|
Water lock and SPOM accident lead to the slime biomes to be 5.5k oxygen. But the Carbon Dioxide and Steam just got bullied into a few stray squares.
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:22 |
|
|
I picked up the base game on a sale a while back and am finally jumping in after watching some guides on YouTube. I don't really have anything new to add other than to ask is there a point where I will start making bases that aren't ugly as poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 20:32
|
|
|
To you? No, the game’s aesthetic is what it is and if you don’t like it unlocking more items won’t help. To your dupes? Absolutely, you should take steps to make areas they spend time in, including your main ladder shaft, prettier even early-game with just raw-mineral sculptures and a basic artist. Later game, when you have atmo suits available, a common approach is to make an absolutely gorgeous sealed habitation module and have them suit up every time they go to leave (being suited pauses dupe reaction to how ugly their surroundings are, so only time unsuited at home counts towards how pretty that day was on average). e: cleaning up poo poo you dug out to make your rooms and putting it into storage bins really helps, you should do this with sleeping quarters and mess hall even early game
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
Keeping areas swept up also helps with performance since the game is tracking fewer individual items (e.g. when two lumps of sandstone get put together in a bin it just counts as one lump). Also certain creatures will eat whatever's lying on the ground which you might not want.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:00
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:I picked up the base game on a sale a while back and am finally jumping in after watching some guides on YouTube. I don't really have anything new to add other than to ask is there a point where I will start making bases that aren't ugly as poo poo? I have many thousands of hours (tho I do leave it on in the background all day) and my bases still look mostly like crap:  The piping and wiring in this place is intense, but its 1168 cycles and ticking along. I'm always rushing to the next bit, rarely taking the time to tear stuff down and plan it. I did have aplan to make a tidy base at the bottom of the map but I'm trying to get the last few achievements at last.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:16
|
|
|
I suppose I should clarify when I say "ugly as poo poo" what I mean is "extremely poorly optimized death traps filling up with pollution and co2."
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
Oh yeah once you work out the way the fluid and gas simulations work you'll be able to come up with approaches for capturing and sorting them. Once you have that kind of system up, you could do what a lot of folks do and run something like this mod https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2542160819 which makes the powered and mechanical airlock doors stop fluid and gas interchange even while they're open. You still need to capture and handle things, but you can keep from spilling chlorine through your sleeping quarters and poo poo. While looking up the link to that one I found this, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2094698134, which is a three-tile-wide self-contained personnel airlock, if anyone has used it or tries it out let us know how it works.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:30
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:I suppose I should clarify when I say "ugly as poo poo" what I mean is "extremely poorly optimized death traps filling up with pollution and co2." Oh you'll get the hang of that, and then you can do more exciting things like filling them with high pressure vapourised lead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 21:59
|
|
|
One of the first things I do is rush to suits and enclose off a space my dupes to live in. Then I can stop giving a poo poo about polluted oxygen and chlorine etc. Yes, they move a lot slower but the headache involved with everything else balances it out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2024 23:36
|
|
|
I consider polluted oxygen just free oxygen. Go ahead and cough, little guy. I’m currently playing a game where a half Rodriguez is supporting 22 dupes (it should only support 17, if it’s running full time).
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 03:45
|
|
|
Yeah polluted oxygen isn't that big a deal, especially if it's only like one bubble of it floating around your base, it'll get consumed by a dupe eventually. If the extra oxygen they consume from the debuff is enough to break your base, you have bigger problems with your oxygen generation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2024 03:52
|
|
|
Here's where I've gotten to so far: Anything immediate that needs to be addressed? I guess the next thing I need to do is getting the plumbing system going but that's a bit intimidating. Also is the "Long Commutes" warning something to just learn to live with as a consequence of not making ultra-optimized bases?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2024 23:42
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Also is the "Long Commutes" warning something to just learn to live with as a consequence of not making ultra-optimized bases?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 00:02
|
|
|
Oxygen diffusers aren't going to waste algae since they stop when overpressurized but that is way too many for how many dupes you have. Not sure how many are off screen but judging by the number of beds you need two at most. I'd keep the one above the printing pod and put one opposite the deodorizer on the bottom floor; you don't really want them in your farms, especially mealwood, because of heat production. If you're having trouble with too much CO2 sticking around in rooms, there's a few things you can do. Rather than having two tiles above a door, you can stack another door, which creates more room for gases to move. The tiles either side of your ladder should be airflow tiles; different gases have a hard time passing by each other, especially vertically, when there's only a one tile gap. You can also widen the airflow tiles between floors to 2 or 3, and you might want to put one below the door into the clean water room since the CO2 in there has no way out and will eventually back up into your lab. You can also extend the life of your food (by almost double) by putting your fridges in a pit that you allow to fill up with CO2. Putting a light in the kitchen will also speed up cooking; the kitchen room doesn't actually give any bonuses and the spice grinder isn't all that useful. The pitcher pump can only reach downward 4 tiles, so eventually that's going to become unusable. You can also disable the water cooler to save on water somewhat; it still functions as a recreation building for great hall purposes, and I can guarantee you're going to get food poisoning in your clean water supply at some point (which in the long run really isn't a big deal). Set the direction on your sinks so they only wash their hands leaving the bathroom. When you set up the plumbed bathroom, don't disable/remove the manual ones until you're sure it's working (and even then I like to keep an outhouse or two around as a backup in case the plumbing goes sideways). If you're not staggering dupes across shifts you're also going to need more facilities in general, until your dupes start getting called back for dinner when they're long distances away from the base, everyone's going to rush them at once and you might have accidents to deal with if you don't have one toilet per dupe on the shift. You can start extremely simple with the plumbing system: pump clean water out of the tank and into the bathroom, and then just dump the dirty water in a pit (or a storage tank). Keep the dump closed off with airlocks so the polluted oxygen doesn't flood the base. You can sieve the water but that won't clean the germs out of it, so don't dump it back in the clean tank if you do that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 00:29
|
|
|
Good advice, thanks. E: getting rid of two oxygen diffusers gives me an "insufficient oxygen generation" warning, should I not worry about that? Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 8, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
Can anyone either post or link some good starting info on automating shipping and supplying? In particular, I have not figured out what combination of things to use so that I can store stuff, but dispense it when needed. To give a less vague question: I want to automate my slime-to-algae process. I have belts set up to take slime chunks through chlorine to disinfect, and then the conveyor output drops the packets into water. The part that I'm just not getting somehow is that I want to put the slime in a storage building of some kind, and be able to take it out (or have the building dispense it) when needed. The algae distiller doesn't have any output to signal "I need input" and an auto-sweeper doesn't seem to want to take anything out of storage, only put it in. I don't want to make the belt the belt run on a timer because a) I don't feel like calculating the amount of slime packets I should let through in a day and b) I'm pretty sure it off-gasses while on the belts. I don't want to just leave it in debris form in the water because sometimes it sidetracks dupes who think it needs to go into a storage unit somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 01:14
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:E: getting rid of two oxygen diffusers gives me an "insufficient oxygen generation" warning, should I not worry about that? At the base, all that message means is dupes consumed more oxygen than you produced last cycle. If that consistently happens, obviously you’ve got trouble. But since the diffusers won’t over-pressurize, they won’t run all the time and it takes a bit of time for oxygen to diffuse from where it’s produced to where it’s consumed. So intermittent messages are often harmless. Use the first overlay to see the rough oxygen pressure and decide. Also one very minor point, but you could save the power of one light bulb if you switched the position of the upper bristle blossom and one of the mealwood on the bottom left, since mealwood doesn’t require light. Related, the printing pod lights up a small area, so at the beginning you can grow two bristle blossoms on one side of it and three on the other without powering a light bulb.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 01:42
|
|
|
WithoutTheFezOn posted:Yes and no. If you don't put blossoms around the pod there is exactly enough room for a computer on the left and a super computer on the right to be hit by light and get speed bonuses for being lit. Not a huge deal but faster research for free is always nice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 01:50
|
|
|
I like to put my research tables next to the printing pod to take advantage of the work speed bonus.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 01:51
|
|
|
That’s true, and you can also put screen door walls outside them, making it a lab after you put the supercomputer in, and simultaneously blocking in any critters you accept from the printing pod.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 02:05
|
|
|
Yupyup. The printer, first two research tables, two oxygen diffusers, a pitcher pump, bottle emptier, and a storage bin each for dirt and algae are exactly 16 tiles wide, so my lab plays nice with a 16x4 rooms plan
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 03:29
|
|
|
The pod is also high in decor so if you can keep the area clean of debris your researchers will get a slight mood buff from it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 07:01
|
|
|
That base is certainly more optimised than mine ever are at that stage  My only comments - you have closed off the end of the rooms, best to leave these with doors. Also, 2 mesh doors, one on top of another, allows for better ventilation than two tiles and a single door. From here, you need to focus on getting renewable oxygen, insulating your mealwood and thinking of your next food source. Algae oxygen is not sustainable at the start, an the big clock ticking will be heat - and the first obvious sign will be all your mealwood will stop growing due to Body Temperature > 30 degrees. You probably have 100 cycles or so to deal with these, and the usual solution to oxygen (hot steam vent -> electrlyser -> oxygen) will massively speed up the heat-death problem. So seriously - don't worry about plumbing toilets. I've had bases using compost toilets for a long time with no real troubles, and a base swimming in in piss and bad air is better than one with no oxygen or food. E: Also your central staircase could be wider for ventilation & future proofing. I usually go for 5 tile gap between rooms, and a 3-wide middle stair space (room for fitting better stuff in future like firemans pole and travel tubes) OzyMandrill fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Mar 8, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 11:39
|
|
|
So what's the solution for keeping the base cool? The guides I've watched haven't gotten to that part yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 18:15
|
|
|
Move your machines away from your plants. Ranching so your food supply doesn't die at 30c. Wheezeworts for Materials science research (if in DLC). Mid game you want to research metal refining then you want to start making plastic so you can build a steam turbine. https://www.guidesnotincluded.com/aquatuner-steam-turbine-cooling-loo So you build one of those outside your base and it pipes water around your base. If you want a more step by step version Francis John's tutorial bites series goes into it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 18:20
|
|
|
I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I personally build plumbed lavatories and sinks fairly fast. Cleaning Outhouses and Wash Basins is fairly time consuming and my dupe work hours are precious. Especially after you start pushing out from the initial spawn area, I really don't want a dupe to decide to run back across 1/2 the map to clean the outhouse. But if you're new to ONI, the time to figure out and build plumbed buildings may be too expensive and better off spent on other projects.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 18:32
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:So what's the solution for keeping the base cool? The guides I've watched haven't gotten to that part yet. The basic answer is pipes full of piss running through floors of your core base, and then looping thorough a cold place.* In your current base, looping through the water tank with radiant pipes, and then normal pipes thought the rest of the base would be ok and would stabilise temperature to match the pool temperature. Then, you need to explore - somewhere close will be a cold biome, and you could do something like plant wheezeworts by your water tank so it stays cool, and the cooling loops will bring excess heat back to the pool where the wheezeworts will chill it, or leave the wild wheezeworts in place and loop another cooling loop from your water tank to the cold biome, and let the wild wheezeworts provide sustainable cooling. Eventually when you get the whole aquatuner setup, you can tie that in to chill the main pool, and then your base will be cooled for the rest of the game. And getting the hang of making and filling loops with pipe bridges is a good next step. * Reasons: 1: Out of all available liquids at the start, p.water is by far the best coolant. It has a larger range (-20C freezing for example) and carries twice as much heat energy as normal water. 2: Normal pipes running through tiles transfer heat at about the right rate to gently warm/cool, and the tiles then transfer well to surrounding gasses. Due to their mass, the cool tiles regulate the temperature in rooms to match the tiles well. Running a pipe through the room itself just interacts with the air and buildings directly, and generally is less efficient (unless you need to specifically cool a building like a generator, or the electric grill) Edit: And - answer 1b is - change food! Hatches are a great food - they basically eat rocks, poo poo coal (for power) and when they die they give meat for barbecue. And - they survive quite happily in temperatures over 30C, unlike most crops, so this gives you until the base hits ~50C to solve your heat issues before everyone dies. OzyMandrill fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 8, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 19:24
|
|
|
You can circumvent that somewhat by having a dedicated janitor, or even cycling dupes through janitorial duties to build up strength/athletics skill (which will make them able to carry more and move faster, an overall positive). Compared to the amount of time to sweep up debris and keep the rest of the base clean, spending part of a cycle every 3-4 days to clean the toilets is pretty minuscule. Re: Cooling there's a few methods, ranging from temporary stopgap to permanent never-have-to-think-about-it-again. -Dig out and move ice from cold biomes to warm rooms to cool them down temporarily. This can at least avert a food crisis if all your food spoils at the same time your mealwood overheats. Building tempshift plates out of ice will let them dump their heat very quickly, and if you let the water sit on the floor for a while it'll chill the tiles too. Digging out ice is not really something you want to do a lot of, since you lose half of the mass, and that's fresh water you could be using for oxygen or food. So instead the next best thing involving the ice biome is... -Run pipes through the ice biome and back through your base. By melting the ice tiles naturally, you keep all the water mass (and all the cold). The downside is this is a bit finicky to do without digging out any ice, and you'll need to constantly rearrange pipes and tempshift plates as you melt through the biome. One solution that simplifies things slightly is to pump cold water out of the bottom, run it through the base, and dump the return in at the top of the biome - it will then flow down over all the tiles and melt things more evenly. You might have to do a bit of pipe adjustments to ensure the output is always falling on an ice tile rather than straight back into the bottom pool. -It's unlikely to provide a permanent solution since it's just not enough mass, but if you can find a cold slush/salt slush geyser, it can provide a portion of your permanent cooling needs. Mostly the same method as the ice biome piping strategy - pump the cold water out, run it through your base, dump it somewhere (in the case of a geyser you might be better off dumping it somewhere away from the geyser though - maybe use it to melt another ice biome). -The permanent solutions involve thermo aquatuners and regulators. Aquatuners being massively preferred since they operate on much more mass, and liquids have higher specific heat capacity per mass, but regulators can have their place. In either case you'll want to build them out of steel (gold can work in a pinch but you'll want to replace it when you get steel) and slap a steam turbine on top. Steam turbines are magic - they delete 90% of the heat put into them (and radiate the other 10% into their immediate environment). The key part of it all being a closed loop system where the condensed steam water gets put back into the aquatuner chamber. After many iterations the system I use is a combined aquatuner/regulator setup - the aquatuner runs a cooling loop that cools the oxygen generator and the steam turbine (using polluted water as transfer medium), while the regulator cools a CO2 food storage pit to deep freeze temperatures so food lasts forever, using hydrogen in gas pipes. The cooling setup itself is very compact.  And the cooling loops aren't very complicated by themselves, although there's some extra unrelated piping running through the area so it looks worse than it is.   The water loop just cools a big metal block which all the oxygen pipes run through (#4 in the gas pipe picture). The hydrogen gas loop runs up into the kitchen where it just has a few radiant pipes in the food pit.  It keeps things cool.  Note that this is only for main base cooling (by dumping oxygen into the base at about 0C) and food storage cooling. Keeping industrial portions cool can be done in a similar manner but also is going to require a lot more power and planning. Or you can look into industrial saunas.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 19:27
|
|
|
Faldoncow posted:I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I personally build plumbed lavatories and sinks fairly fast. Cleaning Outhouses and Wash Basins is fairly time consuming and my dupe work hours are precious. Especially after you start pushing out from the initial spawn area, I really don't want a dupe to decide to run back across 1/2 the map to clean the outhouse. Same, that and if you loop the piss through a sieve and plumb it back into your plumbing system you'll have a water surplus (dupes piss more than toilets and wash basins use). It's germy but who cares, not the toilets for sure.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 19:28
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:So what's the solution for keeping the base cool? And remember that solids and liquids hold a lot more heat (or cool, if you want to think of it that way) than gasses (that’s the specific heat capacity in the properties tab).
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2024 21:09
|
|
|
Do you have a mod changing the look of tiles? I don't recognize what the room walls are built out of.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2024 03:08
|
|
|
OzyMandrill posted:The basic answer is pipes full of piss running through floors of your core base, and then looping thorough a cold place.* PWater and water have the same specific heat capacity and thermal conductivity. This was balanced a few years ago.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:Do you have a mod changing the look of tiles? I don't recognize what the room walls are built out of. It's True Tiles. Insulated tiles all have that fuzz around the edges, the whole thing is built out of insulated tiles. I'm also using an airlock mod so if you're not then you need to use a vacuum liquid lock there to insulate the heat chamber or just wall it in completely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 11:59
|
|
|
insta posted:PWater and water have the same specific heat capacity and thermal conductivity. This was balanced a few years ago. Ah, missed that, that's good. The lower freezing point on pwater is the big draw anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 12:27
|
|
|
Xerol posted:It's True Tiles. Insulated tiles all have that fuzz around the edges, the whole thing is built out of insulated tiles. I'm also using an airlock mod so if you're not then you need to use a vacuum liquid lock there to insulate the heat chamber or just wall it in completely. Oh, I like it! I might add that mod myself. I'm just getting to higher energy levels where you need to actually think about what material you use for stuff. Speaking of mods and specifically airlock ones, I have the Self-Sealing Airlocks Revived one recommended upthread and it doesn't seem to work. Is there a special extra step to enabling mods that I've missed? Any other reason it might not be doing anything for me when it seems to work for others?
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 21:31
|
|
|
Oh dang, truetiles is working again. An update broke it a while ago. Thanks for reminding me, thread!
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 22:26
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:Speaking of mods and specifically airlock ones, I have the Self-Sealing Airlocks Revived one recommended upthread and it doesn't seem to work. Is there a special extra step to enabling mods that I've missed? Any other reason it might not be doing anything for me when it seems to work for others? That's the one I've got and while I haven't played in a few months it was working for me last time I did. Just loaded up to test and I've got a mechanical airlock door at the bottom of a collection pool for a cool steam vent, sent a dupe in to sweep something off the floor and the water stayed contained. Still working for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2024 23:20
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:The algae distiller doesn't have any output to signal "I need input" and an auto-sweeper doesn't seem to want to take anything out of storage, only put it in. I don't want to make the belt the belt run on a timer because a) I don't feel like calculating the amount of slime packets I should let through in a day and b) I'm pretty sure it off-gasses while on the belts. I don't want to just leave it in debris form in the water because sometimes it sidetracks dupes who think it needs to go into a storage unit somewhere. You need to have your storage units have a lesser priority than the thing you want stuff swept into. If your distiller is 5 and your storage is 6, it will always prioritize the storage. Setting storage to 4 will have the sweeper move from storage to distiller. Sounds like your belt is a one item only line, which is fine, but to give a bit of an idea I have a chamber all of my eggs are dumped into - the belt feeding it currently has four loaders that feed various things critters eat (like igneous rock for stone hatches) that I don't want to have clogged with one item continuously, as well as a fifth loader that takes eggs dropped off from ranches. These four conveyers each first run into a meter set to 250 units, and the reset is hooked up to a cycle timer that turns green briefly once a day to allow 250 of each to hit the line. The fifth just sends as eggs are available. When this belt reaches the chamber, it ends in a receptacle set to priority 1. The critter feeders for each of the four types are set to priority 3. There are four storage bins set to priority 2 that each take a type. When the 1000 units come down the line the sweeper first fills the feeders, and if those are full, fills the bins. If the feeders are empty and the bins have anything, it pulls from the bins. This keeps the line from being clogged and allows eggs to come through to the receptacle continuously. To complete the description the eggs go into a separate loader set to priority 9 and immediately drops into the chamber from there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 00:19
|
|
|
Frequent Handies posted:You need to have your storage units have a lesser priority than the thing you want stuff swept into. If your distiller is 5 and your storage is 6, it will always prioritize the storage. Setting storage to 4 will have the sweeper move from storage to distiller. It will prioritize filling the storage if the settings are like that, but filling the distiller is considered a different type of task so when the storage is full the autosweeper will still move items from the storage to the distiller even if the distiller is priority 1 and the storage priority 9. My random guess for the problem? No output pipe on the algae distiller. The autosweeper won't fill a still that isn't fully connected.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 01:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:22 |
|
|
I appear to have significantly underestimated the amount of natural gas a flatulent dupe will put into the air.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 07:15
|
|