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The system you need to put in to sieve farts out of the air will have a capacity such that you might as well hire on some more of them. e: just like how atmo suits hold all the dupe’s exhalations and release it into the atmosphere around the suit dock when they change back into their regular clothes, they also store and release natural gas from farts. If your running a sealed hab you still really need a filter system for it but most of the fart gas will be concentrated in the airlock LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 07:49
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Frequent Handies posted:You need to have your storage units have a lesser priority than the thing you want stuff swept into. If your distiller is 5 and your storage is 6, it will always prioritize the storage. Setting storage to 4 will have the sweeper move from storage to distiller. Yeah, this was it. It didn't occur to me as I'd never adjusted any priority and so the storage and distiller were both at 5. Thank you!
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Mar 12, 2024 08:32
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LonsomeSon posted:e: just like how atmo suits hold all the dupe’s exhalations and release it into the atmosphere around the suit dock when they change back into their regular clothes, they also store and release natural gas from farts. If your running a sealed hab you still really need a filter system for it but most of the fart gas will be concentrated in the airlock Oh that’s how that keeps happening.
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Mar 12, 2024 15:28
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God the olfactory experience in those airlocks must be devastating for the non-flatulent dupes. One of their buddies comes home, takes off their suit, and releases the equivalent of a thousand farts at once.
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Mar 12, 2024 21:46
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They’re so potent you can burn them for power! And, yeah, every suit bay needs an exhaust mechanism or you’re going to wind up with like 18 kilos/tile of CO2 and no idea why everyone always has Popped Eardrums. You can just regulate by pressure since they’re going to/coming from bottled oxygen, I don’t think I’ve ever bothered to build one which keeps its suit racks breathable.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:08
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You mean you don’t just dump your co2 in the basement so that the mushrooms can grow?
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Mar 13, 2024 00:12
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They don’t actually consume any, so over a shockingly short time horizon you’re over-pressurizing your mushrooms. Dupes are dumping kilos of CO2 each, every day, into your suit lock.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:06
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The mesh tile I keep under the checkpoint tile to handle any spills also lets the CO2 dump down into the basement level where my skimmer is. I spent a while trying to come up with an ideal self-contained base for 8 dupes and one skimmer + one sieve is enough to handle both the bathroom and skimming usage.
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Mar 13, 2024 06:51
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Playing with an airlock mod for the first time and it kinda feels like cheating? But also in hindsight it isn't really helpful outside of some industrial applications, like farming dreckos. Filtering out chlorine or whatever from the living area is pretty easy by the time that it starts to become a problem
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Mar 13, 2024 07:49
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I do think it's weird that liquid locks work but airlocks don't work the same way. It's like, do they want you to solve the problem of imperfect airlocks or not? In my mind it is absolutely "cheating" to use a mod that makes them perfect. Those random pumps you need for little things end up being a real drain on resources and force you to confront issues like coal shortages earlier, but liquid locks are basically "cheating" in the same way. They work via the game's mechanics but they similarly let you ignore a problem that is more interesting solved. If it were up to me I'd make a bit of gas bubble through liquid locks when a dupe crosses them, just enough to bring them to parity with a reasonable but imperfect airlock. I think it's reasonable for them to behave the same though - it's annoying that liquid locks are perfect and the only real tradeoff is "they are fiddly and annoying to place compared to airlock doors". The "wet feet" debuff just isn't enough to counteract it. I definitely get using the mod for that reason.
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Mar 13, 2024 07:58
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I'm thinking it might be worth re-visiting pump-based airlocks given the new high-temperature plastic option - having a mini pump to drain the airlock to your industrial sauna didn't work because it would just melt before. Or don't even have an airlock at all: build transit tubes, with a vacuum buffer to prevent heat transfer to the outside, and have that be the only way in or out. Liquid locks weren't the only solution without mods, but any other solution has side effects that more difficult to deal with than setting up liquid locks. I wonder what else of the recent(ish) changes would be worth looking at for new solutions to old problems. e: Just looking at the most recent patch: -Critter pick-up might change ranching in the early game, since you might not need to wait for sweepers to automate ranching. -Gas reservoir buff means you might not need infinite gas storage for some things (like a natural gas geyser). And the previous update was one I didn't even see because I was playing other games at the time, but there's probably stuff in there that can make similar changes. Xerol fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 08:24
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The problem with minipumps is that they're ridiculously slow, 1/10th of what a normal pump can do. So if you've got a high traffic area you'll probably see gases leaking through because the pump can't really keep up with it.
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Mar 13, 2024 08:38
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Xerol posted:-Gas reservoir buff means you might not need infinite gas storage for some things (like a natural gas geyser). This could be neat for the early game. Although knowing myself, I'll just end up building infinite storage chambers crammed with reservoirs for maximum fart supply. E: Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I do think it's weird that liquid locks work but airlocks don't work the same way. It's like, do they want you to solve the problem of imperfect airlocks or not? In my mind it is absolutely "cheating" to use a mod that makes them perfect. Those random pumps you need for little things end up being a real drain on resources and force you to confront issues like coal shortages earlier, but liquid locks are basically "cheating" in the same way. They work via the game's mechanics but they similarly let you ignore a problem that is more interesting solved. Yeah, I decided to try the mod out because liquid locks are annoying to set up and their odd shape makes it inconvenient to build into a compact base. I guess it's just as much of a cheat, I'm just slightly more likely to use modded airlocks in some situations. My environment suits are always in hallways with a couple deodorizers and a pump/filter, which takes care of most gas intrusion. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 12:55
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I’ve built many hundreds of liquid locks. They’re just drudgery now, so I have no problem using the mod. But honestly I don’t use airlocks much any more — mostly where extreme heat or vacuum is involved. I still use the double liquid lock with a vacuum in between for really hot place.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:03
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Just feed the tree and use viscogel imo
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Mar 13, 2024 16:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Those random pumps you need for little things end up being a real drain on resources and force you to confront issues like coal shortages earlier I agree that liquid locks don’t feel right, but I don’t find electricity an issue with pumps used this way. I haven’t looked at numbers but when I automate pumps on (pressure > 500 g) & (not oxygen) then they are nearly always off.
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Mar 13, 2024 16:58
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The problem with pump airlocks is if there's any gas in the airlock at all, temperature can flow from one side to the other, and more importantly, to the pump itself. Early game where you might at best have gold amalgam available doesn't work for anything warmer than a cool steam vent (even a natural gas geyser will overheat a gold gas pump eventually). So the pump has to run to completely deplete the room every time someone passes through, and the pump will eventually overheat (and also melt if it's a plastic mini-pump). Throwing power at the problem is one solution but there are definitely smarter ways to go about it. A passive cooling loop is probably enough to keep a pump from overheating when used for a steam room airlock, especially if you use a conduction panel (hey look it's another relatively new feature that's underutilized). The amount of heat that you'd need to remove is really not all that much, unless you're using like a 500C steam room in which case you probably already have thermium. And from what I remember you don't have to run the area completely to vacuum, only down to something like 10g? where the game stops doing conduction calculations (I remember this from the time I had an extremely tiny amount of lead vapor in the magma biome due to poor life choices, and was able to pump it out with a mini pump that didn't overheat or melt). And a pump will take a 2x2 room from 500g to 10g in about the same amount of time it takes to get from 10g to vacuum. So there's ways around a non-modded, non-liquidlock airlock being a drain on resources, but it's still a drain nonetheless. But more than anything, why I use modded airlock doors: WithoutTheFezOn posted:I’ve built many hundreds of liquid locks. They’re just drudgery now
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Mar 13, 2024 17:38
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I would be surprised if I built even a hundred (permanent) liquid locks. I basically only use them for dreckos and slicksters. I don't seal in my entire base. I'm fine with letting a little air out when I go to space. You don't usually need to let your dupes back into steam rooms (I don't do industrial saunas). For temporary vacuums, naphtha is more than enough and increasingly convient with the new move to command.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:33
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I tried building some actual airlocks, with automation, out of the parts they gave us. They just don’t work well, and more importantly they don’t play well with Dupe pathing and jobs. If they fix this I will get rid of Self-Sealing and build my own, that sounds fine. It’s definitely silly that an open door can keep 100 tonnes of water from rushing out itself.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:42
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It just occurred to me that transit tube crossings could be used as no-leak airlocks.
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Mar 13, 2024 21:33
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LonsomeSon posted:I tried building some actual airlocks, with automation, out of the parts they gave us. They just don’t work well, and more importantly they don’t play well with Dupe pathing and jobs. Yeah, it would be neat if you could set up a true airlock where dupes go in, the doors seal, all the air gets pumped out, and the door opposite to the one they entered opens. The actual mechanics of it are doable with automation but the dupe AI itself would not know what to do. As soon as they got sealed in the job they were going outside to do would cancel because they can't path to it anymore and when the door opens again there's no guarantee they're going to pick it back up again.
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Mar 13, 2024 21:36
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I wouldn't mind if there was a midgame tech that unlocked a true airlock building, which as far as pathing/job goes functions like an atmo suit dock, but does all those steps in sequence. So it would take longer for dupes to go through, but the sequence would be automated and dupes wouldn't drop their current pathing/job. Stick it in tier 5 tech so it needs radbolts (maybe rename & stick it under advanced sanitation and give people a reason to research that because no one uses the decontamination shower). It would require power to run and have a gas output port (since the gases that get purged from the airlock need to go somewhere) - these are balances against having a one-click solution. And you'd still need two of them to do a vacuum seal, since as a single building it would conduct temperature between both sides (or maybe have an advanced version under endgame tech that uses insulation to build but doesn't conduct heat). I do wonder, now that pathfinding has been mentioned, if such a building would cause problems with dupes wanting to go opposite directions - right now atmo suit docks seem to work fine with dupes going in and out at the same time, but an airlock is fundamentally different since you don't want either door opened while it's purging.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:41
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Xerol posted:I wouldn't mind if there was a midgame tech that unlocked a true airlock building, which as far as pathing/job goes functions like an atmo suit dock, but does all those steps in sequence. So it would take longer for dupes to go through, but the sequence would be automated and dupes wouldn't drop their current pathing/job. Stick it in tier 5 tech so it needs radbolts (maybe rename & stick it under advanced sanitation and give people a reason to research that because no one uses the decontamination shower). It strikes me as something that could be possible if they wrote the right behaviour around it - basically what would be needed for "true" airlocks to work would be for dupes to be able to queue up to wait to use an object that is currently busy, without losing their planned path/job. There are mods that allow for dupes to queue up for sinks so I know the behaviour is possible, although I'm not sure if anything in the vanilla game uses it.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:57
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Dupes being smart enough to wait would be nice, could have things like elevators.
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Mar 13, 2024 23:07
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Yeah that's what I mean by problems - the game doesn't seem to really be able to support it right now, so writing new behaviors in would be needed, and who knows what side effects that would have on other systems or performance (where pathfinding is already a huge part of performance drag on large colonies).
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Mar 13, 2024 23:15
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I don't think you'd need to change much, you can already basically do that clumsily with transportation tubes. I think the pathing behaviors would be the same for an airlock.
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Mar 14, 2024 00:48
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You could always use transit tubes as an airlock, though until recently the mandatory use of plastic meant hot areas were a problem.
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Mar 14, 2024 01:03
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Yeah dupes being able to wait wouldn't actually be much of a performance problem - if anything it would improve performance because they wouldn't need to re-calculate their pathfinding every time they got blocked by something. But it might create bottleneck problems of "every dupe wants to use the same airlock and it's creating a huge line, meanwhile there are 5 other airlocks sitting completely idle that they refuse to touch because it's less direct". You can see this in unmodded Cities: Skylines traffic behaviour where every car is like "I need to turn right in 500 miles, better get into the right lane now" and your 3 lane highway only has one lane anyone actually uses.
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Mar 14, 2024 01:07
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The Cheshire Cat posted:every car is like "I need to turn right in 500 miles, better get into the right lane now" and your 3 lane highway only has one lane anyone actually uses. I didn't know the game was based so heavily on Tulsa
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Mar 14, 2024 02:09
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah, it would be neat if you could set up a true airlock where dupes go in, the doors seal, all the air gets pumped out, and the door opposite to the one they entered opens. The actual mechanics of it are doable with automation but the dupe AI itself would not know what to do. As soon as they got sealed in the job they were going outside to do would cancel because they can't path to it anymore and when the door opens again there's no guarantee they're going to pick it back up again. I've never used it myself, but I think the Duplicant Checkpoint is exactly what you're looking for. IIRC it just makes the dups pause their pathing until you send a green signal.
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Mar 14, 2024 06:40
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New game. Started right next door to a water geyser and a hot steam vent. I guess H20 isn't going to be a problem this time! I don't know what the odds are, but I've never even found a water geyser before, and hot steam vents just once or twice. E: oh, the mandatory cool steam vent is just past the water geyser 
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Mar 16, 2024 09:04
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I cannot figure out how the critter pick-up works. What I want is for my drecko ranch to have any critters removed that aren't regular dreckos or more than 8 dreckos. But I can't get the pick-up to do anything. I tried setting it to 0 glossy dreckos, since the description says it will only work on critters selected, but that didn't do anything. I also tried setting it to 8 normal dreckos, and that didn't do anything either. The ranch currently has about 10 of each in it.
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Mar 19, 2024 19:52
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Do you have identical creature drop offs in rooms with space for more creatures?
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Mar 19, 2024 19:55
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Do you have identical creature drop offs in rooms with space for more creatures? Yeah I have 3 completely empty ranches, one for regular and 2 for glossy dreckos, that I'm trying to get the extras into. e: Is this a sweeping-type situation where the task isn't assigned to the pick-up, but to the drop-off location, and this is why I'm not seeing any tasks in the pick-up? (And then all my dupes are just too busy to get to the drop-off which is probably still at default priority)
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Mar 19, 2024 19:57
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I believe you'll need 2. One set for dreckos in excess of 8, and one for all other creatures in excess of 0.
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Mar 19, 2024 20:52
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The way I’ve always worked those ranch settings is that you’re whitelisting critter types, so anything not checked should get auto-wrangled. Then you’re setting a maximum number, so any whitelisted critters in excess of X will get auto-wrangled. If no wrangling is happening gently caress with your work priorities, if they’re getting hogtied but just left there until they break out then, uh, gently caress with your work priorities but for a different job.
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Mar 19, 2024 23:07
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LonsomeSon posted:The way I’ve always worked those ranch settings is that you’re whitelisting critter types, so anything not checked should get auto-wrangled. It's different now as of like a week or two ago, it does act a bit oddly and not quite how you would expect I am still trying to sort it myself.
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Mar 19, 2024 23:10
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God drat it stop making GBS threads your pants in the clean water tank
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Mar 23, 2024 06:58
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Just line the tank with doors made from uranium ore and let them piss freely
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Mar 23, 2024 08:34
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Grand Fromage posted:God drat it stop making GBS threads your pants in the clean water tank
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