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The other Abrahamic religions, Christianity and Islam have gotten their own megathreads so I thought, hey, let's go back to the source. First let's get this out of the way though: Do not talk about the Israel and Palestine conflict hereLook, I get it, it's a touchy subject, and Jews are irrevocably intertwined with Israel, whether they like it or not. Some support the government, some support the right to exist but don't like how it's handled, and some couldn't care less what happens to Israel. Don't assume Jews inherently love Israel for all its fault, and there's tons of threads that discuss this topic. While discussion of Israel is inevitable, let's not derail this thread for 15 pages about it mmkay? So what is Judaism? Judaism is the religion of ancient Israel and Judah. Earliest records record it around 9th century BCE, though naturally it probably existed long before that. Judaism is, at its core, the history of the Jewish people from the first man, to the Israelite's exile into Egypt, to slaves under the Pharaoh, until finally returning home when Moses liberated them. In short the Old Testament from Christian tradition, although Christianity stapled a few books onto the ending to make it more relevant. Today, Judaism remains a fringe religion, about .2% of the world population, with the vast majority living in either the United States or Israel. Despite that, Jewish people have made a significant impact on the world in arts, sciences and literature. Who is a Jew? You've probably heard someone say before "I'm a quarter Jewish" and wondered how can someone be a quarter of a religion? Well Jews are a unique hybrid of culture, ethnicity and religion that predates modern classifications so a few different people count as jews: Born to a Jewish mother- Judaism is matrilineal. The exact reason has never been fully substantiated but the dominating thought is that you almost always know who the mother is, but can't always be sure who the father of a child is. So if someone's mom's mom was Jewish, they are in fact a quarter Jewish (though recognized as a "full" Jew by all Jewish sects). Even converts to other religions do not lose their Jewish status in the eyes of most Jewish sects. Any grandparent was Jewish- This is a specific edge case worth describing because according to Israel's law of return, which guarantees citizenship to all Jews who come to Israel, anyone with a Jewish grandparent is considered Jewish, even if that lineage is patrilineal. This is used specifically because it was the criteria used by the Nazis to determine who to exterminate during the holocaust. Converts- Naturally, converts to Judaism are Jewish. In Rabbinical teachings a convert (Sometimes called "Jew by choice" is considered just as Jewish as some born into it (Sometimes called "Jew by birth" or "Jew by chance") and it is improper to remind them of their heritage before becoming Jewish. The rules for conversion are based off ancient rules for permitting outsiders into Israel, and generally involves a year of study followed by circumcision (if male) and then an immersion in the mikvah (Which is a precursor to the Christian baptism, and probably existed in some other form even before that). What is the Torah? Tanakh? Midrash? This is where things get complex. The original book, that big rear end scroll you usually see, is the Torah. It consists of the 5 original books of what some call the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. As previously mentioned this book goes from the origin of the universe according to Jewish tradition, to the creation of the land of Israel, to exile in Egypt, to the return and establishment of the land of Israel and Judah. After this comes the Nevi'im, generally not read during the services but can be used in sermons or what have you, is the story of the re-established Israel from the Prophet Joshua, up until Babylonian captivity, where Babylon vassalized Israel. Finally, the Ketuvim comes after which a series of shorter stories, song and poetry. The Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim combined are called the Tanakh. Once the stories are over, here comes the fun stuff, rabbinical interpretation! The Midrash is a collection of books which contains interpretations of the Tanakh, although dating them is difficult most of them run from 10 BCE up until 1200 CE. Many of them aren't even in Hebrew, but in Aramaic. To most strains of Judaism, the Midrash is absolutely just as important to practicing Judaism as the Torah itself. What are the different sects of Judaism? I'm going to divide these into 2 different varities: Rabbinical Judaism This is the majority of Jews, Rabbinical Judaism is the idea that the Tanakh alone is not enough to properly practice Judaism, but that the interpretations of the Midrash are necessary as well. Namely because many modern conveniences do not exist in the Bible, and many concepts in the Bible would only make sense to ancient Israelites, and not to modern day people: Orthodox- The original. Up until the 19th century Orthodox was more or less the only Judaism, before offshoots began to occur. Generally speaking, Orthodox Jews accept the Torah and Midrash up until the 1200s, and that's it. They follow God's law as they fell it was written and believe that the Tanakh and Midrash are from God's will and cannot be changed. There are some exceptions such as the Modern orthodox movement which tries to make some concessions, like allowing same-sex marriage. The ultra-Orthodox Hassidic Jews are considered part of this movement. Reform-Reform Judaism is the most common form of Judaism in the US, also called Liberal or Progressive Judaism in other parts of the world. Reform Judaism was formed in the 19th century in Germany, as a result of the Enlightenment, Jews were more permitted to participate in mainstream Christian society. However, some felt that the Orthodox interpretation of laws held back their ability to meaningfully participate, so reform Judaism was born. In short, Reform Judaism accepts the previous tenants of Orthodox Judaism, but considers it each individual Jew's decision what laws they will and will not follow. Reform Judaism focuses on the moral law of the Torah and is one of the more progressive movements, being the first sect of Judaism to accept Same-sex marriage and female Rabbis. Conservative Judaism- Conservative Judaism spawned in the US in response to Reform Judaism, feeling that the idea of moving forward from the Orthodox movement was necessary, but that reform had taken things too far. Conservative attempts to swing the pendulum back the other way by maintaining the original liturgy of the Orthodox movement, and being more selective about which laws can be ignored in a modern context. Conservative is generally a few years behind reform and their exact beliefs are a bit murky sometimes, they do allow female Rabbis, but whether same-sex marriage is permitted depends on the congregation. There are many, many minor offshots of rabbinical Judaism as well such as reconstructionist, but these are the "big 3". Non-Rabbinical Judaism These groups are small edge cases but somewhat fascinating in their own right. Karaite Judaism- Mostly limited to Israel, Karaite's do not agree with the Midrash and accept the Tanakh as-is, saying as God's will it cannot be changed. In essence they're Judaism's version of Christian fundamentalists. Samaritans- Not really Jews per se but an ethnic group that has the same Torah as the Jews. They do not accept Rabbinical law as they consider themselves their own people. They do not accept converts and number less than a thousand, most in Israel. Beta Israel- an interesting offshoot of Ethiopian Jews who formed their own culture distinct from much of the rest of Judaism. Israel considers them true Jews and will grant them citizenship. Enjoy the thread! I hope this was informative and can foster some discussion on Judaism but cultural and religious. As stated above, let's keep I/P discussion to a minimum because it doesn't end well and because it's still a topic worth discussion, there are threads in D&D for it. So please, go there if you have some insightful thought! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814 If people bring up interesting topics of discussion I'll add them to the op. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 01:29
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It definitely happens, though painkillers are naturally involved. Alternatively, Reform Judaism does not require circumcision. Services are going to vary depending on the sect. In Orthodox services, men and women are seperated and instruments are actually not allowed, generally, because they feel that until the third temple comes back they shouldn't celebrate in services. Services are all in hebrew, and are very long the but the jist is there's Torah readings and an Amidah, which is basically a long prayer asking for forgiveness and to keep them on the straight and narrow. Conservative is generally the same but will make some concessions for instruments and singing, and it's usually not gender segregated. Reform is generally whatever the congregation agrees upon, and will use a lot of english, but it's hard to make sweeping generalizations because theyre often very different.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:03
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NikkolasKing posted:What is your opinion on t he Messianic aka Jews for Jesus movement? I recently researched it a bit and found it intriguing. It's not as monolithic or minor as I thought and is full of a huge assortment of disconnected sects that don't agree on a lot of things. But what I guess I'm asking is, do you brush them off as bad Christians and bad Jews? Some Jewish people seem very hostile to them. quote:I notice you call him "God." Why do some Jews I read type it as G-d? I know it is forbidden to say His Name but God isn't his name, right? as for His Name that's complicated, the Bible has dozens of names for Him based on different aspects of Him. The most common you'll hear is Adonai or Hashem. You sometimes hear YHWH but few Jews are actually going to use that. YHWH was a name meant to only be used by the high priests, in private, on Yom Kippur. We have no idea what the vowels even are because ancient Hebrew writing doesn't HAVE vowels, people just "knew" what the vowels were. Adonai is the more common name but some Orthodox still think it's disrespectful to use it outside of prayer so they'll use Hashem which literally just means "His Name" quote:What would you suggest to someone interested in converting? Raised Christian here but never felt satisfied with some of its doctrines, like Hell. I hear this is a somewhat touchy subject for Jewish scholars/theologians but you guys definitely don't have Devil who is out there trying to make us suffer for all eternity. Conservative has always sounded the most appealing to me as it combines more modern societal values with a spiritual and rule-bound life. I'm a conservative Jew and conservative owns. It gets a lot of flack for being a "middle ground" but I think preserving the ancient practices is super important, while still modernizing the faith at the same time. It's usually a few years behind reform in social advancement (e.g. women rabbis and gay clergy) and I wish it wasn't but you take what you can get. As for converting the best answer is just go to a service. Even though temples have memberships, you're allowed to just show up and no one will stop you. Afterwards talk to the Rabbi and they can help you out. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 08:58
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The JPS bible is just fine, and some synagogues will have transliterations present because they understand not everyone knows hebrew. However the Bible will only help you during Torah readings, most of the liturgy isn't in the bible. Edit: The best time to go is Friday night. Shabbat is Friday from sunset until saturday at sunset. The Friday service to greet Shabbat is very short, about an hour. The saturday morning service is...intense if you're not used to it. It's a good 3-4 hours. From what I know of Christianity, Jews are a little more permissive of ducking in and out of services because its a long time to sit there straight through. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 09:29
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Well, the reason is to mark a man as someone who is a member of the covenant of Israel. Why they didn't pick something everyone would be able to see is an age old question.
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Mar 13, 2017 12:54
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feedmegin posted:Sure, but socially speaking requiring men to do something very painful to their dick to join said covenant seems a pretty good way of keeping your religious group/culture exclusive and preventing it being assimilated by others surrounding it. There actually is a bible story where a warlord rapes a Jewish woman but is so captivated by her beauty he demands a cultural exchange with the Israelites by trading their women. The girls father agrees because they lack the military to oppose him. However he requests the men circumcised themselves like the Israelites so their men would be the "same". Warlord is still so captivated by the girls beauty he actually agrees to this proposal. Girls brothers wait 3 days and while the men are all in so much pain they can't even stand they destroy their city with a small token force. The Torah is awesome is what I'm saying.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:23
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seems super hot and she's kinda into me. Maybe we should get married?
Wait he wants me to do WHAT before we get married? gently caress this I'm outta here
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Again it's another "Depends on the movement" dealie. Orthodox Jews generally believe the Torah to be accurate, though I'm sure it varies a lot in the community. Reform and Conservative do not accept the Bible as "this literally happened" and focus more on what can be learned from those stories, instead of the literal nature of the events. Orthodox Rabbis have a lot of pull in Israel's legal system so the Orthodox view tends to dominate.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:36
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MJP posted:Born and raised Reform, now nonpracticing and an atheist. Not to hijack OP's thread, just here to answer those. For what it's worth I welcome all Jews to answer questions here, I'm only one side. As a practicing conservative Jew I probably give a more idealized picture than others and I'd love to give a balanced portrayal to people asking questions.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:33
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Blurred posted:What's the go with heaven? Short answer: No clue. Longer Answer: Mixed responses. General belief is that there is no Hell and probably a paradise but even that's not consistent. Throughout history there has been a concept of Sheol, which is akin to the Jewish Hell. However this is pretty obviously a greek influence of the underworld so it doesn't have as much standing in modern times as it did before. Basically, Judaism is a much older religion and as such focuses a whole lot less on the afterlife and more on the material. What can we do or say to make G-d not mad at us so he doesn't give us diseases or ruin our crops? Most Jewish liturgy focuses on those sorts of things rather than the afterlife.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:11
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For those that do practice kosher laws, separate cookware for meat and dairy is pretty standard.
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Mar 20, 2017 03:11
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Grandmother of Five posted:Cool thread I live in New England, so I feel like Jews are generally pretty accepted here. The only time I can say I've gotten any poo poo is teenagers who haven't matured enough to know that anti semitism is real and hurts people. quote:What kind of perceptions do you personally have of Christians and Muslims, and what kind of general perception or stereotypes of Christians and Muslims do you feel like might exists within Judaism? Like, is there more of a kinship in terms of the shared framework that exists, or does the difference out-weight the shared reference and makes for more antagonism? I don't mean on a political-scale, but rather, like, do you feel as if you might have more in common with a Christian, Muslim or an atheist, or doesn't it matter? My view of anyone not my religion (or an atheist) is we can't really know the truth. We all have to just sort of practice in the way we think is best for us. I can't say Judaism is the correct path and I'd never advocate anyone to follow me, because the covenant of Israel only covers those born into it, or those who willingly convert, nobodies going to Hell because they're not Jewish, it just doesn't work that way. quote:Whether you practice Judaism, or not, is there any part of scripture that you have feel a particular strong connection to? If so, please share if possible. I actually have to say I still really love the Passover story, even if it has a lot of stuff you have to work through, namely A. It probably didn't actually happen, and B.Adonai comes off as a bit of a dick by hardening Pharaoh's heart and killing a bunch of Egyptians who had no real part in this. But it's powerful because Moses is a pretty unassuming figure (in the Midrash it's said that he had a stutter, due to a biblical passage implying he had trouble talking) and he stood up and defeated those who would oppress others. Even if the details are probably not historically accurate, it's still a message that's pretty consistent throughout our history. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 10:39
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I like this kind of thread a lot, so thanks to anyone taking the time to answer any questions. Anyway, questions!
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I think you took my point about practicing in our own way out of context, jumping to human sacrifice is a hell of a loving leap dude. I was just trying to make the point that you don't need to be practice my specific religion to not go to Hell, or whatever, and you can totes be a good and redeemable person without having shared my exact literal experience.
RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 11:35
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As I stated earlier what Judaism thinks about pagan practices is irrelevant, it only concerns itself with those who are part of its covenant. Like yes if someone is attacking the Jews, in whatever form that takes they care but that's a physical and worldly reason. Judaism also has a lot less of a focus on redemption in the after life than it's descendant faiths do and doesn't prosletytize to "save". They're not part of our covenant so the rules don't apply to them.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:12
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It's also important to remember that Judaism was created not just as a religion but as the rules and practices for a specific nation at that period of time. Unlike say, Christianity or Islam, which were not designed for a singular nation but to be spread to people at the far corners of the Earth.CountFosco posted:
Absolutely...but that's because of the actions themselves bringing harm to others. It has nothing to do with not believe in MY GOD in particular. As an example, Evangelical Christianity says if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord (And even then, some mean THEIR Jesus as opposed to another church's interpretation of Jesus) you will goto Hell, full stop. Doesn't matter how good a person you are, without Jesus you can't be saved. Ancient Judaism really didn't give a flying gently caress if non Israelites went to Hell, or wherever, that's on them. Because Modern Judaism is no longer contained to Israel it has changed its stance that you don't need to be Jewish for redemption, the laws only apply to us though. It's kinda like asking why we don't enforce US copyright law in China. We do, but only if it impacts us and we can only do so much, since international law is fickle. Outside of that case, does anybody in the US actually care if someone in China plagiarizes another Chinese creation? Probably not. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 11:41
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CountFosco posted:"To make of Abraham a great nation and bless Abraham and make his name great so that he will be a blessing, to bless those who bless him and curse him who curses him and all peoples on earth would be blessed through Abraham." I legit think you're asking interesting questions, but I think trying to argue thousands of years of philisophical and religious debate with a couple out of context bible quotes is not really the answer. Jews aren't biblical literalists, for one thing. I'm not a Rabbi so I'm going to claim to be on the up and up about every little thing, but the continuing interpretation via Midrash is more important than just what one line out of the Bible says. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 13:46
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It's pretty dense and unreadable, and wouldn't recommend it as anything but a cure for insomnia. When I'm talking about Midrash I'm not talking about the books but the zeitgeist surrounding continuing talk and discussion about biblical topics, which continues constantly. Even what we're doing right now, debating about these things, is technically Midrash. Rabbis exist pretty much to be a vehicle to ask difficult questions because they spent years studying it.
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Mar 22, 2017 14:41
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zakharov posted:What? I mean people can believe whatever bullshit they want but we are commanded to accept converts as just as Jewish as the rest of us. Naw what he's getting at is that generally speaking more traditional movements won't accept conversions from less traditional movements. So a reform conversion is often not seen as valid by conservative or orthodox, but reform will accept all 3. In general I really think it doesn't matter. The largest movement in the US by a large margin is reform so you're already in with the vast majority of Jews. In my experience unless they're full Hasidic as well nobody is going to care. There's so few Jews in most parts of the country that all the movements will work together. All 3 movements are also considered valid for the law of return if you care about such things, too.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:00
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Earwicker posted:That's not just a conversion issue, a lot of orthodox don't really see reform Judaism as "valid" converted or not. Yeah that's a fair point. Reform changed their rules a few decades back so jewish descent follows both matrilineal and patrilineal lines. Before, reform was seen as "bad Jews" who werent following the laws. This pretty much severed any chance of getting them to agree on anything.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:03
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If you don't wanna leave them there it's perfectly fine to take them down. As for what to do with them do note the mezuzah itself doesn't mean much, it's just a case. The scrolls inside however are considered sacred. I'd bring them to a synagogue.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:55
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