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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There's an interesting article out today about the election results, by Nate Cohn. That's what it argues, but the numbers it cites don't exactly back that up. In most of the examples they give, it just seems like they didn't learn the other lesson of 2016: margin of error matters. Also, they don't seem to take into account population change. For example, in their discussion of Schuylkill County, they note that Hillary had 7,776 fewer votes compared to Obama and point to the fact that the number of registered voters that stayed home in 2016 is unlikely to account for more than half that sum...but they make a point of ignoring population changes, even though that county's population has dropped by roughly 5,000 people since 2010.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:59
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JeffersonClay posted:I'm asking myself what did Obama do during his 2nd term that pissed off 25% of his white working class supporters and that Trump offered a credible enough alternative? Immigration-- DACA and DAPA-- is a strong contender. What makes you think Obama has anything to do with it? If they voted for Obama and not for Hillary, wouldn't that be a problem with Hillary, not Obama?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:19
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I get staying home because you're disillusioned with Democrats; I don't get voting Republican unless you're okay with overt racism The definition of "overt racism" is somewhat subjective, though. There's a fair number of people out there who would say that Trump wasn't racist, and that the real racists were the Dems and the media for implying that all Hispanic-Americans were pro-illegal-immigration. There's a wide cultural agreement that "racism is bad", but it was heavily co-opted by racists, who survived that cultural shift by promoting alternative definitions of "racism" that took root right into the shift against racism.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:14
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Ytlaya posted:edit: Actually, what I just mentioned above brings me to a greater point about why most of my posts tend to focus on arguing with the more centrist (I know they're not actually centrist but I can't think of a more accurate term) posters. I don't really understand the motivation behind Democrats/liberals who spend a lot of time/effort arguing and disagreeing with leftists. Leftists have very little power within the Democratic Party, so there isn't any risk of some of their dumber proponents having much of an influence. But more mainstream/centrist Democrats do have a bunch of power and more or less control the party, so, to me, it seems more important to focus on criticizing their shortcomings (since they can actually influence the country). So even though I actually thinking that JeffersonClay (for example) is smarter than some of the leftist posters in this thread, I consider the problems with his views to be a more pressing issue since they more closely reflect the problems that exist with the actual Democratic Party (as opposed to some hypothetical radical left party that isn't going to be coming into power any time soon). I spend a lot of time arguing with leftists because I want them to succeed. I tolerate centrists as a bulwark against the right, but I'd much rather see them replaced by leftists. In reality, though, the economic left's power has been on a decline for decades while power has flowed into the hands of the centrists, and that means that the left needs to do better. People complain a lot about the perceived political incompetence of the centrists, but they at least managed to take control of the Democratic Party and even hold majorities in Congress a few times, and that's more than we can say for the left in the past couple decades. Sure, the system's stacked against them on numerous levels, but it always has been, and it's not going to change just from whining about it - we need to rebuild a strong left, and that means grassroots organizing with committed leaders rising from out of the movement to dedicate their time to causes they truly believe in. This might be the first time in two decades or more that the left has done anything besides flailing helplessly or throwing minor tantrums, and I really want to see that energy directed in productive directions rather than getting bogged down in distractions or dissipating. Bernie Sanders works fine as the starting point for the movement, but the leaders the left should really be looking to for the future are grassroots figures like Pete Buttigieg or khalid kamau, not establishment pedestals like Sanders or Ellison.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:29
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Why don't we take this (inane, ridiculous) discussion a bit further and look at people who voted for Obama in 2008 but not 2012? It hasn't been examined or analyzed or polled nearly as deeply because no one really saw any mysteries in "extremely popular incumbent who won first election in huge landslide won in slightly smaller landslide", but Obama lost two states in 2012 that he'd won in 2008 (Indiana and North Carolina), and his margin of victory shrank massively in states like FL, PA, WI, and MI - the same four states in which Trump had the smallest margin of victory over Clinton.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:13
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