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ProfessorProf posted:Battler solemnly announced the start of the game. Compared to his fired-up attitude at the end of the last game, where he and Erika had sworn to settle everything next time, he was extremely quiet now...
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May 1, 2017 17:09
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So the cup puzzle is definitely significant, right? As ZiegeDame said, following the same line of logic would suggest that you can solve the puzzle with only three coins, but the version we're asked to solve specifically uses five instead even though that's a less elegant solution. Possibly overthinking this. Anyway, the analogy could never work 'cause cups aren't furniture.
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May 9, 2017 16:24
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CottonWolf posted:Some cups are furniture! Well, in both of our defenses it's still pretty ambiguous! It's certainly intended to provoke the idea of multiple identities in one 'cup' at least. The game moves on pretty quickly, probably to suggest we not think about it too deeply - Seacats is pretty convoluted so far but it seems a stretch that a character would have a secret identity within their secret identity, which is what the 3-cup stack would suggest. That would be like a Scooby Doo episode where they unmask the ghost but it's really an old man, and they unmask the old man and he's really a tablecloth tied to a tree or something.
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May 9, 2017 18:23
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If an adulterous, twelve-toed rapist nihilist occultist alcoholic lottery winner and war profiteer who never held down a real job and spent a decade working on a single riddle can end his life with no regrets, at least the bar has been set so low for the rest of us we're all pretty likely to clear it. I forget: are we watching this with the 'theatre-going power'? Is this objectively true? I almost hope this is all an embellishment by Yasu, just so we can find out later that Kinzo met a more appropriate, possibly grisly end...
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Sep 6, 2017 14:43
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ProfessorProf posted:Earlier, Beatrice was summoning butterfly servants to move books around the library, so I think it's safe to say that it's at least slightly embellished. tiistai posted:We're watching Yasu's confession. It's up to you to believe or disbelieve it.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:16
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Episode 7 felt really, really short!! Maybe it's because of the lack of murder, but that really rocketed by, huh. I suppose episode 8 will have to be longer in comparison, to wrap up the 1986 happy version of the story as well as the Ange portion (and maybe even the Lion fragment?), and of course to get back to the character we care most about, Goat-kun.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:20
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Poor Ange  now that we've seen anti-fantasy, I wish we could go back to believing in magic!Even with Battler's conspicuous absence, for him to make it out alive would be tremendously sad - although, being presumed dead and having probably grabbed some of the gold, his life would be a bit like the original Beatrice's, I guess. Maybe it's better he never found out about his biological mother, the way Kyrie behaves - and Kasumi's treatment of Ange suggests that even if he DID know and survived, running would be better anyway. Still wondering who sent the gold out to the victims' relatives, as well...
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Sep 15, 2017 15:23
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KataraniSword posted:Just because someone did not commit a crime does not mean they were not intending to commit a crime. Sayo very likely sent those out before the conference with the intent of carrying out something, even if they did not. After all, the only people other than the servants who would know about the servants' next of kin are Natsuhi and Krauss (presumably), and they most certainly didn't survive this. Yeah, that checks out. Thank you! Took leave of my senses for a moment there.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:46
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From the way Yasu just... shut down when the adults discovered the gold, I don't get the impression that Yasu has a death wish particularly, or that they even want to commit suicide. It's certainly not their first priority, or they wouldn't take such roundabout ways of getting there; additionally, I hardly think the scale of their plans suggests the possibility of copping out whatsoever. It's a very strong commitment to... something. I'm not sure that giving up is part of Yasu's thought process, in brief. I think they just feel... done, and the death part doesn't even factor into that at all. I suspect Yasu starts the roulette wheel, and views its eventual stopping position as something inevitable, rather than something they've actively chosen. free Trapt CD fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:36
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 Even figuring out the last twilight first is making my head spin a little!It would have been easier if the culprits always lied. As it is, I'm evaluating each statement one at a time... So, two things here: "a culprit must not die"! If we accept that at face value, it means that the totality of culprits are among those alive at the end (Battler, George, Maria) or that someone's death has been misidentified earlier. The wording of Nanjo's statement earlier that "No one will mistakenly confirm a death, even those other than myself", if true, leaves open the possibility that only the 'death' part of the statement is true, not that the identity is confirmed. If we're thinking that purple statement is a lie, then Nanjo must be a culprit - so either the person who identified him was mistaken, or is also a culprit. Let's follow that thought for a bit. The person who confirms Nanjo's death at the 7th twilight is Jessica. The wrinkle here is that she states this in purple ("H, he's dead… He's been killed!"). If she is not a culprit, she cannot lie - I'm assuming this refers to absolute truth - so then, if Nanjo still lives, Jessica is also a culprit, right? Which implies that she survives the 8th twilight, about which George states in purple "She probably died instantly", and Maria says "There's no way she could live through this". So if Jessica is a culprit, then the only person who doesn't say something objectively untrue at the final twilight is Battler, who states "George-aniki, Maria and I couldn't have killed Jessica", which is true, because she's a culprit and thus still lives. I'm sure I've tricked myself somewhere here. Red truth says 6 of the 17 really did die at the first twilight, but for there to be four culprits at least seems a little off... Getting into small bombs territory here, I think. E: One more thought about the 8th twilight... If everything George, Maria and Battler say is true, that means someone else is alive, so Nanjo is almost definitely one of the culprits! Right? free Trapt CD fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 15:06
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ZiegeDame posted:Ok a lot still to think over but one mistake you made here, which idonotlikepeas noticed, is that the word 'mistakenly' implies lack of intent. If a culprit confirms the death of someone who is alive, it isn't a mistake, it is a deliberate lie. Thank you ZD, that's true, and I think it's pretty key. I'm also glad MoMNBaC picked up on Nanjo's fate being spelled out, because that makes things much more clear. Everyone is doing some good posting here. So, a hypothesis for the second twilight! The following purple text is from characters who are established as truly dead, given what Nanjo has said and the consequences of that: Gohda: "Madam's room was locked" Shannon: "I unlocked the door…" Kanon: "Krauss-sama and Natsuhi-sama lay sprawled on the floor inside the room" Nanjo: "I confirmed both of their deaths. There can be no doubt that they died instantly" Shannon: "All of us servants were together the whole time" Kanon: "All of us servants can prove an alibi for all of the other servants" (ie not Genji, who is dead as confirmed by Nanjo and Kanon) Nanjo: "We also sealed the mansion itself, and all of us took refuge in the guesthouse" So: they died instantly, meaning they could not have locked the door from the inside. Yet the red truth tells us after the group leaves, no culprit 'joined the group', and that the seals on the room will remain unbroken. However, nobody searches the room. Beatrice is closer than she thinks with her guess. The culprit did lock the door from the inside, and then hid; the only thing she gets wrong is that the culprit simply doesn't escape. They stay there. And the only way for this person's absence to go unnoticed is for it to be someone who is already 'dead' - one of the culprits of the first twilight! So, they really DID kill six people, but two of them were Krauss and Natsuhi, and the other four were in the dining hall. This also implies that another of the 'victims' of the first twilight is alive and well, although since the person who committed the first twilight killed six people, the second person that is playing dead MUST murder someone later on to fit with our rules (if they're playing dead along with a culprit, I think that counts as cooperating). And, because the children check their parents' bodies in the first twilight, two of them being alive would necessitate that among our final trio of George, Maria and Battler, either one or two people lie about their parents' death - meaning that, because they have lied, they are also a culprit, and have committed another murder. So, just an example scenario: Hideyoshi murders Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa and Genji in the dining hall, and he and Eva lock the door from the inside, douse themselves in blood and play dead. Upon inspection, George checks their bodies and lies about their condition. Note that the dining hall is not stated to be sealed or locked until the time that the rest of the mansion is, much later. Shortly afterwards, Hideyoshi ambushes Krauss and Natsuhi in their room, murdering them and again locking the door from the inside before somehow fitting himself under the bed. However, because he is fat, he gets stuck, and cannot extricate himself, even after the investigation group seals the whole place down. In the meantime, Eva has left the mansion, preparing for the murder she will necessarily commit later. The whole thing is predicated on Nanjo being alive, and thus truthful, and the people whose deaths he reports also being truthful as a consequence. I hope somebody can find something wrong with this. The whole game as presented already felt so quick as to feel ruthless and mercenary...
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Oct 27, 2017 17:54
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idonotlikepeas posted:Oho! That's the key I needed. The murders can't all be committed by an offscreen person. In order to be a culprit, one of the survivors must also kill someone personally. The only murder that fits the bill is Shannon's; the others all have to be done by outside forces to bust the closed rooms and alibis. And Jessica said George didn't kill Shannon, which means that that murder would have to have been committed by Battler. This is exactly where I've ended up, and why I really hope there's a flaw in the logic somewhere. It would be heartbreaking if that's actually what happened. Can't we just blame it all on Nanjo and call it a day?
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Oct 27, 2017 18:21
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Congrats and thank you, Prof! I suddenly had something to grieve about in the middle of the thread, and Seacats (and the thread) were honestly quite helpful with that process, viz 'without love it cannot be seen', and thoughts about it helped keep me on an even keel. Sad to see it go! I'm still thinking about that ending.Myriad Truths posted:One funny thing that the manga adds about Toya/Battler is that the reason EP3 is so very anti-Eva is because Toya had been under the impression Eva was the murderer too. All Sayo said was that one of his family members was the culprit, and the only survivor was Eva, so Toya jumps to the wrong conclusion and helps Ikuko write a spiteful Forgery directly accusing Eva. But Eva reads it and realizes it was written by Battler, and tells them what actually happened. So, then, Eva knew about Toya's true identity when the first book was public, and didn't communicate it to Ange for the entire period the books were being published? I suppose either out of discretion or, in the least charitable scenario, spite? Or maybe she was just trying to avoid a situation where Toya suffered an attack. Ahh, it's all so complicated...
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Dec 2, 2017 17:30
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