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supergayboy posted:Honestly it was all the senpais and such, thought it was terrific otherwise. if it bothers you hearing yuri lowenthal say it, tho, just use jp audio so it sounds more natural
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Mar 9, 2017 23:50
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 01:28 |
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It is here I'll admit I'll be playing with the japanese voices. i'll let you all know if this increases my skill at the game
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Mar 9, 2017 23:55
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Endorph posted:senpai is a word normal japanese person use There are a lot of dubs that default to a Japanese word when there's really no need https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo  But I think Atlus is right to just stick the senpai in there english or no english. I don't think there's a good english equivalent that would flow better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Mar 9, 2017 23:59
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Admittedly, I'd just give up and have the dub refer to them by their name, if I was in somehow in charge of dubbing decisions.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:03
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Captain Oblivious posted:But I think Atlus is right to just stick the senpai in there english or no english. I don't think there's a good english equivalent that would flow better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Mar 10, 2017 02:03
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I can't wait to buy the american version because trying to translate the Japanese version for myself was giving me a literal god drat headache. What I played of it was super fun though.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:15
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there isn't a 1:1 english equivalent but you can just have them call the characters by name senpai isn't such a meaningful word that removing it completely changes the character dynamics. It can have meaning, but its use in most of the persona games is just there because it's how japanese people talk, they don't put any specific emphasis on it or have a character go from calling an upperclassman by their name to calling them senpai when they earn their respect or whatever, like i've seen in some stuff. I guess maybe Kanji? But Kanji just defaults to calling everyone senpai when he realizes they're older, it isn't really made a big deal out of. You wouldn't lose any particular characterization beats by removing it. Honestly, the only reason it seems to be kept is so 80% of the cast has something to call the protagonist, since you can rename them.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:18
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Giving the P5 protagonist a code name works much better there since everyone can just call him Joker.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:19
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the honorifics are part knowing a bit about their audience and also part making it easier to work around the player character being nameable, since you can use the honorific in their name's place sometimes i remember how hard FFX had to work around the fact that titus was renameable
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Mar 10, 2017 02:32
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ImpAtom posted:Giving the P5 protagonist a code name works much better there since everyone can just call him Joker. From what I've seen, this is a big part of that. The tone of this game also has characters not really being as formal with each other, so they often just drop honorifics entirely for interpersonal discussion. Morgana, though, likes adding -dono to Ann's name, which is a weird quirk. (I really hope they don't change that to them saying "milady" because that's way too fedora-tipping for the character.) Then again, they also use "wagahai" because it's a reference to Natsume Soseki's "I am a cat". There's absolutely no good way to translate the different "I" pronouns to English. Neeksy fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 02:59
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Neeksy posted:(I really hope they don't change that to them saying "milady" because that's way too fedora-tipping for the character.) They can't do this because Milady is one of the Personas in the game.
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Mar 10, 2017 03:34
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Neeksy posted:Then again, they also use "wagahai" because it's a reference to Natsume Soseki's "I am a cat". This is a really good book, actually, and people should read it. A lot of translations from Japanese sound really clunky because the lines just lose a lot of subtleties. For example, in Your Name, one scene goes "watashi" -> "watakushi" -> "boku?" -> "ore.." which is a funny joke in Japanese because it goes from neutral formal -> feminine formal -> masculine informal -> masculine casual/rude, which is what you would expect a high school boy to use with his friends. But how are you going to translate that to English? And while senpai is just a normal word in Japanese, continued use in normal conversation keeps the relative position of the speakers in mind, whereas transitioning to a first-name basis in Japanese tells you there's a shift. How would you go about doing this in English? Another example that comes to mind is in FFXV when someone says "I see the sea!" which is a literal translation of the Japanese line, but would be better as "Check it out, it's the ocean!" or something. It's almost as if, when you have a very complex artistic medium like a voiced video game, that it is almost impossible to out-do the original language.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:32
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totalnewbie posted:This is a really good book, actually, and people should read it. I wouldn't go that far. It just goes to show exactly why they aren't called translators, they're called localizers, and their job often involves fairly dramatic rewrites or creating completely different lines that simply have a similar tone. Good localization is in fact hard.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:38
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totalnewbie posted:Another example that comes to mind is in FFXV when someone says "I see the sea!" which is a literal translation of the Japanese line, but would be better as "Check it out, it's the ocean!" or something. Uh, why? It's immediately followed by Noctis saying "I "sea" it too!" so it was a deliberate joke in English
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Mar 10, 2017 05:46
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totalnewbie posted:And while senpai is just a normal word in Japanese, continued use in normal conversation keeps the relative position of the speakers in mind, whereas transitioning to a first-name basis in Japanese tells you there's a shift. How would you go about doing this in English? Have the character go from speaking rather politely and a bit distant, to more familiar and casual to signify the fact that the characters are now closer and whatever. Like it'd be a bit more difficult to show sure and couldn't use an exact translation of the scene, but even in Japanese it's not as if all that changes is the use of the word senpai. The way they talk to each other would also change to show the shift. And that can be shown in the English translation as well.
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Mar 10, 2017 05:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:I wouldn't go that far. It just goes to show exactly why they aren't called translators, they're called localizers, and their job often involves fairly dramatic rewrites or creating completely different lines that simply have a similar tone. I agree. I think Alexander O. Smith's translations (Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy XII, War of the Lions, etc.) add a wholly unique tone to the English scripts, and are easily the original script's equals (if not necessarily outdoing them).
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Mar 10, 2017 05:48
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From another perspective, the loc process can also serve as another editing pass on the writing or content of the original release, as seen in Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Trails of Cold Steel, or just an opportunity to fill in some blanks and add appropriate personality where you can like Trails FC's chest messages or FFXII's bestiary.
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Mar 10, 2017 06:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:I wouldn't go that far. It just goes to show exactly why they aren't called translators, they're called localizers, and their job often involves fairly dramatic rewrites or creating completely different lines that simply have a similar tone. That's a good point. It's probably just that I'm thinking of a lot of terrible old dubs when recently they've gotten a lot better at/about it. I still think it's better in the original, but I doubt that has so much to do with Japanese as it is just true of almost everything. Terper posted:Uh, why? It's immediately followed by Noctis saying "I "sea" it too!" so it was a deliberate joke in English You're right, I forgot that part, but I don't know, it still feels a little clunky because it forces in a pun when there was none before. So not quite as forced, but it still feels a little clunky to me. SyntheticPolygon posted:Have the character go from speaking rather politely and a bit distant, to more familiar and casual to signify the fact that the characters are now closer and whatever. You're right, it's definitely possible. Could just transition from a first name to a nickname, for example. /shrug I don't want to get hung up on that exact word/case, but it's just an example of, I think, why it's so hard to get localizations right, because you have to work in subtleties/ideas that simply don't necessarily exist in the local language/culture.
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Mar 10, 2017 06:04
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i think localization should focus less on getting across every single minute detail of the original work and more about invoking the same ideas and themes, and stirring the same feelings in the audience. not that im saying just make up whatever, most lines should at least get across the same general idea even on a line-by-line basis, but if there's a joke that's hard to translate, just come up with a new one. there's a little bit with the guy who translated the first few metal gear solid games where he says "Basically, when a writer puts something down, it's not as if he's going line-by-line in a scientific matter, right? He's thinking about something higher than that, some thought or feeling he wants to communicate to the audience. The goal of the translator shouldn't be to directly translate the lines, but to reach for that same light.'
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Mar 10, 2017 06:18
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If you want the best examples of why strict translations suck, look for just about any fan translation of any Japan-Only SNES game, ever. Or most anime fansubs. Otherwise, if you want the original experience with the original work, go import the original and learn to read and speak that language yourself. You will literally never be satisfied, much less get a localization that is 100 percent faithful in order to satisfy you. If Japanese and English had more similarities, localizers wouldn't have to make the extensive rewrites just so none of the characters sound blisteringly retarded (more so than they ultimately end up sounding anyway). It's an especially massive pain in the rear end for voiceovers of any Japanese media, since lipflaps aren't necessarily intended for English speakers. In the worst cases, the developer isn't able, or willing, to go back and change things to account for other languages. FFX is pretty much a disaster of a dub from the word go, but when you've literally got to record your dialogue to fit in exact lengths otherwise the game locks up when trying to play that voice file, you're going to struggle just to say your lines much less actually do some real acting. Maintaining faithfulness to the original Japanese writing should NEVER come at the price of the localized writing looking like something out of an 8-year-old's FF.net masterpiece. Whenever you do that, well, you get pretty much all of the US translations of anything Gundam. It's hilarious when your show is utterly stupid, like Wing or G-Gundam. But when you're actually trying to pretend your giant robot/bigtiddy anime girlz are dealing with subject matter that requires some measure of nuance, a strict translation with barely any localization will fail at getting the point across every single time.
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Mar 10, 2017 06:35
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Endorph posted:i think localization should focus less on getting across every single minute detail of the original work and more about invoking the same ideas and themes, and stirring the same feelings in the audience. This is more or less what I think too, and why I think it's very odd lots of people get really annoyed when a translation isn't incredibly literal, especially when their reasoning is that they wouldn't be seeing the author's original intent otherwise. I'm pretty sure the intent of a line with a joke in it is usually to make the player laugh, so translating said joke literally so that it makes no sense in English is only making the translation less like the original rather than more accurate.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:40
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I think it's important to keep in mind that Persona isn't just leaving in stuff like honorifics for the sake of slavish accuracy, but because the game is actually set in Japan and is about Japanese characters dealing with Japanese social problems. Having characters in games that take place in fantasy worlds or medieval Europe analogues say "senpai" in English is weird and silly. In Persona, it's in the context of Japanese people having a conversation. They should make an American player feel the dialogue is more authentic, rather than "shameful" or whatever.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:49
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Translation, spoilers, and canon: the three kleshas from which all suffering originates.
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Mar 10, 2017 12:55
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How expensive are the magical costumes
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Mar 10, 2017 13:18
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Most professional translations are attempts to find a happy medium among accurately conveying the language, conveying the actual experience of the native speakers playing the game, and creating a game that's worthwhile for the speakers of the new language to play. Nothing is going to perfectly accomplish all three. What I like about the honorifics is that they efficiently signal that there's something about the relationships between the characters that is specific to Japan, that it might not make perfect sense, and we should just roll with it and move on. They would have been useful in translations where adult characters randomly called each other "Big Brother" (I remember it happening in Suikoden 2 with a character you had literally just met) or got angry at being called some strange but not offensive variation of their name (like just about every Atelier game). But hey, YMMV. If Atlus were to start taking a less literal approach, I wouldn't particularly object as long as it was done with care.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:24
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is this game gonna b good & cool for someone that nevr played any other persona game before? is there an easy way to play older persona games without buying a ps3???
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Mar 10, 2017 13:25
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There are no Persona games available on the PS3 except like, the PS1 version of 2. However, all of them are available on the Vita or PSTV. If you like RPGs you'll probably like this one.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:27
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Neeksy posted:
The English Morgana trailer has them calling Ann "Lady". Or maybe it was the English Ann trailer...
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Mar 10, 2017 13:39
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TEENAGE WITCH posted:is this game gonna b good & cool for someone that nevr played any other persona game before? is there an easy way to play older persona games without buying a ps3??? Also worth noting, if you didn't already know, there are no real story connections between the games (excepting the first and second halves of 2), so you won't be missing important story details.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:52
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Persona games are just high school demon using sentai that selects a group of teenagers with attitude to save the world.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:27
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wizard on a water slide posted:I think it's important to keep in mind that Persona isn't just leaving in stuff like honorifics for the sake of slavish accuracy, but because the game is actually set in Japan and is about Japanese characters dealing with Japanese social problems. I get the logic of it, but the characters are already talking English. I've already accepted that this isn't the "real" language they are speaking, but I can buy the illusion and it's not like it breaks immersion. By throwing in random Japanese words that immersion and authenticity is broken for me.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:12
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ImpAtom posted:You can pet the cat and also go to the movies with the cat. This is very good. I like this a lot.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:20
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Also: Business in the front:  Party in the back. 
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Mar 10, 2017 17:23
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I'm going to buy every costume dlc
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Mar 10, 2017 17:40
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I just want the P3 costume DLC, was that ever released outside of the original Japanese collectors edition for download?
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Mar 10, 2017 17:44
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Yes
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Mar 10, 2017 18:05
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Super No Vacancy posted:I'm going to buy every costume dlc
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Mar 10, 2017 18:17
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I'm gonna put my collector's edition cat plush right next to my collector's edition raiho plush
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Mar 10, 2017 18:26
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im wondering how big the game is compared to P4G
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Mar 10, 2017 18:38
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 01:28 |
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Bigger
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Mar 10, 2017 18:47
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