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Xarbala posted:If TKIY's friend is gonna keep making him play Age of Sigmar at least there'll be a place for him to talk about it. Is he still my friend if he makes me play AoS? Anyhow, since I can't post it in the old thread, behold my AoS battle report. Might as well put some content up in this business. Reposted from the Death Thread because it was open: ***** Time for a little  Here is my long critique via BatRep. I will attempt to give an honest critique of the system but to be up front there were a few clear issues I encountered:
Anyhow, the mission was on a 4' x 4' table, with one piece of terrain in each quarter and an objective in the centre of each deployment zone. The objective was to hold both of the objectives by having only your unit within 6" at any time. If there was no winner at the end of turn five you would add up kill points. Knowing that my units were slow rear end dwarves I opted to castle up, use withering firepower against (in order) enemy shooters, characters, then infantry blocks. Since you can shoot into combat, all I needed was my blocks to hold them in place and then shoot them to death which seemed more like Skaven tactics but whatever. Here is the table layout, the objectives are the big skull tower and the staircase thingy. None of the terrain was special we just kept it simple. If you want to see lovingly painted models, go elsewhere.  The stone walls are the table edges, this was just to mark off the 4' x 4' area. My list was: Leaders Belegar Ironhammer (140) - General Grimm Burloksson (100) Battleline 10 x Dwarf Warriors (100) - Shield & Axe or Hammer 10 x Dwarf Warriors (100) - Shield & Axe or Hammer Units 10 x Quarrellers (120) - None 10 x Thunderers (120) - None War Machines Cannon (180) Organ Gun (120) Total: 980/1000 The organ gun + Grimm Burlocksson combo should have been putting out 4d6 shots with -1 rending pretty much every turn, and the cannon is 2 shots a turn at d6 wounds with -2 rending. Should have been pretty nasty. Should have been. My opponents list: Leaders Ogroid Thaumaturge (160) - General Tzaangor Shaman (120) Battleline 20 x Tzaangors (360) 10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140) Units 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160) 10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) Total: 990/1000 The Blue Horrors were off the table, they are summoned when the pink horrors die. At least in matched play, summoned units have to be paid for from points. Basically putting a new unit on the table cost points, but healing models back into a unit does not as long as you don't go over the original size. This means that healing is super loving good, and Dwarves don't get any. Disciples of Tzeentch get a poo poo ton. Imagine that. This also becomes important later on when the Blue Horrors do show up. Anyhow, I deployed like I would in WHFB which is tactical error #1. I didn't think LOS would matter that much since anything can be targeted and TLOS is almost impossible to avoid, so I have my warmachines on the hill with the babysitting engineer. I call it Fort Fuckoff. All are welcome.  My opponent deploys heavy on my right side so I put one warrior block on the right of Fort Fuckoff and the other on the left. My Thunderers and Quarrelers both get shields for free so I leave them on the left to hold a flank. They both have good range (Grimm also gives one unit experimental weapons so my Thunderers had 24" to play with) so they could shoot anything that came across the board. Belegar camped out with the warriors to give a large AoE bravery boost and a little more counterpunch to anything approaching the good Fort.  Now since he deployed less units he gets first turn apparently. Not a bad thing, he has to come forward then I can open up with my artillery and hopefully pull off the double turn to shoot twice. But here is where I learn important things. This is the end of turn 1:  See how I have no crew on the Organ Gun? Here is what happened. He flies his disc arrow dudes over the buildings and right into the middle of the table. He reads off a couple of rules and then starts pulling off his special 'Destiny Dice'. Destiny Dice are a thing that Disciples of Tzeentch get where he rolls 9 dice before the game and puts them to the side. He can use those dice instead of rolling at any time he likes, but each die only once per game. So his three arrow dudes shoot, and target the warmachine crew. Yes, you can target warmachine crew. I have no idea why they even put stats on the warmachine itself (4 wounds, 4+ save) when you can just kill off the whole crew (3 wounds, 5+ save). Crew get a +1 cover bonus to their save when within 1" of their machine at least. So he rolls six dice to hit and gets a couple of hits. This is where the bullshit starts. He tells me that if any roll is a six, it deals d3 Mortal Wounds. Mortal wounds do not need to roll to hit, wound, and allow no armour saves. He gets no sixes on his attacks so he grabs one from his Destiny Dice. Now he is guaranteed to get d3 unsavable wounds against my three crewmen. He pulls a five off his Destiny Dice so he's guaranteed the full 3. I have no crew left on the organ gun so it will not fire once all game. To recap:
His 160pt unit flew across the board and wiped a 180pt warmachine off the table and I had exactly zero player agency in the result. Not particularly impressive for the start of the game. His Shaman was right behind them boosting their to-hit rolls as well, so it was just bad luck that he needed to use two of his Destiny Dice. The sorceror cast a spell putting 2 or 3 Mortal Wounds on Belegar. Again, no wound roll, no armour save just take these wounds thanks. On my turn I returned the favour by charging down the hill with my rightmost warrior squad and Belegar. I needed 7" and 8" respectively but made both charges and kicked the disc archers teeth in. The sorcerer was kept exactly 3.0001" behind the archers so he could not be piled into or otherwised engaged. If you wipe a unit out in combat you just stand there, no reform or anything so I couldn't pull him into the combat zone. Critique time - the 3" bubble is super important which I now realize. If you start your turn within 3" of an enemy unit you can only stand still or retreat, which is a regular move but you have to end up outside the 3" bubble and further away from any model in the unit you started close to. So by shaping your units and positioning them you can prevent movement or force your opponent to engage where you want. In fact, standing still and taking a charge is usually the better option then charging because you can pull unit shaping tricks to 'trap'. There is a tactics article on the Warhammer Community page that basically goes into the details here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/14/tactical-toolbox-charging/ If someone was to ask me where the movement tactics are in AoS, this is basically it. It's bumping 3" bubbles of control forward until you can force the engagement you want. Anyhow here is the end of my turn 1:  The disc archers are gone, the sorceror is just beyond my reach, and the rest of his units are piling forward. I've marched up the left warrior unit, but they are going slow since they get rerolls on their armour saves if they do not run or charge due to forming a shield wall. My cannon and shooting units have done some good work and I sniped off his Ogre general. TLOS, no look out sir, no way to hide your characters. They are gonna die I guess. I killed a Tzaangor or two as well. Now here comes the manpile.  So the sorceror scoots away and the pink horrors have hit my right warrior unit. The Tzaangors hit the left one and start wrapping around. You'll notice that on the left side of Belegar and his warriors, there is a semicircle of new units. This is the Pink Horror/Blue Horror thing and it's a little more bullshit. The first five Pink Horrors I kill spawn two Blue Horrors each, but he can place them anywhere he wants within 6". What he's done is forced the warriors on the left to freeze because you can only pile in to the closest enemy model (which will be the Blue Horrors) but you can't split unit coherence, so they can't pile into the different unit. By selectively removing wounded Pink Horrors he freezes them there. Belegar could kill the blue horrors but unless I wipe them out, Pink Horrors that die will keep topping up the unit (instead of placing a new unit which does cost points, they can heal the closest Blue Horror unit which costs no points, remember), but Belegar can't pile into the Pink Horrors because they are not the closest enemy. Belegar is now also frozen in place, and eating more Mortal Wounds from the Sorcerer on Disc. So I have to kill the pink horrors, and the Dwarves are fortunately much better warriors then they are. I kill the unit down by four, and they have something like one or two left. He now has to take a Battleshock test, which really works like a crumbling did back in WHFB. Roll a die (just one) add the number of models killed this turn, compare it to your Bravery and then for each point you are higher, one more model flees the battle. He needs a 1 to stay in the fight, so I should wipe the rest out! ...remember the Destiny Dice? He pulls a one out. Oh, also if Pink Horrors roll a one on a Battleshock test they get back d6 models. He grabs a four from the Destiny Dice. gently caress. All this time the Tzaangor are murderpunching my other Dwarf unit. Since the controlling player always chooses how to allocate wounds, he keeps allocating wounds to guys with some sort of Chaos shields that give a 6+ to any wounds before their armour save. He can allocate every wound taken to the shield dudes first, 6+ any of them before taking regular armour saves after that. Not too bullshitty but a bit funny. It's like allocating wounds in 40k to a guy with an Invul save, but you can't bypass it by shooting from a different angle and gets to invul every wound first before anything else happens . It's only a 6+ but it did negate a cannon shot somewhere in this turn. The synergies of the new units is also on display at this point. By having 20 models in the unit and having the sorcerer within 9" he's getting between 3 and 4 attacks per model, plus a beak attack. Sure this is an expensive unit but they are also 2W models, get a damage spell as a bonus from their banner, carry mixed equipment to maximize attacks, have rending attacks, and are faster than my Dwarves. So double the wounds, plus all of those extras for 80% more points. Not very balanced. During the next turn, I also find out that the Sorcerer has a spell that does D3 Mortal Wounds to my unit, and heals back D3 models to the Tzaangors, so he has healing on top of everything else, and he can bring them back with any equipment he wants so he always heals back the 6++ sheild dudes. I'm forced to move my Quarrelers and Thunderers over to my objective in an attempt to fend off the instant win. I actually pull off the double turn on turn three but my one cannon shot is 6++ off the Tzaangors and the Thundered and Quarrelers just can't do enough damage to reduce the Tzaangor numbers (and of course they are healing). My general and Warriors finish off the Pink Horrors, but the Blue Horrors simply retreat out of range and start shooting the last wound or two off of my General. The sorcerer leaps over and mauls my Cannon crew.  The Tzaangors plow into the newly positioned Quarrelers and it's just a matter of time now. I've killed probably 17 or 18 of them, but there are still more than 10 on the table due to healing.  I plan to run Grimm and the Thunderers over to the tower as well, but my opponent gets the double turn, kills the Quarrelers and it's game over.  So tactically, issues I had:
Part of this comes from not realizing what the units can do, but there is also a pretty obvious disparity between compendium armies (old lists) and the new hotness. Stuff like the Destiny Dice are stupidly powerful and do not scale to small games, he gets 9 dice everytime. Shooting into combat wasn't as bad as I thought, since shooting seems much weaker than melee for the points, but Characters and Warmachine crew are ridiculously easy to kill. Tactically, I think I learned more about how this game is supposed to be played, and WHFB it ain't. It is literally a game of min-maxing your list to maximize the most broken abilities of your units which isn't exactly news, but the factions are so small you only have ten units or so to select from. Internal balance doesn't really matter when you only have two Battleline choices and one is clearly much better than another. They fixed summoning with the points cost, but healing is extremely powerful, especially when it brings back multiple multiwound models. I need to do more playing to figure out how the 3" bubbles work. I've read that article I linked above and I get it. That's where the tactics are in this game, limited as they are. The double turn was not particularly powerful for me (some unlucky dice helped this) but was game-winning for my opponent. I would always decline to take the double turn unless I could absolutely guarantee that it would be game changing. Decline, decline, decline until you can win the game with it. Speaking of guarantees, in a game where you randomize with dice rolling, there are far too many guaranteed outcomes. Mortal wounds, first turn selection, unit abilities and bullshit like the Destiny Dice. My Dwarves had literally *none* of these, no Mortal Wound dealing, no mitigation against Mortal Wounds, etc... This goes back to min/maxing the lists but that is not an AoS unique problem. TL;DR The game is better than at launch but still flawed. Summoning is okay, healing is a bit broken. Mortal wounds remove all player agency and have no mitigation for 95% of units/armies. Internal balance in factions is bad, external balance across armies is worse. I'm going to proxy some games with Sylvaneth and see if they are balanced better against the new books. I do this for science, and I do it for you my lovely goons. This was rambling as gently caress , so are there any questions?
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Feb 26, 2017 05:14
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:your friend seems like a very rude person to act like that in a casual game He is a good guy, but he reads gravitates to netlisting a bit.
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Feb 26, 2017 05:17
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Munin posted:Which version of the organ gun did you get away with using in the end? I ran everything from the Battletome which had the better one. Based on the points, I figure that's the one that I should have used. The Ironweld organ gun is considerably worse than the cannon but the points in the book are quite a bit higher. Still it was completely unclear, I'm still not sure what I was supposed to do.
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Feb 26, 2017 17:26
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Pierzak posted:This sure is a thread. Slambo?
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Feb 27, 2017 04:05
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Is Slambo resin?
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Feb 27, 2017 16:41
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I just signed up for an AoS escalation league. Weep not for me, I seek knowledge to share with others. My body is a roadmap of pain, and pain has it's valves.
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Feb 27, 2017 19:54
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Just bought my army for the league:
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Feb 27, 2017 21:45
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mango sentinel posted:Spire of Dawn Skaven + Start Collecting Skaven, plus Slambo is almost 1500 points right? You can check here: http://www.scrollbuilder.com
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Feb 27, 2017 22:22
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SteelMentor posted:What would be the plural of SLAMBO. A Slambajamba.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:23
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Bombogenesis posted:You're a good person, TKIY. The game sounds like it's almost in the place they were originally shooting for as a ~beer n' pretzels~ chill game but honestly after three beers and having my big death cannon rendered useless turn one via poo poo I couldn't actively counter I'd probably smash a bottle over somebodies head. Well I'm going to run an actual new book Army and see if that helps. I happen to like the tree dude models anyhow and they will be square based for KoW so I'm not really losing anything but time and brain cells. I did but the Alarielle model because it's awesome. Counts as Dragon for KoW I figure.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:42
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This is another problem that needs to be corrected. You buy units in blocks and you pay per block whether you use all the models in that block or not. This leads to fuckery like this:
You tell me how this works. All you need to do is say Dryads are 120pts for a block of ten which is the minimum size, and then it's 12 points for each additional model. Hell, stuff like Champs and Banners is built in to the 'first ten' cost so maybe it's 10 points for each additional model. Sort of like how it was done in 8th (imagine that). KoW does the buy-units-by-block system but with multibasing it's not nearly as big an issue.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:13
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Ghost Hand posted:What happened to the old Age of Slgmar thread? It was getting better then it got closed. Bottom line the game still has glaring flaws, shitposting is not going to go away, so AoS posters need a thick skin. I'm really only playing it out of lack of other fantasy options so I'm posting about it with salty as gently caress attitude. Maybe it will win me over if GH2 goes further than the first one did.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:44
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Xarbala posted:Tune in next episode, where a new army list extends its olive branch to the embattled TKIY. Will he find victory or will his Aelves get Shaelved? Not Aeaeleveses but Sylvaneth. One of those two names is actually from AOS. Guess which one?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:32
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Slambii.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:31
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LordAbaddon posted:Not to interrupt the shitposting but is there any overview/meta rundown for the various factions(battleforces?(armies?(wad of cash?)))? I'm interested to see where everything stands in that "can't look away from a train wreck" kind of way. Not really, there was one in the old thread. I'm learning as I go though. You basically have the big 4 alliances: Order, Death, Chaos and Destruction. Inside those you have the new armies like IronJawZZZ, Sylvaneathaenth, Stormlord Whiteprides, etc... You have to have all your models from one of those subfactions to gain their special rules, but you can mix and match within the alliances otherwise. This determines your army Allegiance. All the old guys got their models wrapped up in the Battletomes. These are usually called 'Compendium Armies' since they got their points in the Generals Handbook compendium. What really fucks things over is that within these, they broke them up into tiny little subfactions. For instance, Skeletons are not part of the same subfaction as Ghouls (no poo poo they are Deathrattle and Flesh Eater subfactions respectively), so their assocaited heroes don't buff each other. If you want to run a Ghoul Army, you go to the Flesh Eater Courts subfaction, get their Battletome, and it gives you the It's messed up a bit, so only the new factions with new kits give you any sort of variation, and even then it's limited. Sylvaneth gets two named characters, three flavours of treemen, two flavours of revenant, two flavours of Branchwraiths, Dryads and Hunters with choice of three weapons. Compare either of those to the old Vamp Counts. List building becomes *very* cookie cutter.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:12
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Duardinbob Steampants are up next: Looks like the back end of a blimp. I would legit buy a blimp. Blimps are awesome. TKIY fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 20:13
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I plunge further into the Mortal Realms. Everything will be square based for Kings of War but I did give GW money. I expect skeletal admonishment at any time.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:47
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mango sentinel posted:Why not buy the Forest Spirit Warhost? I don't know what that is. There was the Wargrove Christmas special box but it's gone. Edit: I looked it up. I already bought Treemen and Dryads back at the end of 8th. This is all new stuff. TKIY fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 00:07
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Moola posted:ILL KILL YOU MOTHERFUKCER!!!  It's nice to know you care. Love ya, big guy.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:53
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wdarkk posted:Ugh goddamn I don't like the Everqueen. Just two different models attached to each other via copy->paste in Zbrush or whatever they use. I mostly play in my basement so I likely won't.
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Mar 2, 2017 03:04
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:woah, i didnt notice the dice. thats loving twisted tkiy Yeah I dunno what happened there. I think once you are already sending money off for GW product, it loses all sense of value. It can't possibly be real, so whats another $17. This was all ordered while drunk as well. At this point, the spiral is pretty much as downward as it gets. I hope you all enjoy the ride.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:10
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Fifty bucks though?
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Mar 3, 2017 01:10
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Moola posted:Have their own event With blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the event.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:47
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I've played against it once. The destiny dice are pretty bullshit, it seems to be a very strong book overall with lots of magic and mortal wound potential. It was not fun to face with a compendium Army.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:50
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Xarbala posted:You could try eBay, someone might have spare jezzails they wouldn't mind letting go of Yes, eBay is a (  ) great option.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:03
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Just like Blood Knights.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:46
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Moola posted:I'd give them a solid 5/10 and a skeletal thumbs up The world is ending. Moola, would you... *gulp* ...give GW money for them?
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Mar 15, 2017 15:41
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Kababoom Overheads update:    In the second pic you can see some of the design work, they were designed by John Blanche. TKIY fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 15:28
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Mar 17, 2017 15:47
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GreenMarine posted:I'm sick of all these unofficial rules for Sigmar. This game is not about being creative. It's about being OFFICIAL And the only way it can be official is if Games Workshop says it is. Look, if you make your own rules, dont expect me to play you in an official game. That would be a worthless waste of time. If I have fun, I want it to be official fun, that's all. Source dem quotes.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:03
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Shadespire updates:quote:New push-fit models for Shadespire
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Mar 23, 2017 17:10
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GreenMarine posted:Maybe not the best choice of words. I got frustrated and angry and then acted rashly. Evidence why I shouldn't OP a thread. I act against my own interests when, in trying to contribute to the community, I blow something up. A thread closure is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for posters to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the OP than on the posters. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:09
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It's better than the official app, good for them.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:04
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Are those models done in board game plastic?
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Mar 23, 2017 23:46
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Neat info on the Balloon Dwarves:quote:The Ironclad literally acts like your flagship. You can use it to send flag signals to buff other units that see it. The example they gave added 3" to weapon range.
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Mar 28, 2017 18:54
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Buy one Wildwood and then cut other bases out of MDF or something. Your purchase list looks like mine, but I NB also grabbed Drycha and Alarielle because I have issues.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:22
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Theoretically to keep it fair the base should be identical, but obviously it depends on how much of a stickler your opponent is.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:59
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dexefiend posted:I ordered 2 Sylvaneth Starters, 4 Kurnoth Hunter boxes, and 1 Tree Revenant box. I will order forests when my wallet heals. Hunters are the poo poo. Prepare for whining from your opponents.
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Mar 31, 2017 14:35
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I bought one friendo and yes we should.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:07
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MonsterEnvy posted:What would a good AoS Skaven army look like to you guys. Kind of bad at seeing how synergy works. Stormvermin and Stormfiends seem to be the competitive choices but I don't know much about them.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:28
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