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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Condiv posted:no she literally acknowleges "unaccompanied units" fleeing from drug and gang violence, and then says they shouldn't be able to stay in the US. she literally says that they're refugees, and then says we should deport them anyway. to set an example.... This video appears to be older than a day, which is longer than the half life decay of Hillary's opinion, and therefore likely not representative of her dear, long held beliefs as of this moment.
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Mar 27, 2017 19:47
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Majorian posted:
I think moderate Republican Dems are primarily afraid of other principles being jettisoned!
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Mar 29, 2017 11:50
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completely. I think a lot of centrist Dems are afraid that, since Trump was able to break through the ranks of more established primary candidates so easily, the left-Dems will do the same thing with a left-wing version of Trump, jettisoning principles like antiracism in the process.
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All these racists hating a blonde white woman.
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Mar 29, 2017 18:38
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Please forward me to the elaborate fantasies of Dem murder itt, I'd like to peruse them while pleasuring myself.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:44
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It's very privileged to consider life something worth hanging onto instead of a disposable accident that breeds nothing but regrets.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:49
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JeffersonClay posted:Obama voters can't be racist, in spite of the evidence showing Obama voters with the most racist views were significantly more likely to view Trump positively. Similarly, none of the republicans who supported Ben Carson or Herman Cain can possibly be racists, as they voted for a black man over a white one once, or even twice! Similarly, white people with a black friend or a black employee cannot possibly be racists, as they could easily have chosen white friends or employees instead. If we can accept that Obama' s electorate was racist, why can't we accept that Repuvlicans are latently progressive.
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Apr 1, 2017 22:18
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Majorian posted:Plus I love the notion that, now that voters who supported Obama but defected to Trump are gone, the Democratic Party is somehow free from racists in its ranks. No big-tent party is ever going to be free of racists, homophobes, classists, and other "undesirables." But the Dems can't afford to lose too many more voters at this point, and acting like they can win without something resembling the Obama coalition is beyond delusional. Well, yes, but I was largely serious about a major issue with the Dem Party, not just flippant about this particular argument. If Obama was objectively able to get ol racists on his side, it is incredibly disingenuous, and revealing of the anti-socialist agenda of most Democrats, to suggest that Republicans can't be won over with a progressive platform, and that nobody should even try because obviously those fuckers are forever in the enemy camp.
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Apr 1, 2017 22:26
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7c Nickel posted:No he isn't, and you won't find a single post by him saying that. Being aware that holding correct position will not help you, and may in fact hurt you, electorally does change how you need to approach campaigning. For example you may find that you need not campaign, and should instead give paid speeches behind closed doors.
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Apr 1, 2017 22:44
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GlyphGryph posted:Most Obama voters were racist whether your charts say so or not so that cant be true. There's one guy in the whole of US who isn't racist, his name is Jeff, and he's the key to Democrat victory in 2018.
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Apr 1, 2017 23:52
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Very science. Such statistic.
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Apr 1, 2017 23:53
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Khrushchev told JFK "I won you the presidency", therefore the Cuban missile crisis was an elaborate con where JFK deferred to his overlords in Moscow.
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Apr 1, 2017 23:57
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Kilroy posted:Turns out the more racist you are the more likely you are to vote for Trump. Who knew? This graph proves God's providence is the force steering word towards harmony, as the children of Adam fall perfectly on a straight line.
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Apr 1, 2017 23:59
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Differentiate: - Core of Trump's actual enthusiastic voters was composed of middle class, fairly secure people with a strong resentment for helping others - Aside from that there were millions who were turned off by the election altogether, and either ended up not voting, or ended on Trump's side due to a failure by Dems to appeal to them. These people are generally the lower class disenfranchised folks. The former camp, which is made up of terrible people, wasn't crucial in deciding the election. The latter was, and I'd argue that bigotry in it was coincidental to their decision not to vote for Hillary compared to the impact of terrible campaigning. Now you have to ask yourself, is the fact that some of your voters may be racist a deal breaker even if their racism is not what got them to support you. If you answer yes, I'm going to say you are not suited to be a politician at all because you are deliberately constraining yourself by factors entirely outside your control, and thus unnecessarily hurting your dependents. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 11:26
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Guess what. We just did. Progressives lost. Are you saying that racism has won, and that's that?
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Apr 2, 2017 18:26
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blackguy32 posted:So you tell me. Why wasn't the super predator narrative effective as turning black people away from Hillary Clinton as a candidate? It probably helped that the guy running against her was the worst candidate in recent history re. minority issues. Though she still didn't perform remarkably well among minorities, which is damning.
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Apr 2, 2017 20:06
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YodaTFK posted:So you see, blackguy32, you are the real racist. So no matter what a politician does, it can't be racist if they can find a black person to endorse them?
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Apr 2, 2017 22:34
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Fulchrum posted:No, it was the one who wanted to dump nuclear waste near majority latino cities. Ahaha, you imbeciles have found this one thing and have obsessed so much about it you've turned it into Bernie personally shoveling plutonium on Mexico City from a chopper. This is a new level of pathetic. "Near majority Latino city" - "Miles away from a community of 200 in the desert, which currently makes money by importing and spreading New York waste around its perimeter."
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Apr 3, 2017 09:11
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blackguy32 posted:I think she laughing that you don't get it. That yall are saying just provide them with better social programs and they will support you, when while they do care, they care more about hurting minorities and protecting whiteness. Most people are not sociopaths and caricatures. Again, there's a difference between the core Trump supporter (well off, bigoted, selfish) and the millions of people who did not vote, were on the fence, misguided low information voters etc.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:21
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:...those tweets are making fun of the recent spat of legitimate "profiles" of Trump voters. I don't know what the point of those tweets is if any, but I'm responding to bg32's idea that most people would rather die of hunger in a ditch if their black neighbors died before them in a slightly worse ditch.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:25
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And the usual suspects have flocked to point out that welfare state is bad because some of its supporters might be racist, even if the pitching of the welfare state concept has nothing to do with it, and specifically targets people who are not self proclaimed white supremacists due to the intersectional profile of people who would be interested in big gubermint overreach in the first place.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:28
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:That is literally what the people in these articles are saying, dude. They're surprised that the policies are going to hurt them, but they're still proud of their vote because he's gonna stick it to the immigrants. Lots of them, yes. But of the tens of millions of people who voted Trump / didn't vote at all, there is certainly at least a margin of people who do not share this mentality, and a small margin would have been sufficient to tip the election. It makes no sense to say that because of the most idiotic voters there should categorically be no outreach whatsoever.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:31
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:THAT'S NOT THE GODDAMN POINT. The point is you're unlikely to ever actually get a lot of these voters by expanding the welfare state; you'll only get these voters by supporting the racist bullshit. Nobody is arguing against expanding the welfare state. I'm certainly not, at least. Either supporting or ignoring racist bullshit can not happen and is non-negotiable. Hopefully, some people will be won over by promoting true progressive economic reform, but I am not optimistic about that, and I worry that the left will take an easier solution and just stop talking about minorities. This is a bunch of entirely empirically unsupported assumptions.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:44
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:It's a bunch of assumptions, yeah. My empirical support is that people obviously exist who vote against their economic interests for [reasons], whether it's racism, misogyny, draw to personality or relatability of the candidate, ignorance, or otherwise. I'm merely making assumption that not a hard 100% of American white electorate is entirely economically irrational, which frankly seems to be a weaker assumption than the opposite. Which I know you are not making, but you are proceeding to the same conclusions as if it were true.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:53
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How wide is the set of "these people". Anybody who has ever cast a vote for the GOP? Anybody who has ever NOT cast a vote for a running Democrat? Suburban racist Dems?
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Apr 3, 2017 18:55
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So if I understand it correctly - Economic reform is good and not coddling of racists... Therefore the progressive economic platform, apparently accused of a tendency to coddling racists, is actually not coddling racists. I don't see where problems come from, there is no inconsistency between what economic progressives say and what you suggest to be a desirable policy by its own virtues.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:45
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Ferrinus posted:It's perfectly fine to call Trump voters racists because many of them are (and some of those unabashedly so) and they're more likely to stop being racists or at least stop actively doing and supporting racist things if they suffer social pressure and censure from some at the same time as others offer them a path out of the hole they've dug for themselves. It just seems reasonable to expect that the shaming and hostility to come from private citizens rather than public servants trying to amass votes. Yes. At the same time, the social pressure won't be effective if it comes along with an impression that they are expected to self-sacrifice, i.e. if there's no carrot to match the stick. In that case they will enter a feedback loop of racism and anti-liberalism. Instead it would be nice to let people know that working with others is beneficial for everybody - and do so NOT through empty platitudes.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:17
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Kilroy posted:Maybe it's these "dumb leftists" you keep going on about. I believe you may have misread something.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:52
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I like the idea that you are allowed to grandfather in racist dems responsible for the poo poo the country is in - because they are valued allies - but anybody who wishes to join the party after the moment you drew an arbitrary line in the sand must bend over backwards to prove their purity.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:54
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:My hatred for Bernie Sanders is so all-encompassing that I want a Democratic Party so far to the left that he is sent to the gulag as a revisionist class traitor That would be beautiful, and I think Comrade Sanders would gladly make the selfless sacrifice to remove himself from the way of youth and progress. Unlike Rodham Clinton. 
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Apr 3, 2017 21:10
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Fulchrum posted:Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). Suddenly when it fits the centrist narrative, racism and bigotry in general is absolutely dead. As soon as a challenger appears, he is an embodiment of bigotry deeply ingrained in society in a variety of subtle ways.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:30
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R. Guyovich posted:This dog is not fat. As a poodle owner, I insist he is at least overweight.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:32
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JeffersonClay posted:How many of the Bernie Bros were actually Russian sock puppets? This isn't meant as a snide question. How much of the rift in the Democratic Party/US left is attributable to their agitprop? Scoffing at the possibility the Russians had any significant influence here is not smart. Democrats really sound like bizarro universe Soviet aparatchiks / current Our Russia Putin nationalists with their paranoia that every expression of dissent is a ploy by the Nobody would willingly speak out against the Revolution without getting paid for it by reactionary forces. Seriously, you nutjobs are much closer to Putin's crowd than Conservatives could ever dream.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:44
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JeffersonClay posted:So you're white knighting the Berniebros as noble dissenters here? I thought the narrative was they weren't real. Is it crazy to think they were created by reactionaries in order to discredit the left and drive a wedge into the democratic coalition? No, putin would never think of something like that *ignores massive Russian support for conservative parties in Europe* So you are pretending that you aren't using BernieBro as a blanket insult for anybody who made any sort of remark against Hillary.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:54
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Nevvy Z posted:Sure, does going left get those votes? Does it get enough of those votes to win? Does it get more of those votes than simply running someone who doesn't have 30 years of targeted media hate against them? Can anyone support this with data? Better not try!
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Apr 4, 2017 18:17
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JeffersonClay posted:You've got a strange commitment to missing the point here. The Bernie progressive coalition was the victim of a Russian active measures campaign to discredit them among other Democrats as racists and misogynists. Similarly, the Russians hacked and released podesta's emails to discredit the clinton campaign among the Bernie progressive coalition. I don't know what purpose it serves for you to pretend this didn't happen. You are as slimy and awful a piece of human garbage as your champion.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:29
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loquacius posted:I said this in another thread, but if "the Russians did this too" is the narrative that will make people finally move on from the Bernie Bro narrative, I welcome it with open arms It entirely whitewashes the responsibility of the centrists for conspiring against the progressive wing of their party, and makes the progressives come to "peace" with people who are still scheming to remove them from politics. For the sake of survival, the left must remember what enemies it faces.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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Nevvy Z posted:What about that post did you disagree with? They are trying to wash their hands over a campaign of political backstabbing and humiliation they themselves perpetuated, and over which they gloated with unparalleled smugness until their own ambitions imploded.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:32
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Nevvy Z posted:What backstabbing? who backstabbed somebody? Did JC hurt bernie? Democrat leaders, pundits and posters including JC and his ilk spent the most heated part of the primaries constructing and promoting the narrative which they now try to offload on some made up Russian conspirators. It was backstabbing as much as any other form of foul play because it was a deliberate, lie filled smear campaign against a running opponent, in an environment that was supposed to promote strength and unity in the party through competition of platforms, a vision HRC herself formally endorsed.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:37
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Nevvy Z posted:Ah. So this is just about continuing the crusade against HRC. You are as bad as Donald Trump and his team. If somebody tried to kick you out of a house you co-own, failed, and then tried to claim it was actually the neighbor who changed the lock and barricaded the windows and plastered the neighborhood with leaflets calling you a rapist, and didn't even apologize Would you just return to live with him under one roof as if nothing happened
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Apr 4, 2017 18:41
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