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I guess the next question is to establish who would be about nineteen? Kanon? Battler? To quote Futurama: "that just raises more questions!"
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Mar 24, 2017 15:12
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Does anyone have a list of the first 6 people who are killed each game? I'm curious if any kanji/letters are consistent among the list each time.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:56
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Ok, so I decided to throw something together since I wanted a visual: Here's all our round 1 murder victims, along with when they died and how many times they died. Notice something interesting? Rudolf gets killed 3/4 times, but the one time he doesn't get killed, Kanon, Kinzo, and Kumasawa (all one hit wonders) all get bumped off. If we're going off the "cross off letters" idea, what characters do all 3 of those people have that are found in Rudolf's name? I'm assuming it's Kanji related, so I'd have to dig around and try to learn that in order to proceed further, but I hope I'm on the right trail. But there's a catch. Kinzo is already dead, so do we ignore him as a sacrifice? And does that then mean with Kanon & Kumasawa, we only need 5 to get the correct set of letters?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:32
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I'm so glad there are other Stout readers among us. I got into him once A&E did the serial adaptations, I'm still sad they didn't make it to "Some Buried Caesar". But it did start me on looking for others besides Holmes, and I'd throw in "The Devotion of Suspect X" by Keigo Higashino & "The Last Policeman" by Ben Winters as decent mysteries. And if you're ever in Houston TX, check out "Murdered by the Books" which is a pretty cool store specializing in them. Back on topic: Looks like it's time for the adults to get killed so Battler doesn't get filled in on his true heritage. And Battler is in the family conference, so we know he can't be making the calls. Weren't Jessica & Kanon in the conference room the entire time during the call as well? Ghoda & the Doc, as well as Erika were "having a chat" though I suppose someone could of left for a moment, made the call, and come back. So that leaves Genji, Jessica, George, Maria, and Rosa, correct? Assuming we're going with the 17 individuals theory.
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Mar 31, 2017 14:26
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Battler reminds me of Wolfe and Holmes: They're super smart, but you have to get them motivated and interested in order to activate that smartness. Otherwise they're goofing off/getting high on drugs.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:00
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The original name of that one was "Ten Little Indians" which changed due to the negative racial connotations, though I forget if the poem was changed as well. I know Suchet did the Poirot film versions, but is there a good film adaptation of it?
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Apr 4, 2017 17:20
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Dr Pepper posted:Uh nope, it was originaly "Ten little N***" and even the island was "N*** Island" wait what? Wow, I've been living a lie for all these years.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:53
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I really like how Suchet performed in "Murder on the Orient Express". In the book the reveal is very much like Bern here, full of "well of course I know how it was done. but I'm enjoying knowing, and the guy is a dick, so we'll all lie and be happy". In the film, Poirot really shows a fight with his faith, and his values, in the face of what some of us would call a justified murder. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of noir detective fiction be this callous though. And even then, the inner monologue is usually long on how regretful it is that life is cheap and short.
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Apr 5, 2017 01:08
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oath2order posted:So, here is a fun game. Dlanor's name is an anagram. If you can figure out what it is before tomorrow, you may get a clue to what her identity is. Well all we have to do is switch things around, and we get Roland. I guess it's time for this game to have someone else come in and toot their own horn?
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Apr 5, 2017 16:03
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I can't believe we're rooting for the witch who tortured us for so long. I guess "The enemy of my enemy" applies here. Also they make a cute couple 
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Apr 7, 2017 14:44
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So I guess Battler's nickname/real name is Dante now? I would of figured it out sooner if he had silver hair.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:35
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I'm getting Phoenix Wright vibes from this scene. Sadly, Erika is no where near as awesome as Edgeworth.
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Apr 15, 2017 16:02
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Rodyle posted:He's a sorcerer. this makes a lot of sense. his Charisma is much higher than his Intelligence.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:23
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Tell us a story Grandmother Ange! I at least appreciate the acknowledgement of the changing of the framing method, since as Featherine said, It'd be like reading the novel backwards to have Battler tell us what's going on now.
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Apr 29, 2017 18:48
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This is really pushing down on the Beatrice = Shannon = Kannon angle. Only one of the 3 can achieve the love they're wishing for? It's going to make for some awkward family reunions in the future.
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May 26, 2017 13:57
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I suspect the mirror repelling property is because instead of the face they "think" they have, it's showing the real person's face that they own. Definitely would break and create that anti-magic toxin. Is it just me, or is it getting real difficult to figure out what's "real", what's story, and what's meta? I'm not sure if it's writing issues or something that's suppose to be part of the entire tale, like Scheherazade weaving a story inside a story.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:39
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Qrr posted:Also, it's really weird that everything we've seen has been declared, in story, to not be canon. Though not in red because they could be lying. The first 2 were written by (in theory) the killer before they murdered anyone and put in bottles and signed as Maria. The third and fourth were imitators. I don't know what was up with the fifth, and the sixth is apparently by this famous fanfic writer Ange is meeting. Of course, if what future Ange is experiencing is also fictional then it's not a reliable source of whether the other things are fictional. Ok, this makes much more sense. None of these are what's really going on, it's the interpretations of various individuals of what happened, something like Rashamon. I think part of my flaw in understanding was not grasping that.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:44
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I'm kinda hoping one of these "pieces" decides they've had enough of this poo poo and stabs back. Mostly because having Erika attack Bern would be kinda cathartic. Still, I've done my share of creative writing, and I know the terrible poo poo I put my characters through for the sake of a story would put me on the same level. It's really well done here how you can feel sympathy for even the worst person(s).
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Jun 9, 2017 13:59
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When in doubt, it's always nazi gold. I'm curious what the date of this event would be mapped to the real world calendar. D-Day was June 1944, the surrender of the Nazi gov't is April 1945, and August is when the two nuclear bombs were dropped. Going to be interesting seeing all this wrapped up. Thanks to the thread we've had a lot of theories that seem solid, but getting the final story will be pretty great, and I'm happy to be present for it. Also, with the presence of the military base, tiny bombs is back on the table. 
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Jul 10, 2017 03:54
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Well that escalated quickly. And thanks to reading this after finishing another novel, I now have the image of Beatrice in 1920s gangster garb, smoking a stogie and shooting a tommy gun while cackling. It works way too well.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:30
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Huh, I was wondering when we'd hit our checkbox for Christian Mythology in this game. resurgam, thank you for pretty much spelling out why Kinzo is a terrible person in exact precision terms. I feel like it's really easy to miss in this nice little love story at times that people can do terrible and horrible things, and even if it was for a good cause, they should still be called out as complete pieces of poo poo. I may be influenced atm by going through the July crisis that started WW1, and all the justifications of "I was doing it for the good of my country" dumbass moments.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:34
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I'm hyped! I'm really looking forward to having everything out plain, and to seeing what truth is, where the clues were all along, and what red herrings we chased. I don't know why, there's something thrilling about being able to look back at everything and go "yea, it was there the whole time!"
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Jul 21, 2017 14:11
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what I found interesting and rewarding was that Lion decided to look at all those past games, and accept that, in another life, circumstances would force their hand to be something completely against what they are now. It's one of those little questions I think about: do you accept truth, no matter how painful, or do you live with comfortable lies. it's always easy to say you want truth, but how many lies do we tell each other to keep our life how we want it.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:31
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You've been fabulous for taking us this far, I wouldn't blame you for taking a break. Thank you again for all your hard work and for giving us such an enjoyable tale.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:38
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ZiegeDame posted:Ok, if both Shannon and Beatrice referred to in the third person, who is supposed to be narrating this? Is 'I' supposed to mean Yasu? Does Yasu even 'exist' at this point at a discreet entity capable of independent thought, or were they wholly subsumed by Beatrice? Is the use of a personal pronoun just a quirk of translation? Am I reading way too much into this? Considering we have a fractured mental state going on, I don't think the question of "who am I" is reading too much into it, but rather, is the core question. Even though Yasu does not know their origin, they know they are singled out due to treatment/physical condition/etc, and that lack of community and identity is really screwing with their head.
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Aug 4, 2017 18:30
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EagerSleeper posted:I'm about to die from a hurricane, but have another Umineko doodle done from my phone. Keep safe Hurricane buddy! Also, this is now my default image for Kanon/Yasu during the entire 1986 conference with Battle around.
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Aug 26, 2017 16:03
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It's a beautiful story of broken people in a broken world and their wishes and desires. It's a soap opera and a tale of caution, and I've loved it even when I've been frustrated with it. I'm looking forward to creating similar tales in my gaming group when my copy of the Bluebeard's Bride game comes in.
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Aug 31, 2017 13:47
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I feel like the setup will be Battler going "oh it was just childish words" and waving away the promise thinking he's giving Shannon a clear conscious, and instead breaking the last threads holding back a deadly shrieking butterfly. I do wonder about George and Jessica though. Will they pull to hard on their parts and cause Yasu to break apart at the seams? Much like our audience, I am chained and cannot leave till the play is over, and the curtain falls. No matter how much I want to stop.
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Sep 11, 2017 23:08
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This scene is suppose to be a great triumph, but man, it just feels sad. Poor Yasu, she's acting like a robot who had their spring wound down.
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Sep 12, 2017 13:42
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Here's my issue: Why the hell are they setting the bomb during day 2? Just say you all went out and tried to solve the riddle, and you left cause you were cold/tired/wet and they were still at the chapel. Set bomb to explode when you have the drat boat ready to leave, not when you're still trapped and have no escape. Come on Kyrie, you're suppose to be the smart one! 
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Sep 13, 2017 19:18
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idonotlikepeas posted:Yeah, it would make sense if Eva's just wounded here. Her damage isn't described as graphically as anyone else's is and it didn't look like Kyrie was actually checking. This is why you always do a double-tap.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:37
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Geez, poor Ange. I feel like this is going to be the big reveal, and we're going to see Battler or Maria as the survivor in the other mansion telling this story to her while she's in recovery, but not yet revealing their role. The bit about giving fully into being evil than a false regretful evil though? That's gold right there. Reminds me of the quote about, if you find yourself at the mercy of someone, pray they're evil, because a good man will shoot you dead at that instant instead of gloating.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:25
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DentD posted:All aboard SS Willion, toot toot! Aye aye Captain! This is an interesting turn in the entire story, we're fighting against a new witch to prove that happy endings are real. I'm gonna enjoy this fight, and hoping we can wipe that stupid grin of Bern's face. I'm seeing it as an indictment of people who insist that stories be realistic, gritty, and 120% loss.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:43
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Jim Henson as a witch would of been one hell of a storyteller for this game. Also, Muppet-Beato!
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Sep 17, 2017 16:31
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What was it that Bern promised in red? That there would be no happy ending? Does a good ending need to be happy, or just a path to move on with life? Prof, thank you for this thread. it's been a ride, and while I haven't contributed much, I greatly appreciate all your work and thank you for sharing it with us.
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Sep 23, 2017 05:50
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I'm also going to thank both Witch-chat & our in-thread Battlers for providing amazing, if at times confusing and hard to comprehend analysis, mystery solving, and life to this thread. You all are Creation-Level Witches in my book!
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Sep 23, 2017 14:03
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Without love, it cannot be seen. For Ange, a child raised without the warth of love for so long, I think the love of her brother is more important than the truth. I'm going to have to watch out for this game, as an older brother with a little sister I just know it's going to pull at my heart strings.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:32
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resurgam40 posted:In short... I think I see what Battler is trying to do here, but he- whoever "he" really is, be it a sorcerer, spirit or merely a memory- is going about it the wrong way. Red Truth: Battler is incompetent
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Sep 25, 2017 16:22
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So, stupid idea with no support other than gut feeling with a slice of "that'd be nice": Amakusa is the Battler who escaped from the island. Just a dumb twist idea, but it'd be interesting if true. From just reading along, I'm also going to guess that Eva never told Ange the truth to both A) protect her from terrible information about her family, and B) to give her a hard shell to protect her from the world since she would be alone once Eva died. As we all know, the kids were not well adjusted adults, and after surviving the events of the island, I can't imagine how traumatized one would be in their mental processes.
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Sep 27, 2017 16:57
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EagerSleeper posted:Of course I don't think Kinzo is worthy of forgiveness, but he's dead and there's not anything reasonable anyone can do to anymore drag a punishment out of him. The issue is that Ange is hanging on the pop-fiction consensus of Kinzo as a "BEATOOORRICHE"-spouting, occult eccentric instead of the human truth of him being a flawed (terribly flawed) person who didn't need anything more than human nature that everyone already has to commit the sins he did. No need for the cartoon version to explain what had happened back then. For Ange, it's more important to realize that it's the same with Eva. Eva made Ange's life a living hell, but being pushed to continuously demonize Eva according to sordid tabloid tales is not beneficial past a point. Hopefully Ange can find the way to leave behind the remnants of the trauma they survived, and make it towards a better life. Hopefully the same happens to all of us. There's a line I heard that I think fits here: "Funerals are for the living." When you're dead, your life is over, but those left behind still have to process your life, and what legacy you left behind. Ange is having to do that twice over, both with Eva and the entire rest of the family, and with her support network being a bunch of people getting their kicks, relatives that want to put her back into the same bound/imprisoned situation, and a snarky bodyguard.
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Sep 28, 2017 14:01
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