the all new age of slgmar thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > the all new age of slgmar thread

Kung Fu Fist Fuck: Aug 9, 2009

age of sigmar, or aos if youre nasty, is the often maligned successor to games workshops long running warhammer fantasy battle tabletop miniature game. the transition to the new system has been a rough one to be sure. the destruction of the old world setting, and the squatting of some factions, along with sweeping changes to rules that make it play more like 40k instead of being its own distinct thing have left a lot of people bitter or disappointed

however, there are those out there that actually enjoy the new rules, settings, and factions. they may or may not have valid points, but i think its fair that they should be able to make them without being relentlessly mocked. not to say criticism is verboten, but try to be a bit more nuanced here than in the death thread

if you are dissatisfied with this op written by someone who has no vested interest in age of sigmar, and has never even played a game of warhammer fantasy outside of vermintide and the total war game, the old op is much more indepth and you can read it here

:justpost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SjBAbAvbk

https://i.imgur.com/jtnREvA.mp4

behold, the worst opinion

Tiger Millionaire posted:

WHFB lore was all generic fantasy poo poo, the age of sigmar lore reads like it is a mish mash of every cultures creationist legends and fuckin owns.

Kung Fu Fist Fuck fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jan 26, 2018

# ? Feb 26, 2017 03:17

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 08:26

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

If TKIY's friend is gonna keep making him play Age of Sigmar at least there'll be a place for him to talk about it.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 03:28

SteelMentor: Oct 15, 2012; TOXIC

Age of Sigmar is cool and good, actually.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 04:26

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

Here's some homebrew Mordheim-like rules for Age of Sigmar:

Age of Sigmar: Hinterlands

Does anyone have a Hinterlands gang? I kind of want to make a couple, I know some people who would play.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 04:58

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Xarbala posted:

If TKIY's friend is gonna keep making him play Age of Sigmar at least there'll be a place for him to talk about it.

Is he still my friend if he makes me play AoS?

Anyhow, since I can't post it in the old thread, behold my AoS battle report. Might as well put some content up in this business. Reposted from the Death Thread because it was open:

*****

Time for a little :effortless:

Here is my long critique via BatRep. I will attempt to give an honest critique of the system but to be up front there were a few clear issues I encountered:

New army versus old army and the obvious power difference for the points
Unfamiliarity with the units and their rules
Playing against an experienced opponent
Tactical blunders on my part, I am not good at games

Anyhow, the mission was on a 4' x 4' table, with one piece of terrain in each quarter and an objective in the centre of each deployment zone. The objective was to hold both of the objectives by having only your unit within 6" at any time. If there was no winner at the end of turn five you would add up kill points. Knowing that my units were slow rear end dwarves I opted to castle up, use withering firepower against (in order) enemy shooters, characters, then infantry blocks. Since you can shoot into combat, all I needed was my blocks to hold them in place and then shoot them to death which seemed more like Skaven tactics but whatever.

Here is the table layout, the objectives are the big skull tower and the staircase thingy. None of the terrain was special we just kept it simple. If you want to see lovingly painted models, go elsewhere.

The stone walls are the table edges, this was just to mark off the 4' x 4' area.

My list was:

Leaders
Belegar Ironhammer (140)
- General
Grimm Burloksson (100)

Battleline
10 x Dwarf Warriors (100)
- Shield & Axe or Hammer
10 x Dwarf Warriors (100)
- Shield & Axe or Hammer

Units
10 x Quarrellers (120)
- None
10 x Thunderers (120)
- None

War Machines
Cannon (180)
Organ Gun (120)

Total: 980/1000

The organ gun + Grimm Burlocksson combo should have been putting out 4d6 shots with -1 rending pretty much every turn, and the cannon is 2 shots a turn at d6 wounds with -2 rending. Should have been pretty nasty. Should have been.

My opponents list:

Leaders
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- General
Tzaangor Shaman (120)

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)

Total: 990/1000

The Blue Horrors were off the table, they are summoned when the pink horrors die. At least in matched play, summoned units have to be paid for from points. Basically putting a new unit on the table cost points, but healing models back into a unit does not as long as you don't go over the original size. This means that healing is super loving good, and Dwarves don't get any. Disciples of Tzeentch get a poo poo ton. Imagine that. This also becomes important later on when the Blue Horrors do show up.

Anyhow, I deployed like I would in WHFB which is tactical error #1. I didn't think LOS would matter that much since anything can be targeted and TLOS is almost impossible to avoid, so I have my warmachines on the hill with the babysitting engineer. I call it Fort Fuckoff. All are welcome.

My opponent deploys heavy on my right side so I put one warrior block on the right of Fort Fuckoff and the other on the left. My Thunderers and Quarrelers both get shields for free so I leave them on the left to hold a flank. They both have good range (Grimm also gives one unit experimental weapons so my Thunderers had 24" to play with) so they could shoot anything that came across the board. Belegar camped out with the warriors to give a large AoE bravery boost and a little more counterpunch to anything approaching the good Fort.

Now since he deployed less units he gets first turn apparently. Not a bad thing, he has to come forward then I can open up with my artillery and hopefully pull off the double turn to shoot twice. But here is where I learn important things. This is the end of turn 1:

See how I have no crew on the Organ Gun? Here is what happened. He flies his disc arrow dudes over the buildings and right into the middle of the table. He reads off a couple of rules and then starts pulling off his special 'Destiny Dice'. Destiny Dice are a thing that Disciples of Tzeentch get where he rolls 9 dice before the game and puts them to the side. He can use those dice instead of rolling at any time he likes, but each die only once per game. So his three arrow dudes shoot, and target the warmachine crew. Yes, you can target warmachine crew. I have no idea why they even put stats on the warmachine itself (4 wounds, 4+ save) when you can just kill off the whole crew (3 wounds, 5+ save). Crew get a +1 cover bonus to their save when within 1" of their machine at least.

So he rolls six dice to hit and gets a couple of hits. This is where the bullshit starts. He tells me that if any roll is a six, it deals d3 Mortal Wounds. Mortal wounds do not need to roll to hit, wound, and allow no armour saves. He gets no sixes on his attacks so he grabs one from his Destiny Dice. Now he is guaranteed to get d3 unsavable wounds against my three crewmen. He pulls a five off his Destiny Dice so he's guaranteed the full 3. I have no crew left on the organ gun so it will not fire once all game.

To recap:

Guaranteed first turn
Guaranteed to be in range of anything he wants in turn one due to 12" deployment zone + 16" movement + 16" weapon range
Guaranteed dice results from Destiny Dice
Guaranteed wounds from Mortal Wounds because Dwarves have no mitigation against them

His 160pt unit flew across the board and wiped a 180pt warmachine off the table and I had exactly zero player agency in the result. Not particularly impressive for the start of the game. His Shaman was right behind them boosting their to-hit rolls as well, so it was just bad luck that he needed to use two of his Destiny Dice. The sorceror cast a spell putting 2 or 3 Mortal Wounds on Belegar. Again, no wound roll, no armour save just take these wounds thanks. On my turn I returned the favour by charging down the hill with my rightmost warrior squad and Belegar. I needed 7" and 8" respectively but made both charges and kicked the disc archers teeth in. The sorcerer was kept exactly 3.0001" behind the archers so he could not be piled into or otherwised engaged. If you wipe a unit out in combat you just stand there, no reform or anything so I couldn't pull him into the combat zone.

Critique time - the 3" bubble is super important which I now realize. If you start your turn within 3" of an enemy unit you can only stand still or retreat, which is a regular move but you have to end up outside the 3" bubble and further away from any model in the unit you started close to. So by shaping your units and positioning them you can prevent movement or force your opponent to engage where you want. In fact, standing still and taking a charge is usually the better option then charging because you can pull unit shaping tricks to 'trap'. There is a tactics article on the Warhammer Community page that basically goes into the details here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/14/tactical-toolbox-charging/

If someone was to ask me where the movement tactics are in AoS, this is basically it. It's bumping 3" bubbles of control forward until you can force the engagement you want.

Anyhow here is the end of my turn 1:

The disc archers are gone, the sorceror is just beyond my reach, and the rest of his units are piling forward. I've marched up the left warrior unit, but they are going slow since they get rerolls on their armour saves if they do not run or charge due to forming a shield wall. My cannon and shooting units have done some good work and I sniped off his Ogre general. TLOS, no look out sir, no way to hide your characters. They are gonna die I guess. I killed a Tzaangor or two as well. Now here comes the manpile.

So the sorceror scoots away and the pink horrors have hit my right warrior unit. The Tzaangors hit the left one and start wrapping around. You'll notice that on the left side of Belegar and his warriors, there is a semicircle of new units. This is the Pink Horror/Blue Horror thing and it's a little more bullshit. The first five Pink Horrors I kill spawn two Blue Horrors each, but he can place them anywhere he wants within 6". What he's done is forced the warriors on the left to freeze because you can only pile in to the closest enemy model (which will be the Blue Horrors) but you can't split unit coherence, so they can't pile into the different unit. By selectively removing wounded Pink Horrors he freezes them there. Belegar could kill the blue horrors but unless I wipe them out, Pink Horrors that die will keep topping up the unit (instead of placing a new unit which does cost points, they can heal the closest Blue Horror unit which costs no points, remember), but Belegar can't pile into the Pink Horrors because they are not the closest enemy. Belegar is now also frozen in place, and eating more Mortal Wounds from the Sorcerer on Disc.

So I have to kill the pink horrors, and the Dwarves are fortunately much better warriors then they are. I kill the unit down by four, and they have something like one or two left. He now has to take a Battleshock test, which really works like a crumbling did back in WHFB. Roll a die (just one) add the number of models killed this turn, compare it to your Bravery and then for each point you are higher, one more model flees the battle. He needs a 1 to stay in the fight, so I should wipe the rest out!

...remember the Destiny Dice? He pulls a one out. Oh, also if Pink Horrors roll a one on a Battleshock test they get back d6 models. He grabs a four from the Destiny Dice. gently caress.

All this time the Tzaangor are murderpunching my other Dwarf unit. Since the controlling player always chooses how to allocate wounds, he keeps allocating wounds to guys with some sort of Chaos shields that give a 6+ to any wounds before their armour save. He can allocate every wound taken to the shield dudes first, 6+ any of them before taking regular armour saves after that. Not too bullshitty but a bit funny. It's like allocating wounds in 40k to a guy with an Invul save, but you can't bypass it by shooting from a different angle and gets to invul every wound first before anything else happens . It's only a 6+ but it did negate a cannon shot somewhere in this turn.

The synergies of the new units is also on display at this point. By having 20 models in the unit and having the sorcerer within 9" he's getting between 3 and 4 attacks per model, plus a beak attack. Sure this is an expensive unit but they are also 2W models, get a damage spell as a bonus from their banner, carry mixed equipment to maximize attacks, have rending attacks, and are faster than my Dwarves. So double the wounds, plus all of those extras for 80% more points. Not very balanced.

During the next turn, I also find out that the Sorcerer has a spell that does D3 Mortal Wounds to my unit, and heals back D3 models to the Tzaangors, so he has healing on top of everything else, and he can bring them back with any equipment he wants so he always heals back the 6++ sheild dudes. I'm forced to move my Quarrelers and Thunderers over to my objective in an attempt to fend off the instant win. I actually pull off the double turn on turn three but my one cannon shot is 6++ off the Tzaangors and the Thundered and Quarrelers just can't do enough damage to reduce the Tzaangor numbers (and of course they are healing). My general and Warriors finish off the Pink Horrors, but the Blue Horrors simply retreat out of range and start shooting the last wound or two off of my General. The sorcerer leaps over and mauls my Cannon crew.

The Tzaangors plow into the newly positioned Quarrelers and it's just a matter of time now. I've killed probably 17 or 18 of them, but there are still more than 10 on the table due to healing.

I plan to run Grimm and the Thunderers over to the tower as well, but my opponent gets the double turn, kills the Quarrelers and it's game over.

So tactically, issues I had:

Failed to keep units within range of the objective which was inexcusable
Didn't really realize how fragile warmachines were, should have hidden them behind the hill and moved them since they can apparently move and fire now?
Got tarpitted hard by the Pink/Blue Horrors
Target priority should have been on the Shaman instead of the Tzaangors early
Didn't properly prepare for the risk of the double turn

Part of this comes from not realizing what the units can do, but there is also a pretty obvious disparity between compendium armies (old lists) and the new hotness. Stuff like the Destiny Dice are stupidly powerful and do not scale to small games, he gets 9 dice everytime. Shooting into combat wasn't as bad as I thought, since shooting seems much weaker than melee for the points, but Characters and Warmachine crew are ridiculously easy to kill.

Tactically, I think I learned more about how this game is supposed to be played, and WHFB it ain't. It is literally a game of min-maxing your list to maximize the most broken abilities of your units which isn't exactly news, but the factions are so small you only have ten units or so to select from. Internal balance doesn't really matter when you only have two Battleline choices and one is clearly much better than another. They fixed summoning with the points cost, but healing is extremely powerful, especially when it brings back multiple multiwound models.

I need to do more playing to figure out how the 3" bubbles work. I've read that article I linked above and I get it. That's where the tactics are in this game, limited as they are.

The double turn was not particularly powerful for me (some unlucky dice helped this) but was game-winning for my opponent. I would always decline to take the double turn unless I could absolutely guarantee that it would be game changing. Decline, decline, decline until you can win the game with it.

Speaking of guarantees, in a game where you randomize with dice rolling, there are far too many guaranteed outcomes. Mortal wounds, first turn selection, unit abilities and bullshit like the Destiny Dice. My Dwarves had literally *none* of these, no Mortal Wound dealing, no mitigation against Mortal Wounds, etc... This goes back to min/maxing the lists but that is not an AoS unique problem.

TL;DR
The game is better than at launch but still flawed. Summoning is okay, healing is a bit broken. Mortal wounds remove all player agency and have no mitigation for 95% of units/armies. Internal balance in factions is bad, external balance across armies is worse.

I'm going to proxy some games with Sylvaneth and see if they are balanced better against the new books. I do this for science, and I do it for you my lovely goons.

This was rambling as gently caress , so are there any questions?

# ? Feb 26, 2017 05:14

Kung Fu Fist Fuck: Aug 9, 2009

your friend seems like a very rude person to act like that in a casual game

# ? Feb 26, 2017 05:15

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

your friend seems like a very rude person to act like that in a casual game

He is a good guy, but he reads gravitates to netlisting a bit.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 05:17

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

I'm still smh over what happened to that organ gun crew but what can you do

besides keep the gun hidden behind that hill and play peekaboo i guess

# ? Feb 26, 2017 05:37

Munin: Nov 14, 2004

TKIY posted:

This was rambling as gently caress , so are there any questions?

Which version of the organ gun did you get away with using in the end?

# ? Feb 26, 2017 14:08

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Munin posted:

Which version of the organ gun did you get away with using in the end?

I ran everything from the Battletome which had the better one.

Based on the points, I figure that's the one that I should have used. The Ironweld organ gun is considerably worse than the cannon but the points in the book are quite a bit higher.

Still it was completely unclear, I'm still not sure what I was supposed to do.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 17:26

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

I heard this game was real bad

please put this in the OP, cheers OP

https://i.imgur.com/jtnREvA.mp4

# ? Feb 26, 2017 22:14

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

He's coming

# ? Feb 27, 2017 01:32

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Eyyyyy it's my man! My man with the slam!!!

# ? Feb 27, 2017 03:16

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

mango sentinel posted:

He's coming

S L A M B O
L
A
M
B
O

# ? Feb 27, 2017 03:39

Pierzak: Oct 30, 2010

This sure is a thread.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 04:00

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Pierzak posted:

This sure is a thread.

Slambo?

# ? Feb 27, 2017 04:05

Bombogenesis: Mar 27, 2010; Mekkatorque 2016; Dinosaur Gum

TKIY posted:

This was rambling as gently caress , so are there any questions?

Thank you for your sacrifice of time. This was actually a nice read/analysis from a different perspective.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 06:24

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

Come on and SLAM(BO)
And welcome to the JAM(BO)

# ? Feb 27, 2017 06:29

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Moola posted:

I heard this game was real bad

please put this in the OP, cheers OP

https://i.imgur.com/jtnREvA.mp4

This upsets me because it cuts off right before the bit where that one last guy trips over, which is a funny bit.

But the players were probably up too late and had to go to bed.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 08:15

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

mango sentinel posted:

He's coming

Aw heck yeah!

# ? Feb 27, 2017 10:02

Cinnamon Bear: Aug 29, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

its a pretty boring model honestly but the name completely elevates it

i'm ready to jambo

# ? Feb 27, 2017 13:21

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Cinnamon Bear posted:

its a pretty boring model honestly but the name completely elevates it

i'm ready to jambo

It's pure nostalgia. That doesn't make it bad though. Sometimes simple is good.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 13:44

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

90s Cringe Rock posted:

This upsets me because it cuts off right before the bit where that one last guy trips over, which is a funny bit.

But the players were probably up too late and had to go to bed.

Tripping guy is good but blue dude that hits another soldier then goes into airplane pose rigor mortis on the ground is also great.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 14:32

Cat Face Joe: Feb 20, 2005; goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes

excellent, ive been waiting for death thread 2: the second death thread

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:27

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Is Slambo resin?

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:41

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

I wish Dagorhir massed battles is as cool as that gif. Age of Slgmar 1 Dagorhir 0.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:43

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

Cat Face Joe posted:

excellent, ive been waiting for death thread 2: the second death thread

Slgmar thread 2: Electric Slamboloo

# ? Feb 27, 2017 17:40

Cat Face Joe: Feb 20, 2005; goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes

Moola posted:

Slgmar thread 2: Electric Slamboloo

# ? Feb 27, 2017 17:41

Dr Hemulen: Jan 25, 2003

mango sentinel posted:

He's coming

He actually looks pretty OK without the GW paintjob.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 17:46

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

TKIY posted:

Is Slambo resin?

Yeah he's finecast.

It's the first time working with resin instead of metal or plastic and I'm not sure how I feel. I appreciate that it's easier to clean up sprue joins but there's so much more flash in general, and I did manage to gently caress up the bottom of his torso plate a little. I also like how plastic fits together a little better.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:34

darnon: Nov 8, 2009

Resin has its advantages mainly doing undercuts without requiring splitting up into more pieces. I got some of the new gryph hounds and the paws/claws have noticeable flat areas and stepping instead of good detail.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:50

TKIY: Nov 6, 2012; Grimey Drawer

I just signed up for an AoS escalation league. Weep not for me, I seek knowledge to share with others.

My body is a roadmap of pain, and pain has it's valves.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 19:54