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If you tee off every vent then half of the gas goes to the first vent in the line and half of what's left to the next and so on. When I want to have a bunch of vents in one line generally the end of the line is where I want the gas to go first, so each vent goes in the middle tile of a bridge - the bridge prioritizes output further down the line, so the gas all goes to the end of the line before it starts coming out any other vents. I also like putting pressure sensors next to each vent so it doesn't go to a full 2kg in every room, at least until I have unlimited oxygen generation - 800g to 1.2kg seems to be plenty (depending on the size of your rooms and other factors like airlocks).
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Aug 5, 2022 17:28
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I've started building mechanical floors into my overall base designs entirely for that reason. They also make good spaces for storage tanks, batteries, etc. that don't need interaction and you don't need to oxygenate them once completed.
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Aug 5, 2022 18:13
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When I first found those structures all the tiles were made out of obsidian so I assumed that if I skilled up a miner and dug out some obsidian and then built tiles out of it, I could get those spiffy tiles around my base. That was definitely a disappointment.
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Oct 27, 2022 13:52
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Is anyone aware of a mod that lets you have a much finer-detailed color scale for the temperature overlay? I found this which kinda works but that still seems limited to the 8 or so fixed points of temperature on the scale. I'm looking for something that has a lot more gradience to it like some weather map scales: e: I tried making a custom color profile for that mod but it just crashes the mod on game load if you put more than the default number of colors in. Xerol fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 28, 2022 |
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Oct 28, 2022 21:36
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The beta had a pretty massive memory leak which today's patch fixed (along with a bunch of other crashes). I'm surprised anyone managed to experience any other kind of crash because the memory leak was so bad - about 25GB/hr on my machine, which I only found out about the first time when it crashed my entire system (with 32GB physical ram) with the process taking up 90GB of page file.
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Dec 7, 2022 23:44
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I haven't yet reached a point where I can build one but from what I can tell from watching a lot of videos recently: 1) The magma has to drip from the end of a magma blade, which has to run 10 tiles so it only drips off the edge. Any more and it will turn into a full tile when cooled, which is not what you want, since you'd then have to mine it out. 2) There needs to be a solid tile under the two mesh tiles, with a free space diagonally down and to the side of the bottom mesh tile. Since the game won't let the magma solidify inside the mesh tile, it teleports out, and the nearest free space is the diagonally open one (since you put another mesh tile on top). e for content: My current map has quite a lot of salt water just from random caves, plus several more geysers around which I haven't even opened up yet.  The plan: run a bunch of desalinators in a steam room. (note: I'm running a mod with airtight airlocks)  The reality: The salt water within the machines is cooling the machines down too much for it to become a steam room. This might change once I get a place to store a ton of fresh water? Right now there's only about 1/4 capacity going through each because it's just going straight to consumers. The good news is I'm not even close to running out of water. If this doesn't work out in the long term I'm ready to just stick a few aquatuners down at the bottom of the pool and turn half of the map into a steam room. Xerol fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 05:54
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Yeah all the pipes were insulated. But I didn't have continuous flow, I ran out of places to put clean water so the 15C salt water sitting inside the machines cooled them down pretty quickly, and with the desalinators not running there wasn't enough heat being added to even keep up 60 degrees.
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Dec 11, 2022 08:13
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Am I going to be able to send rockets to/from this planet?
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Feb 9, 2023 04:57
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I was feeling bold and designed a metal volcano petroleum boiler. Mostly standard stuff on the boiler side, but limited to 1.25 kg/s input because that's about all this volcano (copper) can handle.    After a few iterations this is the best I could do for conveyor rails to bring the hot copper into the hotbox. Next time I'll leave myself enough room to add a vacuum storage chamber so it can run more continuously. It's a mess because of the order I built things in and the insufficient amount of space I left myself. Basically, hot copper gets picked up in the volcano chamber and put into the conveyor loader, which then bridges onto the hotbox loop. The hotbox loop runs until the metal gets below 408C and then the shutoff shunts them back to the volcano chamber to dump off the rest of the heat into the steam. The copper comes out at about 150C and does a quick jaunt through the oil pool to dump off another 50 degrees of heat before getting dumped in a pool of water in the main base. also half the reason the rails are a mess is because i got inputs/outputs backwards on a bridge and i couldn't tear it down to fix it, thank god for pliers  Right now I have to turn it down to 5g/s during the volcano dormant period, but next time around I'm going to add enough internal storage for hot metal so that it will just run without ever needing adjustment. Sure, 1.25kg/s isn't really much, but this uses about as much power as it creates before even counting the petroleum output. Factoring in volcano downtime it's more like 800g/s average. The good news is I have 3 metal volcanoes in my oil biome so between them (and I think iron and cobalt volcanoes have generally higher average heat output?) I can easily run one petroleum generator continuously and probably close to two if the other volcanoes are hot enough. For free! And cool metal in my base too.
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Feb 13, 2023 21:13
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 Toyed around with this idea last game, finally putting it into full effect this time around. This is at the very top of my non-suited base, so any loose hydrogen from around the map eventually gets up there anyway. So far it's working well, the CO2 at the bottom is just because my skimmer isn't that low and I'm growing mushrooms for now. Eventually plan on closing off the central portion of the base (70 wide by 12+ floors tall) and having the rest of the world only accessible by suits (and eventually only by tubes).  Only reason the top left room isn't included in that is I'm planning on turning that room into infinite hydrogen storage, so I never have to worry about that backing up the electrolyzers.
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Feb 15, 2023 02:49
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Bit of a pipe mess in my current base but it's working well. 1) The main steam room. Most of the heat comes from the metal refinery but the aquatuners are also extracting quite a bit of heat themselves. Most of the water comes from the natural gas generators, with a supplemental source of pwater siphoned off my main supply when the steam pressure falls below 5kg. 2) Main cooling box. When I set this up I didn't have a lot of metal or other good resources available, so it's mafic rock tiles in an insulated box. Kept between -43 and -57 by the aquatuners which are running in sequence, although there's some counterflow going on just from the loop itself, so most of the box stays about the same temperature. When I get to taming some metal volcanoes those will probably become metal tiles. 3) Steam turbine output cooling. There's a valve way up by the turbines that limits the output to 1kg and the rest gets dumped back into the room, so I don't have to worry if this box gets too cold. When the output water is below 0C the doors open so it doesn't get too cold, although this has not happened yet - when the turbines are running continuously the aquatuners also run continuously to keep this water at about 25C, good enough to dump into my main clean water tank. 4) Main pwater cooling. This is coming from a polluted water vent (from the bottom) at 30C so this doesn't need to do a lot. Same setup, when the output is below 20 the doors open. The very rough counterflow of the pipes in open space averages the temperatures out so the incoming water to the sieve is around 22C. 5) Fridge cooling. This goes all the way down to -30, and consumes most of the cooling from the main box when the turbines aren't running. 6) The unpowered fridges are just sitting on a metal plate which is sitting on another mafic rock box, that receives most of the cooling from #5. Keeps the contents of the fridges around -22 which is good enough to prevent spoilage. But what's that temperature sensor about? 7) It's part of the control for the door between the fridge box and the main clean water tank. There's two temperature sensors just connected up in an OR configuration, since green opens doors. If the fridge is too warm (the tile with the temperature sensor getting above -8 to -10, still haven't dialed this completely in yet) then the door opens to make sure all of the cooling goes to the fridge, since we don't want spoilage. Otherwise, there's a temperature sensor in the main tank (just above the 7) which opens the door when the main tank gets below 20C. The previously cooled water from #4 also does a loop through the tank before going into the sieve. The main tank is fed primarily from the sieve and supplementarily from the steam turbine output. It's full of food poisoning but I have ample medication for that, and at this point I've switched almost entirely over to surf n'turf for food so the bristle blossoms being a little contaminated doesn't matter much anyway. I also have mushroom wraps as a backup good food source, or any excess barbeque from the hatch ranches. Most of the output is now going to the electrolyzers that provide all the oxygen for 12 dupes and a bunch of different dock locations. The main tank also sits directly above the main base's main source of heat, which is all the mechatronics running the hatch ranches (and to some extent the hot igneous rock coming up from the oil biome). I'm going to have to switch over to cooled magma for that eventually anyway so when that happens I'll make sure the rocks are coming in around 30-40 degrees instead of 85. In a way the tank is shielding the rest of the base from the heat. 
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Feb 23, 2023 00:41
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Next time around I might make it a liquid tank of some kind instead. Part of me wants to use crude for it since there's so much and I'm not really using a lot of it but having it all down at -30 when I finally do want to start a petroleum boiler is not going to be fun. Water/pwater wouldn't be able to get cold enough to chill the fridge. Guess I could use post-boiler petroleum but I'd need to pre-chill it so as not to overtax the aquatuners (at which point I would need to start burning the petroleum for power). The best part about it is how much it simplifies the main cooling aquatuners - just set them to the freeze point of your liquid +14 and let the doors control how much cooling actually gets used. Might also try it with a more basic turbine room instead of combining it with my main industrial sauna. But it's going to be a while before I try it because next up I'm doing some variant on the "start with X dupes" challenge. Not going to start with anything as insane as 50-100, maybe more like 32, with the goal of actually sustaining the colony instead of it just being "how long can I survive".
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Feb 23, 2023 01:55
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I thought ice transferred heat much worse than water would though. Update on the 32 dupe challenge: everyone starved to death in all 3 test games so far. Can't get mealwood planted fast enough and the space you need means you're going to be in areas where some of it immediately gets temperature stifled. Might have to resort to microbe mushers but that ends up eating up a huge amount of labor that I need to be using for digging for algae, muckroot, and metals.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:36
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I had originally just been going with whatever 32 random dupes the mod threw at me (I'm using one that just lets you adjust the number of starting dupes), but after the first failure I rerolled anyone who was flatulent (the pressure of the random natural gas packets was really mucking up the mealwood and algae diffusers) and after the second I made sure to start with a few pre-rolled skills: hard digging, advanced research, cooking, and crop tending. Unfortunately I forgot to make sure I had advanced research on the 3rd attempt and ended up starving before I could get a farm station researched. Oxygen has generally been no problem. It only takes 6 and change algae diffusers at full capacity to keep 32 dupes breathing (and the difference early on is made up with oxylite and polluted water offgassing). The CO2 is more of a problem, one that I've been mitigating by digging a gigantic sink for it (and incidentally uprooting a lot of seeds and muckroot). Haven't lasted long enough to get a carbon skimmer running but I think I will need several in the long run. I've been doing these attempts on Rime so there's also the option of digging the sump into one of the colder biomes and freezing all the carbon dioxide. Which has also been the problem with food: the mealwood has been dying because of cold, not heat. You do start with a decent enough area that's warm enough but early on you need that space for your oxygen production, research, and bathrooms - you just don't have the time budget to put those anywhere but near the pod. That's why my strategy next time is going to be to run right at the fertilizer station, so I can get more mealwood out of the same area (and less labor per mealwood). And also to make the starting seeds go farther, which has been another problem. Bristle blossoms are actually even better once you can get past 7-8 cycles, less labor for more calories and they tolerate the cold slightly better than mealwood. But insulated tiles take a long time to get running so I end up starving before I can wall off the cold. The other thing was trying to get ranching going ASAP. By picking a dupe or two that starts with ranching it's just a matter of getting the research up. The basic design I follow uses mechanical airlocks as the floor for fancy automation stuff later on but I think rather than trying to futureproof a colony that may not last 10 more cycles, just getting a really basic one running to start meat production faster would be better. Plenty of time and labor available to dig out the room in advance. Should even be plenty of labor to run incubators without smart automation since you can just throw more hamster wheels at the power problem.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:21
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Coolnezzz posted:Echo Ridge Gaming did a 50 dupes for 50 cycles challenge and IIRC he used several microbe mushers in the beginning. Yeah this was actually what inspired me to try this (and the 75 dupe attempts that never got past about 25 cycles). What I'm doing differently, and part of why I'm starting with fewer dupes, is I want to turn this into a sustainable long-term colony, not just getting to 50 cycles by the thinnest margins. OzyMandrill posted:Francis John did a spaced out with double calories and went hard on hatch ranching from the start, focus on incubating eggs and getting many ranches up asap. Crews of dupes on wheels powering incubator banks giving exponential growth of food, which farming can't match. Yeah this is the longer-term plan, but I have to survive long enough to research ranching first. So the whole focus on farming is getting up to about cycle 20-30 when the ranches will be able to start providing some of the calories needed.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:57
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I have spent half an hour trying to google this and not finding any useful information: how many asteroids are there on a fully explored starmap? The wiki has a list of possible asteroid types but I'm not sure if one seed will have all of them, some of them, more than one of some of them? e: Another hour later and I did manage to figure it out. For future reference it's 8 for the "classic" style clusters, 9 for SO-style and 11 for moonlets. I was wondering this because now that I've managed to get the 32 dupe start stable over 100 cycles, I want to extend this to a "no printing dupes" challenge where you start with enough to put a colony of 4 on each asteroid, with that being the end goal, and one extra to send through the tear. So that will be 37 for a 9-asteroid cluster. But that doesn't include frozen friends, or the hermit. Starting with 35 shouldn't be much harder than starting with 32, right? Xerol fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 12:17
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The bummer is that I haven't found the personnel transporter yet. Materials, yes, personnel, no. It's in the top right of the screenshot, that crane arm thing is always in the upper teleporter room. SO maps also aren't very large in general so unless you're really hurting for labor it's worth sending exploratory tunnels/ladders around to reveal most of the map before too long. Also helps to know where your hot/cold biomes are so you can insulate off/tap into the temperature differences. Leaky oil fissures suck in the long term but they're actually pretty great for getting enough plastic to do a few turbines and comfy beds, or petroleum to fill cooling loops, which is why it's something I've been specifically looking for on new maps. You just won't be able to rely on them for power. ---- Challenge update: the 32 dupe base made it to around 105 cycles when the update broke something (probably mod-related) on the map and now it just won't load anymore. I will come back to it at some point (probably as the 35+2 settle-all-worlds challenge) but I've moved on to inventing even dumber challenges. I still have never beaten the game or done most achievements, I just find it fun to pick a limitation and play for a few hours on one map and then move on. The one I'm doing right now I call "Superspecialists" - you can only print dupes that have a single interest, and that skill is the only* one they are allowed to perform. They can take other skills on the tree (in particular to unlock prereqs for mechatronics/ranching, but also in general for the stat buffs if they seem useful), but can't put anything other than disabled priority on the labor list for them. They're also not allowed to start with any skills. The labor priority exceptions are: -Seems builders can dig out under build commands even if they have digging completely disabled. So they're not allowed to take any digging skills, and can only dig tier 0 tiles and only to dig what they're there to build. With digging disabled they just won't respond to any dig-only commands. You can cheese this by queueing up builds and then cancelling them once the digging is done, but in the spirit of the challenge I'm not going to do that. So there will be ladders everywhere. -Everyone gets "low" priority in life support and toggling, and "very low" in tidying, supplying, and storing, otherwise nothing would ever get done. But their selected skill is going to receive by far the highest priority and so they will only do those when their other jobs are all taken care of. -Mechatronics engineers are allowed lowest build priority once they have the skill unlocked and the tech is there for them to have jobs to do, otherwise sweepers etc. just never get built. -Diggers can get lowest priority on attacking until you have a rancher, then they are the only ones who can do that. -You can dig out one tile of sandstone before setting labor restrictions, so you have something to queue up ladders with. It's really made the starting choices interesting. You absolutely need to take a builder, otherwise nothing will ever happen. Similarly, you need an operator to run on your first power wheel, otherwise you'll never get coal generators researched**. For the third dupe it seems you have two realistic options: a digger, so you can do something that isn't spamming ladders everywhere to make living space (and eventually break out of the granite prison), or a researcher, so you can, well, do anything in the long run. I've ended up going with the ladder base and a researcher, because in my test games so far it's impossible to rely on getting any dupe with a single interest within the first 30 cycles or so, let alone one that's actually useful to the early base. You won't have anyone able to harvest planted or wild crops until you get a farmer, but anyone with supplying can plant crops and fully grown crops will drop on the ground after a few cycles of being fully grown. I might use a mod to reroll pod dupes since waiting until cycle 45 to get a 4th dupe and do anything other than build ladders and research isn't much of a game at all.
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Mar 2, 2023 21:52
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It has been fun in its own way, it's really made me focus on having a smaller, more compact base since you can't just core out the entire starting biome and call it a day. Having fewer dupes to provide food and oxygen for has made it a very relaxing experience (especially compared to the 32 dupe start). Unfortunately regardless of the starting conditions, this is a game where time is never on your side, so waiting 45-60 cycles to see a dupe that can get your food supply expanding or plastic production going before the base overheats is still a problem. I think as a compromise to keep most of the spirit of the challenge going I'm still not going to reroll most printing pod options, but allow myself to reroll for a specific dupe every 15 cycles. Wonder if I could start without a researcher then, instead go builder/digger/operator, and get the researcher on/before cycle 15. They won't have much to do until that happens, but at least we'll be able to plan out the basic parts of the base a bit quicker.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:47
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I used a mod that had way too many settings for what I needed, but one of them was to change the number of starting dupes. I think it was this one but I'm not at my main PC to check right now, but the screenshots look correct. Is there currently any way to get more supply closet items? I've started papering all my private bedrooms with various patterns using the few wallpaper skins I have now but I want more. And also the puft bed. e: Here's some of the patterns I came up with. Probably should've taken the screenshot before the beds went in, oh well. 
Xerol fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 02:16
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Really wish the game wouldn't force a restart when mods I have disabled are updated.
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Mar 21, 2023 09:59
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Until you get all the amenities up you might have morale issues, so it might be better to scrub a few dupes that have morale bonuses for digging and building and send them over to build a great hall, nice bathroom, etc. before sending everyone else over. You could probably leave a few people on the original base to teleport food over until the new colony gets self-sufficient. You might want to leave a skeleton crew there permanently anyway just to maintain things.
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Mar 23, 2023 19:17
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New update out, mostly meteor-related. Guess I'm starting a new map this weekend. Thought up another dumb challenge: limiting the number of tiles you're allowed to dig and/or build in a cycle. This limits the resources you have available in a couple of ways, by quantity and by location (in the early game) and makes using space efficiently more of a factor. Was thinking of starting with a limit of 40 per cycle, that gives you enough to hopefully get metal in the first cycle and enough minerals and space to build bathrooms, pitcher pumps, and beds. I think it will also help with focusing the base design and not just digging out large areas for the sake of it, as well as not tying up a lot of labor in digging out big empty areas. Carbon dioxide is probably going to be a problem to deal with early as well.
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Mar 31, 2023 04:31
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If it doesn't clear by opening the door you can get a dupe's head into the space by building a tile under it and making them stand there.
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Apr 28, 2023 13:09
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You can't send a dupe to a blacked out tile but if you can get their head into the blacked out area it should be revealed, so you can always do it from below unless there's neutronium in the way.
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Apr 29, 2023 21:19
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You click on the mailbox and select an item like you would display something on a pedestal. The food needs to meet a minimum quality (+4 I think) for it to show up, so you'll need to get a gas range together most likely.
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May 7, 2023 22:42
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I installed an airlock mod a long time ago and never looked back. This is the one I'm using: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2542160819 - if you force open an airlock it will still let liquid/gas through, and it doesn't insulate against temperature so you still need to set up vacuum locks in and out of hot/cold areas. ---- I've spent most of this extended weekend trying to plan and design an ideal base, one that is planned from the beginning and doesn't have compromises for short-term goals while also fulfilling a bunch of requirements.  Starting from the top left: Lab (top) | Glossy Dreckos Lab (bottom) | Regular Dreckos 5x General purpose / farming / ranching floors Temporary power / kitchen | Great hall Dead space / food storage | General item storage / printing pod 2x bedroom floors (8x private bedroom each) Atmo Docks / Nature Reserve | Suit repairs, clothing, etc. Combined pwater/co2/filtration system / bathroom | Water tank access And then the bottom levels are kind of combined into the main components of SPOM, cooling, and water tank.  All power runs up the left side of the base into transformers for each floor. Ignore the petroleum generator inside, that was temporary just to get things running and not currently active.  Although there's still residual heat from that, eventually it will even out. SPOM is semi-self-cooled, input water runs through the cooling brick first. This cools all the outgoing oxygen and then the rest of the base by association.  Not a lot of plumbing going on in the main base; if not for the bristle blossom farms I would need no pipes above the bathroom level. Excess bathroom water is sent to, in order of priority: Clean water to SPOM, clean water to lab, dirty water to thimble reeds. I've had 5 dupes most of this game so I haven't seen any water make it past the SPOM yet, and I'm like 80% done with research, so next time around I might send the water to the lab first. A mesh tile below the atmo suit checkpoint lets any accidents get picked up and input into the same system. Prepare yourself for this one. It's not as bad as it looks, but it's still pretty bad. This is one of those on-the-fly compromises I was trying to avoid and think I know how to do it better next time. So here's the gas pipes:   The center SPOM pipe is the main oxygen supply for the base, it should be enough for 16 dupes because they will be spending almost all of their time in atmo suits. The bridge mess is to get the priorities straight: first the main pipe splits 50/50 between left and right side of the base, the side pipes go first to 8 docks each and then overflow onto each of the side pipes. In theory the atmo docks could be running full blast all the time and there'd still be 1.4kg/s going into the main base (1kg from the main pipe and 200g from each of the side pipes). The hydrogen loop cools the food storage, and I have a temporary extra pipe to keep the dreckos' mealwood cool until I start moving enough oxygen through the base for the cooling to have enough of an effect.  I'm in the middle of transitioning from the old bedrooms (where I just had 3 cots stuffed into each of the future private bedroom areas until I had enough plastic). A bonus nature reserve in the top half of the main ladder shaft catches anyone heading to the great hall, while the one next to the atmo docks gets anyone leaving from or returning to the base. I think I will try to use peppernuts for all of my future nature reserves, since you can hang them from inside the room and still get the movement bonus from having tiles on the floor everywhere, and it's easier to leave natural tiles above when doing the early base. The lab incorporates all 4 lab buildings, local storage (also fed by conveyor sweeper) for dirt, water storage next to the advanced lab that never got filled, and wheezeworts for radiation science, also fed by sweeper so the dupes never need to stand in rads. When research is done I can rip out most of it and fit 7 geotuners in there. ---- So it's still not perfect by any stretch but I'm most of the way there. Need to do better scouting so I don't have to have that indent in the top left for an oil reservoir, need to prioritize water better so I have local water available in the lab for advanced research, and still need to get a permanent food solution (bristle blossoms are nice but they're chewing through my water and so far I've only found a cool steam vent for renewable sources, at least until I get a petroleum boiler online). I would also probably move the loom stuff so I can have atmo docks exiting both sides of the base; in any regard I would definitely lower the top of the water tank to be entirely below the bathroom level so I don't have to have that kludge gas pump in the bottom right cycling CO2 to the bathroom skimmer. This plan also doesn't include sustainable water, or power generation, but that's almost always going to be outside the main base so I didn't plan for it outside of having a large tank for storing water and power connections to the outside.
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Jul 5, 2023 10:17
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Working on a new dumb idea. My current petroleum boiler is running off a magma heat spike so it's just solidifying into solid tiles. Sure I'm losing half the mass when I mine those out but I also have a lot of magma sea. But the mined out debris doesn't transfer heat very quickly, even sitting on top of diamond window tiles. So how to get the heat out of the debris? Well a petroleum boiler doesn't really care where it gets the heat from, as long as it's transmittable into the oil. The obvious solution is to put it on conveyor rails and run it through some kind of medium to extract the heat. But gases just don't transfer heat fast enough nor do they have enough mass to have any significant amount of heat capacity. I could just run it through solid steel tiles but that's a lot of steel and also only 100kg per tile. The medium also needs to handle temperature ranges from ~400C up to ~1400C where the debris is coming from. There is exactly one liquid in the game that is stable inside that temperature range: lead, from about 325 to 1750C. I'm still in the process of putting it together and I really should test this in a sandbox world but according to the wiki liquid lead sits at 9970kg per tile. First problem: how do you liquefy that much lead? I don't have thermium, I've barely even gone to the surface on this map except to put some CO2 vents in space. Well, the good news is I don't need to liquefy 10 tons per tile from the start. So what I'm doing is manually mopping some 400C petroleum out of my existing boiler, and dumping it into the petroleum chamber of the new boiler. This will transfer the heat to a lead tempshift plate. Once I can get 800kg of lead to stay liquid, I can start running debris through it and build more tempshift plates until I have over a full tile of molten lead. Then I can start metering more lead into the chamber until it fills up.
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Jul 8, 2023 12:20
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Yeah I've been watching that series. I just didn't have any convenient heat sources anywhere near where I wanted to melt the lead. And it would've broken any pump I could use to move it. It took a lot of fiddling and a lot of lead but I eventually got it running.  Molten lead is indeed 10 tons per tile. That's 120 tons of molten lead. It took quite a bit of heat to get it all melted but after about halfway I was able to dump the rest in all at once. In addition to running the hot debris through, I'm also looping diamond through a conveyor rail in the still-liquid magma (guess I could also run it inside conveyor rails inside diamond window tiles?) for a lot of extra heat. This thing holds so much energy it could probably run a quad boiler. I don't actually have conveyor filters yet (haven't gone to space and used all my local data banks on pixel packs) but eventually the plan is to send the diamond directly back to the magma once it's too cool for the heat chamber (440 degrees C seems to work best for that) and the debris would go through the counterflow. It comes out at not much above the input oil temperature, 110 vs. 105C in my case. It's certainly a nice way to get all the energy out of hot items if you want to use them elsewhere. There's a gold volcano right above this boiler and I might feed the hot gold into this too. Xerol fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 03:41
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FJ just used that mechanic to drain the entire water planet into a handful of tiles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v893Kmmy5I4 Reading the preview update notes... quote:Care packages for seeds, food, critters, and eggs which require you to first discover them are now available after cycle 500. Does that mean they will only appear after cycle 500? I'm also not entirely clear on which items are part of that category, like I've had omelets show up before even researching the grill before. But things like plastic and lime seem to only show up after you have some, and not being able to get any out of the pod until cycle 500 seems pretty bad. Hopefully this gets rolled back and/or made configurable. A high temperature plastic seems really good, being able to run transit tubes through warm areas or using radbolt joint plates in reactors are both things that are difficult-to-impossible currently. Not sure if waxing transit tubes is going to be worth the effort. I've never actually bothered with gassy moos since they're a pain to get in the first place and seem like a greater pain to manage once you have them. Hopefully we get a new critter or morph that can be milked so the milking station isn't just for cows - maybe a grubgrub milk that can be turned into fertilizer? Then again, the shearing station is still just for dreckos. Getting renewable bleach stone without having to deal with pufts is going to be amazing especially for hot salt water geysers (which can be fed back into more bleach stone once geotuned to emit just steam and salt). I guess you could also use this to get renewable chlorine if you don't have a chlorine gas vent, which makes the moos a little easier I suppose. The critter mood changes sound interesting, it makes it seem like it's not going to be a strict binary "can/cannot lay eggs" thing and instead a balance of multiple factors. Or maybe it's still a binary thing but you can stack different beneficial factors to make the maximum ranch size bigger? Critter traps being metal instead of plastic is such a nice change, seems like they want to patch/deprecate the "wrangle excess" exploit anyway so this will help get away from relying on that (although I think tamed critters should always be wrangleable). Critters thinking more often so they don't starve is double-edged, it might make performance even worse in large lategame colonies.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:31
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Ugato posted:Changing overcrowding mechanics to have some granularity would be a nice (if small) early game boon for before you have automatic egg disposal tech. I think it might be indicative of a desire to provide alternatives to some of the more exploitative mechanics which I do try to avoid but sometimes it's just so far ahead of any other way to do things that it's like there's no real choice. I need a beefier computer, I'm at 27 dupes in my current challenge run (out of what will eventually be 95) and with just 3 full ranches of stone hatches I'm getting the dupes zoning out even on slowest speed. I'm starting to transition over to base stability and being able to focus on coring out and eventually filling in the map to cut down on calculations, but I'm not quite there yet. It really sucks that I can't use ranching in the long term because it's going to take me a long time to get up to any kind of sustainable farming (basically relying on slime meteors to keep mushrooms going for now). One plan I have to make this many dupes playable is to constrain groups of 8 into their own self-contained bases, and the vast majority of dupes will only have access to other self-contained areas via transit tube. But that's a long way away, I'm probably not even going to have atmo suits before cycle 250.
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Jul 26, 2023 22:05
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LegoMan posted:I'm using 2 ATs with pWater cooling loop to try to cool a water geyser (95C) but when using the coolant to also keep turbines cool I can't ever get the temp low enough to make it worth doing. Would adding another AT help or would that just make more heat for the turbines to deal with? An aquatuner using water (or pwater) as coolant can, at best, cool 10kg of water by 14C per second. The average hot water geyser has an output of 3kg/s including dormant periods, but that can be as much as 5-7kg/s during active periods - let's just call it 5kg for easy math. Your two aquatuners are going to be able to cool that by 56C. Aquatuners are technically 100% efficient in that they heat the surroundings by the exactly the same amount of DTU removed from the fluid. This is a best case scenario that completely ignores waste heat, power generation heat, etc - so while the geyser is active you can expect to get water no cooler than about 40C. So a third AT will help if you're trying to get it down to, say, bristle blossom temperatures, but you'll actually need four to get it that cool. Steam turbines also spit out 10% of the heat they delete as local waste heat, plus 4k DTU waste. So for maximum efficiency you want to be running your turbines as close to 200C as you can - since you're going to be wanting to delete the same amount of DTUs regardless, running the turbine hotter means you delete more per game tick and therefore generate less waste on average. But I would recommend using a separate aquatuner to keep the turbines cool - it shouldn't need to run 100% of the time (especially if you use a buffer tank for that coolant loop). But, if you factor in the dormant period and want to give it a hundred cycles or two to reach a steady state (think very large tank of water) then two ATs will cool that 3kg/s by 93.3C - just above freezing. tldr: Cool a larger pool of water for temperature stability and 2 ATs should be more than enough to handle both the turbines and the hot water. Now there's another option (which will get even more attractive next update) - geotuners. Five geotuners will raise the output to 195C for the cost of 125g/s bleach stone (long-term average) and also increase the output by 50% (so about 4.5kg/s total, 7.5-10.5kg/s active). Suddenly this is making a ridiculous amount of power - four or five turbines running at near maximum temperature (probably a bit over 200C when factoring in aquatuners). The turbines will still output this at 95C, same as the original water output, while making enough power to run 3 aquatuners to cool the turbine output and a bit extra for running the geotuners and turbine cooling (the long term math adds up the same as well, if you add a third AT - water coming out as close to freezing as you want). I love doing this with salt water geysers, since you also get free desalination out of it (and with the update, relatively free bleach stone). If your map has rust you can use the salt from this to run rust deoxidizers and get oxygen for your base and feed the chlorine to squeaky pufts to renew the bleach stone, but puft ranching is a nightmare and I can't wait for the update. Something else to consider, if you're using electrolyzers for oxygen, cooling it much below 70C doesn't help a lot for that, since the oxygen comes out at 70C minimum. Cooling the oxygen output with an aquatuner will give better returns on power input, and even one aquatuner should be able to (again given a long enough time average) cool that geyser output and the turbine - so you can use the second aquatuner for cooling the oxygen, and probably still have some cooling left over. (I did a writeup on a combined cooling build that cools a full Rodriguez output and provides deep freeze for food storage.) My quick head math says that the average geyser should be able to run electrolyzers for about 25 dupes which is more than enough for most sane playthroughs. If you need the water for crops etc. you can still use the methods above to cool it further, or preferentially use other, less hot, water sources first and dump most of the geyser output into the electrolyzers. Anything but toilet output would work for this, but will probably require some cooling regardless (unless it's, e.g. a cool slush geyser). If you're using it for oil wells, it doesn't need to be cooled very much at all. Xerol fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 00:14
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Unless you're feeding it to oil wells you'll still want to cool the turbine output (which just brings it back to 95C) which will put a decent load on the aquatuners (plus cooling whatever power generation you use to power the number of aquatuners needed). Running a smelter coolant loop filled with something that can handle 200C+ (crude oil or petroleum usually) through the room also does a lot (and is actually power-positive when smelting steel). Generally you'll just want to pipe the water into the heat room rather than building around the geyser since they tend to be a bit finicky around steam and often overpressurize when erupting even if it doesn't seem like they should be (plus you can pipe in water from every geyser on the map, throw in some 99C water from a cool steam vent, etc.). This is basically the industrial sauna concept, throw in whatever buildings you have that generate heat and can be made of steel - batteries, rock crusher, etc. - then recycle the heat generated for extra power. Of course you don't necessarily need to extract the water immediately either, you could just keep pressurizing the room until the liquid vent overpressurizes because you have over one ton of steam per tile. Then just pull out and cool the turbine output as it is needed, rather than trying to constantly cool the full output of the geyser. Xerol fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 07:42
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At work so this is just rough head math. Pwater boils at about 120C, meaning it needs to be heated by at least 90C to turn into steam, but you need to get it up to at least 125C for a steam turbine to be able to turn it back into 95C clean water. The average geyser is going to have 3kg/s long-term average output. Assuming you're using water/pwater as aquatuner coolant, which has the same SHC, you can pretty much compare 1:1 the heat removed from the coolant by the aquatuner and the heat added to the surrounding medium. This is always 14C per 10kg (assuming full pipes) per second. For ease of math let's say you're raising the pwater from 30C to 128C (7x14 = 98 degrees) using 7 aquatuners. Since you only need to heat 3kg/s instead of 10kg/s, those will have 30% duty cycle (this is also just equivalent to running 2.1 aquatuners 100% of the time). Those aquatuners are also cooling the 95C output water from the turbines, which is going to be 99% of the input pwater (so close enough to equal to not really be a factor) by the same amount: 3kg/s by 98C. So you can get by running 3 aquatuners (which will not be on all the time, since 2 isn't enough but just barely) which will heat the water to 128C, the turbines eat the heat and cool it back to 95C, and the aquatuners use their coolant to cool that output down to -3C (oops I broke your pipes). Except: we haven't cooled the steam turbines yet. Since steam turbines emit 10% of their deleted heat as waste this isn't too difficult to figure out either: we're cooling 3kg/s of water by 33C, so using a coolant with the same SHC will heat 3kg/s of coolant by 3.3C. Since this is probably the same coolant we're running through the turbine outputs, we can average that in to get total output of 3kg/s clean water at 0.3C. This might still be too much cooling, though, especially if you want to feed the water to bristle blossoms, but there's plenty of ways to make use of excess cooling (it's really only things like sour gas boilers that end up with an excess of cooling as an actual problem to solve). This still doesn't account for the power generation to run 2.1 aquatuners, environmental heating/cooling losses, rounding errors, flaking, or whatever other weird things the game does. Also if you're using a more efficient coolant (nuclear waste or supercoolant) the only difference is really that you're throwing less power at the problem, since the aquatuners are moving more total heat energy out of the better coolant, but the rest of the math remains the same (and nuclear waste limits how much you can cool it down since that solidifies at something like 45C iirc). Regarding it being a closed system, it's not going to generate enough power to run itself (in this scenario the turbines are barely running, 2 turbines at 75% duty cycle at 128C is only going to be like 350W average) but in terms of heating/cooling it will just barely work. You're going to be throwing a ton of external power at the issue though, and there are better ways to make the heat if you want to purify water via boiling. Maybe this isn't a problem if you're running an open bottom electrolyzer for hydrogen or a petroleum boiler, but it's a lot of energy to throw at heating up and then cooling down a lot of water when a sieve + small, partial-duty aquatuner will do the same for much, much less power (only scenario might be if you didn't have any sand, but that's what those other rock crusher recipes you never use are for). 2.1 aquatuners is going to be 2,520W, let's assume the turbines take 350W off of that, so 2,170W net consumption. To run the 3kg/s geyser output through a sieve is going to be 60% duty cycle on the 120W sieve, so 72W, and then to cool it to the same 0.3C is going to be about 0.6 aquatuners consuming about 750W, for a total of 822W, way less than half of the other method, enough extra power to run a smelter full time even. This is why I mentioned industrial saunas - since you're already throwing power at those buildings, you're just turning the waste heat from them into more power.
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Aug 3, 2023 19:04
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Weird, the wiki doesn't list any hot polluted water geysers as part of the ones in the game. I thought the only ones that were 95C were the regular water and salt water ones.
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Aug 3, 2023 19:42
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It would still apply to salt water except for the amount of output, since some of it gets converted to salt. You generally don't really care about what temperature the salt comes out at, even if you're feeding it to temperature-sensitive crops the amounts are too small to make a real difference there, so if anything it comes out better because you don't have to cool as much as you heat (providing you with either more extra cooling or less power costs).
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Aug 3, 2023 20:21
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If you use a one tile infinite food storage you can use one of those pressure plates to measure how much you have and turn off sweepers in your farms. But you'd also have to lock out dupes from those rooms and remove any access to fertilizers from your sweepers. Way easier to just freeze everything and overproduce.
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Aug 3, 2023 21:31
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Yeah heat is usually #3 on the list of things that kill bases (after oxygen and food). If you have radiant pipes unlocked you can run some through your farming area and your main water tank, which will help for a bit; even without radiant pipes you can still move some temperature around with regular pipes. Insulate off any areas of your base that generate heat - your dupes can take a little heat, even if the plants can't. This includes batteries which are often an unexpected source of heat, but also power generation, kitchen, and pretty much any machine that makes things. You also want to wall off areas that are naturally warmer, and/or leave as much abyssalite in place as you can; doors will conduct heat but vacuum won't, so it's very common to have double liquid locks (or sealed airlocks, if you run one of those mods) with a vacuum in between to traverse between hot and cold areas. The hydrogen/chlorine/drecko biomes are the most likely warmer biome you'll encounter early on. For a quick fix you can dig out 800kg of ice (probably about 2-3 tiles) and build a tempshift plate out of ice in the problematic area. This will almost instantly melt into water so make sure it won't leak out into areas that would be problematic to get wet; once the temperature of the water and the surrounding tiles evens out you can mop it up. Ice, like every material in full tile form, loses half its mass when excavated. So the ideal situation is to run heat directly into the ice biome, melting the ice in place, since then you retain the full amount of thermal mass (and also get twice as much water out in the end). It can also help to run your oxygen pipes through the ice biome, but for the most part you want to be using liquids to move heat around. You can just run pipes through the open spaces in the biome, but this has the issue of having to constantly rebuild pipes as the ice melts, since air won't conduct the heat very quickly. I found it's best to drip the water over the ice, and pump the water back out the bottom later.  The ice biome is just a patch; eventually you'll run out of cold stuff and be back into having heat problems again. So you'll want to look into sustainable cooling solutions. An aquatuner cooling loop is generally the best way, but to really do that effectively you need steel. Next best thing is a cool liquid geyser of some kind (polluted water or salt water are most common); these can provide a decent amount of cooling but can't really sustain a large base long-term. Don't bother with liquid CO2 geysers unless you need the CO2 for something; the thermal mass is just too minuscule to make a difference.
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Nov 25, 2023 22:06
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:til; liquids from a reservoir don't need a pump to get things moving just an output. the basic signal switch can be toggled manually and would have saved some dupe time if I had incorporated them earlier This is a general concept to get the hang of with both liquid and gas pipes - any pipe that has both an output and an input on it will cause the fluid to flow from output to input. If you have a loop of pipe, and the pipe is completely full except for one tile, you can make it flow by having a bridge somewhere along it. This also applies to cooling loops when you get to aquatuners.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:56
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OzyMandrill posted:Sounds like you are doing really well without I think by hot room they meant "a place to run the refinery building without boiling the base" and not a petroleum boiler. Also thinking about how heat is normally a new player problem but an experienced player's resource, and then I rolled this map:  Feels like it's going to have to be hatches and coal power to make any heat at all until I can tap the oil wells. And I'll probably have to melt the oil biome. Seed (easy difficulty - change game settings if you want normal): pre:V-SFRZ-C-2119834991-HU4JJ-3A Xerol fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 23:47
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 07:16 |
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Even on geodormant? I haven't gone very far but I haven't even seen any neutronium in 30 cycles. e: Also desperately digging towards the only pacu I can see before his pond freezes.
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Dec 3, 2023 01:47
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