursue legitimate ends. I don't think this is compatible with the concept of a sovereign state. When you start talking about policy at the macro level, you have to accept some possibility of unintentional harm. Holy gently caress this is some alarming loving logic here. "Eh, gently caress it, some innocent people get executed, gotta break some eggs to make that justice omelet!" How about we just don't execute people?
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Feb 27, 2017 02:51
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Uroboros posted:Because getting a life sentence while innocent in the lovely US Prison system is loving great too. Yea but at least we didn't kill them. Also there exists the possibility the mistake will be corrected and they can be released. No backsies after you fire up Ol' Sparky.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:54
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Yea life in prison with no parole is a pretty loving harsh punishment. Why can't that be the option? It is a death penalty, in a sense, they will never have freedom until they are dead. Prison sucks, y'all.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:10
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hakimashou posted:You might consider the fact that prison inmates do kill one another, and as long as the perpetrator is alive there is some chance that he will be able to kill again. This is a solvable problem with solitary confinement or maximum security. Charles Manson hasn't killed anyone in prison, for example.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:19
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hakimashou posted:Wouldn't the vast resources necessary to create some foolproof safe-keeping prison be better spent saving the lives of other people? Perhaps people living in desperate poverty, or people suffering from illnesses or injuries? Take it from the military budget. You could make this argument about anything. Remember that under the current system, killing people is more expensive anyway. Yes, that system is hosed, but it's the reality of the situation, so if you want to make the resources argument, jailing is cheaper than executing.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:26
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hakimashou posted:Treat others the way you would be treated. Here, I can quote cliches too. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." 
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Feb 27, 2017 06:47
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hakimashou posted:You can't have a justice system where "nobody can really know anything" is a compelling defense in the face of extremely good evidence. It would be wrong to punish anyone for anything, since no guilt could ever be established under any circumstances. It's absurd. Which is why our system tries to convict people beyond all reasonable doubt and yet it still fails. Let's not compound that failure by killing people.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:23
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hakimashou posted:I'm not entirely convinced it is better for an innocent person to be condemned to life imprisonment in some hell than to be put out of his misery. Then why do you lust for murderer blood so much? Like, let's lay our cards on the table, the pro-death penalty side is doing it for bloodlust/vengeance reasons, right? It's proven to not be a deterrent.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:26
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twodot posted:This doesn't make any sense to me. You can't undo prison time. You can't undo missing your kid's birthday. I can let you out of prison, I can give you money, but in no sense is the punishment undone. Yea but that person is now alive and free, wouldn't it be nice to be able to offer that instead of a "oops, we killed ya."
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Mar 1, 2017 19:00
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twodot posted:I think it's really silly people talk about abstract properties of the death penalty instead of what it actually does. I do as well, so why is there so much emphasis on the "justice" of it from its proponents?
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Mar 1, 2017 19:22
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got any sevens posted:Can a prisoner ask for the death penalty? And if so can they ask for a firing squad or guillotine? I'd rather do that than rot in jail for 50 years or w/e. Just go piss off the toughest gang, someone will kill you.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:16
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falcon2424 posted:In standard English, 'homicide' is any killing of a person. 'Murder' is an unlawful killing. What a pedantic hair-splitting of rhetorical bullshit.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:49
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hakimashou posted:The death penalty for murder is as proportional as you can possibly get. It's truly identical. You don't have to take into account anything about the perpetrator's subjective experience of the punishment, or the victim's subjective experience of the wrong, since they are both identically dead. That's not even accurate. What if the murderer tortured his victim for days before killing him, should the state do the same? What if the murderer removed limbs before killing their victim? What if they raped them beforehand? Should these things be done to the murderer as well?
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Mar 4, 2017 14:25
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