Fulchrum posted:

What the gently caress is wrong with your brain that you think that the "elite liberals" are literally - not figuratively or metaphorically, but literally - telling their base to get hosed?

Trump ground one of their most sacredly held beliefs into the dust and poo poo on it, they immediately tossed any inkling of ever opposing Russia down the memory hole - something you are actively helping them with. Meanwhile, "elite liberals" do everything short of full surrender to the base and you treat it like it's a declaration of open hate. You actively look for any reason you can to not support the dems.

Fulchrum posted:

Because he's "sold out" and they need to "send a message", yes.

Also shut the gently caress up you nazi propaganda spewing poo poo head.

Fulchrum posted:

Actually, I still want to try and unpack this, because even if it matched any political reality where Republicans didn't treat their base as brainless cretins who will pull the lever no matter what, it's literally "Billy's mom and dad bought him an Xbox for Christmas! YOU'RE THE WORST PARENTS EVER AND I HATE YOU!"

Fulchrum posted:

Perhaps you should be a Republican. That way you can read all of Breitbart, not just the parts about Hillary, Obama and the dem leadership that is totally trustworthy and you feel the need to keep spreading.

Until then, shut the gently caress up you nazi propaganda spewing little poo poo.

Fulchrum posted:

Why was Ellison spreading Breitbart propaganda about himself by saying that he once supported the Nation of Islam?

And when have you ever not quoted Breitbart about how the primary was rigged, Hillary is corrupt and evil, Dem leadership doesn't care about working people and hates their base?

Stop spreading nazi propaganda you little poo poo.

Fulchrum posted:

Haitians got a 72% increase to minimum wage you delusional piece of poo poo. It says a lot about how deeply you care about them and weren't just using it exactly as Breitbart does, as a cud gel against Hillary for being a bitch, that you didn't even know that.

JeffersonClay posted:

You think it's a good thing for sweatshop laborers to lose their jobs and have repeatedly stated you don't give a poo poo what happens to them as long as US manufacturing benefits.

Fulchrum posted:

Remember how Haiti totally had a way to force companies to stay in Haiti and not just move, destroying the economy?

Fulchrum posted:

You honestly think these were skilled workers in a specialized factory?


Speaks volumes of what you genuinely care about that you immediately switch to another talking point you got off Breitbart when you realise context makes it not an effective attack against Hillary.

Fulchrum posted:

And we're right back to "How dare they think they can tell us the truth? gently caress them forever!"

The great unforgivable sin of the Democrats gravest insult to their base is respecting them enough to be honest.

Fulchrum posted:

So you are appreciative that they never once promised single payer coverage knowing that it could never ever happen, and thus never broke their promise?

And it's good to know "doing what you can" is cowardice.

Fulchrum posted:

And right on time we have the nazi propaganda spewer giving full credit for civil rights advances to Republicans. Wanna follow it up with "Lincoln was a Republican" next?

VitalSigns posted:

No it's a pretty good analogy.

Hillary Clinton knew exactly how bad segregation and "separate but equal" were, yet borrowed the segregationists' arguments when it came to gay people.

The Democrats' opposition to gay rights was never about telling hard truths to dumb leftist babies who believe in pie-in-the-sky nonsense that will never happen like equal rights, as Fulchrum claims. Liberal Democrats agreed with and argued for segregation either because they believed lies about gay people or they cynically believed that lying about gay people would trick Republicans into voting for them.

Fulchrum posted:

Show me quote containing the words "Gay marriage should and will never happen". Do it. Don't repost Dems saying their personal view is that marriage is between a man and a woman, because that's just thought policing absent any active attempt to stop it. The Dems have been defined as the party who think you don't legislate according to your personal feelings on an issue but what the facts state, and you're attempting to claim that dem personal beliefs completely overrode that tendency and that they fought against gay marriage.

Squalid posted:

I was surprised to find out the biggest change in the Democratic party over the last decade has been how it become much less moderate and more (American) liberal. The change was largely subtractive, with the Blue Dogs of old being replaced with Republicans. I doubt this trend is likely to continue much longer, but I feel this is a strange and unsettled political moment we live in.

Kilroy posted:

JeffersonClay and Fulchrum have got to be the most effective advocates against the Democratic party I've ever heard of. I think I'd rather vote straight-ticket socialist for the rest of my miserable life and just let the GOP rule supreme forever, if it meant I wouldn't have to make the same mark on ballot as either of these two. For gently caress's sake - you're both just awful people, each in your own way.

khwarezm posted:

Oh gently caress off with this, if you've been looking at Syria for the last four years and think Assad and what he represents isn't 99% of the reason the country is in such a disaster then you are a god damned fool. He probably has more blood on his hand than any political leader in power today and frankly the continued presence of despots like him will ensure the Middle East remains unstable for decades to come.

They aren't even wrong about Iran in some ways, they have sent a vast amount of resources to prop up Assad's regime and have huge influence in Iraq (and to a lesser extent Yemen and Lebanon). In neither case have they really taken many steps to try and reel in the Shi'ite supremacism and violence that has helped make organisations like ISIS so appealing to disenfranchised Sunnis, and honestly why would they?

Squalid posted:

The voice of the People isn't exactly how I'd describe the modern Democratic Party. . .

Fulchrum posted:

Ah, so you are admitting that military action to stop the Nazis is justified.

JeffersonClay posted:

No crowsbeak has literally said he doesn't give a poo poo about non-american workers and shouldn't have to, so kvetching about the Haitian minimum wage from him is pretty drat rich.

Ogmius815 posted:

So I hear this is the new tankie thread c/d? I don't want to get caught with my pants down not praising such glorious champions of anti-imperialism as putinist Russia and Iran.

Fulchrum posted:

Also, oh no, I didn't know that Republicans liked Russia! Whatever will we do? Well, we could leverage their hatred for racism - wait, Republicans like racism? Can't oppose that then. But at least we have lgbt rights - they hate those? Oh poo poo! Well, there's Trump's historic unfavorable. Oh no, Republicans approve of Trump? There's no options!

Fulchrum posted:

I'm not the one who cares desperately enough what Nazis want me to think that I check Breitbart constantly to see what Nazi propaganda I need to be spewing everywhere.

DeadlyMuffin posted:

What's baddem? I'm pointing out what I saw. I, with my own eyes, saw some pretty misogynistic poo poo from Bernie supporters directed at Hillary. I don't think Bernie supporters were much of a factor in her loss, but as a woman who cares about politics it was pretty depressing to see.

I think you're massively overestimating Bernie's popularity. I'd be very happy if he ran as a Democrat in 2018, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't. He said he'd run as a Democrat in future elections during the primary, when the question could be geared towards future presidential elections, has he said so after Trump won? That'd be great.

Main Paineframe posted:

As usual, Hillary Clinton is a coward who does nothing but make excuses and refuse to face up to her own culpability for her loss, and Bernie Sanders is a flawless angel who was utterly cheated and robbed by the insurmountable power of the weak and pathetic centrists who are literally incapable of winning elections.

If the left wants power, it needs to win, not sit around whining about how they lost but it's not fair and the centrists should surrender all power to them anyway. Yes, the big donors and the establishment favored the establishment candidate - but that's the nature of the game, and something the left knew full well was going to happen.

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

TyrantWD posted:

The fact that someone like Feingold lost, and by a larger amount than Hillary lost by in Wisconsin shows you how far right/left the country really is. Anyone who thinks Democrats lost because the party was too centrist, and a true liberal would have cleaned house needs to look at the Wisconsin senate race and see how nonsense that idea is.

If this election was really all about Hillary being bad, Feingold would have won Wisconsin while Hillary lost, but he didn't.

JeffersonClay posted:

Electing Donald trump has already resulted in a significant, measurable increase in bigotry. You can't legislate an end to racism. It's about culture, too, and a country's leadership is an important component of the transmission and modification of culture.

She advocated for policies that would help minorities as well, both directly and with economic measures that would help the poor generally, but the last time I cited and linked them you said it didn't matter because she didn't really campaign on them.

JeffersonClay posted:

The campaign slogan was stronger together, that's clearly about defending pluralism. She spoke at length about a positive American exceptionalism, where embracing our diversity was a core strength of the country. She contrasted Trump's sexism with the symbolism of electing the first woman president. She contrasted his racism and islamophobia with protecting and expanding the gains made in Obama's presidency.

Frijolero posted:

Pelosi on Anderson Cooper

We're doomed.

Democrats gonna sit on their hands in 2018 and hope the people vote against Trump instead of putting forth an actual plan and messsage.