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The Deadly Hume
May 26, 2004

Let's get a little crazy. Let's have some fun.

Capt.Whorebags posted:

I'm not sure that Fascism really describes PHON. My understanding of fascism was that the individual worked for the ultimate good of the national strength (which was usually defined in a ubermenschen sort of way) happily enough making a buck as well..

I think a majority of PHON supporters want to do whatever they like, including being rascist pricks. Other than that they want the smallest government lossible, or if it's a big government, it spends its time persecuting those other people.
It's probably closer to Know-Nothing or Nativism. It's pretty much a dumb-arsed form of fascism.

Hanson is parroting Trump (antivax, thinks Putin is a cool guy) because she sees Trump has had a winning strategy, where in fact in a functioning democratic system Trump wouldn't have gotten past Go. Of course it's arguable whether our country's electoral system is particularly functional either, but as it is, Hanson is going to be hard-pressed to get any more than 1-2 seats in the lower house, seeing as the Greens who are far more politically savvy (at least in Victoria and Tasmania) still struggle to get that many.

Dawson is probably their best bet because you'd have to look at someone like Christensen and conclude that PHON is closer to the centre than that guy.

Thing is, for all the dumb talk about One Nation becoming more sophisticated, Hanson might have a few more resources to throw around, but essentially she's still peddling the same know-nothing (or Nativist) twaddle that she was 20 years ago. But of course what happened since was that, well, we have normalised things like offshore detention.

(Mutters something about Hanson being given an easy ride by the media because they love carnival sideshows.)

While we definitely have to take PHON seriously (and literally), the bigger problem is that the L/NP coalition is spooked by her to the point where they think the only way they can win votes back is by hurting people, whether it's through Robodebt or cutting penalty rates. The problem with that is now it's hurting people who vote - of course they've tried a few suppression techniques, but the whole compulsory voting thing means that it's not just a case of mobilising your dudes and suppressing their dudes, you have to win over the swinging centre as well.

The ALP under Shorten is kind of boring (and they are definitely craven on certain issues) but although their primary vote isn't fantastic either, they will be in the position where they can say, well, we're the Sensible Centre.

The next stage is the WA State Election - from the polling it looks like the ALP there will get a 10-11% swing from 2013, which will be more enough to win them government with a handful of seats to spare. Upper house, though, who the gently caress knows what's going to happen with that. I'm just glad I don't have to live there.

A state election result like that probably shouldn't have as much effect on the federal scene, but if the federal Liberals immediate response is to ditch Turnbull for Dutton and think that'll solve all their problems, nah. It's just going to deepen the stink around the government - maybe a bit of a poll bump at first as the initial tone-deaf "DUTTON IS A DYNAMIC SPECIMEN OF A MAN" puff pieces get farted out because good golly gosh does the media love a novelty, but as he's actually called on to do things that he is incapable of, and because he doesn't have that shield of gravitas Turnbull started off with, the drift is going to continue.

Why the gently caress would they choose Dutton, anyway? He is a dumb Queensland copper who thinks with his cerebellum and is just going to dilute the primary vote even more. I could understand if they went with that ratfucker ScoMo because he's NSW Right and does have some kind of evil charisma, but Dutton? He curdles milk and makes babies cry everywhere he goes.

The Deadly Hume fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Mar 5, 2017

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The Deadly Hume
May 26, 2004

Let's get a little crazy. Let's have some fun.
Now I remember why I stopped posting in these threads because I wasted too much time posting these stupid braindumps

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

The Deadly Hume posted:

Now I remember why I stopped posting in these threads because I wasted too much time posting these stupid braindumps

I stopped because I was a white noise machine that no-one here liked. At least your reason is half decent.

As a realtalk question, is there any hope of having Shorten moved on?
Like if Turnbull gets knifed (I can't seriously believe that's an if not a when, goddamn it Tony) and Dutton comes on the scene and the Leader Preferred still doesn't get above 50 does Labour start looking at potential replacements?

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I still can't see Dutton getting up. I know it's what elements in the right wing media would probably prefer, and it's getting plenty of media speculation because of that and also because it's somewhat sensational - but I just don't think Dutton could win a spill against Turnbull. I don't see the people who have to work with that dumbshit disaster of a minister giving him the support over the guy who, while indecisive and disappointing, at least knows when to back away from a poo poo idea.

You just know Dutton's going to continue to work like a thuggish QLD cop and double down on everything in the same way Abbott did, which is ultimately what cost him the leadership in the first place. Scomo is a snake, and every bit as much a racist bastard, but at least he's capable of some degree of diplomacy and subtlety. gently caress, even poodle Pine could probably run the party better than the potato man. And if there's one thing you can count on the Liberal party for, it's abandoning any promises, any idealism, any "good sense" and especially any evidence-based policy as long as it gets them back in. Dutton won't be able to return the Libs to power, and the bulk of the party room have to know that.

Also, I really don't get the popular notion that Bishop has excluded herself from the running due to "disloyalty". I don't see how she's any less loyal than any of the rest, and given Abbotts rapidly declining credibility, that shouldn't matter. She's widely considered the most effective minister, she's never really been involved in anything scandalous and she never says stupid poo poo. So yeah it's gonna be a gender thing. Which is good, because she could probably take Shorten apart if she were able to control the party room.

Of course Brexit and Trump have proven that nothing is too ridiculous in TYOOL 2016/17.

Clawtopsy
Dec 17, 2009

What a fascinatingly unusual cock. Now, allow me to show you my collection...
They won't move Shorten on yet because they want the opportunity to say LIBERALS IN CHAOS over leadership speculations, because now it's their turn to pretend to be stable.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

Schlesische posted:

I stopped because I was a white noise machine that no-one here liked. At least your reason is half decent.

As a realtalk question, is there any hope of having Shorten moved on?
Like if Turnbull gets knifed (I can't seriously believe that's an if not a when, goddamn it Tony) and Dutton comes on the scene and the Leader Preferred still doesn't get above 50 does Labour start looking at potential replacements?

Pretty sure Rudd changed it so Labor leaders can't be changed until the conference after losing election.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
https://twitter.com/CliveFPalmer/status/838274501510979584

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Centrelink's robo-debt crisis: Who is Hank Jongen?



Newsflash everybody: Hank Jongen is not the boss of Centrelink.

And the public servant who has acted as front man for the "robo-debt" crisis engulfing the nation's welfare system is not in charge of the Centrelink's giant parent department, Human Services, either.

Play Video


Yes, it's easy to get that impression when Mr Jongen is introduced in a TV or radio interview as "the general manager" of Centrelink or the Department of Human Services.

It makes it look or sound like the person at the top, or close to the top, a real decision maker, is fronting the media to defend those decisions, being accountable.

It's an impression that Mr Jongen and his small army of taxpayer-funded spinners do nothing to correct either.

But Mr Jongen is not an operational or policy decision maker. He is a spin doctor, a comms man, a media spokesman, albeit a highly paid one.

Now, it is true that one of his official titles - Mr Jongen has had many, over the years - is general manager.

But there are more than 30 Department of Human Services bureaucrats sporting the title "general manager".

And, no, none of them are the boss either.

Journalists, TV and radio producers are busy people, if someone says they're the general manager of a government department, it doesn't get checked.

But of course, DHS never explicitly claims that Mr Jongen is running the whole show, just that he is "general manager". Sort of sounds like he's the boss, without actually telling a fib.

Clever eh?

We asked DHS if it had ever corrected the record when media outlets referred to Mr Jongen as the boss of the department, or if it was concerned that the public might be getting the wrong end of the stick.

This was the department's response:

"Mr Jongen is a general manager in the Community Engagement Division, and is the department's official spokesperson.

"He represents the department on this basis."

Now, that might be handy for everyone to know. Just so we're all clear on where we stand.

When Mr Jongen invited members of the public to email him "directly", they were invited, implicitly, to believe they were contacting a decision maker. But they were not.

Mr Jongen has been called many things down through the years. Back in the 1990s, he was variously, "National Manager" of Centrelink, national manager, Communication of Centrelink, Assistant Secretary, information and public relations for the Department of Social Security, or sometimes just plain old and more accurately; "spokesman".

But his job has always been more or less the same.

It can be hard to keep up, but more recently, as in mid-2015, Mr Jongen was the general manager, communication, according to the department's annual report.

A year later, his title was simply "departmental spokesman".

For the record, the real boss is Kathryn Campbell, Secretary of the Department of Human Services.

The man responsible for Centrelink's "service delivery" is Grant Tidswell.

Neither of them have been interviewed in the media since the robo-debt crisis erupted.

But why would they, when they have their "general manager" to take the fall instead?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/centrelinks-robodebt-crisis-who-is-hank-jongen-20170124-gtxn0u.html

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

He's getting pretty good.

https://twitter.com/CliveFPalmer/status/837808260782546944

Periphery
Jul 27, 2003
...

The Deadly Hume posted:

1-2 seats in the lower house, seeing as the Greens who are far more politically savvy (at least in Victoria and Tasmania) still struggle to get that many.

What are the chances the Greens recent strategy of focusing on a few specific seats starts to yield some serious results soon? From memory they saw some good gains in the seats they targeted but are they close to taking those seats?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Periphery posted:

What are the chances the Greens recent strategy of focusing on a few specific seats starts to yield some serious results soon? From memory they saw some good gains in the seats they targeted but are they close to taking those seats?

Depends on where we're talking, but I know in the electorates immediately surrounding Melbourne it's gone really well. I know for a fact the official count had the Greens only 455 votes away from winning in Melbourne Ports, and that was generally considered the least likely of the four seats to flip.

AgentF
May 11, 2009

What the gently caress is happening? Is he having a mental breakdown?


That pizza recipe is loving vomitous.

hiddenmovement
Sep 29, 2011

"Most mornings I'll apologise in advance to my wife."

AgentF posted:

What the gently caress is happening? Is he having a mental breakdown?

Yes

Clawtopsy
Dec 17, 2009

What a fascinatingly unusual cock. Now, allow me to show you my collection...
clive palmer is slowly turning in to aussie jaden smith

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

The Deadly Hume posted:

Now I remember why I stopped posting in these threads because I wasted too much time posting these stupid braindumps

No, it was a good braindump. Maybe what we have now is neofascism, like neoliberal with more pointless hypernationalism. But in Australia, it's just an identity crisis looking for something to do. Remember, PHON depends on a bunch of old people who dumped themselves in Qld and have a shelf life of around a decade, then they get replaced. It's circular, it's going nowhere. PHON have to get off the pot and win significant Reps seats, and if they never get beyond the Senate, they're as effective as any other minor party. Look at the Greens. All they can ever aspire to then is being a Senate voting bloc, and that's bad enough.

Dutton's a choice because they have no good choices. If the WA election goes badly, he's probably less of a choice but then you start throwing people like Porter at the problem, and that's usually what they do AFTER they lose an election and rebuild. They've got bugger all. Bishop? She ain't going nowhere.

My sense is that their focus groups are giving them a dire message and they're in denial because that means rethinking an agenda they've never questioned.

And all this lovely tinsel dressing is going to be useless if the Budget they have in mind is anything like we think it will be. The question is, can they do nothing for two years? Unless people start seriously crossing floors or voting no confidence, there's nothing to stop this grinding on like the last election only worse.

Serious poo poo has to go down in the Reps to shake any of this up.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012


hang on, did journalists actually think that jongen was the boss of centrelink? like, how??????

if they spent literally 30 seconds they could have found DHS's org chart and see that hank jongen is way the gently caress down the list. like okay i'm not expecting the average citizen to understand public service structure but if you're a (theoretically) smart journalist you should be able to figure out that just because a dude has "general manager" in his signature doesn't necessarily mean he's running the joint.

if this piece was intended to dramatically reveal DHS's machiavellian deception then in my view it's a pretty spectacular own goal. if journalists honestly believe that a guy reporting his job title as "general manager" is some kind of smokescreen rather than, you know, him accurately reporting his job title, what that actually reveals is that journalists are some of the most smooth-brained dullards around who really should not have the honour of being the fourth estate of our democracy

EvilElmo
May 10, 2009

Cleretic posted:

I know for a fact the official count had the Greens only 455 votes away from winning in Melbourne Ports, and that was generally considered the least likely of the four seats to flip.

http://results.aec.gov.au/20499/Website/HouseDivisionPage-20499-230.htm

Alternative facts?

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

quote:

Yes, it's easy to get that impression when Mr Jongen is introduced in a TV or radio interview as "the general manager" of Centrelink or the Department of Human Services.

hmm, whose fault is that? could it be the TV or radio show, which didn't do the bare minimum research to find out that he's not the general manager of DHS, but the general manager of communications at DHS? no, it must be the fault of those devious bureaucrats for not immediately correcting us when we get the most insanely simple poo poo wrong!!!!

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

look out folks; the canny media has figured out that it's the job of communications managers to make things look good, even if the things are bad!! soon they'll break an even bigger case: corporations don't actually have your best interests at heart, and instead their commercials are designed to make you buy their products!!!

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Damnit. I trust the people who told me that to have their facts straight to some level, so I know 455 votes is a tangible figure that comes from somewhere. Maybe that's where the number looked to be before full counting was done? I know the seat took ages to count because the AEC's counting methods struggle with when there's more than two parties in strong contention.

It was still a really strong showing that could definitely lead to the seat flipping Green down the line.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
So the Andrews government has announced three new policies targeting housing affordability:

1) First home owners will be exempt from stamp duty on a property $600,000 or less
Smart idea, but I'm not sure that the $600,000 really hits the mark for affordability.
In the South East, you're looking at Dandenong(30km from the CBD) and further to get median prices under $600k (Dandenong's median was $599,950 in the December 16 quarter, and realistically that's being suppressed somewhat by the dandenong brand)
In the East, you need to go out the Emerald(40km)
In the North, Thomastown and beyond (15km)
You need to go West of Sunshine West on the other side(15km)
e: Actually I just looked up the detail and there's a marginal concession offered up to $750k, so that's really good.

Given the stress already on both roads and public transport it's not really ideal. $700k would have included a lot more areas with decent services and accessability.

2) A tax on dwellings that sit unoccupied for more than 6 months of the year, valued at 1% of the capital improved value per year
This is good, there's a chunk of housing stock tied up by people just waiting to realise a capital gain which serves no use to anyone other than the speculator parasites that own them.

3) A pilot program for government co-ownership of houses. Funded for $50M initially, the government will take an equity share in the house of up to 25%, means tested on income ($95k for couples, $75k for singles), with the co-owner to provide at least 5% deposit. The government will realise it's investment upon the sale of the property.
I like this a lot, particularly as it may signal willingness to stop the retreat from investment in social housing.

I have been pleasantly surprised by the state labor government many times since their election, they are continuing to come out with smart and targeted policies. I hope that media hyperbole around the CFA and SkyRail and the loving grift of the scumfuck Speaker of the House doesn't let the Coalition get a look in to undo the good work next year.

Urcher
Jun 16, 2006


Solemn Sloth posted:

So the Andrews government has announced three new policies targeting housing affordability:

Removal of stamp duty (for some people) and addition of a land tax (for some properties) is a step in the right direction.

Hopefully they eventually go all in on land tax replacing stamp duty.

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

Solemn Sloth posted:

I have been pleasantly surprised by the state labor government many times since their election, they are continuing to come out with smart and targeted policies. I hope that media hyperbole around the CFA and SkyRail and the loving grift of the scumfuck Speaker of the House doesn't let the Coalition get a look in to undo the good work next year.

The CFA beat up was loving disgusting. Right up there with the Medicare beat up. gently caress me that whole campaign was bad.

Outside of this latest grift scandal, the state government has been really good.

Cleretic posted:

Damnit. I trust the people who told me that to have their facts straight to some level, so I know 455 votes is a tangible figure that comes from somewhere. Maybe that's where the number looked to be before full counting was done? I know the seat took ages to count because the AEC's counting methods struggle with when there's more than two parties in strong contention.

It was still a really strong showing that could definitely lead to the seat flipping Green down the line.

iirc there was a thing where if the Greens got more first preference votes than Labor (20,179 vs 22,897) then we would have seen some poo poo go down. Danby had two how to vote cards, and in Jewish areas was issuing HTVs with Liberals as a higher preference than the Greens which goes against general party policy.
This had to do with the Greens member being ?publically anti-Zionist? or something.

The Greens did good, but Danby is gonna get another crack at holding his seat and he'll probably do the HTV card thing again. While he's in there and while the Greens run anti-Zionist candidates, the door is not slammed as shut for the Liberals in Melbourne Ports as it perhaps should be.

Schlesische fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Mar 5, 2017

Periphery
Jul 27, 2003
...

Solemn Sloth posted:

So the Andrews government has announced three new policies targeting housing affordability:

1) First home owners will be exempt from stamp duty on a property $600,000 or less
Smart idea, but I'm not sure that the $600,000 really hits the mark for affordability.
In the South East, you're looking at Dandenong(30km from the CBD) and further to get median prices under $600k (Dandenong's median was $599,950 in the December 16 quarter, and realistically that's being suppressed somewhat by the dandenong brand)
In the East, you need to go out the Emerald(40km)
In the North, Thomastown and beyond (15km)
You need to go West of Sunshine West on the other side(15km)
e: Actually I just looked up the detail and there's a marginal concession offered up to $750k, so that's really good.

Given the stress already on both roads and public transport it's not really ideal. $700k would have included a lot more areas with decent services and accessability.

2) A tax on dwellings that sit unoccupied for more than 6 months of the year, valued at 1% of the capital improved value per year
This is good, there's a chunk of housing stock tied up by people just waiting to realise a capital gain which serves no use to anyone other than the speculator parasites that own them.

3) A pilot program for government co-ownership of houses. Funded for $50M initially, the government will take an equity share in the house of up to 25%, means tested on income ($95k for couples, $75k for singles), with the co-owner to provide at least 5% deposit. The government will realise it's investment upon the sale of the property.
I like this a lot, particularly as it may signal willingness to stop the retreat from investment in social housing.

I have been pleasantly surprised by the state labor government many times since their election, they are continuing to come out with smart and targeted policies. I hope that media hyperbole around the CFA and SkyRail and the loving grift of the scumfuck Speaker of the House doesn't let the Coalition get a look in to undo the good work next year.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Vic Labor has been surprisingly good in pretty much every way. I'm pissed they sold the Port but apart from that and the kids in adult prisons stuff it's been mostly good with the bad being stuff blown out of proportion. The recent announcements seem to be part of their election campaign that will keep them positioned as a government that gets poo poo done. You'd have to think that they'll destroy the Libs in the upcoming election. The Libs didn't do poo poo when they were in power and haven't done anything in opposition either so they are playing catchup in every way.

I do question if the Stamp Duty exemption will do anything (people with more money will just spend it and drive up prices anyway), but as someone who will be eligible I'm not going to complain about a $17k discount.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

From what I've seen absolutely no one gives a poo poo about the CFA stuff other than people who wouldn't have voted Labor in the first place.

The Libs throwing a tantrum over it has actually been a massive benefit apparently. A bunch of career CFA guys in integrated stations switched over to MFB saving the CFA a bunch of cash, and possibly allowing for a far easier switch over to integrating the SES and CFA together as one volunteer emergency service.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.
Props to the lifers itt that still believe in any non two-party politics outcome that isn't PHON.

Centusin
Aug 5, 2009
Tbf nick xenophon is also in the mix when it comes to non two party influence

AgentF
May 11, 2009

Cleretic posted:

Damnit. I trust the people who told me that to have their facts straight to some level, so I know 455 votes is a tangible figure that comes from somewhere.

This is why the Liberals go small target.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Schlesische posted:

This had to do with the Greens member being ?publically anti-Zionist? or something.

The Greens did good, but Danby is gonna get another crack at holding his seat and he'll probably do the HTV card thing again. While he's in there and while the Greens run anti-Zionist candidates, the door is not slammed as shut for the Liberals in Melbourne Ports as it perhaps should be.

I was boots on the ground in Melbourne Ports through the month before the election (and am at this point friends with the candidate), so I'm speaking from that perspective. The whole thing with the supposed anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism was less her actual views and more underestimating and misjudging the actual fight there. There wasn't really a strategy in place for speaking to the Jewish population, which combined with the fact the Jewish community's the only part of Melbourne Ports that actually likes Danby to turn that side of the campaign into a total beat-up. The candidate was at-worst ambivalent about the Jewish community, but that lack of presence and strategy let them say whatever they goddamn wanted about her.

It's still early stages on how the next election will go here, but I know that the Greens here are already considering learning from that mistake a top priority. It's not even a given Danby will run next election (he'd definitely prefer to admit defeat than face potentially losing, especially to the Greens), but even if he doesn't that was a massive weakness that's going to need covering.

The Deadly Hume
May 26, 2004

Let's get a little crazy. Let's have some fun.

Scylo posted:

Tbf nick xenophon is also in the mix when it comes to non two party influence
And his party has actually won House of Reps seats. (well, seat.)

Some of his policies are still poo poo, like he supports the penalty rates cut, but at least he's relatively sane.

Interesting observation by Possum Comitatus @Pollytics who does a lot of polling is that the corrupt Trump stuff is actually a turn-off for a lot of potential PHON voters even though they've been cheesed off by the major parties. These are votes that could easily go elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/Pollytics/status/835828327961124864

Her doubling down on that poo poo today probably won't help, and of course most of the people she recruits turn out to be muppets who couldn't even cop a feel in a sea of nipples.

Trump can wing it because he's got a bunch of arseholes around him who are more than happy to write up poo poo for him to sign while he fucks off to his golf course for a week. Hanson has James Ashby, of all people.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

The Deadly Hume posted:

And his party has actually won House of Reps seats. (well, seat.)

Some of his policies are still poo poo, like he supports the penalty rates cut, but at least he's relatively sane.

Interesting observation by Possum Comitatus @Pollytics who does a lot of polling is that the corrupt Trump stuff is actually a turn-off for a lot of potential PHON voters even though they've been cheesed off by the major parties. These are votes that could easily go elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/Pollytics/status/835828327961124864

Her doubling down on that poo poo today probably won't help, and of course most of the people she recruits turn out to be muppets who couldn't even cop a feel in a sea of nipples.

Trump can wing it because he's got a bunch of arseholes around him who are more than happy to write up poo poo for him to sign while he fucks off to his golf course for a week. Hanson has James Ashby, of all people.

This sounds like these legendary "soft Trump" supporters that voted for him for airy reasons about bringing back the working class, in spite of being a racist, sexist, nationalist, know-nothing, nativist, capitalist. My sympathy for these legendary voters is the same as my sympathies for soft Hanson-ites, that if they are alienating on her over Trump why aren't they alienated over literally everything else.

Being turned away from the top two parties, as in here as in America as in the UK, doesn't negate fleeing into the open arms of the deep right and then trying to be aghast at the outcomes of your choices. "Soft Nazi" was a thing, until it wasn't a thing because good luck saying "I was there for the SA!" after 1934.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
2 JSFs grounded at Avalon for another day because there was a chance of a storm somewhere between Melbourne and Brisbane :allears:

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



Solemn Sloth posted:

2 JSFs grounded at Avalon for another day because there was a chance of a storm somewhere between Melbourne and Brisbane :allears:

Not surprised in the slightest. I've probably moaned about it before but lol, not even the US cares about that airframe anymore. Aus should be trying to buy X-47Bs because when they enter operation (And they will) pretty much every other airframe excluding a few which the US doesn't export will become obsolete.

Alternatively we should buy weapons from Rosoboronexport. At this stage who really gives a gently caress? The Russians are selling systems that Aus actually needs, like 3M-54E ASM and Su-35S platforms.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

I can't remember where I heard it, but apparently West Virginia has like way more nurses employed now than coal mining did at its height. The idea that it's economic pain being directed in the wrong direction is complete poo poo. There's going to be far more economic problems for West Virginia from Trump loving healthcare than would ever be solved through resuming coal mining at its peak levels. It's just white nostalgia.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

I can't remember where I heard it, but apparently West Virginia has like way more nurses employed now than coal mining did at its height. The idea that it's economic pain being directed in the wrong direction is complete poo poo. There's going to be far more economic problems for West Virginia from Trump loving healthcare than would ever be solved through resuming coal mining at its peak levels. It's just white nostalgia.

I get the argument but I don't know what the change in population is there. You still need ground floor, no education work and that's sorely lacking right now. Only going to get worse as ground floor, some education work gets technologied to death.

Xerxes17
Feb 17, 2011

cheese-cube posted:

Alternatively we should buy weapons from Rosoboronexport. At this stage who really gives a gently caress? The Russians are selling systems that Aus actually needs, like 3M-54E ASM and Su-35S platforms.

Mate, I fukken love me some Russian military equipment but that's just a terrible idea.

1. I recall hearing that integrating the Hellfire onto our Tiger helicopters was a bit of a shitshow, now imagine trying to get Russian stuff to play nice with NATO stuff.
2. Now extend this to C2/C3/radios/etc equipment that would be different.
3. We couldn't guarantee parts supply.
4. It would open us to pressure from Moscow (bad).
5. There is no way in hell that they would sell to us due to the fact that we would immediately send a copy of anything over to the US for them to have a look at.

There's much more to it, but that's just off the top of my head.

NoNotTheMindProbe
Aug 9, 2010
pony porn was here
We have one of the most highly educated populations in the world. Why can't we just design and build our own planes?

Xerxes17
Feb 17, 2011

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

We have one of the most highly educated populations in the world. Why can't we just design and build our own planes?

Planes and more importantly, their engines are utterly hard as gently caress design and to build. Plus it would require decades of massive public funding to even get it off the ground. Considering that the current mob killed off the car industry over :qq: Muh Expensive Subsidies :qq: I don't think it's likely.

Periphery
Jul 27, 2003
...
How about we just not buy expensive military boondoggles and instead buy things we actually need and will actively use?

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WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

Periphery posted:

How about we just not buy expensive military boondoggles and instead buy things we actually need and will actively use?

We've got enough teenagers and bushland to survive any invasion by the yellow hordes anyway, so I don't know why people are worried.

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