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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I like what you're trying to do here. ?
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Mar 15, 2017 18:28
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It's really not an exaggeration to say that Kong is depicted as basically not a God-like figure, but as a god. Yes, he gets very wounded, he feels pain, but he also shows remarkable instrumentality, which means that this Kong (far from the naive giant toying with the ladies garments) is unconquerable and omnipotent. Lightning powers in the sequel are totally not out of the question, nor are mind-control themes. The point is that Monarch is already setting up a plan to use Kong to fight Godzilla, but Godzilla and Skull Island leave little evidence that these characters would have any reason to encounter or want to fight one another. In other words, Monarch is gonna do something really stupid.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:46
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Godzilla is gonna come to Skull Island to take care of some abomination created by Monarch and we will have him face off against Kong before they team up to fight super monster. 2022 Pacific Rim: Monsters Unleashed ft Godzilla and Kong being sent to the future by aliens...possibly time traveling Capt Kirk to save humanity from Whale Aliens.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:54
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Nothing bad, I like that you're trying to link Kong to Master of the Flying Guillotine! If he had popped that fuckin' lizzo's head off I would have wilded out right there in the theater.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:00
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K. Waste posted:It's really not an exaggeration to say that Kong is depicted as basically not a God-like figure, but as a god. Yes, he gets very wounded, he feels pain, but he also shows remarkable instrumentality, which means that this Kong (far from the naive giant toying with the ladies garments) is unconquerable and omnipotent. Lightning powers in the sequel are totally not out of the question, nor are mind-control themes. The point is that Monarch is already setting up a plan to use Kong to fight Godzilla, but Godzilla and Skull Island leave little evidence that these characters would have any reason to encounter or want to fight one another. In other words, Monarch is gonna do something really stupid. The tragedy of the original Kong v Godzilla story is the fact that the protagonists tried to destroy each other instead of teaming up to take down their mutual oppressor: humanity. Hopefully the reboot has a happier ending.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:08
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Mantis42 posted:The tragedy of the original Kong v Godzilla story is the fact that the protagonists tried to destroy each other instead of teaming up to take down their mutual oppressor: humanity. Hopefully the reboot has a happier ending. It's even more tragic than that: Kong immediately backed down from fighting Godzilla the first time after realizing the dude had nuclear fire breath, and then just kind of stomped around cranky 'cause he wanted to go back home. So, effectively, Kong is kidnapped twice, and each time humanity does the thing which is in his worst interests. That's exactly the sort of career move Monarch would make: Hey, what if we could control the monsters' minds/Drug them and "let them fight"?
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Mar 15, 2017 19:19
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Mothra is going to team up with Kong and fight Godzilla then Don Frye is going to show up piloting Mecha Godzilla and it's going to be loving awesome.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:23
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That's get better PPV ratings than a live execution like Running Man.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:23
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K. Waste posted:It's even more tragic than that: Kong immediately backed down from fighting Godzilla the first time after realizing the dude had nuclear fire breath, and then just kind of stomped around cranky 'cause he wanted to go back home. So, effectively, Kong is kidnapped twice, and each time humanity does the thing which is in his worst interests. That's exactly the sort of career move Monarch would make: Hey, what if we could control the monsters' minds/Drug them and "let them fight"? didn't Kong go and hide behind a rock after getting hit with the atomic breath? and then jumped Godzilla from behind because Godzilla has a tiny brain.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:24
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K. Waste posted:Here's one thing that stood out: Kong eating a squid in homage to the scene in Oldboy. Tsuburaya always wanted a giant octopus.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:53
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Kong also fought a giant octopus in the Toho King Kong vs. Godzilla.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:55
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Yeah I took that as a KKvG homage/foreshadowing. Though it's also an important scene in that it establishes that Kong isn't necessarily out to kill these people, he's got bigger things to do.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:57
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SleepCousinDeath posted:didn't Kong go and hide behind a rock after getting hit with the atomic breath? and then jumped Godzilla from behind because Godzilla has a tiny brain. That's in the fight at the end after the 'good humans' drug him and fly him back to fight Godzilla. The first time they encounter each other, Godzilla uses his atomic breath, and Kong is like, "Well, gently caress that poo poo," and walks the other way.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:33
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Concept art looking good
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Mar 15, 2017 20:37
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K. Waste posted:Godzilla and Skull Island leave little evidence that these characters would have any reason to encounter or want to fight one another. In other words, Monarch is gonna do something really stupid. I don't know; we've already seen a pretty big gulf between the two. Kong is isolationist/territorial while Godzilla's international or even global. Kong fights for family, Godzilla is indifferent. Kong is particular, Godzilla universal. Kong is good/godly while Godzilla is demonic - 'beyond good and evil'. Kong's violence is born of desire for balance, Godzilla's violence is born of pure drive, etc. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Nothing bad, I like that you're trying to link Kong to Master of the Flying Guillotine! If he had popped that fuckin' lizzo's head off I would have wilded out right there in the theater. Oh I got you; the 'trying' part threw me off. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 20:40
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K. Waste posted:The first time they encounter each other, Godzilla uses his atomic breath, and Kong is like, "Well, gently caress that poo poo," and walks the other way. Kong's body language during that first fight with Godzilla was great. The actor was completely encased in a giant rubber monkey suit with a static mask but still managed to perfectly mime the emotional reactions of "What the gently caress?", "No really, what the gently caress??" "Am I loving on fire?? God drat!" and "Welp, looks like I hosed up, time to beat feet."
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Mar 15, 2017 20:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don't know; we've already seen a pretty big gulf between the two. Kong is isolationist/territorial while Godzilla's international or even global. Kong fights for family, Godzilla is indifferent. Kong is particular, Godzilla universal. Kong is good/godly while Godzilla is demonic - 'beyond good and evil'. Kong's violence is born of desire for balance, Godzilla's violence is born of pure drive, etc. You two are really on autopilot with this one.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Oh I got you; the 'trying' part threw me off. There's definitely a visual similarity even if the propeller never functionally decapitates anyone, and I like that you caught it. I sure didn't.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don't know; we've already seen a pretty big gulf between the two. Kong is isolationist/territorial while Godzilla's international or even global. Kong fights for family, Godzilla is indifferent. Kong is particular, Godzilla universal. Kong is good/godly while Godzilla is demonic - 'beyond good and evil'. Kong's violence is born of desire for balance, Godzilla's violence is born of pure drive, etc. I don't know if Godzillas violence is drive so much as he's referred to as having to bring balance and order in his own move so I'd put Kong as that given he's got more primal instincts vs Godzillas supposedly coming from some kind of mystic supernatural balancing harmony earth balance thing as an equalizer
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Mar 15, 2017 20:55
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Oh here we go. Kongs instincts and nature reflect those of a good primal humanity as a protector and guide for those who are in his charge while Godzilla is a force of nature beyond good and evil and human concepts. It's man vs universe.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:00
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The 1962 Toho movie even made sure that the audience were aware of the difference in their natures by pausing to announce it via a radio report just before their initial fight:
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Mar 15, 2017 21:01
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K. Waste posted:That's in the fight at the end after the 'good humans' drug him and fly him back to fight Godzilla. The first time they encounter each other, Godzilla uses his atomic breath, and Kong is like, "Well, gently caress that poo poo," and walks the other way. Ah, right. And then he goes and takes Fumiko on a date so he can feel better about himself before passing out drunk. Snowglobe of Doom posted:The 1962 Toho movie even made sure that the audience were aware of the difference in their natures by pausing to announce it via a radio report just before their initial fight: and yet electricity makes Kong more powerful.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:02
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Of course, Godzilla is eminently more fuckable - we'd rather bone the abyss than the knowable.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:26
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SleepCousinDeath posted:and yet electricity makes Kong more powerful. Not only that, the '62 Kong can absorb lightning and discharge it through his hands for a special Taser Fist attack. 
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Mar 15, 2017 22:04
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Gatts posted:I don't know if Godzillas violence is drive so much as he's referred to as having to bring balance and order in his own move so I'd put Kong as that given he's got more primal instincts vs Godzillas supposedly coming from some kind of mystic supernatural balancing harmony earth balance thing as an equalizer A semi-subtle point in Godzilla 2014 is that Serizawa is totally wrong. Godzilla stands for a more radical imbalance.
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Mar 16, 2017 01:52
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Just got out of the theater,I really liked it. I thought it was a cool monster romp,and a fun war movie. I know,just liking the film because I enjoyed it makes me an uncultured plebeian  but I overall liked it better than Godzilla '14.
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Mar 16, 2017 02:47
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SomeJazzyRat posted:All in all, it's a film that aims to be fun and pretty. And it's worst all you can say is that it's a dumb, fun film, which is hardly a great cinematic film. But the best about it you can say is that it only aspires to be dumb fun, not completely unlike Bay or so (but at least it's not morally questionable). So it's a double edged sword of a film, but it's one that works for me as someone who wanted to watch a giant ape punch a thing, and got a decent wilderness survival horror to go with it. I kind of have to disagree with you about the morally questionable bit at least. King Kong and Heart of Darkness are both pretty racist stories, and this Kong derives pretty heavily from both. They attempted to temper this with a bunch of noble savage elements, but that really is just the opposite side of the same coin. I think the John C. Reilly character does a good job of keeping the movie from teetering over the edge, but it is a pretty fine line.
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Mar 16, 2017 03:30
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Simplex posted:I kind of have to disagree with you about the morally questionable bit at least. King Kong and Heart of Darkness are both pretty racist stories, and this Kong derives pretty heavily from both. They attempted to temper this with a bunch of noble savage elements, but that really is just the opposite side of the same coin. The thing is the Skull Islanders are never depicted as "noble," in the sense that "noble savage" actually refers more specifically to a trope of European colonial culture which framed the valiant struggles of indigenous characters who were simultaneously heavily coded as "ancestors" of the colonial culture itself. The whole point of something like The Last of the Mohicans is that this mythic nobility can only be understood as consigned to a predetermined death. But the joke of Skull Island is that - without having to kill a single person - not a single of the natives has died, despite their unsentimental passivity. In fact, Reilly refers directly to the notion that the Islanders are 'ageless,' invoking the fountain of youth. In light of this, the Islanders are actually depicted, just like the cookie-cutter colonial protagonists, without sentiment. All we know is that at some point Gunpei dies, and when we meet Reilly again he's been 'replaced' by a whole tribe of indigenous Southeast Asians. This is ghost story imagery, presented in the context of a cataclysmic farce: Skull Island is like Brigadoon, where all of these tourist characters walk in expecting a 'natural' struggle and discover instead an entire tribe of people who are explicitly not struggling at all, self-disciplined to 'de-attach' themselves.
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Mar 16, 2017 04:12
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K. Waste posted:The thing is the Skull Islanders are never depicted as "noble," in the sense that "noble savage" actually refers more specifically to a trope of European colonial culture which framed the valiant struggles of indigenous characters who were simultaneously heavily coded as "ancestors" of the colonial culture itself. The whole point of something like The Last of the Mohicans is that this mythic nobility can only be understood as consigned to a predetermined death. This is where I disagree with you, because I think this is depicted in the movie. The modern, civilized world in the movie (Washington, Saigon, Bangkok) is loud, chaotic, and tense place where danger is seemingly in the air. In contrast the Skull Islanders live in the middle of the most dangerous place on Earth, but their world is quiet, they've learned to communicate without speaking, it's calm and peaceful, and most importantly it's safe. There's no crime or politics or feuding among themselves which are all trappings of the modern world. That's not to mention Kong himself, who's just an all-around decent guy, once you get to know him and stop dropping bombs on his home. He's able to find peace quickly and be friendly with the expedition in sharp contrast with characters like Packard and Randa, who can't ever let the fighting stop. I don't necessarily think of the movie as racist, but I wouldn't really disagree with someone who felt that way, because I can see their point. For me the movie is saved by the Marlow character, who I think is a pretty clever character. To borrow the them from Heart of Darkness, all of the other principal characters have gone down the river in some form or another, yet they all treat him like he's the one who's insane. However, Marlow has been living on the island for decades and is the only who is actually sane. He's grateful of the islanders and has a good relationship with them, but he's also aware that he isn't an islander. He is a guy who misses watching the Cubs and eating hot dogs, and he wants to go home to that, but everyone else treats him with incredulity.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:36
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I went to see this last weekend and the power went out in the theater so I only saw about half of it. I'm not gonna go back and finish it because it was godawful. They did the "there's no way I'm getting on the helicopter" bit. The giant spider stepping through that dude's face was rad though.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:50
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Stan Taylor posted:I went to see this last weekend and the power went out in the theater so I only saw about half of it. I'm not gonna go back and finish it because it was godawful. They did the "there's no way I'm getting on the helicopter" bit. The giant spider stepping through that dude's face was rad though. I've seen my fair share of truly god awful movies and I definitely wouldn't describe KONG as being one.
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Mar 16, 2017 19:40
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Just thought of something re; post credit scene. So now the scientists burst in with all this information about these other monsters that are out there. So what was the point in the stuff about Monarch getting shut down at the start? They'd clearly had that information the whole time.
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Mar 16, 2017 21:02
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DrVenkman posted:So now the scientists burst in with all this information about these other monsters that are out there. So what was the point in the stuff about Monarch getting shut down at the start? They'd clearly had that information the whole time. They had a bunch of drawings. Finding Kong is how they proved that the drawings should be taken seriously as possibly corresponding to real creatures.
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Mar 16, 2017 21:11
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DrVenkman posted:Just thought of something re; post credit scene. I don't think the Senator, or anyone, would be swayed by some cave drawings. Seems like those other monsters are dormant or hidden anyway. The mission to Skull Island was for proof of one that was walking the Earth at that moment.
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Mar 16, 2017 21:12
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Both Skull Island and Godzilla 14, as well as the majority of the late sixties/seventies showa Godzilla pictures and some of Heisei and Millenium series are about submission to a higher power. Godzilla 2014 makes this explicit in the sense that the entire Military might fails in almost every thing it does (with Brody as the exception) and only upon stepping back and letting God do his work is true salvation found. Godzilla 14 is about the impotence of the military whereas Skull Island is more about the failure of the military to perform any function other than exacerbate death and destruction and ensure its own. Don't know how this is going to figure into Godzilla vs Kong. The original King Kong vs Godzilla is about how unregulated capitalism creates disaster with its greedy business antagonists (Mothra vs, Godzilla is a far better exploration of this concept though), but I'm not sure this new version can repeat that trick, 62 Kong is a capable goof and a pawn, pleasant in his fallibility, whereas as Skull Island is god-like and textually cool, so it'll be interesting how they cast the divisions between this new Kong and Godzilla. Either way they should probably do the bit with the tree again, as it's awesome.
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Mar 16, 2017 21:23
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Sir Kodiak posted:They had a bunch of drawings. Finding Kong is how they proved that the drawings should be taken seriously as possibly corresponding to real creatures. They had numerous things, including footage/pictures of the atomic bomb dropped in GODZILLA. Which was done by the government to kill something they knew was real.
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Mar 16, 2017 21:34
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Was Godzilla spotted after the nuke? They probably thought they got him and called it good.
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Mar 16, 2017 23:33
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Was Godzilla spotted after the nuke? They probably thought they got him and called it good. According to GODZILLA they released the nuke to try and kill Godzilla (Unless I imagined that), and that same thing is literally the first image they get shown when they say that there's more of them. So if the Government tried killing Godzilla way back when, why even doubt Monarch's claims to begin with? Anyway, I liked the movie aside from some really lazy writing. The first 20 or so minutes is chock full of really bad exposition in which characters state their name, occupation, wants and needs right up front.
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Mar 16, 2017 23:41
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Believing in the existence of a radioactive mutant lizard is a far cry from believing in the whole "monsters once ruled the world, and will rule it again", which is what MONARCH believes.
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Mar 16, 2017 23:48
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Monarch as Gozer worshippers.
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Mar 17, 2017 00:12
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