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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Condiv posted:i don't give a flying gently caress what fractious splinter of the DNC makes these decisions. they're making the absolute worst, most idiotic decisions possible and our leadership is nodding along approvingly. It helps to know who is responsible for fuckups, so that you can, you know. Exert pressure on them and get them to change their ways (or else get them fired). The point is, you have so much more leverage here than you realize. quote:lots of people already did this and they ignored us anyways. how many more times do we have to scream "stop forgetting about us" before the dems actually listen? Well, given how horrendously they lost in 2016, I guarantee you more of them are listening, and are afraid of the Bernie wing of the party abandoning them, than at any other point in our lifetime. 
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Apr 12, 2017 05:58
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Condiv posted:how? Do what the Tea Partiers did: go to their town hall meetings and their offices, and scare the poo poo out of them. (in an electoral, political sense, of course, not literally)
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Apr 12, 2017 06:01
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Majorian posted:It helps to know who is responsible for fuckups, so that you can, you know. Exert pressure on them and get them to change their ways (or else get them fired). yeah, just like after the election. we had so much leverage the centrist wing voted a worthless dnc chair in to keep use from having any power. that leverage also worked wonders when people were begging the dems to get involved in KS-04. i don't know why you think dems losing KS-04 will be the turning point, but it won't. they're even bringing idiot supreme hillary back quote:Well, given how horrendously they lost in 2016, I guarantee you more of them are listening, and are afraid of the Bernie wing of the party abandoning them, than at any other point in our lifetime. they don't fear us enough to give us anything but platitudes. also, they just, right now ignored us again, so if 2016 opened their ears, it obviously wasn't enough. apparently it will take a few more major loses (or being made illegal by a ruling republican party) for the dems to actually pay attention to us. Condiv fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 06:03
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Majorian posted:Do what the Tea Partiers did: go to their town hall meetings and their offices, and scare the poo poo out of them. (in an electoral, political sense, of course, not literally) people have been doing that too. and bad dems are still being bad dems
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Apr 12, 2017 06:03
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Condiv posted:yeah, just like after the election. we had so much leverage the centrist wing voted a worthless dnc chair in to keep use from having any power. If you expected the Sanders wing to start winning immediately after the election, you were living in a dream world. The reality is, we're going to have to fight for the control we want, but we can do it. quote:they don't fear us enough to give us anything but platitudes Because you take your ball and go home, rather than actually try.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:04
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Condiv posted:people have been doing that too. and bad dems are still being bad dems Some are, some are being less-bad. Who knows, if progressives keep trying, they might make some of those bad dems significantly less bad. Like, probably not in their heart of hearts; they'll still be total whores. But that shouldn't concern you or any of us. What matters is how they vote and what they back publicly.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:05
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Majorian posted:If you expected the Sanders wing to start winning immediately after the election, you were living in a dream world. The reality is, we're going to have to fight for the control we want, but we can do it. i shouldn't be mad that we have to fight for month on end against clueless and incompetent leadership that will cling to the party and try to destroy it if we remove them? cause we're not going to remove the crappy dem leadership by 08, which means even more losses for the dems coming up quote:Because you take your ball and go home, rather than actually try. no actually that's the dems. that's what they just loving did. republicans had the VP campaigning for their candidate. the berniecrat on the other hand had no-one, no support at all. cause the dems couldn't be bothered to try Condiv fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 06:08
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Majorian posted:Some are, some are being less-bad. Who knows, if progressives keep trying, they might make some of those bad dems significantly less bad. Like, probably not in their heart of hearts; they'll still be total whores. But that shouldn't concern you or any of us. What matters is how they vote and what they back publicly. that doesn't matter either cause perez backed a 50-state strategy publicly, but when the rubber met the road he abandoned support for that
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Apr 12, 2017 06:08
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Majorian posted:Because you take your ball and go home, rather than actually try. seriously, i live in one of the reddest states, and up until last election i was a solid dem voter. I've been trying my whole life to have some democrats in charge of my state. meanwhile, the DNC has completely abandoned my state. it's supremely insulting that you claim i'm the one who's giving up when dems gave up long, long ago.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:14
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Majorian posted:
Mostly I agree with this. However alot of the people in state parties do have some element of clintonite ideolodgy in them and so do actively want to undermine the left. These people will need to as Kansas shows, be Purged. We don't wnat them in the party, hell they might as well vote GOP. @ Condiv try to get into your state party and help purge it of internal parasites.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:19
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Crowsbeak posted:Mostly I agree with this. However alot of the people in state parties do have some element of clintonite ideolodgy in them and so do actively want to undermine the left. These people will need to as Kansas shows, be Purged. We don't wnat them in the party, hell they might as well vote GOP. @ Condiv try to get into your state party and help purge it of internal parasites. If by "purged," you mean removed from positions of leadership and replaced by someone more competent, then yes, that's what I'm aiming at.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:28
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Keep in mind Majorian was a big part of the "yell at everyone who isn't an enthusiastic Clinton supporter and call them racist-sexists" brigade.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:28
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Crowsbeak posted:Mostly I agree with this. However alot of the people in state parties do have some element of clintonite ideolodgy in them and so do actively want to undermine the left. These people will need to as Kansas shows, be Purged. We don't wnat them in the party, hell they might as well vote GOP. @ Condiv try to get into your state party and help purge it of internal parasites. my state party is good, and my state voted for bernie in the primaries. i know the chair of my state party and he's a good guy. but he gets no support whatsoever from the national party too that's why i love being told i'm the one who's given up. the DNC and their cronies have given up on any non-safe state, but me and other abandoned dems trying to keep the dream alive are pouting and taking our ball home
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Apr 12, 2017 06:29
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From what I'm reading, Thompson was strong partly because he didn't get DCCC support.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:28
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gohmak posted:From what I'm reading, Thompson was strong partly because he didn't get DCCC support. If the pundits who wrote this remotely believed it in any way, Schumer and the other centrists would already have their resignations signed.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:30
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Majorian posted:If by "purged," you mean removed from positions of leadership and replaced by someone more competent, then yes, that's what I'm aiming at. they need to be removed entirely so their corruption can't spread. right now the DNC is only around to help corrupt corporate dems and republicans get elected gohmak posted:From what I'm reading, Thompson was strong partly because he didn't get DCCC support. that makes no goddamn sense whatsoever is this from the "if we support him, the repubs will support the republican harder" school of thought? cause the republican got over 100k from the RNC and the vice president was out campaigning for him.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:31
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Shbobdb posted:Keep in mind Majorian was a big part of the "yell at everyone who isn't an enthusiastic Clinton supporter and call them racist-sexists" brigade. Being that I myself could do that at times. I have to say lay off him. Anyways he's right, Schumer if he was a committed clintonite would be ignoring this.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:33
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https://twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/852003915604393984 obviously this means the lovely centrists are listening and receptive
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Apr 12, 2017 06:34
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Huffpoquote:The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee on Monday began doing live calls to 25,000 households in Kansas’ 4th Congressional District, urging residents to vote in Tuesday’s unexpectedly competitive special election. Sounds like they saw the polling swing in his direction and rightly decided to back the gently caress off. Sometimes politics is local and voters will back the candidate they know or trust and sometimes they just back their party. gohmak fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 06:37
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gohmak posted:Huffpo so yes. it's an idiotic theory and proof positive that the DNC is worthless https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/851972265252188160 the repubs aren't hiding from their shadows even though people hate them so much a safe red seat almost swung blue with no dem support at all. Condiv fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 06:40
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gohmak posted:Huffpo Yeah that's loving horseshit. They already were tying him to Nancy Pelosi. Centrists like you who fear how the GOP will attack us really frankly need to either change your personality entirely or not take part in elections.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:40
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah that's loving horseshit. They already were tying him to Nancy Pelosi. Centrists like you who fear how the GOP will attack us really frankly need to either change your personality entirely or not take part in elections. Centrist like me? What the gently caress is going on here?
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Apr 12, 2017 06:42
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it's amazing how dems are always making the right political moves, but are always losing at the same time. god must just hate them
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Apr 12, 2017 06:45
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gohmak posted:Centrist like me? What the gently caress is going on here? Its a centrist argument that we can't give the GOP talking points. Its a centrist argument that open races cannot be won. Its a centrist argument any race besides those against beloved senators are hopeless.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:48
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Condiv posted:that doesn't matter either cause perez backed a 50-state strategy publicly, but when the rubber met the road he abandoned support for that Purposely losing 30 states is technically a strategy. If you thought a 50-state strategy was a strategy to win in 50 states, that mistake is on you. We hate to win!
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Apr 12, 2017 07:06
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Crowsbeak posted:Its a centrist argument that we can't give the GOP talking points. Its a centrist argument that open races cannot be won. Its a centrist argument any race besides those against beloved senators are hopeless. Nah buddy. Getting mad that a centrist organization thought it would be bad optics to support a conservative leaning centrist candidate sound pretty pathetic to me.
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Apr 12, 2017 07:16
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Shbobdb posted:Keep in mind Majorian was a big part of the "yell at everyone who isn't an enthusiastic Clinton supporter and call them racist-sexists" brigade. That's not true at all. I was a Sanders supporter. I did tell people who lived in swing states and refused to vote against Trump that they were being stupid, so perhaps I...triggered you? Just a little? 
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Apr 12, 2017 07:23
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gohmak posted:Huffpo Eh, I don't think that's exactly the lesson to take from this, but it's close. Candidates need DCCC support, because, hey, can't run a campaign without some money. But it's important that those same candidates speak directly to their constituents, and signal that they're not beholden to corporate interests, mega-donors, or "those out of touch no-good Washington elites." (or a similar euphemism)
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Apr 12, 2017 07:29
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i'm sure this will be the loss that wakes the idiotic dem leadership up. we will certainly not lose ground in 2018 cause a clueless establishment ignores every state cept new york and california
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Apr 12, 2017 07:36
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I don't see any reason to give to the national party at this point. I donated directly to Rob Quist in Montana. Somebody has to and the party aint gonna. Why the gently caress are they writing off Montana's at-large district. The state elected a Democratic governor in 2016 and they have a two-term Democratic senator. Yet they treat it like it's Texas or something and they just can't win a statewide election there. Oh yeah and the Republican running against Quist is the same billionaire carpetbagger everyone hates who managed to underperform Trump by 9 points in a statewide election and lose to a Democrat.
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Apr 12, 2017 07:41
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VitalSigns posted:I don't see any reason to give to the national party at this point. I donated directly to Rob Quist in Montana. Somebody has to and the party aint gonna. they will not be helping anyone but incumbents perez was full of poo poo when he talked about a 50 state strategy. he has a 2 state strategy
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Apr 12, 2017 07:43
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VitalSigns posted:I don't see any reason to give to the national party at this point. I donated directly to Rob Quist in Montana. Somebody has to and the party aint gonna. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. quote:Why the gently caress are they writing off Montana's at-large district. The state elected a Democratic governor in 2016 and they have a two-term Democratic senator. Yet they treat it like it's Texas or something and they just can't win a statewide election there. Welp, they've got another month. I expect some parts of the DCCC were waiting to see how the Kansas race would go. Since it went pretty drat well for the economic progressive, all things considered, hopefully they'll get their asses into gear for Montana. And if they don't, progressives need to make their lives a living hell unless they start movin'.
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Apr 12, 2017 07:45
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Majorian posted:I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. the DCCC didn't even realize special elections were a thing until just recently. they won't be getting their asses in gear, because they weren't elected to help anyone
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Apr 12, 2017 07:47
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this electoral loss is the one that's gonna make the DNC get serious. sure, they didn't get serious after one of the biggest losses we've seen as a party, but this one is gonna make the DNC leadership care
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Apr 12, 2017 07:50
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Condiv posted:this electoral loss is the one that's gonna make the DNC get serious. sure, they didn't get serious after one of the biggest losses we've seen as a party, but this one is gonna make the DNC leadership care Then what are you even doing here? Come on, we're here to talk about ways forward, not to wallow in hopelessness.
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Apr 12, 2017 08:03
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Majorian posted:Then what are you even doing here? Come on, we're here to talk about ways forward, not to wallow in hopelessness. no this thead is literally for discussing the democrats and the actions they are taking now, as well as discussing whether or not they will change the DPP thread in c-spam is more focused on what you're wanting to discuss if that's what you want to discuss, but this is the thread for discussing if the dems will change and win, and from current evidence, no they wont
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Apr 12, 2017 08:07
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Condiv posted:no this thead is literally for discussing the democrats and the actions they are taking now, as well as discussing whether or not they will change Yeah, and whenever someone says "Here's how they might change for the better," you close your eyes and plug your ears and shout "NOPE. NOPE. NEVER GONNA CHANGE. NOPE." It's obnoxious, and I wish you'd knock it off.
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Apr 12, 2017 08:10
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Majorian posted:Yeah, and whenever someone says "Here's how they might change for the better," you close your eyes and plug your ears and shout "NOPE. NOPE. NEVER GONNA CHANGE. NOPE." It's obnoxious, and I wish you'd knock it off. because it's speculation that's been proven wrong with more major failures. again, why is this the election that changes things for the better? the dem establishment is already circling the wagons to defend themselves from blame for this loss, and they promised not 2 months ago that they were going to have a 50-state strategy and they've already gone back on that. how about you say "they might change for the better" when they actually do something that indicates they're gonna change? cause they've done absolutely nothing to show that they realize they hosed up in this election, or last election, or the last 8 years
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Apr 12, 2017 08:18
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Majorian posted:That's not true at all. I was a Sanders supporter. I did tell people who lived in swing states and refused to vote against Trump that they were being stupid, so perhaps I...triggered you? Just a little? So this election made me reexamine how I think about politics. I don't see how it could be any other way for anyone who claims to be remotely leftist or even centrist for that matter. The real test of this election was if it prompted you to reexamine, if not your beliefs, then at least how you approach politics. If it didn't, then it's unlikely that anything ever will, and you probably have some mild brain damage. Speaking of mild brain damage I notice our pet centrist idiot has been remarkably silent since around the time Hillary came out in favor of more wars. That's good.
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Apr 12, 2017 08:20
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Condiv posted:because it's speculation that's been proven wrong with more major failures. again, why is this the election that changes things for the better? Things don't change on a dime like that; it takes sustained pressure from below before party leadership starts to transform. The Republicans didn't immediately accede to the Tea Party's demands, either - but they still bended to their will relatively quickly. The Democrats will do the same, if we keep putting pressure on them. Just sitting out of the process and whining on dead gay comedy forums isn't going to help speed this process along, though.
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Apr 12, 2017 08:22
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