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I didn't see a thread discussing farming anywhere, so here goes: I'm in the process of buying a house on a property that has ~15 farmable acres that are considered to be average to good for productivity, and are currently leased to grow corn, soybeans and the like. The property is in North-West Illinois, about 90 minutes from Chicago, so there are a number of affluent suburbs in easy reach, as well as the city - lots of farmer's markets and CSAs in the area. My plan, in very rough form, is to experiment with a few different crops on a smaller parcel of land (3ish acres) and then slowly expand as I find things that work and are saleable in larger quantities. My partner and I are able to telecommute a few days a week, so we would probably have 2ish hours/weekday to tend to crops, and the weekends to do some of the more labor intensive stuff. Our goal isn't to get rich from this; we'd like to get to the point where the property is basically paying for itself. Figure we would want to net $60,000/year, or about $4,000 per acre per year once we're up and running which seems doable if we work the right crops and hustle. Right now we are considering growing various garlics and mushrooms, as those seem to be reasonably low intensity on the labor scale while also selling reasonably well and at a good price. We aren't interested in growing marijuana - the security headaches alone would make it not worth it, and besides that, a grow license in Illinois is vastly expensive and difficult to obtain. Any goons who turn a little profit on a little farm have any insight or ideas?
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Mar 20, 2017 00:05
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My advice would be to continue renting out your land except for maybe a half-acre mixed vegetable field for personal use. You aren't going to net 60,000$ farming with 2 people farming 20 hours a week and forget about farming multiple acres unless you bring in better business partners. From what I understand about mushroom farming, you typically do it indoors in sterile conditions. I would seek the advice of a local mushroom farmer. If you're farming organic, you had better make sure your tenants also farm organically and have been farming organically for 3-5 years already. Also your plots will be fully infested with weeds year round if you're leaving the heavy work for weekends. If you're not farming organic, good luck selling at the farmer's market. You should consider an Illinois pesticide applicators license. Who's going to man the vegetable stand? That's a long shift including set up and take down. A lot of farmer's markets have waiting lists. You might be able to sell your friends and family on a CSA but there's no guarantee you'll produce an acceptable amount for them with no apparent farming experience. I would just give your friends your extra produce for free. That way there's no expectation and they're not buying in.
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Mar 20, 2017 04:04
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Side hustle implies you have another full time job. Farming at any sort of scale larger than your back garden is a full-time job.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:20
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I find that the farmer you are leasing the land too is likely to short you on your share of the crops and is not worth the hassle on 15 acres. Maybe grandpa just lives next to criminal farmers. (Likely). Also the farmers I know are getting drunk all the time or eating lunch complaining about liberals so I am not sure farming 15 acres is a full time job. I think farmers have conned us into thinking they are hard working. Can you get a government grant to not grow corn anymore? I would do that.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:40
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Elephanthead posted:I find that the farmer you are leasing the land too is likely to short you on your share of the crops and is not worth the hassle on 15 acres. Maybe grandpa just lives next to criminal farmers. (Likely). Also the farmers I know are getting drunk all the time or eating lunch complaining about liberals so I am not sure farming 15 acres is a full time job. I think farmers have conned us into thinking they are hard working. Can you get a government grant to not grow corn anymore? I would do that. industrial farming for row crop isn't hard work other than a couple times a year, but that is pretty different from CSA type stuff
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Mar 20, 2017 18:07
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Pewdiepie posted:My advice would be to continue renting out your land except for maybe a half-acre mixed vegetable field for personal use. You aren't going to net 60,000$ farming with 2 people farming 20 hours a week and forget about farming multiple acres unless you bring in better business partners. From what I understand about mushroom farming, you typically do it indoors in sterile conditions. I would seek the advice of a local mushroom farmer. I totally get that there's a lot of learning to do, and I really don't expect farming to be anything but an interesting (and hopefully, eventually, edible) money sink for me for at least the first few years. The reason I started the thread is to get ideas and learn from people who have done this, and your post definitely gave me some insights into parts of this process that are going to require me to learn more. You sound like you have some experience with farmer's markets. Can you tell me about it? Are people generally pretty friendly/cooperative? One idea I had was I could maybe partner with someone who is experienced and grows different stuff - if I had small quantities of stuff that on their own wouldn't merit a spot at a farmer's market and helped them out, that would at least let me see if I could make stuff that could sell, or if not, figure out why it doesn't sell. That way I wouldn't have to worry about having tons of product, could get experience with how that part of it works. I wouldn't even care about making a profit with that - probably would just let them keep any proceeds in exchange for letting me learn, to start. Really, my plan for the next 1-2 years is to reclaim 3ish acres from the leased land. Some of that reclaimed land would be used for building a workshop/office, and the rest would be used for planting and experimenting and figuring out what works. That seems like a large enough piece of land that I would get a feel for the labor, get a chance to learn how to be more efficient, but not so large that it's overwhelming. Even if I didn't grow on most of it, it would still be at least 2 acres I'd be rehabbing to grow organic down the line. I can reclaim more land as things progress, if they do progress. My first planted plots will probably be 4x 25x25 foot plots for different garlic varieties with tomatoes interspersed, and maybe another plot 4x 25x25 feet plots of various legumes. Garlic because it's tasty and relatively easy to grow, tomatoes because my partner is excited about them, and legumes because they don't take a ton of effort and also it'll give me something to talk about with the farmer leasing my land since he grows them as well. For the mushrooms - they don't really need fully sterile environments - just you want to limit spores getting out, and need to pasteurize your straw/substrate. Doesn't take much to get started small - you can grow edible button shrooms in a cardboard box pretty easily (lots of people do it - little kits you can harvest, it's pretty neat) - it's when you scale up and aim for real production that you need to invest in setting up grows that have negative pressure and better humidity and temperature control and all that My plan here would be to see if I can scale the cardboard box approach for one variety to get a steady output of maybe a pound or so a week, with the shrooms being in different stages. Not a saleable quantity at all, but definitely enough to learn on. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Side hustle implies you have another full time job. Farming at any sort of scale larger than your back garden is a full-time job. Yep! My partner and I both have full time jobs that let us telecommute several days/week. On days we don't commute, we're saving 3 hours apiece without the commute, and on days we do go in to work, there'd still be a couple of hours we'd have to do stuff, if we've got the energy. I gave a pessimistic estimate of 10 extra hours during the weekday for that. While that's not enough for a full on farming operation, it's definitely enough time to have for a small start, I think. I definitely appreciate the reality check - I'm under no illusions that this is going to be easy or immediately profitable. It's something I'm interested in doing as a hobby to start, and I wouldn't mind being able to turn things I'm interested in doing into side cash. The $60k number is just a goal - not one I actually necessarily think is possible any time soon, but hey, doesn't hurt to aim high.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:01
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Sorry man I'm not as experienced with farmer's markets as you think I am. I just buy produce from em sometimes and I've also worked with farmers who have wanted to sell stuff on the farmer's market. It helps to have a friend who already has a successful stand to piggyback off of so your idea of finding someone else's stand to use is pretty good. I'm sure they'll want something in return for helping sell your veggies. Since you said you're rehabbing the land to grow organic, that might be real difficult with your tenants. Since they're farming row crops conventionally I can all but guarantee you they're spraying roundup all over their crops. That's a wide-spectrum herbicide and will definitely kill your plants through drift. Your farm won't be considered organic until 3 years after they stop spraying the roundup everywhere and you'd have to do a bunch of paperwork and put up no spray signs everywhere. I'm sure it would cause a lot of tension between you and your tenants if you forced them to go organic. You're gonna want to just plant as much variety as possible instead of only garlic/tomato/beans your first year. You aren't going to know what will be successful for you unless you plant it and then next year you can focus in on whatever plants worked the best for your land/your time commitment/your cooking. I would go to a seed store and buy basically everything you can then divide your land into 4 sectors and focus on different plant families in each sector. As an example: solanaceous (tomatoes potatoes peppers), alliums (onions garlic chives etc), brassicas (kale brocc turnips), legumes (always need beans in a crop rotation because they fix N to the soil).
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Mar 21, 2017 03:29
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The types of crops you can grow profitably on that small of a scale are very labor and resource intensive. The crops that are not super labor and resource intensive require thousands of acres to grow profitably. There are reasons why you don't see 15 acre farms that are not someone's vanity project. People struggle to pull down a 60k net profit on 1500 acres. The nost profitable thing to do with this land that is still legal is to continue to lease it out. You are not going to support a farming operation on 15 acres.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:40
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therobit posted:The types of crops you can grow profitably on that small of a scale are very labor and resource intensive. The crops that are not super labor and resource intensive require thousands of acres to grow profitably. There are reasons why you don't see 15 acre farms that are not someone's vanity project. When you say "labor and resource intensive" how are you defining that? How many man hours/day/acre for example, are you talking about? Are you talking about labor peaks (planting & harvesting/processing) or ongoing labor (planting, maintenance, harvest, processing)? What resources (other than cash, of course) are you talking about? I'm asking because I want to learn, so more detail is always better.
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Mar 22, 2017 13:40
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metztli posted:When you say "labor and resource intensive" how are you defining that? How many man hours/day/acre for example, are you talking about? Are you talking about labor peaks (planting & harvesting/processing) or ongoing labor (planting, maintenance, harvest, processing)? What resources (other than cash, of course) are you talking about? I'm asking because I want to learn, so more detail is always better. My family is mostly in dairy farming and my mom is a hard-core gardener, on a much smaller plot than you are thinking of. An acre is bigger than you think it is when you have to walk it bent over pulling weeds, clearing brush, and picking rock to reclaim for farming. And stones have to be picked by hand. That's at least a weeks of work assuming 2 people 3 hours a day. Then there is brush clearing which suuuuucks and requires disposal after clearing, which means either woodchipper or managed burning. As for resources, you will need a tillage tool, rototiller or similar. These can be powered or non, but if you are talking an acre or more I would go with a gas powered version. You will also need some sort of pump sprayer for fertilizer/pesticides if going non-organic or to use organic versions, and a spreader if you decide to go with manure. Carts for hauling the crops when picking, storage bins/bags, a place to keep them where they won't go bad or be exposed to pests. Depending on the crop, you will need fencing/lines for beans, tomato cages for tomatoes and some peppers, straw for spreading under crops to help keep weeds down, other things I am forgetting or not familiar with for crops like garlic/alliums. That's just what I have off the top of my head.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:52
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With labor it varies by crop. I mostly have exposure to dryland grain farming, where the main inputs are water if you have access and rights to it, fuel, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, cash to pay labor, machine hours (tractors and implements will break down in the middle of planting of harvesting and leave you scrambling) etc. You will need a large shop and lots of mechanical skills if you are doing mechanized farming. If you have no experience and are starting from scratch you need to understand that people with experience who inherit good sized plots of land along with a barn and machines are struggling to keep those farms, so your dreams of making a middle class salary as a "side hustle" are not in line with the realities of farming today. Many families have a spouse working off farm to support a money losing operation. Maybe you should try living and working on someone else's farm if you want to learn the business.
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Apr 4, 2017 08:44
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yeah small farms are always after cheap labor. tell them you want to learn and do it for free/super cheap.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:15
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Yah, I'm in the first stages of the process of building up a network of people out there who are into small farm, CSA and farmers market stuff, as well as put some feelers out to some AgSci people at a nearby university who study the economics of small farms and specialty crops. I have a couple of ins that should help - some family in the area who know quite a few people into it and a friend who is very well established state-wide who can help with the demand side, assuming I can actually eventually grow a saleable crop. Bonus of this is that in addition to meeting people to learn more and volunteer with and stuff, I'll also be expanding my social circle which is nice.
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Apr 4, 2017 14:16
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We're doing the same thing, but with the idea that one of us will eventually work the farm full time and I've spent the past year researching and planning just this sort of thing. I have a few specific pieces of advice: 1. Always treat it as a business and make sure you have capital upfront because farming is more expensive than you think to start. This is especially true if you are in a climate with a shorter growing season as you will need to construct hoop houses to be competitive that can cost 1k each if it's completely DIY and 5-8k if you buy a kit. Even seed, which seems inexpensive, adds up when you are buying enough for a farm. As others have said, you'll also need some sort of tractor or motorized tiller for that amount of land. All of this is before you ever sell anything. Make a P&L and cash flow statement before you start doing anything and be realistic about what things will cost. Making $60k a year from farming part time and just selling at farmers markets is not realistic. My husband and I know many small-scale farming families who have been in business from 2-10 years. None of them are making this. That's like 2,600 a week during farmer's market season. Our friends who have been farming for 10 years were really excited recently to be accepted to a major metro farmers market after being on the waiting list for 8 years. They expect they'll make 2k per week there. 2. Plan to spend just as much time marketing as you do farming. You'll need to market to local small groceries and restaurants as well as selling at at least 1 farmer's market and that is time consuming. If you're going for small scale farming you will also need to build a following on Social media and sell your brand. As a side note, most farmer's markets have very specific rules in regards to selling items not produced on the farm that is renting the booth space so you will likely not be able to piggy back on another farm. 3. Do not farm if you don't love it. It is a job that will require you to work 365 days a year and the pay isn't great. Even in the off season, there is always work to be done. 4. If you decide you really want to do this, hook up with your local farmer's union. They are a fantastic resource for information, networking and education. They have helped us get to the point we're at now and without them it would all just be a dream. Sorry if this sounds really negative, but it really is hard work and there are a lot of things involved that you wouldn't necessarily know about unless you're a farmer. E: Just went back and see you're in the Midwest too! Yeah, you'll need those hoop houses if you want to be able to sell for the whole season. Also, 90 minutes to Chicago is pretty far for a farmer's market imo and that is one that will probably have a long quaint list. You'll need at least a trailer to transport so make sure you factor in the cost of that and the cost of fuel. Plus, you'll need to be there by 6am to set up and you won't want to pick the veg you are taking to market until the day before so prepare for late Friday nights! You might actually be closer to Madison from where you are, but that's the market our friends just got into with the 8 year wait.... SquirrelFace fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 20:52
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First, let me say: thank you for this very helpful advice!SquirrelFace posted:We're doing the same thing, but with the idea that one of us will eventually work the farm full time and I've spent the past year researching and planning just this sort of thing. Yeah, right now we're both working really solid jobs, and can telecommute a few days a week so we could get some work done around here while we're also doing our day jobs, but the idea is that, if we can make a go of it, at least one of us will work on this full-time while the other works their day job. Regarding it being a business - I say I'd be happy with it being a hobby, but I still do intend to approach it as a business, which means tracking income and expenses (including our labor), large expenditures only when they are justified by the potential to generate revenue or reduce costs, etc. I kind of geek out on that stuff so that part will actually be fun. My approach with everything I read is to double the expenses and halve the income, at a minimum when making projections or estimates. Additionally, I'm not going to spend a penny unless I'm absolutely, 100% OK with that penny never coming back. Lastly, I'm going to take it slow - this first year is experimenting to see what grows well, how well I can handle the work, etc. I am fully prepared, if I don't enjoy it, to just continue with the current situation - I lease my land to a neighbor and get a check every year. My partner's approach to everything is to grill me mercilessly on every detail and hold my feet to the fire on any outlays - it's a good system.  Our plan isn't just to do farming and farmers markets to hit that goal, but farming and markets will be a big part of that. quote:2. Plan to spend just as much time marketing as you do farming. You'll need to market to local small groceries and restaurants as well as selling at at least 1 farmer's market and that is time consuming. If you're going for small scale farming you will also need to build a following on Social media and sell your brand. As a side note, most farmer's markets have very specific rules in regards to selling items not produced on the farm that is renting the booth space so you will likely not be able to piggy back on another farm. Yah, on the piggy-backing, what you say looks to be true - so I'll mostly just be helping out at first to learn the ropes, which I'm totally fine with. Marketing is something we have been spending time on, and yeah you are very, very right - it'll be absolutely necessary to have a strong social media presence as well as a LOT of networking with local businesses. What kind of stuff have you found helpful to do that? In addition to laying the groundwork by going out to meet people, we are thinking about (among a whole ton of other things) doing video of various builds, plantings, harvests; once/if we have successful harvests bringing small sample trays (and of course, larger quantities) as we visit restaurants and stores, getting involved in the chamber of commerce and other local orgs and similar. quote:3. Do not farm if you don't love it. It is a job that will require you to work 365 days a year and the pay isn't great. Even in the off season, there is always work to be done. Yep - this is why we will start (relatively) small: 100x100 feet for the first year, which is small enough to not be overwhelming but large enough to at least get some indication of the work involved. We have to see if the work agrees with us and if we have the temperament for it, and make decisions about continuing or stopping as we go along with it. I can't believe anyone would just jump in with both feet and try to do something larger scale - that seems pretty crazy. quote:4. If you decide you really want to do this, hook up with your local farmer's union. They are a fantastic resource for information, networking and education. They have helped us get to the point we're at now and without them it would all just be a dream. That's really good info - hadn't heard about a farmer's union, so yes, I will look into that! I'm also planning on going to some AgSci and gardening classes out at the local community college - both to learn more intensive techniques and make connections with people. quote:Sorry if this sounds really negative, but it really is hard work and there are a lot of things involved that you wouldn't necessarily know about unless you're a farmer. I don't think you were negative at all - it IS hard work, people DO spend years and years just getting to a point where they can make an OK living, and not everyone succeeds. Pointing that out doesn't make you negative, just realistic, IMO. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Thank you very much for the info, I'm now going to go down the rabbit hole of learning everything I can about DIY hoop houses! What part of the midwest are you guys in?
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Apr 11, 2017 14:04
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The place we are in the process of buying is about 30 minutes north of Green Bay so we're quite a bit north of you. As far as marketing, we haven't really started yet, but we have gotten some good advice from people we met through the farmer's union. Their advice is just to contact everyone you can and plan to bring by samples and really sell your story, not just the product. Also, look at ways to value add to products you already have. Our friends found a guy who pickles eggs. They give him duck and chicken eggs, he pickles them all and sends back half. They make more on these even with paying him half the stock than they do on fresh eggs. The biggest thing they have said financially is to be honest with yourself about what makes you a profit. You may like heritage breed chickens, but if they cost more in feed than you can get for the meat, you need to pick a different breed. Our individual plan is to hit the markets, get an active page going on Facebook and run a farm blog and Instagram with lots of pretty pictures of produce and baby animals. That's in addition to contacting the local restaurants/ specialty butcher shops/specialty groceries. Also planning to start an ask/tell thread when we close on the property, but that's more for my own enjoyment.... The Farmer's Union has really been the key to us getting this far. Everyone we have met through there is super welcoming and helpful and excited to talk about how to get started. The farming community is so fantastic and not at all competitive at least from what we've seen. Even friends we have with niche products love giving information on how to grow them and do not feel threatened at all by new producers.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:01
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We just officially closed on ours yesterday - we are just south of the Wisconsin border. When do you close? It's got to be pretty exciting!
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Apr 11, 2017 15:14
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It is! We actually just go an accepted offer a week ago so closing date depends on when our city house sells. Another thing to consider once you get a season or two under your belt is grants. I know of one in particular from the Frontera foundation for local food producers that serve the Chicago area. They are usually only a few grand, but it'll pay for a hoop house or small tractor.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:37
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Getting a subsidized tractor would absolutely be a benefit - I'm gonna do a deep dive on grants!
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Apr 12, 2017 18:46
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metztli posted:Getting a subsidized tractor would absolutely be a benefit - I'm gonna do a deep dive on grants! You could always make an electric tractor like that one goon.... (No clue how long of a charge it holds.)
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Apr 30, 2017 23:02
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