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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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It's fascinating watching people flip out on JC when he humbly asks for evidence of their claims.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:49
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readingatwork posted:Why are you happy about that? I thought you were a progressive yourself. Well, they didn't split the vote and cause the R to win, so it could have been worse.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:40
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but just barely. Lieberman was terrible before the primary, and even worse afterwards. I can't think of a better example of how worthless a blue dog Dem can be. I still have affection for Barack Obama, even though he disappointed me more than a few times as President, and a lot of the blame for tarnishing his legacy has to come down to Lieberman loving him on the ACA. We just have to primary carefully. 
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Apr 4, 2017 16:54
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Crowsbeak posted:I like you're celebrating a warmongering chicken hawk like Lieberman. But I'm not. You just blatantly deliberately misread things constantly because you are an rear end in a top hat. gently caress Lieberman.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:25
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Crowsbeak posted:So I assume you will denounce any who stand up for such warmongering filth? Um no. I'm not gonna play whatever game you are trying to rope me into because you'll just look for a way to mischaracterize it and attack me.  edit- Frijolero posted:I've thought Hillary was a slimy piece of poo poo since 2008 and I still voted for her in October. They do, and when they do they follow it up by pointing out that, if this is true, what motivation is there to push further left? Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 17:33
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Frijolero posted:The Twenty Sixteen Election Too late. Also, Bloomberg would have won. Who didn't vote? can you show evidence they were more leftists than not?
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Apr 4, 2017 17:38
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Frijolero posted:This is unintelligible. if most Bernie Bros voted for Hildawg, whose votes are we trying to capture by continuing to go left? Are those votes there? can they be captured? FWIW I think the GE loss just an issue of latent misogyny. I think it'll be a lot longer than we hope before we see a woman president. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:01
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Frijolero posted:1) We need votes from young people and working class people, of all races. Sure, does going left get those votes? Does it get enough of those votes to win? Does it get more of those votes than simply running someone who doesn't have 30 years of targeted media hate against them? Can anyone support this with data?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:14
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Frijolero posted:You truly are the slimiest loving person I've ever interacted with. steinrokkan posted:You are as slimy and awful a piece of human garbage as your champion. What about that post did you disagree with? I get that you hate JC but he's not wrong or being a dick in that post.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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steinrokkan posted:They are trying to wash their hands over a campaign of political backstabbing and humiliation they themselves perpetuated, and over which the gloated until their own ambitions imploded. What backstabbing? who backstabbed somebody? Did JC hurt bernie? The inability of poeple to hold multiple thoughts in their head at one time, such as "hilary clinton was a bad candidate" and "russia actively interefered in the election and it helped donald trump", is astounding.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:33
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Frijolero posted:He's blaming Russia for the in-fighting instead of the actual aggressors (Hillary, the DNC, Hillary friendly media). Ah. So this is just about continuing the crusade against HRC. You are as bad as Donald Trump and his team. Edit-"infighting". I thought it was a primary. And the winners aren't the ones who would have felt the need to keep fighting the primary after it ended. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:35
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steinrokkan posted:Democrat leaders, pundits and posters including JC and his ilk spent the most heated part of the primaries constructing and promoting the narrative which they now try to offload on some made up Russian conspirators. It was backstabbing as much as any other form of because it was a deliberate, lie filled smear campaign against a running opponent, in an environment that was supposed to promote strength and unity in the party through competition of platforms, a vision HRC herself formally endorsed. I don't remember what JC was up to during the primary honestly, but you are still fighting it so maybe you have some posts of him smearing bernie with known lies? Cerebral Bore posted:The most bizarre part of the story here is that the Clintonistas, literally right after being proven wrong yet again, are trying to gaslight everybody else to accept their rewriting of history, as if Clinton's primary campaign isn't both in recent memory and exceptionally well documented. Perhaps you could find evidence of the lie instead of merely asserting it is a lie because it was posted by JC.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:39
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steinrokkan posted:If somebody tried to kick you out of a house you co-own, failed I'm not sure how this analogy is supposed to work.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:41
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steinrokkan posted:The concept of Bernie bro came around to question the credibility of progressives as liberals, and evolved through its various iterations as centrists responded to more and more cleavages in the party becoming apparent. It was an obvious effort disenfranchise a part of the party electorate through shaming. Who tried to kick you out of a house? There was a primary, bernie lost. Then most of us moved on. We established that most bernie supporters went to clinton, we havent established who the rest were or why they didn't, though we can guess, or where they were or who they voted for. No one tried to kick anyone out of the party, as far as I know. parallelodad posted:When did this happen? I honestly recall both campaigns being fairly clean. I think a lot of "people on this social media i use" is being blown up into "the hillary/bernie wing of the party..."
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Apr 4, 2017 18:47
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loquacius posted:Try saying "I support Bernie Sanders" in D&D in May 2016 and see what happens. Nevvy Z posted:I think a lot of "people on this social media i use" is being blown up into "the hillary/bernie wing of the party..." Cerebral Bore posted:lol the Clintonistas were yelling about how they didn't need any leftist votes up until november 8th. They didn't. They needed rustbelt votes.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:52
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:If Hill Folk get to blame "Bernie Bros" for the ills of the party, it's only fair to remind people that Hill Folk told Sanders supporters they didn't need their votes, smugly and often. They didn't. Fiction posted:It's a conspiracy to think that the only reason your beloved queen lost is because of Putin's efforts to destabilize the West. He may be doing that, but to think it's the reason for anything that happened this year is completely foolish. That sort of disinformation campaign can only inflame rifts that already exist, and boy howdy was there a big one last year that Hillary handled very poorly! JC has acknowledged Hillary's faults many many times.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:55
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Clearly, as President Clinton has illustrated. Most Bernie voters voted for Hilary. This is settled. The key states she lost weren't because of Sanders supporters. steinrokkan posted:If the moral panic ended with the primaries, if the moral panic hadn't bee whipped up at all, if the centrists hadn't proceeded to just affirm their hegemony in party institutions, if they hadn't acted like they were the victims of some grave injustice, if they had paid at least a lip service to the value of progressives within the party.... instead of the incredible arrogance and crushing of internal opposition in the bud (stopping only precariously shy of actual strongarming of progressives out of the party), maybe there would today be a bit of trust between the two sides. Or maybe you are projecting your feud with a poster you don't like onto our entire party.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:56
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:psssst in an election determined by less than 100K votes, she really needed every possible vote. Really? Like those 3 million votes she got more than donald? I think where the votes are matters a lot more, personally. steinrokkan posted:Again, whether they needed them, and whether they spurned them in a fit of egoistic madness are two entirely different things. Are we talking about how rust belt votes were treated or how you felt you were treated?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:58
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Kilroy posted:What if Bernie Sanders is a secret Russian and he's posting on these dead gay comedy forums under the pseudonym JeffersonClay? What if this whole feud you have with him is stupid as gently caress? steinrokkan posted:Are you saying rust belt states were treated intelligently and with as much gravitas as they deserved by the HRC campaign? No. I'm saying that Bernie voters who didn't go to Clinton didn't matter at all regarding the final outcome. context matters.
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Apr 4, 2017 19:00
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:If Hill Folk get to blame "Bernie Bros" for the ills of the party, it's only fair to remind people that Hill Folk told Sanders supporters they didn't need their votes, smugly and often. frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Oh boy, I'd sure love to see your data here Well, I'd actually put the onus anus  on you to show where Bernie supporters in those states would have made the difference, since you are trying to suggest that she did need the small portion of sanders supporters who didn't go for her. I declared some things "unestablished" but if you have evidence to the contrary, by all means...
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Apr 4, 2017 19:05
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Here's my evidence. Hillary Clinton lost the election by a very statistically small margin and Sanders supporters clearly were at least some of those people. Oh well, I'm sure convinced. 
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Apr 4, 2017 19:10
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Who gives a poo poo if you're convinced? You're clearly a loving idiot to have lost the election and STILL try to claim the moral high ground that you didn't need more voters. I didn't lose the election. I'm not trying to claim a moral highground. I'm not sure why you are mad at me.
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Apr 4, 2017 19:14
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Sorry, the side you're playing Dipshit's Advocate for or whatever. You're claiming she didn't need more votes. She clearly, demonstrably did. That's a real stupid position to take. I didn't say she didn't need more votes. I said that she needed specific votes. More votes in Cali clearly would not have helped her, agreed? 
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Apr 4, 2017 19:17
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I doubt it's as settled as you think. I don't have it handy, but I got it from Bernie supporters in one of these threads. Maybe Frijo has it frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Hmm. If she didn't get the votes she needed to win, that means that MORE of those votes would be required for victory. So what is your point besides idiotic pedantry? That just saying "more votes = win" is stupid, shallow analysis you stupid, shallow Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 19:41
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Um do you think it's more or less likely that no Sanders voters in those states stayed home What action do you take to get them out to vote? How does that action affect the rest of voters? Why does it matter if there aren't enough to swing those states? I'm not angry, you are just dense.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:24
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Turn left, DNC! Turn leffffffffft! People keep saying that, yet not providing evidence it would do any good.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:25
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:You're right, banks have such high approval ratings there's no need to turn left there, just as a start And congress has a 20% approval rating yet somehow they mostly keep getting reelected. Edit- that same source shows organized labor even lower than banks.  Nevvy Z posted:People keep saying that, yet not providing evidence it would do any good. Sorry, to be clear by good I mean win elections for the Democratic party. I'm all for full communism now in the sense of things that would be morally good.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:29
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Kilroy posted:Clearly there were not many more votes to be had for her in Michigan, which is why she won that state handily in the primary. This sure proves everything!
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Apr 4, 2017 20:57
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Kilroy posted:You're the one insisting that emphasizing more the parts of her platform inspired by Sanders' campaign would not have won her the states that matter, ignoring that she suffered narrow losses in exactly those states where Sanders kicked her rear end in the primary. That's actually not what I'm doing at all. And that Sanders beat Clinton in MI and then clinton lost MI doesn't mean that clinton lost MI because sanders supporters didn't vote for her.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:12
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Lol I don't know. I'm not the one making really specious claims without evidence.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:15
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Frijolero posted:hacks like JC who keep dividing progressive independents from the party. This is a very interesting line of thought. What has JC done to progressive independants? Have you considered that anyone who changes their voting patterns because of JC is a worthless loving idiot?
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Apr 5, 2017 15:18
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"Someone called me a "breeder" and I don't want to get gay married, so why should I care?"
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Apr 5, 2017 15:27
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parallelodad posted:If you think expanded Medicare and higher minimum wage disproportionally helps white middle class people I don't know what to tell you. The people who need a higher minimum wage and Medicare aren't middle class. They already have good wages and decent employer provided insurance. I think higher minimum wage disproportionally helps people who have jobs or access to jobs.
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Apr 5, 2017 15:31
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There are plenty of possible criticisms of Sanders' policies and of "Bernie Bros" from an anti-racist perspective, but they are not believable coming from Hillary Clinton, or people who supported Hillary Clinton. "I'm open to hearing criticism, but not from anyone who disagreed."
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Apr 5, 2017 16:14
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Agnosticnixie posted:Hot take but if you're in a position to scoff at doubling the minimum wage, you've probably got some unexamined privilege. Agreed, but I don't think anyone here is doing that. Minimum wage increases are short term fixes. Adjusting for inflation is good but still doesn't fix the underlying issues.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:45
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Yeah. It's a good thing we elected someone exactly as hawkish to stop her dastardly plans not to ruin our country domestically.
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Apr 7, 2017 14:16
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