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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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And look at the substantial shifts in GOP opinion on free trade and Russia since Trump got the nomination. He told the base to get hosed on those issues and they loved him for it.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:26
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Kilroy posted:And this supports your argument that the Democrats can triangulate their way back to political relevancy because _______________. I don't see any connection to the strawman you constructed, either.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:50
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icantfindaname posted:The GOP base was never meaningfully pro-free-trade or anti-Russia after they dropped the Communism and replaced it with alt-right white nationalism icantfindaname posted:That was when a Kenyan born Muslim traitor was doing the negotiating, who probably was a Communist deep down too So you're asserting that the transition from anti-communism to alt-right white nationalism had nothing at all to do with the rise of trump, despite these two events happening concurrently and the change in the GOP electorate matching Trump's positions exactly. I'm not sure you should be throwing around terms like dumbass without a bit of self-reflection.
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Mar 6, 2017 00:30
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icantfindaname posted:Russia moved to white-nationalist ethno-nationalism back in the 90s dude OK, then this statement you just made... icantfindaname posted:That was when a Kenyan born Muslim traitor was doing the negotiating, who probably was a Communist deep down too must be wrong if republicans stopped giving a poo poo about communism in the 90's. You also need to explain why Republicans were lying in all the political polls from 1990 to 2016 where they reported hating Russia and loving free trade. There was a massive change during and after Trump's candidacy, not before.
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Mar 6, 2017 00:38
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icantfindaname posted:No, I don't, because the idea that people have complicated opinions and that their propensity to change them based on new circumstances and the right arguments is actually an important part of their worldview, is obvious to anyone who's not a dumbass If you're admitting that Trump had the right arguments to change their opinions and convince them that circumstances had changed, why are you calling me a dumbass for suggesting exactly that happened? I think it's because maybe the dumbass is you. Condiv posted:he didn't really tell the base to get hosed, just leapt on their opinion changing when russia leaked hillary's dirty laundry He really did tell them to get hosed did you pay attention to the Republican primary at all? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYZKVsjyxg4 JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 00:45
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Are you honestly trying to argue that Trump used empathy, smart arguments and rational discussion to win the GOP primary here? He started the primary campaign by telling the Bush family and all their supporters to go choke on a dick and they all fell in line.
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Mar 6, 2017 00:56
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Condiv posted:i did not watch the republican primary cause i'm not a republican. that being said, i don't see trump telling his base to get hosed in that clip. he deflects from russia as much as he can, and when supporting them or syria it's always couched in "well, what about those guys obama's supporting? who knows what the hell they're up to!" Did you see the end where he was bagging on Bush's failed foreign policy? Here's another debate where he yells at the crowd booing him due to his Russia position and he suggests they're all Jeb's special interest supporters and lobbyists. He also shits on Lindsay Graham for the same reason. http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/02/07/gop-debate-trump-bush-wrong-russia-syria-orig-vstan-mg-02.cbs-news icantfindaname posted:I'm saying that the hostility to Russia was a tenuously held conviction and a holdover from decades prior, and that the seeds of a friendly attitude towards Russia based on their shared far-right ideology and whiteness, were deeply rooted and existed for a long time. Which means Trump actually was pretty smart and tuned in to the Republican base. Which is why he won. The thing that made it OK for them to change their mind was trump telling the establishment to get hosed and winning!
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Mar 6, 2017 01:12
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Condiv posted:bush isn't russia quote:lol he didn't yell at the crowd, and they started clapping as soon as he started deflecting as quick as possible LOL he called the crowd special interests and lobbyists when they booed him on his Russia position. But keep raging against reality dude.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:30
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In the video i just posted he was yelling at the voters in the audience who supported the establishment, dude.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:38
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Condiv posted:some voters in the audience is not "the base" jefferson. if you wanna change your argument to "trump was a jackass to a lot of people including republicans, and republicans still voted for him" i'll agree. No, bush supporters were the base, until Trump told them all to get hosed and won the primary anyway.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:59
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You think it's a good thing for sweatshop laborers to lose their jobs and have repeatedly stated you don't give a poo poo what happens to them as long as US manufacturing benefits.Condiv posted:i think that the fact that his supporters weren't enough to win him the primary indicates his supporters weren't the base They couldn't coalesce around an anti trump candidate and then it was too late. But bush was and is popular among the republican base. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 02:14
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Frijolero posted:A lot of people voted for Trump because they saw Hillary as a warhawk. Looking at the party platform, and the rhetoric of you partisans, you really can't blame those voters. It's like some people are too stupid to learn from their mistakes in the election and don't see any need to change or admit fault. Really, we're quite lucky to have avoided that warmonger hillary. uhuh.
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Mar 6, 2017 07:33
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No crowsbeak has literally said he doesn't give a poo poo about non-american workers and shouldn't have to, so kvetching about the Haitian minimum wage from him is pretty drat rich.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:32
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"Front runner candidate from the dems" did this post fall through a 9 month time warp? The election is over dude. Your constant need to relitigate it is tiresome.
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Mar 6, 2017 17:03
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icantfindaname posted:low wages aren't actually what makes poor countries industrialize, it's government investment in infrastructure and public goods and an active industrial policy. there's a reason china industrialized when it did and bangladesh didn't. the neoliberal washington think tank consensus does not allow either of those things to happen, joe studwell's book on asian economic developmentis basically 100% the story of Malaysia and Thailand listening to World Bank and IMF economists and getting mediocre at best results and Japan and SK and Taiwan completely ignoring them and succeeding. given that fact you actually are advocating snatching bread from the mouths of poor black people in a third world country, both by directly reducing their welfare at home and removing their ability as a sovereign nation to regulate their economic intercourse with the world at large, and justifying it with nonsense. im pretty sure if this were 200 years ago you'd be saying Haitians were better off as plantation slaves working for the french than an independent nation Clinton successfully lobbied the Haitians to pass a smaller minimum wage increase in 2011, and they passed the full increase in 2014. Have we seen any substantial improvement in the Haitian economy since 2014? We don't have any robust economic statistics past 2014. But the incomplete statistics from 2015 show slowing GDP growth, slowing investment, and significantly increased inflation. https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/haiti So the assertion that delaying the full minimum wage increase for 3 years caused Haitians to starve cannot be based on anything but your gut feels.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:07
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icantfindaname posted:those stats you cited have nothing at all to do with hunger or food scarcity, or domestic welfare? sorry you hate third world black people, but your case that starvation is actually good doesn't hold up to facts or logic No, like I said no one has any statistics directly related to hinger, so your assertion is obviously based on nothing more than your strong convictions. The data we have showing increased inflation and decreased GDP growth and investment is wholly consistent with the standard minimum wage models we have--it helps some people and hurts others, and the magnitude of those effects and which effect is larger is dependent on the specifics of the labor market and economy in general. So you have no idea whether the minimum wage hike has helped or hurt Haiti, you just want to whine about the primary, which is really stale at this point.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:20
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Fiction posted:Nonzero Haitian people have died of hunger before then, which would likely have been less had the full reise been implemented because people would have more money for food. I assumed you understood what inflation is, but I'll break it down for you. It means the things people buy, like food, got more expensive. So we can't conclude that the minimum wage hike actually made it easier for Haitians to buy food. It's very likely it made it easier for some (those who got a wage hike) and harder for others (those that didn't). Have we seen any substantial reduction in poverty in Haiti since 2014? Have we seen improvements in food security? If you could point to those outcomes and eliminate confounding explanations I'd be happy to conclude Hillary was bad and wrong in 2011, but you can't, because those statistics don't exist (yet). Fiction posted:It's not "whining about the primary" to correctly point out that the Dem leadership is still composed of politicians who will gently caress over their constituents for a buck because what are they gonna do, vote for Trump??? What the gently caress does that have to do with Haiti?!?
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Mar 6, 2017 18:27
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Please point to the part of the 2016 plaform that the party gave to Bernie to write that you think is relevant to haiti's minimum wage.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:38
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Most of Trump's attacks that slew Hillary wouldn't have worked on Sanders because Sanders doesn't have the appearance of impropriety like she did, and also there aren't decades of character assassination on him Guess what else republicans have spent decades smearing as literally in league with satan? Socialism
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Mar 20, 2017 01:04
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Mr. Belding posted:Socialism currently has a higher approval rating than Trump, Congress, Democrats, and Republicans. Socialism polls 50 points behind Free Enterprise, 25 points behind Capitalism, and 18 points behind Big Business. Socialism and Hillary Clinton have similar approval ratings. So the suggestion that Republicans wouldn't have any negative advertising to run against Bernie is strange. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 01:17
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:The same people who claimed Hillary and all her baggage would win the election are now claiming that there's no way in hell Americans would vote for a socialist Whereas the same people who claimed that Bernie had a chance in the primary are now claiming that Bernie would have won the general.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:25
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:With DWS and Brazille in charge of things it wasn't a very fair fight. But people that thought Bernie could win should have known that at the outset. They didn't. They were wrong, and therefore must be wrong about everything else, forever.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:44
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:What kind of logic is this? Your kind. Tight Booty Shorts posted:The same people who claimed Hillary and all her baggage would win the election are now claiming that there's no way in hell Americans would vote for a socialist
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Mar 20, 2017 02:12
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That logic isn't any better, even if we ignore the factual problems. People who foolishly ignored opinion polling before are now attempting to reference opinion polling!
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Mar 20, 2017 02:29
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Positive is not the same as negative. Bernie is at the forefront of opposing Trump. He also reads opinion polls. That's probably why his opposition to Trump does not reference the word socialism. Were he the general election candidate he would not have the luxury of avoiding attacks on socialism, which would define the Republican attack strategy.
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Mar 20, 2017 02:50
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Remember when Fox news and Republicans called Obama a socialist constantly and it prevented him from a second term? Bernie definitely wouldn't have been able to handle it I think a false accusation of being a socialist is probably not as effective as one that's true. But we've never tried running a democrat who'll defend socialism--not just the welfare state, but changing the ownership of the means of production--so anything's possible.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:15
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Have a giant list of colorado politicians including the democratic governor opposing it then. Considering the bill was opposed by majorities of democratic voters and politicians in CO, perhaps we should change the thread title to Will the democrats change and stop representing their membership?
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Mar 20, 2017 16:12
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MooselanderII posted:Are you or are you not in favor of a single payer system? Depends on the implementation. But more to the point, I think there are more important conclusions to reach from prop 69 failing by a 4-to-1 margin than socialism can only be failed.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:53
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Condiv posted:clinton was hilariously unpopular throughout the race. she started off hated and ended up loathed. Actually, she was at 47/47 the day she announced, was at 48/46 (-2) a month later when Bernie announced, and then she drops to around 56/41 (-14) in the next few months and stays there through the convention and the election. So she started off hated by republicans and she ended up loathed by republicans and Bernouts.
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Mar 20, 2017 22:33
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The large majority of Bernie supporters did not have their brains broken so it's perfectly possible to like them generally while still disliking the ones who post in this thread.
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Mar 20, 2017 22:46
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Kilroy posted:Isn't there some tinpot dictator somewhere or a weapons manufacturer you're trying to get a consulting gig with? Go focus on that. Arent you one of the leftists who think Dems should drop gun control and Qaddafi did nothing wrong?
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Mar 20, 2017 23:11
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Kilroy posted:Well I don't know wtf you're talking about with Qaddafi, but you've got me pegged on gun control! Smart leftists remember: shoot the rich first, then eat them. So has it crossed your mind that dropping gun control would be a massive boon to arms manufacturers?
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Mar 20, 2017 23:18
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Kilroy posted:Considering how weapons sales go up whenever Democrats start thinking about dying on the gun control hill again, no not really. I guess it requires an unbroken brain to understand that a rush of arms sales before an expected ban implies the ban actually stops people from buying arms.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:28
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:that's not what he said bub Lol yes it is.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:39
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Ellison also said all the broke brained people who have more beef with Hillary than Trump were incomprehensible so let's not pretend you actually give a poo poo about his views on how the party should function.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:23
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant? The people who are certain the democrats will betray them by handing her daughter a senate seat. People like this: Tight Booty Shorts posted:How do we ensure she doesn't run again? Condiv posted:serves as a constant reminder of what a poo poo candidate she was Ellison doesn't actually care who you hate more. He's telling you to quit making GBS threads on democrats and focus on the existential threat to the country. But you never actually cared about his vision for the party.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:21
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It's not like you'd listen to him anyway. To wit: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/811943610300198913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Mar 21, 2017 04:23
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:The majority of me thinks he was him trying to appease the corporate bootlickers by saying poo poo like this You wanted desperately for him to run the DNC. And yet now that he's telling you to stop making GBS threads on Clinton and focus on Trump he's been co-opted by the corporatists. How convenient for your victim complex.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:46
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:So considering you're making GBS threads on Democrats, does that mean that Perez doesn't share Ellison's perspective on this?  Post or think whatever you want but don't act incensed that Ellison didn't win while simultaneously ignoring his statements on the strategy democrats should be employing. EugeneJ posted:Democrats making GBS threads on Progressives is the new Christians making GBS threads on Atheists You cretins are by no means a representative sample of progressives and that's why Keith Ellison has been calling you out. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 05:04
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:I didn't act incensed, I was just saying that smearing fellow Democrats by saying they have more beef with Clinton than Trump is wrong. If you expect Ellison supporters to not smear Democrats, shouldn't you lead by example? I mean, if Perez disagrees with Ellison about not making GBS threads on fellow Democrats, then I guess that makes sense. I expect Ellison supporters to listen to ellison or at minimum admit that their support had nothing to do with his ideas. Kilroy posted:It's funny how pretty much every progressive and leftist on this board hates your loving guts, and I've gotten numerous PMs from people agreeing with me after arguing with you in these threads, more than I have over any other single topic on SA ever, and yet it's just this board and you're super tight with "Bernie people" IRL despite being a patronizing fuckhead to every single one of them here. So weird. Wow your crazy poo poo has attracted "numerous" fellow travelers I am undone. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 05:23
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