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Agag posted:Then you need to swing some over to vote a different way. Maybe speaking to them using their own reference points will be more effective? You mean like the dems do every election and get curbstomped? You know which block swung heaviest for Trump in the primary? Christians. They didn't swing for him in the general because Christians overwhelmingly vote R. Mr "Two Corinthians" vs a campaign so Jesus laden I got probated multiple times for pointing it out. Christians are evil, through and through. They represent a clear existential threat to our republic.
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Apr 20, 2017 06:48
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You still have it backwards. It isn't the left that is hostile to religion, it is that region is hostile to the left. Of course, if you point that out people freak out and go #notallchrstians. But so what? In our own left wing bubble the liturgoons participate in things like ex-gay and straight up genocide. But mentioning that those things are bad is intolerant and trolling. See the problem here? It's like arguing with Nazis. You can't argue with someone who doesn't abide by the structure of the system, it just makes you look foolish. The left is very open to religion, we see religious appeals from the left all the loving time. It doesn't work because religion is necessarily reactionary so all it does is muddy the waters and make the left loop foolish while religious folks continue to pull the lever for R every time.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:00
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If religion is a language (it's not and that's dumb) let's meditate on the wisdom of Lu Xun, "We have two choices: cling to our classical language and die or throw it aside and live.". Religion chooses death over life. Humanism embraces life while accepting death.
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Apr 20, 2017 21:47
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Neither of these things are true, thank god. Nah. That's still too defined and limited by death. You are describing post-Christian nihilism.
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Apr 20, 2017 22:17
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Even Owlfancier, a shitbox troll, gets it. Don't define yourself on Christian terms. Part of what makes religion so toxic is that it ensures everything is defined on its terms. On this 4/20 free yourself from mental slavery.
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Apr 21, 2017 00:51
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You are viewing classical philosophy through a Christian lens doe. Your fear of death and radical individualism are alien to classical thought, except maybe Aristotle if you look at him sideways. We're all culturally encumbered, sure. No objections there. But I feel you are making the same kind of mistake that r/atheists do where you basically accept a Christian worldview with a few minor objections such as the nature of God. I guess it boils down to whether you think the tool is broken or if it is wrong. If my screwdriver is broken or (very charitably) has the wrong head, what I need is a different screw driver. However, if what I've got is a nail and not a screw them what I need is a hammer. I could run through an infinite number of screwdrivers and never find one that on a nail. I think you're trying to buy milk at a hardware store. poo poo, Owlfancier is sincere? With opinions like his, I just assumed he was a gimmick.
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Apr 21, 2017 01:23
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I mean . . . Is that a good way to use a screwdriver? Have you ever tried doing that? It breaks the screwdriver and hurts the ever loving poo poo out of your hands. A particularly hardy screwdriver you could probably repurpose. Creating tools from tools is what man does. Best case scenario you've damaged yourself and a nice tool to accomplish something at great effort you could have accomplished at little effort using a different tool. Most likely, you've accomplished nothing and broken your tool. I'm pretty sure Christianity teaches you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear. This is just it's own logic applied upon itself.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:01
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Alienwarehouse posted:Oh, I agree. The thing that pisses me off the most about conservative Christians is that they explicitly ignore the foundational principles of the New Testament. They consciously ignore everything Jesus had to say about poverty, greed, wealth, and envy. In a way, you could make the argument that Jesus was the first socialist. Who gives a poo poo? It's cool if you want to argue who would win in a fight: batman vs superman? Regardless of what would actually happen between these fictional characters, the modern market has spoken and Batman is loving crushing it. Saying seemingly cogent things like "Superman is literally invincible" doesn't matter because nobody gives a poo poo about that.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:05
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Other than Egypt or mystery cults that cribbed from Egypt show me a religion that was death facing. You might want to go pre rabbinical Judaism but "Abraham's bosom" is pretty cold comfort. Death is scary. Especially with things like agriculture where we aren't as mobile as we used to be. An answer to death has memetic appeal. Because of the encumbered self it can be hard to see that so instead follow wildly elaborate afterlives as the cult of Mani spreads. Since then that's been a big deal for religions. Makes sense -- it's proven a good way for a parasitic class and ideology to hang along for the ride. An old zen master points at the moon and asks "What is this?". The disciple answers "The moon.". The zen master says, "No, it is a finger pointing at the moon." You are going too far and not far enough. It's hindering your learning.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:45
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Alienwarehouse posted:Did your Priest father molest you or something? The weak pathological mind can't help but personalize.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:52
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Shbobdb posted:It's OK, part of the pathology of Christianity is that it has to reframe everything within the context of itself.
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Apr 21, 2017 03:43
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Agnosticnixie posted:Did u know my snowflake exegesis is truly leftist and completely immune to historical or cultural forces.
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Apr 21, 2017 04:08
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Agag posted:We're all just waiting for the Marxist eschaton. Unpopularity and disinterest are no reason to descend into the muck and speak to the Christfags like human beings. But enough about serious Christian intellectuals proposing gay concentration camps complete with tattoos!
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Apr 21, 2017 05:00
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Agag posted:Is that in one of Bonhoeffer's letters? It's Buckley.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:07
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Bolocko posted:did u know jesus never mentions internet revenge pornography in the bible at all I love the cowardice of defending religion using postmodernism. It's like, nothing matters. There is no god, no underpinning of reality. Which means that God is Jesus and the world is 4000 years old. It's all just a narrative that deconstructs itself, right? Science is just as real as what I pull out my rear end.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:11
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RandomBlue posted:
FTFY
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Apr 21, 2017 05:48
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The dems already wrap themselves in god and flag. How's that been working out for them? Why would doubling down on an already saturated market pay dividends?
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Apr 22, 2017 02:28
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Agag posted:You compete for those voters, hopefully swing some. There is one "market" here - voters - and you have to win them over. You are talking like this isn't being done. It is being done on a massive scale. That's basically the dems pitch right now and it isn't working.
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Apr 22, 2017 07:07
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There are tons of progressive churches. Sure, their pews are mostly empty and they hemorrhage members. But if you only count by sect while ignoring attendance and growth, there are tons of non-regressive churches.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:27
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[img=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Little_Rock_integration_protest.jpg] Desegregation is communism. Checks out.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:35
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Guys, guys. People can only learn human dignity from Jesus. Slaves: totally OK with their condition until Jesus taught them to respect themselves. Jim Crow? Nobody knew it was bad until Jesus decided it was. Desegregation? Only through the will of god above.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:45
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Agag posted:Sorry if I was being unclear. I was talking about changing people's political positions by speaking to them in religious terms. Not artificially by pretending to be religious when you are not, but by forming and authentic synthesis between Christianity and your political aims (as per the MLK example earlier). How is this different than what is currently being done?
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Apr 23, 2017 02:58
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Agag posted:At the national level liberals are perceived as being hostile to religion and contemptuous of people who identify as religious. Transparent attempts to pander to them are seen through immediately. Support your argument using examples. Be sure to clearly distinguish what is "pandering" and what is "genuine belief". Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 03:15
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That's not an example. So you are saying the dems should give up on gay and reproductive rights? That would be genuine belief?
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Apr 23, 2017 03:24
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Agag posted:I don't think you're being serious. Nothing like that is implied by what I wrote, and I've been pretty clear. You are the one who brought up gay and reproductive rights. How should I have taken that?
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Apr 23, 2017 03:31
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In America? Christianity went hardcore rightwing as a block with the rise of the moral majority, so '76-80 though anti civil rights churches have been a thing since forever and have always held a lot of political sway.
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Apr 23, 2017 03:36
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Agag posted:That the Trump administration is going to stomp all over gays and women, because the left couldn't appeal to enough voters, because it holds so many of those voters in contempt. Hillary is centrist as gently caress and ran an incredibly religious campaign.
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Apr 23, 2017 03:37
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Lol. People are unable to see through right wing religious hucksters (or are they just genuine?) But every centrist and liberal candidate (much less leftists) is just pandering. Funny how that works.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:14
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It wasn't until post Gettysburg that slavery became the moral justification for the war. On the North's side at least. Now, young confederates were marching to war to ensure that god's ordained racial order be maintained.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:34
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Liberation theology seems to blend the two without much difficulty. Proselytizing religions are necessarily syncretic so I do see why other, similar creolizations couldn't be formed. Theoretically it's no stranger than the fusion of Christianity with FYGM capitalism. Practically, I don't see a way for it to take root the way you are describing.
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Apr 23, 2017 08:29
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