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feedmyleg posted:I've always wanted a comic where it's all about the reject mutants having to save the day. Your mutation is having wheels instead of feet and three spines? Welp, good luck, it's up to you to defeat this world-ending threat! Someone hasn't seen Mystery Men I liked how the kids were literal runaway slaves trying to escape to Canada and how the main antagonist was a literal southern slave catcher.
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Mar 7, 2017 05:52
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Wierd that they made a comic about a guy who's super power was skipping leg day
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Mar 7, 2017 06:07
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Kegslayer posted:Ending spoilers The company didn't want to grow more kids, they wanted to round them up and exterminate them. They started the breeding program, but then while they were doing that they perfected the X-24, which shortcuts the whole "raising and training a bunch of superpowered toddlers" aspect. The world the kids have to live in is still pretty bleak. The evil company is still doing it's evil cloning thing. Nothing was really overthrown. There's probably a dozen more X-24s where that one came from. The only thing the mutants win in this movie is that they escape their immediate pursuers, for the time being. I do agree that we have no idea what's waiting for them in Canada, and I don't think it's safe to assume that Canada will be some kind of mutant paradise. There's nothing in the movie to really suggest that mutants are better off in other countries. Someone else said that this movie is on a much smaller scale than other superhero movies, and I think that works for it. Logan and Charles have had grand, world-changing adventures, but the very end of their story is just them helping to get a handful of kids to what is hopefully a better place than they're in right now. There's no real "victory," it's just two old men going as far as they can until they run out of steam.
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Mar 7, 2017 07:35
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I hope Marvel's taking notes. They're committed to seeing the whole Infinity War thing to completion, but once they get out of that, they can make stuff like this, just a story with no regard for continuity or canon. I want a Planet Hulk movie dammit.
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Mar 7, 2017 09:22
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Thor 3 is that movie basically.
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Mar 7, 2017 09:34
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CelticPredator posted:Thor 3 is that movie basically. Fuckin' A, did not know that. Awesome!
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Mar 7, 2017 10:07
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Finally saw this last night and loved it. Credit to 20th Century Fox for putting out such a scuzzy, gory and straightforward movie. Thought Jackman did a brilliant job physically, showing us his metal skeleton rusting up and the joints, claws etc not moving properly anymore. The final shot couldn't have been better too - whoever came up with the idea of turning the cross on its side deserves a raise. Only thing I'd change would be to have X-24 be a noticeably younger version of Wolverine, specifically how he appears in X-Men 1. I think it'd really hammer home how different Hugh Jackman looks after 17 years, basically highlighting how crappy things have gotten for him. But I guess that'd be expensive and difficult and maybe not worth the effort. I also dug when he injected himself in the neck to pump up for the final fight, just because it reminded me of MGS4.
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Mar 7, 2017 11:32
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What I liked most about Logan's foray into doping is that it wore off like halfway to where he needed to get. The way they played it up, taking the full vial would kill him, so the expectation is that he berserker rages his way through the bad guys and then Shane's his way off screen for the kids. Instead the whole vial is just enough to catch up and deal with a handful of the henchmen, and now he's wiped out and still has to fight all the bosses and most of the henchmen while in even worse shape than when the kids found him. The old man rage yells in the woods were fantastic.
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Mar 7, 2017 13:39
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It reminded me, in the best way, of the more recent Universal Soldier movies, which remain the two most surprisingly good movies ever. The little touches throughout are nice. Like how the corporation thinks it can get away with anything down in Mexico (a standard trope), but that it's the empathy and humanity of the local Mexican workers that undoes their plan. It's a nice reinforcement of the idea that while institutions may go bad, people endure. I also liked that Logan has two kids. One is just his violence and rage, recommencing the cycle. He's angry wolverine, but he's young and will make all Logan's mistakes. The other starts out violent, but learns and changes. Also, the Reavers looked great. It was cool to see 'cyborg mercs' just presented as a thing that exists. Oh yeah, and how the action climax was just the right length. Lots of killing, but also gets to the point. Too many third acts now just get bloated and have way too many beats and drag them out way too far.
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Mar 7, 2017 13:44
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Yeah I missed a couple lines of dialogue here and there but if they were killing off the kids at the original facility why did they take so much effort and put themselves at so much risk to capture them alive in the woods when they could have just lit them up? And I dug the individual instances of kids defending themselves in the woods but that upward-facing shot of them all breathing/fingerwiggling Pierce to death just felt super cheesy and silly in the middle of the climax. Only complaints, great movie otherwise.
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Mar 7, 2017 14:16
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Does anyone know, out of curiosity, what they were doing effect wise after each of Xavier's seizures? It looked they were switching "film" format for a minute or so each time? It gives everything a sort of HD-Video look for a while. I thought it was a cute little effect whatever it was.
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Mar 7, 2017 14:41
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I liked the thing in Logan where the Auto-Trucks don't seem to give a poo poo about people being in front of them or stopping, other than flashing their lights and beeping. You could genuinely imagine that kind of thing if self-driving vehicles come into the fold under a Republican ethos of deregulation; hell, the burden is probably on the surviving pedestrians/their families to repay any damage to their trucks.
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Mar 7, 2017 15:25
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That was a pretty good movie, even leaving out the "comic book" qualifier. I feel like I was the only person in my group of friends who picked up on what it was saying about America though. No one else noticed the border wall or the implication of a bunch of illegal immigrants trying to escape from America, not to America.
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Mar 7, 2017 15:41
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I watched it last Thursday and loved it, but when it cut to the final frame, a wave of groans from the audience just undercut the experience. Someone in my row went "Wait, what?" I guess they were all conditioned for a happier ending.
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Mar 7, 2017 16:33
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RBA Starblade posted:That was a pretty good movie, even leaving out the "comic book" qualifier. I feel like I was the only person in my group of friends who picked up on what it was saying about America though. No one else noticed the border wall or the implication of a bunch of illegal immigrants trying to escape from America, not to America. Did you point out this is happening currently?
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Mar 7, 2017 16:34
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Yes, I was just amazed they didn't see it.
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Mar 7, 2017 16:38
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X-Posting from the GBS thread, I just skimmed the thread and I am kinda surprised at the lack of general criticism in this thread. Disclaimer: I liked this film a lot, I'd give a SOLID 7/10 and would recommend it to fans of any other Marvel films ~Given that the movie establishes Logan has no beef carving up dudes who gently caress with him, there has to be a better way to make money for him than being a loving limo driver ~Where did all of Xavier's money go? How does a rusty water tower protect him from psychic interference? ~We are given a threadbare non-explanation for Wolverine's healing factor being all hosed up and it functions exactly as well as the plot needs it to right up until they give him a LITERAL MAGIC POTION that reverts him from Diet Wolverine to Classic Wolverine (the sequence where he is chain-mauling dudes in the Yukon in a bloody tank top was worth the cost of the matinee ticket alone, however, so *shrug*) ~How does a nurse from Mexico get in touch with the Canadian border hopping mutant 'coyotes' who are supposedly sympathetic to the mutant cause despite them not having existed for like 20 years? These nameless, faceless macguffins hiding out in Canada don't make sense, but neither does having an outpost in the middle of Dakota based on GPS coordinates from a comic book... ~Charles Xavier, Horse Whisperer ~The black family was as good as dead the second they hit the screen. This scene drags on and on and is so painfully telegraphed that it just comes off as tragedy porn. "We, a small town folksy family fighting against BIG CORN, open up our fabulous farmhouse mansion to you while discussing our hopes and dreams. Someday we'll even go on VACATION like city folks!" They could have just gotten tracked by Kalaban to the highway, had the robo trucks drive them off the side, and then have them camp out, where they get jumped by Clone-verine. Like, Logan goes to take a piss and you can still have the 'sneak-in and kill you' scene. This doesn't drive up the stakes anymore, it just drags out the movie. You could have established "what life could have been like" in dozens of ways (camping under the stars) but this just felt awful to watch and Charles Xavier used to be one of the smartest and most powerful psychics on the planet but he can't seem to figure out that maybe the snake-in the grass gold toothed cyborg was lying about killing their extremely useful mutant tracking friend? ~Switching out Bad Guys halfway through the movie is just bad writing, IMO. Gold Tooth Robo-Hands was a great villain with lots of personality, but he gets shunted to the background once the scientist and Clone-verine show up and he doesn't even have any line in the 2nd half of the movie, and then he is killed by GRASS! Just make him the Weapon X scientist guy's son and make him maybe a little jealous & scared of Clone-verine ~Criminally underused army of child killer mutants. X-23 was hyper badass, but aren't they all from the same program? Why are they all out of shape and scared but she's a slaughterhouse with a gymnast body? You could make the argument that her physiology and instincts are part of her X-gene but... ~Kalaban going from punk bitch to suicide bomber was cool but like why not just force them to shoot you back in Mexico? What changes for him between Mexico and Oklahoma? ~The only thing that can stop Wolverine is a younger, dumber Wolverine! Unless the older, smarter Wolverine with 100+ years of combat training could somehow gain the upper hand ~A loving treestump is what takes out Wolverine? How does this even go through his Adamantium ribcage? What the fuckin' gently caress ~"Ok sweetie, in this scene your dad is ded and you're like really really sad... no I need more snot... More snot honey... No, I need like a sad booger fountain... there we go" ~Her giving the eulogy in English when she and all the children present are born/raised in Mexico was lame as hell and they could have just used subtitles tastefully and it would have been just as impactful and made sense and sounded better Those are the nitpicks that stayed with us on the drive home, but again, we both liked it a lot, but sometimes I feel like the thing the differentiates comic book films from more traditional action-fantasy movies besides the IP usage is that sloppy writing just gets hand-waved away constantly and it makes me wonder if anyone ever stops and says "I know this movie is based on a series of impossible things, but this doesn't make sense WITHIN the consistent framework of the story we're trying to tell". I'm a creative writing teacher and my buddy writes screenplays and directs mid-budget hollywood poo poo, so neither of us are comfortable handwaving poo poo away, especially when the movie does so many things well. I think this is certainly in the top 5 comic book movies of all time, with Iron Man and Spider-Man 2 and Deadpool and The Crow Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 16:49
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"~Given that the movie establishes Logan has no beef carving up dudes who gently caress with him, there has to be a better way to make money for him than being a loving limo driver ~Where did all of Xavier's money go? How does a rusty water tower protect him from psychic interference? ~We are given a threadbare non-explanation for Wolverine's healing factor being all hosed up and it functions exactly as well as the plot needs it to right up until they give him a LITERAL MAGIC POTION that reverts him from Diet Wolverine to Classic Wolverine (the sequence where he is chain-mauling dudes in the Yukon in a bloody tank top was worth the cost of the matinee ticket alone, however, so *shrug*) ~The only thing that can stop Wolverine is a younger, dumber Wolverine! Unless the older, smarter Wolverine with 100+ years of combat training could somehow gain the upper hand" -He's lying low and avoiding drawing attention to the fact that he's Wolverine. It's also getting harder and harder for him to fight; he has to yank his claws out even. -His money probably went towards his medicine which costs 45k a pop, apparently. The water tower is a close approximation of that Cerebro thing which did the same thing. It's not particularly effective. -He's dying of metal poisoning and age, the implication is his healing factor is focusing on the Logan loses to him both times! The first time Laura saves Logan by pinning X-24 with the car, the second time she shoots him in the head. The fat kid supersoldier got a laugh out of the theater though. e: Uh do quotes not get hidden inside spoiler tags now? I had to edit the quote blocks out to hide it. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 16:57
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There's not a lot of criticism about this movie that doesn't revolve around the critic not realizing that this is a partial pastiche of Shane and Wolverine's past is made literal in the story. This is a movie that looks at the beginning of Origins - with the montage of Wolverine the eternal warrior - and says "that's bad, this guy dealt out misery for centuries and should suffer"
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Mar 7, 2017 18:07
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Im also not trying to poo poo on anyone's ideas, but im also surprised how many people lament the lack of a stinger (post-credits scene). The expanded Marvel cinematic universe is successful, but the movies themselves break all kinds of rules about what is good writing and good story structure, and I was so relieved that Logan is just a movie with an ending and not a giant loving "OR MAYBE????" at the end. Like the story happened and now its over and we the audience get closure on that story, and we don't have to wait a year to see what happens next. I definitely wouldn't have noticed the Shane parallels without this thread, which is weird because i loving loved that book in school. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 18:13
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Thanks for reminding me how distracting Laura's cg booger drip was during that scene.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:15
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I'm not going to go through this whole list, but here's a few of the particularly misguided ones:Bust Rodd posted:~Where did all of Xavier's money go? How does a rusty water tower protect him from psychic interference? He's a senile old man on the run from the government. Either of these could easily result in his money being lost. What would an answer to how the tower works even look like? How do his telepathic powers work in the first place? Ribcages have gaps in them. It went between the ribs. We know the adamantium doesn't lock Wolverine's ribcage into a rigid mass because we can see him breathe. They're all bilingual, so she's quoting the movie in the language she heard it in, which is the sort of thing bilingual people do. RBA Starblade posted:e: Uh do quotes not get hidden inside spoiler tags now? I had to edit the quote blocks out to hide it. The spoiler tags have to be inside the quote tags, not the other way around.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:20
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Like everything about Logan in this movie is some element of Shane amped up to 11. Shane: A little boy who takes to Shane as a father figure is granted a peaceful place to live through Shane's gunfighting skills. Logan: Same except it's his actual, real daughter. Shane: Ryker's gunmen are Shane's gunfighter past come back to despoil the present. Logan: It's literally a younger cloned version of himself. Now Shane has no direct analogue to Professor X, and Logan has no analogue to the low-key love story playing out in Shane. It's not a direct copy or a remake. But watching Shane will really help the viewer get a handle on what Logan is trying to do.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:25
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Basically every nitpick and criticism of the movie seems to do with something related to the kids. Kids almost universally suck, especially as actors.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:25
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Sir Kodiak posted:The spoiler tags have to be inside the quote tags, not the other way around. Ohh, thanks for the headsup. quote:Now Shane has no direct analogue to Professor X, and Logan has no analogue to the low-key love story playing out in Shane. It's not a direct copy or a remake. But watching Shane will really help the viewer get a handle on what Logan is trying to do. I haven't watched it but the few scenes they showed in the film were enough to get me to see what it was doing. Even without it though it's got pretty obvious western influences.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:28
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Wait X-23's speech at the end is a quote from another movie? Is it from Shane? I completely and totally missed that. I guess I just assumed a dude who spent like 60 years running a school for international black ops special agents would have have the foresight to squirrel some money away in a safe or a vault somewhere. Maybe the gov't seized it when he went coocoo but it was only a year ago that it happened so it's not far-fetched to expect that they might talk about it. We already have Magneto's helmet and Juggernaught's helmet in universe to tell us "You need special metal to block psychic interference" and the water tower that you can literally see through the rusty holes of does not seem to be on par with that, so the answer to the question could have been "It was nice of Magneto to help you hide like this" or something. I'm glad the movie picks up pretty much right when you see their hideout because that whole sequence just had me scratching my head until the bad guys show up.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:45
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Bust Rodd posted:Wait X-23's speech at the end is a quote from another movie? Is it from Shane? I completely and totally missed that. She literally parrots what they were watching on tv earlier in the movie (hint: they even say the name of the movie in that scene).
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Mar 7, 2017 18:48
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Yeah, it's from Shane, the movie they watch in the hotel room. Xavier views himself as the headmaster of a school for special-needs children. Those sorts of people don't set up hidden caches of money. Even if Xavier saw himself as a black-ops agent, he can telepathically control anyone on the planet. Someone who can do that doesn't need to set up hidden caches of money. Unfortunately, like many people, he did not plan well for what happens when his mind goes. Which movie specifies that the helmets are made of a special metal?
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Mar 7, 2017 18:53
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They may as well have THIS IS EXTREMELY RELEVANT PAY ATTENTION flashing on screen during the sequence where the characters settle down for a moment to watch and discuss Shane.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:59
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"Xavier should have had secret cash stashes" is treating the movie like a puzzle to be solved, and not as a story.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:01
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Bust Rodd posted:We already have Magneto's helmet and Juggernaught's helmet in universe to tell us "You need special metal to block psychic interference" and the water tower that you can literally see through the rusty holes of does not seem to be on par with that, so the answer to the question could have been "It was nice of Magneto to help you hide like this" or something. I'm glad the movie picks up pretty much right when you see their hideout because that whole sequence just had me scratching my head until the bad guys show up. It's "best they can do in the desert" not "good"; we first see Professor X talking about Taco Bell. It's rusted and full of holes and he's communicating with Laura anyway. The whole point is it's not really working but they can't do any better.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"Xavier should have had secret cash stashes" is treating the movie like a puzzle to be solved, and not as a story. One of the great things about these sorts of lists is that, not only are they a broken way of approaching a story, but they generally don't even work on their own terms. Yeah, the guy who telepathically controls the president of the United States in multiple movies definitely would have planned for going on the lam like he's Jason Bourne. You've really out-thought the movie on this one.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"Xavier should have had secret cash stashes" is treating the movie like a puzzle to be solved, and not as a story. It's also dumb because there's nothing to say he didn't have secret cash stashes, but they must have spent it all because they're broke.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:22
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Mr. Flunchy posted:It's also dumb because there's nothing to say he didn't have secret cash stashes, but they must have spent it all because they're broke. Or that he forgot where they were because he's senile, or a hundred other reasons. It's like a movie has failed if it hasn't laboriously answered every possible question you could have had about the circumstances depicted within.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:24
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Buncha weird objections there.quote:~Given that the movie establishes Logan has no beef carving up dudes who gently caress with him, there has to be a better way to make money for him than being a loving limo driver 1- What ever gave you the impression he has no beef with it? Dude loving hates what he has to do and sure as gently caress doesn't like getting shot. Any job he gets that involves anything unusual would also draw a bunch of attention and he's supposed to be in hiding. He wants the most un-wolverine job he can get, and driving a limo at least gives him an excuse to go back and forth over the border. 2- Both the healing factor problem and the drug are explained and used consistently. His healing factor going to poo poo in particular is mentioned multiple times. He's sick and dying through the entire movie, and of course it works at the convenience of the plot but I'm not sure where it ever did anything it wasn't expected to. It's also a biological system and not a well engineered machine that has particular failure points so even if it was inconsistent it wouldn't be a flaw imo. Maybe it's harder to regenerate a liver than it is regular muscle tissue? Who knows, and it doesn't matter much. 3- I don't see how this matters at all or what about it doesn't make sense. People have phones and email and stuff. 4- He didn't have the opportunity before. And how would he force them to shoot him? If he resisted, they'd just have tortured him more because they need him. He goes out on his own terms and takes some of them with him because he saw a moment he could use and used it. Saying he should have done it earlier is nonsensical because the only thing that let him do it was everyone being distracted by the big fight. Also it's spelled Caliban. From the Tempest. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 19:46
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I thought it was pretty clear that Logan was more of a standalone. When you have like 9 movies with these characters I'd rather prefer a movie tell its own story rather than trying to make sure every little detail matches up with the previous films - which is partially why I dislike Marvel movies. I should not be required to watch an additional [number] to make sense of the story.Bust Rodd posted:X-Posting from the GBS thread, I just skimmed the thread and I am kinda surprised at the lack of general criticism in this thread. They set that up like 5 minutes before - any more injuries and he would die because of the vial he took. Then X-24 slammed him onto the tree stump, presumably between his ribs. Maybe it splintered through too. How is that inconsistent? Skizzzer fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 19:53
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NmareBfly posted:Maybe it's harder to regenerate a liver than it is regular muscle tissue? Who knows You picked a really lovely example there, because livers regenerate in ordinary humans.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:56
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I'm sorry but that whole post's style is chump. It's CinemaSins-level nitpicking about what SHOULD have happened and how what did happen doesn't make sense because it wasn't explicit enough and I'm so tired of criticism from this perspective. It's battery acid thrown in the face of the discussion - every subsequent post stops talking about the movie and starts addressing all the misconceptions and nitpicking bullet points. No thank you.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:57
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my bad btw that was awesome. I loved the brutality in the movie. The part where X-24 shoved his claws through Logan's armpit was badass too. Skizzzer fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 19:58
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You really need to tag these spoilers, Skizzzer.
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Mar 7, 2017 20:02
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