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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!
Depends a lot on what season/episode. Most are pretty good, some are mediocre (particularly in the waning seasons), and a few are cringe-inducingly bad.

Overall though it was a fun show and worth watching.

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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

FactsAreUseless posted:

It's not awful, but it's already very dated just in terms of writing and style. It's the best Sorkin show, but it's still a Sorkin show. I'd rather watch West Wing than the Newsroom, which is unbelievable garbage. West Wing is at least a mostly-competent drama. But frankly, if you want punchy dialogue and character moments, just watch Gilmore Girls instead.

Yeah it's absolutely a product of its times, gotta watch it with that in mind if you've never seen it before (and seconded on Newsroom being utter poo poo).

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

WampaLord posted:

Yes, Seasons 1-4 are generally excellent, with only a couple bad episodes in there. After that, quality varies, with the election plot being much more interesting than the White House stuff.

The addition of Alan Alda as Senator Vinnick seriously helped buoy the series at the end.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Tewdrig posted:

Was that not after Leo died IRL? I thought we were supposed to have Pres Alda but it got rewritten after he died. I assumed that was the shoehorn, but it's been a long time.

The way it went down, according to the writers, is that they originally had Santos slated to win but when the season opened Vinnick resonated much more than they had ever expected him to and so there was a period mid-season where they were arguing about whether or not to alter the outcome of the election so he'd end up winning. John Spencer died during all of this, which may have had an impact on things but no one's come out and said it was the deciding factor or anything.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

R. Guyovich posted:

that's the only way sorkin knows to establish a protagonist

President Bartlett wasn't even supposed to be the series protagonist or that big a part of the show initially; Sorkin intended him to only make periodic appearances every few episodes and the majority of the show focus on the scutwork of his staff, but Sheen made such an impression early on that the writers decided to make him much more prominent.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

suburban virgin posted:

God drat. There are monkeys in the zoo that jerk themselves off in public less than this guy.

While I like the West Wing, I will never argue that Sorkin is not terminally up his own rear end.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

MeatwadIsGod posted:

I don't think I could tolerate an Aaron Sorkin show. I tried watching The Newsroom once and it was just a bad Network wannabe with none of Network's foresight or good acting. Just terrible.

Yeah Newsroom is smug, self-congratulatory garbage.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Crowsbeak posted:

:lol: like an open atheist? I have my doubts a open atheist could get the democratic nomination.

As a pro-choice, agnostic-at-best Republican senator from California, he beat out an evangelical reverend from rural Virginia for the GOP nomination in the last season after winning NH and running the table on Super Tuesday. You know, in case you needed more evidence that the show, while entertaining, isn't very reflective at all of the modern American political landscape (and wasn't much at the time either).

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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Hodgepodge posted:

To give the writers credit, the way he mumbles you'd think even he was ashamed of what he's saying.

Unfortunately that's just the way Toby talked. He had two mode, angry self-righteous rant, and condescending mumbling.

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